joeyflex5's too early mock

[52520Andrew]

I didn't even name you. I just said a lot of people here act like if you don't share their opinion, your own opinion is invalid, and yes, it does happen a lot around here. I won't name people, but still, don't get so defensive.

To be fair, you don't see people go and complain about something people do after having an arguement in a thread and then have it be nothing to do with the person you were just arguing with. Usually doing something like that implies that the other person was doing it. I'd make a pretty similar leap and get defensive about it as well.

As for my thoughts on the subject, I could care less about position(besides the obvious ones because someone will bring them up otherwise), I just want a borderline hall of fame player. If we get one of the OTs, either DB, or Nkemdiche/Bosa or trade down for a ton and then get a good player, I'd be happy. I don't think any of these guys are perfect but they all have things they bring that can help us a lot.

Bosa is probably my best player as I think what he brings as a pass rusher would be huge for us. He would be our heir to Suggs. My biggest concern on him is maturity kinda coming from that 1 game suspension although I don't know much on it.

Don't really have a ranking after this as they are all pretty close and it is still really early but I'll go into detail on my summarized thoughts on each.

Nkemdiche has absolutely insane burst and should be a nightmare on the inside. I think people still don't realize how athletic he is. That Alabama game was a lot of fun to watch. My biggest concerns about him are anchoring defending the run, scheme fit, and that I feel like he gets banged up a bit in general.

Hargreaves is a guy I like a lot as well. I think he is a really smart corner that may not have elite physical tools but is a very safe pick to improve my secondary. Lack of size is my biggest concern although I am not as concerned about it as I used to be(more getting beat up, I don't need all my corners to be 6'2 or greater).

Stanley is absolutely amazing at pass protection and could protect Flacco the rest of his career which would be awesome. Should fit with our zone blocking scheme as well. My biggest issue for him is that I am not sold on him as a run blocker and you don't really see him getting much movement there. This may not matter to us as we run a zone scheme but even taking that into account, he almost looks like a different player trying to run block.

This brings us to Tunsil who has a nice amount of upside although he isn't as refined. I need to watch him more but I really was impressed by what he did against Garrett.

Ramsey is a guy who could be a lot of fun as our FS of the future and we really need someone on the back end to bring that swagger back to the defense. Experience at CB is always a plus as well considering who we have out there at times and Ramsey is a guy who can move around a good amount as well giving us some options to scheme different stuff. Maturity is probably my biggest concern with him as well, that and I don't know too much about his range yet.

[GrimCoconut]

There's so much to like between the top guys. Honestly I've said it many times that I don't care who, but give me one of Bosa, Hargreaves, Ramsey, Stanley, Tunsil. I want one of them, and I'd even throw Ogbah in there as well. I think I'd rather trade back if we have a top 5 pick if three of those four guys are still around and try to pick up an additional 2016 2nd round pick and a 2017 1st round pick.

[BmoreBird22]

There's so much to like between the top guys. Honestly I've said it many times that I don't care who, but give me one of Bosa, Hargreaves, Ramsey, Stanley, Tunsil. I want one of them, and I'd even throw Ogbah in there as well. I think I'd rather trade back if we have a top 5 pick if three of those four guys are still around and try to pick up an additional 2016 2nd round pick and a 2017 1st round pick.

Ogbah is a top 15 guy, but not someone I'd take top 10

[BmoreBird22]

To be fair, you don't see people go and complain about something people do after having an arguement in a thread and then have it be nothing to do with the person you were just arguing with. Usually doing something like that implies that the other person was doing it. I'd make a pretty similar leap and get defensive about it as well.

I was trying to say in a general sense and keep it in a general sense by saying "a lot of people", which I'm sure you could agree with. Some people here just are very set in their opinion and if you don't agree, you're wrong or have no knowledge. 

 

But as for the players...

I'd go Bosa first. I have heard nothing on the specifics of the suspension, but Urban Meyer said he knew it was coming for a while. That's a really odd thing to know about for so long, but not elaborate on. I don't know, he's just such a freak talent that I can't really see the Ravens passing on him if he's there. He just brings way too much value to be a jack of all trades type pass rusher in base/nickel sets. 

