Do you guys want a win?

[Maryland]

Not sure what you mean.  We havent had a top ten pick since 03 and that was Suggs at 10. 

In 2008 we earned the 8th overall pick and traded out. 

[sflegend89]

I do not think there is a snowballs chance in a pizza oven that we are going to win 8 in a row, but I want wins anyway. As many as we can get. I know that is contrary to getting a higher draft pick, but picking high guarantees nothing anyway.

 

There's no guarantees in sports ever. But picking higher no doubt increases the odds of drafting a playmaker. When you have a GM like Ozzie draft position means more than it does to most other teams because his track record when he selects in a favorable draft position is impeccable. The majority of recent top pick "busts" (Elam, Kindle, Upshaw to an extent) have all been 2nd rounders via trade back or the very last pick of the 1st round in Elam's case.

 

We weren't even drafting in the top 20 in ages until we drafted CJ and while he may not be having the greatest year (partly domino effect of a terrible pass rush/secondary), there's no denying that he's one of the most promising talents we've drafted in recent history, you don't make the Pro Bowl at ILB as a rookie on accident. Ozzie can do damage when you give him good draft position, the season is a lost cause, I do hope we lose out because I can't wait to see what Ozzie does with top 10 picks in rounds 1-3. Ozzie/Eric always have their boards picked clean by the time we're on the clock, not just in the 1st round but in every round. We need to reload, cap space is limited, having a big draft this year is paramount to our success going forward, if we have to lose a lot of games in an otherwise wasted season for that to happen so be it.

Edited November 9, 2015 by sflegend89

[usmccharles]

In 2008 we earned the 8th overall pick and traded out. 

Really? i dont remember that, what did we trade back to? Because i thought we traded up to get Joe at 18 from 23 or something?

[sflegend89]

Really? i dont remember that, what did we trade back to? Because i thought we traded up to get Joe at 18 from 23 or something?

 

We traded back from 8 to 26 with the intention of taking Flacco there. Bisciotti started getting anxious in the war room and insisted we trade a 3rd round pick (We had three 3rd round picks that year) to move up again and MAKE SURE we got Flacco. DeCosta told Steve that Flacco would be there at 26 and they didn't need to trade a pick unnecessarily. Steve famously told Eric to "stop being a pick wh***". We then of course followed the boss's orders and dealt the picks to move back up and get Flacco and the rest is history.

 

I remember they told that story on ESPN during SB week in 2012, interesting stuff.

[usmccharles]

We traded back from 8 to 26 with the intention of taking Flacco there. Bisciotti started getting anxious in the war room and insisted we trade a 3rd round pick (We had three 3rd round picks that year) to move up again and MAKE SURE we got Flacco. DeCosta told Steve that Flacco would be there at 26 and they didn't need to trade a pick unnecessarily. Steve famously told Eric to "stop being a pick wh***". We then of course followed the boss's orders and dealt the picks to move back up and get Flacco and the rest is history.

 

I remember they told that story on ESPN during SB week in 2012, interesting stuff.

Haha, thats great and i share Steve's opinion. 

[stampedehero]

Why tank when its not our standard.  Win as many as we can.    

[sflegend89]

Why tank when its not our standard.  Win as many as we can.    

 

 

There's no guarantees in sports ever. But picking higher no doubt increases the odds of drafting a playmaker. When you have a GM like Ozzie draft position means more than it does to most other teams because his track record when he selects in a favorable draft position is impeccable. The majority of recent top pick "busts" (Elam, Kindle, Upshaw to an extent) have all been 2nd rounders via trade back or the very last pick of the 1st round in Elam's case.

 

We weren't even drafting in the top 20 in ages until we drafted CJ and while he may not be having the greatest year (partly domino effect of a terrible pass rush/secondary), there's no denying that he's one of the most promising talents we've drafted in recent history, you don't make the Pro Bowl at ILB as a rookie on accident. Ozzie can do damage when you give him good draft position, the season is a lost cause, I do hope we lose out because I can't wait to see what Ozzie does with top 10 picks in rounds 1-3. Ozzie/Eric always have their boards picked clean by the time we're on the clock, not just in the 1st round but in every round. We need to reload, cap space is limited, having a big draft this year is paramount to our success going forward, if we have to lose a lot of games in an otherwise wasted season for that to happen so be it.

