The NBA Thread

[52520Andrew]

10 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I somewhat get what your saying, but why should a player stay loyal to a team when the team has no reason to stay loyal to them, we are seeing that with the Heat and Wade right now.  Its just business, KD gave 8 years to OKC, he has every right to pick where he wants to play.  If he feels he has capped out in OKC, I completely understand him leaving and wanting to try something new, it may be a cop out, but he is the one who has to live with the decision. 

That being said, I would have stayed in OKC and gave it another shot.  With this happening it makes me think Westbrook told him hes leaving. 

All I am hearing is him getting more rings but he was in a fine position to win it all next year. I mean unless he doesn't think he can win in OKC, I don't see it that way, he just wants as easy a path to get a ring as possible and he crossed over to a rival to do it. It is a total copout IMO. Maybe I don't know FA in the NBA as well as others but that just doesn't seem right. Figured he would stay loyal to the teammates he battled beside for 8 years.

59 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

Ray had a ring already and I'm pretty sure he threatened to leave.  I also remember him saying something about the Cowboys.

He wasn't going to the Cowboys to win a ring though. That was a dream of hos to play for Dallas and probably to get more money out of the Ravens. I am saying it more as that is what Durant leaving would be like.

[BmoreBird22]

13 hours ago, usmccharles said:

I somewhat get what your saying, but why should a player stay loyal to a team when the team has no reason to stay loyal to them, we are seeing that with the Heat and Wade right now.  Its just business, KD gave 8 years to OKC, he has every right to pick where he wants to play.  If he feels he has capped out in OKC, I completely understand him leaving and wanting to try something new, it may be a cop out, but he is the one who has to live with the decision. 

That being said, I would have stayed in OKC and gave it another shot.  With this happening it makes me think Westbrook told him hes leaving. 

Interesting of you to say this because I was reading a Bleacher Report article in which the author had spoken to high ranking players or execs in the NBA about why the contracts were so much higher in basketball despite sports like hockey or football being more physically taxing. 

The answer was that the NBA ownership values their players more and sees them more as partners, as opposed to the NFL that sees them as property (author really meant property). That's not to say that the ownership and coaches don't know they're above the players, but they do realize that a good relationship is a lot better for the chemistry of the team and they treat the players that way.

Also, how were the Thunder not staying loyal to him? I don't follow basketball extremely closely, but I don't recall them ever bad mouthing him, ever saying they didn't want him, etc. The town of OKC is actually pretty shocked and upset he left. The city loved him and the team liked him enough to give him a five year extension in 2010. I'm really confused on how they aren't loyal to him.

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

All I am hearing is him getting more rings but he was in a fine position to win it all next year. I mean unless he doesn't think he can win in OKC, I don't see it that way, he just wants as easy a path to get a ring as possible and he crossed over to a rival to do it. It is a total copout IMO. Maybe I don't know FA in the NBA as well as others but that just doesn't seem right. Figured he would stay loyal to the teammates he battled beside for 8 years.

This is the way I see it. If he were on the 76ers, I'd totally understand, but the Thunder were up 3-1 at one point on the eventual Western Conference champs and had been in the finals like three years ago. Clearly they were still in a position to contend and Durant has never had issues with being a really great player in OKC and as Westbrook continued to emerge as a star point guard, there was no reason to believe they couldn't win.

It's not gonna feel like he earned it and, like you said, he went to a rival to do it. That's just dirty.

[Inqui]

Looks like Dwyane Wade to the Bulls for two years and $47.5 million. Classic case of what happens when a franchise tries to lowball its star too much (just while we're talking about loyalty). Outside the Cavs, the spots 2-14 are really up for grabs. Anyone who says the east is weak or uncompetitive these days hasn't been paying attention.