 

With Nkemdiche, I view his best fit as a three tech in a 4-3 defense, but teams are in the nickel like 60% of the time anyway, so a scheme fit wouldn't worry me. The one area where I would say I don't like it as much is the Ravens drafted Carl Davis and Timmy Jernigan, so you'd be stockpiling base set 5 techs and 3 techs, but you just don't pass on a talent like Nkemdiche unless you plan on trading back. Honestly, if Detroit gets the first overall pick, this is who I see it being. 

 

You say Hargreaves doesn't have the physical tools, so I assume you mean height and weight, but the athletic tools are there. He's certainly fast enough, has hips that just seem to be made of fluids, and his jumping damn near makes up for any height difference. Just so polished and smooth as a corner and everything I'd want in a rookie. I'm usually not high on rookie corners because they tend to be grabby and rely too much on athleticism, but Hargreaves just relies on straight technique. I like Kyle Fuller coming out because I thought he could be a very good day one starter, and I like Hargreaves more. 

 

I like Ramsey because I see someone who can blitz well and always has a nose for the football with the ability to play man, but his range just doesn't impress me as much as it probably should. I think he could play the centerfield role, but I don't think being the sideline to sideline guy all day will be his game. I think he'd benefit far more with Jimmy returning to form and being able to focus on the other half of the field. It's just hard to find someone with Ed Reed range.

[JoeyFlex5]

Which is why I used the phrase, "I believe." I was not telling you to believe anything I said or to change your own opinion and now you're just getting your feelings hurt. I didn't even name you. I just said a lot of people here act like if you don't share their opinion, your own opinion is invalid, and yes, it does happen a lot around here. I won't name people, but still, don't get so defensive. 

 

And to be fair to Eugene, he never missed more than one game in Jacksonville and the Ravens have put the third most players on IR in the past three years, if I'm remembering correctly. The time frame could be longer, but they're still top 3. This is also coming from the coaching staff that completely botched the Breshad Perriman case. I honestly want the training and medical staff evaluated because of all these injuries. 

 

He missed five games last year and four this year, but has graded out fairly well when he has been playing. It's not like he's Jared Gaither or anything. I'll be concerned if he suffers another injury this year, but at this point in time, he's pretty safe, especially if he actually does finish out. 

 

And to be honest, there isn't much to discuss. You asked why I would be disappointed with picking Stanley and when I told you why I personally would want the defensive players over Stanley, you basically said I don't have football IQ and then said there was no discussion over value, just to be clear.

 

And you should know damn well that I'm willing to have a discussion because we've had them in this very thread in the past week.

i just dont trust a LT who is so often injured, and i never insulted your football IQ, you just happened to name every player at a "sexy" position over a LT, you'd be hard pressed to find someone(who understands the value of a LT) who actually places hargreaves and ramsey above both stanley and tunsil, i can understand the argument for bosa and nkemdiche, but i just will never be convinced that ramsey and hargreaves are superior prospects, maybe im old school and i still think that LT is by far the most valuable asset for any team after a qb, and with our franchise qb getting older i think this is prime time to invest in protection and extend his career and make his older years more fruitful, i dont see any db topping that value unless the guy is a concrete lock to be the next ed reed or prime. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Trust me, you're not hurting my feelings. This has to be one of the most hypocritical things I have ever seen though. You claim we just want people to agree with us with no discussion yet you are the one who says things like "there shouldn't be a question about that" and "you have to take him unless you are already set at that position" while I say "I would argue" and BmoreBird says "I believe" and then states an opinion.

i wasnt referring to you, i was speaking directly on bmorebirds post. and do we really need the formalities to differentiate between tones here? we all know were speaking opinions, when i say things like that im saying i feel strongly about this opinion, jesus when did things get so tight around here that people cant strongly express an opinion? 

