[News] Eisenberg: Dubious Progress Made On Domestic Violence In NFL

[TheConquerorWorm]

Exactly. The fact that people don't care about the facts and details, and they just lump Ray Rice in with people like Hardy, is sickening to me. The evidence suggests that Ray is a good person who made a horrible split second mistake.  Janay did/does not seem afraid of him at all, and it doesn't seem like he intended her to be. Hardy intentionally terrorized and assaulted someone. The NFL doesn't care because it's all the same as far as PR goes. The self righteous public doesn't care because it takes less effort to make yourself feel morally superior by criticizing someone else than it does to look into the facts, and all of these activists/rights groups don't care because they got to use Ray Rice as the perfect poster boy, thanks to the video. Don't get me wrong, it's a great cause that they're fighting for, but ignoring the facts and unfairly using/demonizing someone for any cause shows many people care about self righteous preaching more than they do about humanity.

 

Probably the best post I've read anywhere on this subject. 

[BmoreB]

Bottom line, if you can play at a high level, you'll always have a job in the NFL. That's the way it's been and that's the way it will always be. Is it fair ? Hell no it isn't, but guess what ? That's life.

[reed20fence]

Honestly i get the feeling most Ravens fans didnt want Rice released and still to this day would welcome him back.

And I'm one of them.

Be it next year or 40 years from now, this organization evetually will have to come to terms with the fact that we weren't our best selves during that whole episode.

Edited November 10, 2015 by reed20fence

[Ravenshine]

It's never good to punch your wife/girlfriend. There is never a time it's "ok" or to say in this case it made sense. She's half his weight and was no threat to him, he could have grabbed her and restrained her...instead he punched her out cold. So...it's not good. But compared to Hardy, it's not the same level of domestic violence...but still violence.

[Ravenshine]

Exactly. The fact that people don't care about the facts and details, and they just lump Ray Rice in with people like Hardy, is sickening to me. The evidence suggests that Ray is a good person who made a horrible split second mistake. Janay did/does not seem afraid of him at all, and it doesn't seem like he intended her to be. Hardy intentionally terrorized and assaulted someone. The NFL doesn't care because it's all the same as far as PR goes. The self righteous public doesn't care because it takes less effort to make yourself feel morally superior by criticizing someone else than it does to look into the facts, and all of these activists/rights groups don't care because they got to use Ray Rice as the perfect poster boy, thanks to the video. Don't get me wrong, it's a great cause that they're fighting for, but ignoring the facts and unfairly using/demonizing someone for any cause shows many people care about self righteous preaching more than they do about humanity.

I agree with you except...had Ray not been caught...would there have been a next time, and next time...etc.?

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ravenshine

[ellicottraven]

Video killed the Radio star!

[RavensBaltimore]

I agree with you except...had Ray not been caught...would there have been a next time, and next time...etc.?

There's no way to know for sure, so all we can do is look at the evidence. All the evidence we have about Rice's character shows that this was a single act, not a habit. That's why I believe he should have been penalized for what he did, but not defined by it. If any evidence came up that there was a "next time", that would be different, and in that situation, I would look at Rice similarly to how I look at Hardy, but that's not the case. When someone shows they are a good person who made a mistake, they deserve second chance. Even before Ray's incident, he did charity work with domestic violence shelters, ran an anti bullying campaign, along with countless other charity work, and he never had any history of character issues or trouble with the law. Hardy's assault was not a split second reaction, and besides the physical abuse, he threatened and terrorized her. He has had other character issues and other accusations of domestic violence as well, so for him, it wasn't just an isolated mistake. He is a danger to society and belongs in jail. 

[BallSoHard808]

It is the Cowboys they like to get people as bad as Hardy, Ray doesn't deserve this on the other hand he should get a second chance.