[Inqui]

On 7/5/2016 at 1:32 PM, redrum52 said:

Truth is, it's always been like this.  Once in a while a team would rise to the occasion, but the good teams usually stopped winning because they got old or were injured when abother team peaked.  Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Lakers again, Celtics and Heat are all good examples.  People will say this is different from what LeBron did, but is it really?  Yes, the Heat didn't break a record, but that's because those players all colluded to be FA at the same time.  Hell, look at the Boston big 3, but now everyone's salty cause KD is doing it?  Kick rocks.  KD wasn't born in OKC and anointed the "Chosen One," or the King.  The Showtime Lakers were STACKED, were people complaining then?  If he stayed with the Thunder and never won, all you'd hear about is how he never got a ring.  If he went to another team, then it would be, why didn't he go where he had the best chance to win.  Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.  I'm a Knicks fans, but I'm going to have a blast watching GS play next year.  Also, Bron left 2 teams.  He bailed on the Heat and I don't care what people say.   He went to a team with 4 #1 picks and traded for another superstar, with one already on his team.  He went under the guise of returning home, but he knew they were younger and better in Cleveland.

 

Also, if Kobe didn't run Shaq off, the Lakers reign would've been a lot worse.

I agree with pretty much all of this. It's a little depressing every time it happens because it's a reminder of how you have to build talent to get talent (and the talent you build can leave on a dime), but this isn't the first super-team and it won't be the last. Like I said at the top of the page, it'll be interesting to watch but I could see it getting pretty boring if they dominate the league for a while. But at least it's the Warriors dominating the landscape these days and not the usual Lakers/Celtics/Heat-to-an-extent suspects.

With that said, after letting the dust settle after a while it may not be a given that the Warriors run roughshod over the competition. What made them so much better than the other teams was their depth, and they've had to ship a fair bit of that off to make room for Durant. And that Lakers team of Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton got stopped by the humble Pistons in 2003-04, so it's happened before.

[52520Andrew]

17 minutes ago, Inqui said:

I agree with pretty much all of this. It's a little depressing every time it happens because it's a reminder of how you have to build talent to get talent (and the talent you build can leave on a dime), but this isn't the first super-team and it won't be the last. Like I said at the top of the page, it'll be interesting to watch but I could see it getting pretty boring if they dominate the league for a while. But at least it's the Warriors dominating the landscape these days and not the usual Lakers/Celtics/Heat-to-an-extent suspects.

With that said, after letting the dust settle after a while it may not be a given that the Warriors run roughshod over the competition. What made them so much better than the other teams was their depth, and they've had to ship a fair bit of that off to make room for Durant. And that Lakers team of Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton got stopped by the humble Pistons in 2003-04, so it's happened before.

I think outside of the whole "decision" stuff, what LeBron did was not nearly as bad as this. I actually do think though that the Thunder would have been the team to win it in the west this year had Durant stayed. Was really looking forward to OKC vs. GSW this year. That is what does it for me, Durant isn't leaving a bad situation. Malone and Stockton didn't win a title sure but they had to face the Bulls at their peak. Golden State is good but they aren't that good as proved by the postseason. Durant and Westbrook just had to stick with it and they would get there. You had Adams really frustrating Golden State at Center, you just traded for Oladipo, I mean this isn't the Cavs when LeBron was literally all they had. OKC will still make the playoffs and may even be the second best team in the west although the Spurs may have something to say about that. 

As for how the Warriors will do, I agree that they have a hole in the depth department and in particular at center. They have great shooters but not sure how they will be on the other side of the floor. Plus we don't know how Durant will fit and while I don't think Durant is the kinda player where it happens, the chemistry could get messed up. Should also mention the 2011 Dallas Mavericks so them losing wouldn't be a huge surprise but they are the favorites for it all right now and it isn't close.

But yeah this is a major reason I can't get into the NBA, there just isn't much parity and outside a couple games with the top teams, I just don't find it interesting. And this is just another nail in the coffin as what looked like a great matchup on paper with the Thunder and Warriors doesn't look nearly as good now. The East is finally getting better but outside the Cavs, hard to think anyone out there has a good chance at beating the Warriors in a 7 game series. 

[rmw10]

4 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

I think outside of the whole "decision" stuff, what LeBron did was not nearly as bad as this. I actually do think though that the Thunder would have been the team to win it in the west this year had Durant stayed. Was really looking forward to OKC vs. GSW this year. That is what does it for me, Durant isn't leaving a bad situation. Malone and Stockton didn't win a title sure but they had to face the Bulls at their peak. Golden State is good but they aren't that good as proved by the postseason. Durant and Westbrook just had to stick with it and they would get there. You had Adams really frustrating Golden State at Center, you just traded for Oladipo, I mean this isn't the Cavs when LeBron was literally all they had. OKC will still make the playoffs and may even be the second best team in the west although the Spurs may have something to say about that. 