Edited November 22, 2015 by JoeyFlex5

[rmw10]

i just dont trust a LT who is so often injured, and i never insulted your football IQ, you just happened to name every player at a "sexy" position over a LT, you'd be hard pressed to find someone(who understands the value of a LT) who actually places hargreaves and ramsey above both stanley and tunsil, i can understand the argument for bosa and nkemdiche, but i just will never be convinced that ramsey and hargreaves are superior prospects, maybe im old school and i still think that LT is by far the most valuable asset for any team after a qb, and with our franchise qb getting older i think this is prime time to invest in protection and extend his career and make his older years more fruitful, i dont see any db topping that value unless the guy is a concrete lock to be the next ed reed or prime.

I understand the value of LT and I'd still rather have Ramsey or Hargreaves over one of them...

[Halbrich]

I've been watching nonstop highlight reels of Ezekiel Elliott ever since he announced he's going to the draft after the loss to MSU last night. I haven't liked a player in the draft this much since Jadeveon Clowney (Go [profanity deleted]!). Am I crazy or can someone back me up?

[BmoreBird22]

i just dont trust a LT who is so often injured, and i never insulted your football IQ, you just happened to name every player at a "sexy" position over a LT, you'd be hard pressed to find someone(who understands the value of a LT) who actually places hargreaves and ramsey above both stanley and tunsil, i can understand the argument for bosa and nkemdiche, but i just will never be convinced that ramsey and hargreaves are superior prospects, maybe im old school and i still think that LT is by far the most valuable asset for any team after a qb, and with our franchise qb getting older i think this is prime time to invest in protection and extend his career and make his older years more fruitful, i dont see any db topping that value unless the guy is a concrete lock to be the next ed reed or prime. 

Well, look no further than to Truth's post above for your argument. 

Trust me, I completely value a left tackle after seeing McKinnie and Oher... "protecting" the blindside. However, I still have quite a bit of faith in Eugene Monroe. He was graded out as the Ravens top player against the Jaguars and he's received fairly consistent and positive marks since his return from injury. 

 

Plus, the Ravens made it the divisional game and beat the Steelers with James Hurst. They won a Super Bowl with McKinnie. We could argue the biggest reason they lost the divisional game was because they didn't have Jimmy, who in that year was a lockdown corner. Having any semblance of a secondary that game would have insured a victory. 

 

With Stanley, I think he is the perfect ZBS player and I think he's about as sound as it comes for a LT prospect, similar to Jake Matthews coming out. However, I question his lower body build and his mean streak. He doesn't generate much push in the run game and doesn't play with a nasty streak whatsoever. For me, Tunsil may be a better fit for the team because he's a better run blocker and has that nasty streak. However, I'm not taking either because I view Hargreaves, Bosa, and Nkemdiche as BPA and I don't view LT as a huge need.

[BmoreBird22]

I've been watching nonstop highlight reels of Ezekiel Elliott ever since he announced he's going to the draft after the loss to MSU last night. I haven't liked a player in the draft this much since Jadeveon Clowney (Go [profanity deleted]!). Am I crazy or can someone back me up?

I think he's one of those players who has the ability to be a very good running back, but he won't be on the Ravens radar. He's a top 15 talent and will probably go in the 12-20 range.

[arnie_uk]

I think he's one of those players who has the ability to be a very good running back, but he won't be on the Ravens radar. He's a top 15 talent and will probably go in the 12-20 range.

if he slipped to our second I'd have a hard time passing up on him in fairness, and I hate drafting running backs high Edited November 22, 2015 by arnie_uk

[BmoreBird22]

if he slipped to our second I'd have a hard time passing up on him in fairness, and I hate drafting running backs high

If he slipped into the second, I'd be all over it. I wanted Todd Gurley more than anyone in the draft last year, so I'm cool with drafting running backs high. If he were there in the early second, that'd be way too much value.

[Halbrich]

If he slipped into the second, I'd be all over it. I wanted Todd Gurley more than anyone in the draft last year, so I'm cool with drafting running backs high. If he were there in the early second, that'd be way too much value.

Thoughts on trading our 2nd round pick and a comp pick to get back in the first round if he's dropping? I cannot begin to explain how much of an advantage I think we have against the rest of the league if we are able to trade comp picks.