[riseNConquer81]

Exactly. The fact that people don't care about the facts and details, and they just lump Ray Rice in with people like Hardy, is sickening to me. The evidence suggests that Ray is a good person who made a horrible split second mistake.  Janay did/does not seem afraid of him at all, and it doesn't seem like he intended her to be. Hardy intentionally terrorized and assaulted someone. The NFL doesn't care because it's all the same as far as PR goes. The self righteous public doesn't care because it takes less effort to make yourself feel morally superior by criticizing someone else than it does to look into the facts, and all of these activists/rights groups don't care because they got to use Ray Rice as the perfect poster boy, thanks to the video. Don't get me wrong, it's a great cause that they're fighting for, but ignoring the facts and unfairly using/demonizing someone for any cause shows many people care about self righteous preaching more than they do about humanity.

that's it.

[riseNConquer81]

I agree with you except...had Ray not been caught...would there have been a next time, and next time...etc.?

the likelihood is slim to none.

It already took an incredible confluence of unfortunate circumstances (unwanted surprise trip, unwarranted jealousy, alcohol consumption, etc) to lead up to that incident of what is very uncharacteristic behavior from him.

Resist the urge to criminalize and let a guy who actually deserves the benefit of the doubt, have it.

[Ravenshine]

There's no way to know for sure, so all we can do is look at the evidence. All the evidence we have about Rice's character shows that this was a single act, not a habit. That's why I believe he should have been penalized for what he did, but not defined by it. If any evidence came up that there was a "next time", that would be different, and in that situation, I would look at Rice similarly to how I look at Hardy, but that's not the case. When someone shows they are a good person who made a mistake, they deserve second chance. Even before Ray's incident, he did charity work with domestic violence shelters, ran an anti bullying campaign, along with countless other charity work, and he never had any history of character issues or trouble with the law. Hardy's assault was not a split second reaction, and besides the physical abuse, he threatened and terrorized her. He has had other character issues and other accusations of domestic violence as well, so for him, it wasn't just an isolated mistake. He is a danger to society and belongs in jail.

I knew Ray Rice had an anti bullying campaign because the bad year he had it was mentioned on occasion he had been a target of abusive comments and that he stood against that. However, more the reason I lost a lot of respect for him when that incident was reported of his abuse. He essentially was a hypocrite then. But, I believe everyone deserves another chance and can change. He does appear to be doing that. But fact is, him getting caught hugely impacted/shaped his life. Does he need to be playing football? Some say he's not at that same level he was years ago. So... Not convinced his career was ruined by what happened. He may have already had his best days behind him as a running back. Edited November 11, 2015 by Ravenshine

[MikebRaven]

My daddy slapped me around pretty good. Thats just how we were raised. One thing I remember though is he taught me "you never hit a woman, period." we are their protectors. If you feel your lady is not treating you well, leave her, for an hour to cool off...or longer, or forever... but don't ever hit her. As I see it...all these guys getting caught just keep trying to make excuses for their own mistakes.

[Ravenshine]

the likelihood is slim to none.It already took an incredible confluence of unfortunate circumstances (unwanted surprise trip, unwarranted jealousy, alcohol consumption, etc) to lead up to that incident of what is very uncharacteristic behavior from him.Resist the urge to criminalize and let a guy who actually deserves the benefit of the doubt, have it.

How do you know it's uncharacteristic behavior of Ray Rice...are you with him in his private life to see what he does? He made a mistake and I don't criminalize anyone unless they commit a criminal act, he did it...yet you take issue with me over it...go figure.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Ravenshine

[gabrielgrissom]

What a message the NFL sent in this situation. Its guys like William Gay from the Steelers that will play these Dallas Cowboys next year and look across at Greg Hardy and say "Its guys like that that killed my mother".

I've lost any respect for the Cowboys and Jerry and Stephen Jones and their coach who held a press conference and told the media we knew everything that went on in the situation... And apparently did not. So this guy who drags a female by her hair and slams a female on tiles and guns and chokes her is a TRUE leader and someone that we want back on our team is terrible. And the way hardy has distanced himself from the situation and I'm pretty sure everyone on here would agree with me that he genuinely does not feel bad or sorry or quite frankly care about the situation. Then to make these comments on Brady and his wife and tirade on the sideline... Until he finds help and can truly regret and progressively try to better his outlook on the situation and his lifestyle I've had enough with him. He needs to be away from football the media and out of the public eye for a while.