As for how the Warriors will do, I agree that they have a hole in the depth department and in particular at center. They have great shooters but not sure how they will be on the other side of the floor. Plus we don't know how Durant will fit and while I don't think Durant is the kinda player where it happens, the chemistry could get messed up. Should also mention the 2011 Dallas Mavericks so them losing wouldn't be a huge surprise but they are the favorites for it all right now and it isn't close.

But yeah this is a major reason I can't get into the NBA, there just isn't much parity and outside a couple games with the top teams, I just don't find it interesting. And this is just another nail in the coffin as what looked like a great matchup on paper with the Thunder and Warriors doesn't look nearly as good now. The East is finally getting better but outside the Cavs, hard to think anyone out there has a good chance at beating the Warriors in a 7 game series. 

That's also why I can't get into it.  I pretty much watch the playoffs and that's about it.  I've tried to turn on games during the regular season, and I've seen teams go as far as benching all of their stars to give them rest, and still run over the opposing team with backups.  I've never really found the interest.

[ravefan52]

Durant took the easy, weak way out, but will get a ring, and the NBA is a lot less fun to watch. The league needs to make permanent changes to prevent multiple superstars from teaming up imo. It takes away from real team building and has turned the league into the NCAA, where recruiting guys to come to your team has become the most important factor in winning. It already only had a handful of teams that could realistically win it all and now that number is even less. Also when players are constantly changing teams, in a 5 man game, fanfare for teams just doesn't mean much anymore. I love basketball, but all these things make it harder to watch for me.

Edited July 8, 2016 by ravefan52

[redrum52]

Everyone says it's going to be boring, but I will have a good time watching.  The regular season stinks in the NBA.  I feel it's been this way for a while too.  Most fans don't really pay attention until the playoffs anyway, when I guarantee people will be watching, even if they think GS is just gonna show up and win the trophy.  With a lot of teams improving as well, the match ups with even lower teams will be more interesting.  Every team is going to want to test themselves against the Warriors.

[usmccharles]

4 hours ago, redrum52 said:

Everyone says it's going to be boring, but I will have a good time watching.  The regular season stinks in the NBA.  I feel it's been this way for a while too.  Most fans don't really pay attention until the playoffs anyway, when I guarantee people will be watching, even if they think GS is just gonna show up and win the trophy.  With a lot of teams improving as well, the match ups with even lower teams will be more interesting.  Every team is going to want to test themselves against the Warriors.

I agree somewhat.  I never watch regular season NBA games, just too many of them.  But with Durant joining GS it takes away one of the main contenders in the entire NBA, hell, I was picking OKC to go to the finals next year but obviously scratch that.  How many real contenders are there now in the NBA?  The East has been weak for quite awhile, the fun was watching the West battle, with Spurs, OKC, Clippers, and GS....Now, its hard to make a case for any other team other than the top two. 

[redrum52]

21 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I agree somewhat.  I never watch regular season NBA games, just too many of them.  But with Durant joining GS it takes away one of the main contenders in the entire NBA, hell, I was picking OKC to go to the finals next year but obviously scratch that.  How many real contenders are there now in the NBA?  The East has been weak for quite awhile, the fun was watching the West battle, with Spurs, OKC, Clippers, and GS....Now, its hard to make a case for any other team other than the top two. 

I said last year there were 3 contenders.  Spur, GS and Cavs.  I didn't consider the Thunder real contenders because of their inconsistencies.  Don't believe the NBA hype.  It's been like this for a while.  Max, there are maybe 5 and in the peak 6 true contenders in an NBA season.  Even then, usually the bottom of the 6 most likely need to play damn near perfect ball to knock off the top dogs, which RARELY HAPPENS.  Too many games and u like football, only people.  The better team will almost always win unless injury or refs (02 Western Finals).  

 

Not just because of this year, but something I've thought for years.  I'm about to get very off topic, but would you all still watch sports if you found out they were fixed?  

