City's Off-season Signings/Small mock/Top 5 Big Board

[JoeyFlex5]

You see what we're throwing out there at CB the past 2 years?  CB is absolutely not an overrated need.  Sure, other positions can help to improve the play at CB, but it's a black hole now and for the future.

FS and WR are blacker holes lol, that's what I'm getting at.

[BmoreBird22]

FS and WR are blacker holes lol, that's what I'm getting at.

This is a pretty damn deep safety class, a lot deeper than corner. 

[JoeyFlex5]

This is a pretty damn deep safety class, a lot deeper than corner.

as difficult as it has been to fin quality safety play the past few years, I don't really trust any of them outside of Ramsey. He's the only guy I can think of that can really turn it around for us. In the 2nd there appears to be studs at CB and OLB

[JustinB]

Mock drafts in November, oh I just want to cry

[rmw10]

FS and WR are blacker holes lol, that's what I'm getting at.

 

Disagree completely.  You have Jimmy at CB and then… a whole lotta nothing.  Even Jimmy is struggling this year.  I'm not pretending that WR and FS aren't issues, but CB is an absolutely huge need.  I mean, we're playing Shareece Wright right now.  That should say everything.

[Inqui]

Disagree completely.  You have Jimmy at CB and then… a whole lotta nothing.  Even Jimmy is struggling this year.  I'm not pretending that WR and FS aren't issues, but CB is an absolutely huge need.  I mean, we're playing Shareece Wright right now.  That should say everything.

It says we're in a bad spot Wright now.

[PurpleCity5]

I def. think CB is up there with OLB and WR in terms of need. We have Jimmy but Webb right now just isn't the same player he was since he signed that contract and I feel this could be his last year. There's too many question marks right now at CB. 

[The Oakland Cathedral]

It says we're in a bad spot Wright now.

That made me laugh.

[JoeyFlex5]

Disagree completely.  You have Jimmy at CB and then… a whole lotta nothing.  Even Jimmy is struggling this year.  I'm not pretending that WR and FS aren't issues, but CB is an absolutely huge need.  I mean, we're playing Shareece Wright right now.  That should say everything.

jimmy is coming off of a lisfranc, that explains that. 

 

webb has not been that bad for the most part and with good FS play they would both be looking good right now. 

[rmw10]

jimmy is coming off of a lisfranc, that explains that.

webb has not been that bad for the most part and with good FS play they would both be looking good right now.

The argument would have a little more merit if Webb could stay on the field and was even guaranteed to be here next year. CB is a huge need. FS can elevate their play a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that we've been cycling warm bodies in and out of the position the past 2 seasons.

[JoeyFlex5]

The argument would have a little more merit if Webb could stay on the field and was even guaranteed to be here next year. CB is a huge need. FS can elevate their play a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that we've been cycling warm bodies in and out of the position the past 2 seasons.

i can agree with that, and im not questioning that we could use a cb, but i think taking ramsey is a much better move for this team, i think it does far more to elevate us in the short and long term than to take a hargeaves. this isnt to downplay hargreaves at all, he looks like the next great corner in this league, but i think ramsey looks like the next great safety and by a greater margin. hes a true gamewrecker and i just think hes gonna be a bigger difference maker and can change the culture on this defense

[Maryland]

Honestly, I don't see the point in nitpicking over need. We need CB, FS, WR, LT, and pass rush all enough to justify addressing the position with an early pick. The degree of need between each position isn't that different; it all comes down to balancing BPA with those many needs. 

 

But the draft isn't until April 28, so argue away--we've got time 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Maryland

[Inqui]

Honestly, I don't see the point in nitpicking over need. We need CB, FS, WR, LT, and pass rush all enough to justify addressing the position with an early pick. The degree of need between each position isn't that high; it all comes down to balancing BPA with those many needs. 

 

But the draft isn't until April 28, so argue away--we've got time 

You're going to eat those words on April 21 when the same arguments have been carried out 50 times each.

[JoeyFlex5]

Honestly, I don't see the point in nitpicking over need. We need CB, FS, WR, LT, and pass rush all enough to justify addressing the position with an early pick. The degree of need between each position isn't that different; it all comes down to balancing BPA with those many needs. 

 

But the draft isn't until April 28, so argue away--we've got time 

i agree, but my thing is, when it comes to balancing need and BPA, in my eyes it comes down to ramsey vs bosa vs stanley/tunsil, and i believe hargreaves takes a backseat to those 4 prospects as i think he just slightly takes a backseat in both categories.

[GrimCoconut]

i agree, but my thing is, when it comes to balancing need and BPA, in my eyes it comes down to ramsey vs bosa vs stanley/tunsil, and i believe hargreaves takes a backseat to those 4 prospects as i think he just slightly takes a backseat in both categories.

I think you're wrong. Hargreaves is a very nice CB and the best I've seen in years coming out of college. If I had to compare him to anyone I would say he's the equivalent of Amari Cooper but at CB.

[52520Andrew]

I think you're wrong. Hargreaves is a very nice CB and the best I've seen in years coming out of college. If I had to compare him to anyone I would say he's the equivalent of Amari Cooper but at CB.

 

Yeah I like Hargreaves a lot as well, I think he is a safe pick with upside as a potential shutdown CB.

[Cillmatic]

Is it just me or does Hargreaves get manhandled a bit?

[GrimCoconut]

Is it just me or does Hargreaves get manhandled a bit?