[gabrielgrissom]

Simple fact: If Ray Rice had been a Cowboy, Patriot, or a Steeler, he would still be playing. Everybody can Poo-poo that all they want, but the evidence is clear especially after Hardy. There is no mixed message here, some teams are above the rules (and law, Brady in fed court proved that). GO RAVENS!

oh yea and you know what's the correlation in those teams... GDP I gaurentee these teams are money earners of the highest order in the NFL... Pats and cowboys have rich owners which have just happened to 'form a friendship' with the league. Referees in both the NFL and NBA organizations whether you agree or not favorite players to earn certain calls and favor teams that can sway calls and outcomes on games. Just look up the Tim Donaghue case. You know why? Fans like certain players just to throw out a name Antonio brown or Julio Jones or even dez Bryant going back to Sunday night against maxwell. So you know why these players get calls because they produce fans see this it grows the players skill fans start to become fans of that player or team and buy merchandise. MONEY DRIVES THE LEAGUE

[Zeus]

It's terrible. Rice has shown remorse and continues to plead for forgiveness unlike Hardy who hasn't shown any sign of remorse. If Rice was averaging more than 3 yards a carry in 2013 he would have been picked up by the Cowboys/Eagles/steelers today.

Any know what Rice is doing today?

[whobilly]

Jerry Jones daughter leads a program for the Cowboys that creates awareness for abused women. Did Jerry not get that memo? SAD.

[NNITRED]

Actually Ray Rice would have still been playing if Steve Bisciotti had not tampered with his four game suspension only to try to cover his butt by throwing Rice under the bus. He had to vilify Rice because it was Ozzie who came forward and said the Rice told him right away and never lied about what happened which directly counters what Steve Bisciotti said. It didn't add up.  Why lie to the owner but be nothing but forthcoming and honest with the GM? Steve got caught in a fib and under the bus Rice went. .

Edited November 11, 2015 by NNITRED

[NNITRED]

James Harrison was signed by the Steelers right in the midst of the Rice drama and NOBODY on any news network, NFL Network, or ESPN had a bad thing to say about it. There were no rants from Olberman, Beadles , or anyone else venting their cue card outrage. Dez beat his own mother and other women complete with video and 911 tapes. Who hates him in the NFL?

There's a sick correlation between performance and public forgiveness.

Edited November 11, 2015 by NNITRED

[ludy51]

It's never good to punch your wife/girlfriend. There is never a time it's "ok" or to say in this case it made sense. She's half his weight and was no threat to him, he could have grabbed her and restrained her...instead he punched her out cold. So...it's not good. But compared to Hardy, it's not the same level of domestic violence...but still violence.

Why not just tell the wife/girlfriend to not hit someone who is drunk and twice their size? Why do they get a pass for their DV crime?

[Ugly Ball]

@Ravenshine, You sound a little salty...!

I would think if Ray Rice were a regular abuser of his (now wife) we would have heard something about that over the time he was a Raven. What we did hear was Ray taking up for the underprivileged, spending time in the community and reaching out to children, talking about bullying.

Should he have hit her? No, not ever.

Should he have a chance to play again? Absolutely !

I would go as far as to say the Ravens should give him another chance.

After all they did say they would stand behind him and then went back on their word!

[Ravensfansince03]

The fans wanted them to bring Ray Rice back, and they didn't.

[Ravenshine]

@Ravenshine, You sound a little salty...!

I would think if Ray Rice were a regular abuser of his (now wife) we would have heard something about that over the time he was a Raven. What we did hear was Ray taking up for the underprivileged, spending time in the community and reaching out to children, talking about bullying.

Should he have hit her? No, not ever.

Should he have a chance to play again? Absolutely !

I would go as far as to say the Ravens should give him another chance.

After all they did say they would stand behind him and then went back on their word!