[BmoreBird22]

Thoughts on trading our 2nd round pick and a comp pick to get back in the first round if he's dropping? I cannot begin to explain how much of an advantage I think we have against the rest of the league if we are able to trade comp picks.

Well, honestly, I would prefer targeting a falling Tyler Boyd to anyone else, but if all the good receivers are gone and Elliot is taking  a big slide, I'd definitely consider it since he's the running back the Ravens would probably love to build around.

[PurpleCity5]

Well, honestly, I would prefer targeting a falling Tyler Boyd to anyone else, but if all the good receivers are gone and Elliot is taking  a big slide, I'd definitely consider it since he's the running back the Ravens would probably love to build around.

I'd much rather prefer any of the WRs, Boyd, Thomas, Coleman, ect. over Elliot as well. But I also prefer the Edge Rushers such as Nassib, Calhoun, Lawson and especially Ogbah over him, depending on how much love Vonn Bell gets I'd also prefer him. I'd honestly trade back into the 2nd for him. 

[52520Andrew]

I was trying to say in a general sense and keep it in a general sense by saying "a lot of people", which I'm sure you could agree with. Some people here just are very set in their opinion and if you don't agree, you're wrong or have no knowledge.

But as for the players...

I'd go Bosa first. I have heard nothing on the specifics of the suspension, but Urban Meyer said he knew it was coming for a while. That's a really odd thing to know about for so long, but not elaborate on. I don't know, he's just such a freak talent that I can't really see the Ravens passing on him if he's there. He just brings way too much value to be a jack of all trades type pass rusher in base/nickel sets.

With Nkemdiche, I view his best fit as a three tech in a 4-3 defense, but teams are in the nickel like 60% of the time anyway, so a scheme fit wouldn't worry me. The one area where I would say I don't like it as much is the Ravens drafted Carl Davis and Timmy Jernigan, so you'd be stockpiling base set 5 techs and 3 techs, but you just don't pass on a talent like Nkemdiche unless you plan on trading back. Honestly, if Detroit gets the first overall pick, this is who I see it being.

You say Hargreaves doesn't have the physical tools, so I assume you mean height and weight, but the athletic tools are there. He's certainly fast enough, has hips that just seem to be made of fluids, and his jumping damn near makes up for any height difference. Just so polished and smooth as a corner and everything I'd want in a rookie. I'm usually not high on rookie corners because they tend to be grabby and rely too much on athleticism, but Hargreaves just relies on straight technique. I like Kyle Fuller coming out because I thought he could be a very good day one starter, and I like Hargreaves more.

I like Ramsey because I see someone who can blitz well and always has a nose for the football with the ability to play man, but his range just doesn't impress me as much as it probably should. I think he could play the centerfield role, but I don't think being the sideline to sideline guy all day will be his game. I think he'd benefit far more with Jimmy returning to form and being able to focus on the other half of the field. It's just hard to find someone with Ed Reed range.

But people don't just randomly complain like that without implying heavily that the other person did it. At least make note that it isn't the other person.

As for Hargreaves, I said in my post that I don't need all my corners to be 6'2 and am more concerned about potential injuries at his size than anything else although he has filled out a bit over the past year so I am not as concerned as before.

Yeah I think Ramsey could be much better closer to the line, kinda like Polomalu where you just move him all over the place. The issue with this for us is that we already have a good SS in Hill.

Agree on your thoughts with Bosa and Nkemdiche

[usmccharles]

Ogbah is a top 15 guy, but not someone I'd take top 10

think he can fall to the second? He's the one guy I eat this draft as long as the value is right.

[BmoreBird22]

I'd much rather prefer any of the WRs, Boyd, Thomas, Coleman, ect. over Elliot as well. But I also prefer the Edge Rushers such as Nassib, Calhoun, Lawson and especially Ogbah over him, depending on how much love Vonn Bell gets I'd also prefer him. I'd honestly trade back into the 2nd for him. 

With regards to Ogbah, he's going top 15. I see Thomas and Coleman as going in the late first. Nassib is apparently not even in Matt Miller's top 90 and I actually really respect his draft work. 