It's you

[Cillmatic]

It's you

In that case I think he and Ramsey are about even right now.

[GrimCoconut]

In that case I think he and Ramsey are about even right now.

Yeah that's how I feel. I would be thrilled if we got either.

[BmoreBird22]

I'm taking Hargreaves, but I wouldn't cry over either

[52520Andrew]

I'm taking Hargreaves, but I wouldn't cry over either

Yeah I would be happy with either guy, I think they both would be really nice to have.

[PurpleCity5]

I'm taking Hargreaves, but I wouldn't cry over either

I think I might too, but I want Ramsey as well. He would solve so much problems for us. I'd hate to be Oz in that situation. Hargreaves is a truly talented CB. I don't know what I would do in that situation. 

[RaineV1]

Personally, I think having a great FS is better than having a great CB. So between the two, I'd take Ramsey.

[PurpleCity5]

Personally, I think having a great FS is better than having a great CB. So between the two, I'd take Ramsey.

I honestly think its the opposite. It goes both ways, great Safeties can make some CBs look great but I'd much rather have a combination of elite CBs-good safeties than elite safeties-good CBs. 

[RaineV1]

I honestly think its the opposite. It goes both ways, great Safeties can make some CBs look great but I'd much rather have a combination of elite CBs-good safeties than elite safeties-good CBs. 

I just think safeties tend to cause more turnovers than corners, especially when combined with a good passrush. Looking at the Ravens' history, none of our corners, not even Chris McAllistar, was able to create turnovers like Woodson and Reed. And looking around the league, currently 4 top 6 defensive players in interceptions are safeties (Mike Adams, Charles Woodson, Rashad Johson, and Marcus Williams).

Edited November 11, 2015 by RaineV1

[JoeyFlex5]

I think you're wrong. Hargreaves is a very nice CB and the best I've seen in years coming out of college. If I had to compare him to anyone I would say he's the equivalent of Amari Cooper but at CB.

i think hargreaves is excellent, if  i had to compare him, i dont care how cliche it may sound, but id compare him to revis, under 6 foot but plays huge, stellar technique and ball skills, stellar closing speed, stellar hips, the man looks nothing short of a perennial all pro cb, but i think ramsey looks like he is just a slight notch above, i have watched up plenty of both of them, and your arguments wont change my mind, and ive reiterated a million times that i like hargreaves more than any cb in recent memory, but i think jalen ramsey is a truly special player, i think hes got the same talent level but i think he plays with much more of an edge that this team could definitely use, he just feels more naturally like a raven, like the kind of guy that is just more likely to turn this defense around with his play and his attitude.

[JoeyFlex5]

I just think safeties tend to cause more turnovers than corners, especially when combined with a good passrush. Looking at the Ravens' history, none of our corners, not even Chris McAllistar, was able to create turnovers like Woodson and Reed. And looking around the league, currently 4 top 6 defensive players in interceptions are safeties (Mike Adams, Charles Woodson, Rashad Johson, and Marcus Williams).

i feel the same, good cb's + great safeties lead to scared qb's, scared receivers, alligator arms, fumbles, coverage sacks, and more importantly, ints. lets not forget the different looks and disguised coverages that a high IQ pair of safeties can offer.

 

great cb's + good safeties leads to coverage sacks and batted balls and the occasional int. 

 

great safeties just offer much more unexpected results to opponents, id rather have a qb refuse to throw a ball past 10 yards because of a lurking ballhawk, than to have a qb refuse to target 1 player because hes covered by a shutdown cb. why do you think the ravens were the only team who consistently made tom brady look average? even when ed reed was a straight up liability, he took away all but the first 10-15 yards of the field in tom bradys mind, and when brady decided to risk it and go deep, ed was there waiting. 

 

i think an elite pair of safeties and a serviceable pair of corners are more suited for todays game, with high volume passing attacks you want players that force turnovers.

[PurpleCity5]

I just think safeties tend to cause more turnovers than corners, especially when combined with a good passrush. Looking at the Ravens' history, none of our corners, not even Chris McAllistar, was able to create turnovers like Woodson and Reed. And looking around the league, currently 4 top 6 defensive players in interceptions are safeties (Mike Adams, Charles Woodson, Rashad Johson, and Marcus Williams).

I think that's more to do with our inability to find CBs that can create turnovers. You're certainly right in the sense that safeties create more turnovers but If you can play you're hand right you can find CBs who can create those turnovers. Its not impossible though CBs who tend to do that are targeted less often reducing their chances of getting a turnover. 

 

I think CBs who can cover for a good 3-4 seconds can take you far. Good safeties won't get beat that often, good CBs can get beat the entire game, that's why I prefer elite CBs. 

Edited November 11, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[JoeyFlex5]

I think that's more to do with our inability to find CBs that can create turnovers. You're certainly right in the sense that safeties create more turnovers but If you can play you're hand right you can find CBs who can create those turnovers. Its not impossible though CBs who tend to do that are targeted less often reducing their chances of getting a turnover. 

 

I think CBs who can cover for a good 3-4 seconds can take you far. Good safeties won't get beat that often, good CBs can get beat the entire game, that's why I prefer elite CBs. 

in this case, a good safety isnt getting beat, but thats all hes doing. a good cb who starts getting beat, will have a great safety licking his chops. let a qb get comfortable against a great safety and it results in turnovers.