[usmccharles]

17 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

I said last year there were 3 contenders.  Spur, GS and Cavs.  I didn't consider the Thunder real contenders because of their inconsistencies.  Don't believe the NBA hype.  It's been like this for a while.  Max, there are maybe 5 and in the peak 6 true contenders in an NBA season.  Even then, usually the bottom of the 6 most likely need to play damn near perfect ball to knock off the top dogs, which RARELY HAPPENS.  Too many games and u like football, only people.  The better team will almost always win unless injury or refs (02 Western Finals).  

 

Not just because of this year, but something I've thought for years.  I'm about to get very off topic, but would you all still watch sports if you found out they were fixed?  

Depends what you mean by fixed.  If every outcome was fixed, basically like WWE, then yea, I wouldn't watch.  But here and there if some guys are fixed....we wouldn't know which games were fixed so I would still watch.  Just like now, im sure some games have been manipulated

[redrum52]

4 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Depends what you mean by fixed.  If every outcome was fixed, basically like WWE, then yea, I wouldn't watch.  But here and there if some guys are fixed....we wouldn't know which games were fixed so I would still watch.  Just like now, im sure some games have been manipulated

That's probably a better word.  If anyone has a ticket, do me a favor and tell me what writing you find on it.  I feel most sports are manipulated and that's part of the reason for more judgement calls being put in the refs hands.

 

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?220031-Is-the-NFL-an-Entertainment-Business-like-the-WWE

 

I had read something similar to this and will try to find that link as well.  

Edited July 8, 2016 by redrum52
Added link

[usmccharles]

20 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

That's probably a better word.  If anyone has a ticket, do me a favor and tell me what writing you find on it.  I feel most sports are manipulated and that's part of the reason for more judgement calls being put in the refs hands.

 

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?220031-Is-the-NFL-an-Entertainment-Business-like-the-WWE

 

I had read something similar to this and will try to find that link as well.  

Damn, cant read that while at work

[redrum52]

4 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Damn, cant read that while at work

If you get a chance later, I recommend it.  Long, but very interesting.

[rmw10]

31 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

That's probably a better word.  If anyone has a ticket, do me a favor and tell me what writing you find on it.  I feel most sports are manipulated and that's part of the reason for more judgement calls being put in the refs hands.

 

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?220031-Is-the-NFL-an-Entertainment-Business-like-the-WWE

 

I had read something similar to this and will try to find that link as well.  

Definitely interesting, and I'll make it only one post as not to detract too far from the thread.

I think the biggest missing key is that you're essentially asking all of these guys to act once they reach the professional level, assuming that pre-determined outcomes are a thing.  While the arguments make sense for the NFL (or other professional leagues), the same can't apply to the college level.  These kids aren't being paid and are working their hardest to get drafted as high as they can to make the most money.  These kids aren't making dumb mistakes to throw a game for the sake of the NCAA.  They aren't being paid, so what's in it for them?

Now, when they do reach the professional level, we're just supposed to assume that all of these new faces are just willing to act and support the league's cause - without uttering a word?

It was an interesting read for sure, but there's a lot more to it than what was presented.  All of these leagues are certainly for entertainment, and I don't doubt that some games over the years have been fixed.  I would not compare it at all to the WWE, though.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

BREAKING NEWS: Kevin durant decides to transfer from Ritz Carlton in Maui to Four Seasons Maui because he thinks that with curry there he will have a better vacation

 

why? Because Curry is at my hotel. If I have a photo opp I will post it

[usmccharles]

And the hate continues lol

[rmw10]

3 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

BREAKING NEWS: Kevin durant decides to transfer from Ritz Carlton in Maui to Four Seasons Maui because he thinks that with curry there he will have a better vacation

 

why? Because Curry is at my hotel. If I have a photo opp I will post it

I'm not sure there has ever been a more appropriate time to use "pics or it didn't happen"

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

9 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'm not sure there has ever been a more appropriate time to use "pics or it didn't happen"

The man has security around him at the kiddy pool for Riley. If I had the opportunity I totally would. He supposedly is here another few days. 