 

But Calhoun would be a really good target in the early second.

[BmoreBird22]

think he can fall to the second? He's the one guy I eat this draft as long as the value is right.

Not a chance he'll slip past mid first.

[BmoreBird22]

But people don't just randomly complain like that without implying heavily that the other person did it. At least make note that it isn't the other person.

As for Hargreaves, I said in my post that I don't need all my corners to be 6'2 and am more concerned about potential injuries at his size than anything else although he has filled out a bit over the past year so I am not as concerned as before.

Yeah I think Ramsey could be much better closer to the line, kinda like Polomalu where you just move him all over the place. The issue with this for us is that we already have a good SS in Hill.

Agree on your thoughts with Bosa and Nkemdiche

I was just replying to RaveFan52's post. I don't know if he was singling someone out, but mine was just general to him. 

 

I just... with Hargreaves, I think he could stand to be a more wrap up style tackler, but I don't see his play as reckless to the point that it will injure him much.

 

I like Ramsey, I'm just not in love with him.

[52520Andrew]

I was just replying to RaveFan52's post. I don't know if he was singling someone out, but mine was just general to him.

I just... with Hargreaves, I think he could stand to be a more wrap up style tackler, but I don't see his play as reckless to the point that it will injure him much.

I like Ramsey, I'm just not in love with him.

Still a weird sequence of events, I'd probably get defensive about it as well.

We have enough injury prone CBs though and I am just scared that Hargreaves could get beat up a bit at the next level. I'd still love to have him but it is one of those things I just don't feel good about

[PurpleCity5]

With regards to Ogbah, he's going top 15. I see Thomas and Coleman as going in the late first. Nassib is apparently not even in Matt Miller's top 90 and I actually really respect his draft work. 

 

But Calhoun would be a really good target in the early second.

I don't think this is a strong WR class, I really think that teams won't see some of these guys as elite talent at all. 2013 Draft class didn't have a strong WR class, outside of DeAndre Hopkins(Stud). Tavon Austin was seen as an "Offensive Weapon" and potential game changers, but guys like Austin don't come around often, there's no Austin in this draft. Only 3 WRs went into the 1st. 

 

I honestly see three WRs going into the 1st in this draft as well, I think Treadwell is a lock, I think Docston is going to the first as well, while Coleman and Thomas will be battling for the 3rd spot. 

 

Ogbah is a bit unpredictable honestly. I've seen him projected as early as the 1st, all the way down to the 3rd. I think teams will question his fit and see him more as a 4-3 DE given that he's much better rushing the passer with his hands on the ground.

Edited November 22, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[Halbrich]

Has everyone forgotten our track record when it comes to drafting WR's? Let's be honest, how confident are you in the Ravens to be spot on in drafting a WR, regardless of what round it is? I feel that the Ravens would be much better suited signing an established WR in free agency, something with which we've had success doing in the past, rather than using a high draft pick on one and attempt to develop him. Unfortunately, that's just not the Ravens strength. Besides, the system the Ravens run does not necessarily favor WR's to put up huge numbers over the course of a regular season. So why draft a WR who will never be what every fan dreams in one being, especially after we got our guy in last years draft? I just think there is better value in using those draft picks to invest elsewhere. I do believe that Breshad Perriman will be the truth and excel in our system similar to, if not better than, Torrey Smith. 

 

The Raven's philosophy involves playing good defense, having a strong running game, and utilizing the play action pass. I have a lot of confidence in our very young and talented TE group to move the chains on third downs. I also have a lot of confidence in Breshad Perriman being a legitimate deep threat to stretch the field. My only concern is that we don't have an established possession WR, which is why I'd rather sign one in free agency than draft one. So, this brings me back to my point on Ezekiel Elliot. Now that guy would really excel in our system. If he falls to the end of the first round, I'd personally love to see the Ravens pull the trigger on him. As for our 1st round pick, I have more confidence in us drafting an edge rusher or O-lineman. We always nail drafting those positions. But hey, at the end of the day, we all know the Ravens like to draft the BPA, which is what I speculate we will do. Who knows who that will be by the time the draft comes around? 