If you read all my posts you'll see I never say he should not play football. In fact, I think it'd be great if he got another opportunity at least, in any NFL franchise. Read my first post in this article (back on very first page)...you'll see I'm actually quite sympathetic of his journey. I'm just not going to condone excuses made (by others) to say he didn't do what he obviously did do.

[Ravenshine]

Why not just tell the wife/girlfriend to not hit someone who is drunk and twice their size? Why do they get a pass for their DV crime?

A pass? I'm sure she has huge regrets over this, after all, Ray lost his job. I doubt this was easy for her to go thru either. There is no pass...but...men are stronger and when they hit it's different than a woman doing it to a man...the latter of which is in great shape and a professional football player.

[riseNConquer81]

How do you know it's uncharacteristic behavior of Ray Rice...are you with him in his private life to see what he does? He made a mistake and I don't criminalize anyone unless they commit a criminal act, he did it...yet you take issue with me over it...go figure.

go figure what?

i dont stand for passive agression, say what you wanna say.

Ray Rice's life is very public, Janay Rice clearly has never come to harm in the past as a result of her relationship with her, and aside from all that....you shouldnt run around operating on the assumption that nobody you talk to has access to Rice. You have no idea who i know or hang out with. In case you havent noticed, that's Lardarius Webb in my avatar.

You're just a jaded person hell bent on nitpicking extreme outlier possibilities. pretty miserable way to live, but have fun with that i guess...

[Ravenshine]

So, if Rice can't play anymore (according to the NFL owners/coaches), have the NFL hire him as a DV spokesperson/director to help clean up the problem from within the NFL. He has the experience, and has lived through the consequences. He should be a mandatory speaker to the rookies entering the league each year.

I think that would be good. Something needs to change, Ray could be the one to do it.

[Ravenshine]

go figure what?i dont stand for passive agression, say what you wanna say.Ray Rice's life is very public, Janay Rice clearly has never come to harm in the past as a result of her relationship with her, and aside from all that....you shouldnt run around operating on the assumption that nobody you talk to has access to Rice. You have no idea who i know or hang out with. In case you havent noticed, that's Lardarius Webb in my avatar.You're just a jaded person hell bent on nitpicking extreme outlier possibilities. pretty miserable way to live, but have fun with that i guess...

Honestly I'm not what you say..but im talking about a very loved player so I expect the negative feedback. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. As am I.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Ravenshine

[riseNConquer81]

Honestly I'm not what you say..but im talking about a very loved player so I expect the negative feedback. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. As am I.

you can keep telling yourself that if you'd like, but the way you're beating a very dead horse says otherwise. Ray Rice very obviously isnt the wolf in sheep's clothing you keep trying to make him out to be, and anyone with eyes can see that.

 

[...]public doesn't care because it takes less effort to make yourself feel morally superior by criticizing someone else than it does to look into the facts [...]

relevant.

just wanted to tl;dr this for you, in case you missed it earlier.

browbeating people is easy.

Try humanism if you're ready for a new challenge.

Edited November 11, 2015 by riseNConquer81

[ellicottraven]

The difference between Hardy and Rice is very simple. Rice was a decent man when he made a big mistake that was caught on tape. Hardy is a thug who repeatedly hurt women but was never caught on tape. The evidence is in the post incident faces of Janay Rice and that girlfriend of Hardy's! Imagine if Hardy's repeated strikes was caught on camera like Rice's reflex stake was! I have long forgiven Rice and wish the Ravens had too!

[Dorota]

Thank you John Eisenberg for the article. I agree with you on what you say. It shows the system is faulty that Hardy is playing and that his suspension was insignificant. Also, that the league lets players on the field so soon if they think they can get away with it - i.e. no graphic evidence yet released. For better or worse, punishment should not be reevaluated as a consequence of public outcry, where NFL had the information for their decision available to them when they were making it. It shouldn't have been with Ray Rice and it shouldn't be with Greg Hardy. What it should do is make the league aware that domestic violence is horrible and should be punished harshly regardless of fans' feedback. This destroyed a career of RR, who is essentially a decent person that made a mistake, yet keeps on the field players that appear to be violent by nature and show no remorse.