 

 

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

The man has security around him at the kiddy pool for Riley. If I had the opportunity I totally would. He supposedly is here another few days. 

This kinda things rubs me the wrong way in a major way. He needs security surrounding the kiddy pool for his daughter? Seriously? I understand he's a big athlete, but that doesn't make him above everyone else or so much better that he needs to be shielded like that. C'mon, man.

[redrum52]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

This kinda things rubs me the wrong way in a major way. He needs security surrounding the kiddy pool for his daughter? Seriously? I understand he's a big athlete, but that doesn't make him above everyone else or so much better that he needs to be shielded like that. C'mon, man.

We live in a sick world and he probably just wants him and his family left alone.  I think it's understandable. 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, redrum52 said:

We live in a sick world and he probably just wants him and his family left alone.  I think it's understandable. 

I think most people understand that athletes are people too and want their alone time. My grandpa said he's seen plenty of football players out with their wives at restaurants (he lives in Ocean City) just enjoying a little vacation time and no one bothers them because they're with family just enjoying themselves.

Seems like a major ego move on his part.

[redrum52]

30 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think most people understand that athletes are people too and want their alone time. My grandpa said he's seen plenty of football players out with their wives at restaurants (he lives in Ocean City) just enjoying a little vacation time and no one bothers them because they're with family just enjoying themselves.

Seems like a major ego move on his part.

I get that, but there are also people who don't adhere to those rules.  I saw Ray Lewis in FL a few months after the SB.  The fan in me wanted to harass the hell out him, but just congratulated him on the win and kept it moving.  I've seen Iverson as well and he was constantly getting bothered while he was just trying to relax.

[BmoreBird22]

19 minutes ago, redrum52 said:

I get that, but there are also people who don't adhere to those rules.  I saw Ray Lewis in FL a few months after the SB.  The fan in me wanted to harass the hell out him, but just congratulated him on the win and kept it moving.  I've seen Iverson as well and he was constantly getting bothered while he was just trying to relax.

And that's the risk you take when you become a professional player, in my opinion. It's kinda like how celebrities are always followed by the paparazzi.

I'm not saying it's right for people to bother the hell out of an athlete, but to have security guards surround the kiddy pool and not allow other children in is basically like saying, "I'm better than you and my child is, too. Don't come near me, don't come near my child."

This also isn't the first thing I heard that just made me cringe.

Also, I think one important thing to remember as an athlete is the fans are the reason these guys make so much money. If they can't deal with it from time to time, that's just messed up to me.

Edited July 10, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

BmoreBird22, it's four seasons Maui. There aren't too many little kids here. They mainly hang around the primary pool where at its deepest it's 5 feet. Not like Curry reserved the entire adult pool for himself. 

 

Second off, Curry was freaking tired. I saw him a few times. He fell asleep out there.

 

third of all, I was at an Oakland as game last year with my friend, and guess who sat next to us? Harrison Barnes. And by that I mean he reserved an entire row to himself for him and his family and hired private security and guess what? A drunken fan tried to harass him.

 

I get it. I'm at a resort where a ton of celebrities and athletes stay. Meghan Hilty, a Broadway megastar, was here last year, in fact I unknowingly worked out with her.

 

if I see curry in passing I'll post a pic of him. But chances are it doesn't happen

[52520Andrew]

On 7/8/2016 at 8:10 AM, redrum52 said:

That's probably a better word.  If anyone has a ticket, do me a favor and tell me what writing you find on it.  I feel most sports are manipulated and that's part of the reason for more judgement calls being put in the refs hands.

 

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?220031-Is-the-NFL-an-Entertainment-Business-like-the-WWE

 

I had read something similar to this and will try to find that link as well.  

I did not see anything on the most recent Orioles ticket I got about games possibly being fixed. Can post a pic of the fine print later if you want

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Got a picture with him. You want it let me know. But just a heads up, I like keeping my hideous face private lol.

[BmoreBird22]

45 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Got a picture with him. You want it let me know. But just a heads up, I like keeping my hideous face private lol.

I wanna see it

[rmw10]

I'm not even a big basketball fan, but even I'm going to miss Tim Duncan.  Everything looked so easy and natural for him the times I have seen him play.