 

We really need Flacco to restructure his deal so we can let the Wizard of Oz do his magic. As always, in Oz we Trust. Just one other thought to get everyone riled up because of this post, I am a little suspect on Marc Trestman as our Offensive Coordinator. I don't know if that's really fair to say or not because he has not had a full season yet, but I question his play calling sometimes. I think that when Kubiak left last year and took those other offensive coaches with him, it really hurt us. We are still trying to rebound from that.

[GrimCoconut]

Ogbah is a top 15 guy, but not someone I'd take top 10

Yeah I agree. That's why I wouldn't mind if we traded back if it meant a nice haul and we could get Ogbah; although I admittedly really want Hargreaves and Ramsey and wouldn't complain with Bosa, Stanley or Tunsil. Edited November 22, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[JoeyFlex5]

Has everyone forgotten our track record when it comes to drafting WR's? Let's be honest, how confident are you in the Ravens to be spot on in drafting a WR, regardless of what round it is? 

you still need WRs to succeed in this league, and theres only so much you can do in free agency. 

 

tyler boyd is not a breshad perriman or travis taylor, hes a day 1 starter, a refined route runner, great hands, pro ready right out of college, he is not the high risk prospect that the ravens tend to select.

[PurpleCity5]

you still need WRs to succeed in this league, and theres only so much you can do in free agency. 

 

tyler boyd is not a breshad perriman or travis taylor, hes a day 1 starter, a refined route runner, great hands, pro ready right out of college, he is not the high risk prospect that the ravens tend to select.

For the love of god, if we pass on WRs because we're concerned about our ability to draft good WRs or bad luck then I'll call for a resignation. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[JoeyFlex5]

sooooo, on the subject of drafting a LT high.... 

 

lmao

[GrimCoconut]

sooooo, on the subject of drafting a LT high.... 

 

lmao

It's not polite to gloat. 

 

I still maintain my opinion that I wouldn't mind us taking a LT but I'd rather go elsewhere. That said, I feel like Tunsil will be the pick. That's a gut feeling for me. I'm not sure I like it. I feel like these two LTs have a possibility to bust in all honesty. Something about them really concerns me and I can't quite gauge what. I like Tunsil's power and he reminds me somewhat of Tyron Smith, but I am concerned about his ability at the next level as a LT. I like Stanley's technique, but he isn't very powerful and that lower body could cause him to get beat in the NFL. 

 

On the contrary, I think Hargreaves is a better CB than they are LT. The only difference is they are both at a position traditionally considered more important than CB. If I chose between the two, after further review, my pick would be Tunsil for LT. 

[JoeyFlex5]

It's not polite to gloat. 

 

I still maintain my opinion that I wouldn't mind us taking a LT but I'd rather go elsewhere. That said, I feel like Tunsil will be the pick. That's a gut feeling for me. I'm not sure I like it. I feel like these two LTs have a possibility to bust in all honesty. Something about them really concerns me and I can't quite gauge what. I like Tunsil's power and he reminds me somewhat of Tyron Smith, but I am concerned about his ability at the next level as a LT. I like Stanley's technique, but he isn't very powerful and that lower body could cause him to get beat in the NFL. 

 

On the contrary, I think Hargreaves is a better CB than they are LT. The only difference is they are both at a position traditionally considered more important than CB. If I chose between the two, after further review, my pick would be Tunsil for LT. 

im not gloating i just find it funny that im backed against a wall defending my opinion here, and monroe gets hurt again and a lack of pass protection has ended our qb's season, i mean that part isnt really funny, just the irony is all.

[GrimCoconut]

im not gloating i just find it funny that im backed against a wall defending my opinion here, and monroe gets hurt again and a lack of pass protection has ended our qb's season, i mean that part isnt really funny, just the irony is all.

Yeah, but it's gloating. That's how I see it, even if it's not intentional on your part. I'm only telling you my perspective, and if I think that, then someone else likely does as well. 

 

I don't disagree though. I'm pretty neutral here. I just want an impact player. If we feel Tunsil or Stanley can be another Tyron Smith, I'd take him all day.