Edited November 9, 2015 by sflegend89

[beanfigger]

Dallas Cowboys, rams, and our own Baltimore ravens went from double digit losses to a championship in 2 yrs. Saints went from bad record to a superbowl. Colts went from 3-13 to 13-3 and legit championship contender. Cardinals went from double digit losses to nearly winning a championship in a yr or 2. Take 1997 season. I was in college and getting acclimated to the ravens being our team and not the hand me down Cleveland browns. Anyways they got a hard fought win in the finale that costed about 4-5 draft spots. We needed corners desperately. If ravens would of lost that game they would of landed Charles woodson. The constellation prize was Duane Starks. If the ravens landed Charles woodson they may of won consecutive championships. He and Reed and McAllister would of been unfair.

OK say the ravens pull a 6-10 record and target somebody say Bosa. Now say they lose out on Bosa and he becomes the most dominant defender outside Watt. It would suck watching him take over games and be the difference maker in countless games including a championship. The defender the ravens end up settling and reaching for becomes a mediocre nobody like Upshaw. Who in their right mind would want to give up all those wins Bosa could be responsible for including a championship over a couple meaningless wins in a busted season anyways?? If the ravens did not have those top 10 picks they would not of won the Superbowl in 2000

The ravens have aa franchise QB,a good oline,Dline, one of the best safetys in the game. And a good smart coach that gets everybody to work very hard and play to their Max. A losing season would not hurt them and cause a losing atmosphere. Harbaugh and Joe cool have been amazing keeping the ravens in games. Surround them with some alpha male game changers and the ravens are Superbowl contenders!!

Not concerned with any examples from before 2000 because that's a different league. Saints and Cardinals were not top-5 picks to championships. I didn't say "bad record" because that's what people seem to be arguing against having. 6-10 won't be top-5 this year. 6-10 is the kind of record people seem to be rooting for us not to have because of that. I'm saying win all the games we can because rooting for a top pick gives us nothing but more likelihood to get another top pick within the next few seasons, and then another. Colts and Cardinals examples you gave...we can easily accomplish having a good record and no championship without a top five pick, but that's what everybody keeps saying they don't want because only championships matter. Winning leads to winning. Losing leads to more losing. That's the league we're a part of.

[cobrajet]

There is no one I am dying to get in this upcoming draft. We do need a pass rush and Bosa could help, but I do not think he is even worth losing for. We need to try to win and if we still get mathematically eliminated, we can play the spoiler role. Maybe if we were still going through all those QB woes of years past and Andrew Luck was the prize, I may have a different outlook. However that is not the case for our team and I look at it this way - Clowney was projected to be the prize defensive pick a few years ago and he is always hurt. Nothing is really guarenteed in a draft, so I rather our team try to win. Rooting against the team to get a high draft pick could bring us bad karma

[Purple_City39]

There is no one I am dying to get in this upcoming draft. We do need a pass rush and Bosa could help, but I do not think he is even worth losing for. We need to try to win and if we still get mathematically eliminated, we can play the spoiler role. Maybe if we were still going through all those QB woes of years past and Andrew Luck was the prize, I may have a different outlook. However that is not the case for our team and I look at it this way - Clowney was projected to be the prize defensive pick a few years ago and he is always hurt. Nothing is really guarenteed in a draft, so I rather our team try to win. Rooting against the team to get a high draft pick could bring us bad karma

Yeah I'm not sure of any can't miss talent we could get this upcoming draft.  I'd rather see the team actually try to win games and then end up drafting Ramsey or Hargreaves III to help the secondary.

[Militant X 1]

You play to win the game! 

 

You NEVER go out like a sucker by just quitting and throwing in the towel!  If you are going to go out....you go out swinging and let the chips fall where they may!

 

GO RAVENS!

[The Mom Gene]

B E L I E V E...

[Winchester]

On Bosa specifically - we're not going to get him. We aren't bad enough.

And best case scenerio is he becomes a JJ Watt calibre player. That's a longshot, but even so the Texans have proven year in year out that doesn't sniff a championship. Add Clowney who was supposed to be a dominant force... And it's done nothing.

And most of the teams you mentioned with quick turnarounds to championships - the difference was acquiring a HOF QB.

Colts with Manning and then again with Luck through the draft.

Rams and Arizona turned around because of acquiring Kurt Warner.

Cowboys turned it around because of the greatest trade fleecing in history. No team will ever receive that amount of draft and player currency to reload their team again.

And the 2000 Ravens were a recent expansion team who built a championship quickly (albeit 5 seasons so not the turnaround that is being discussed in this thread) on the foundation of 2 HOF players, arguably the 2 best players ever at their respective positions being drafted in 1 round. That's an anomaly - not something you can plan to replicate.

So, of those examples - none are really comparable to our current situation.

1st and foremost because this isn't a bottom feeding team. It's a team that's been in a position to beat Denver, Cinci and Arizona - 3 legit contenders. Were a few plays a game from being there.

That equates to needing the young and inexperienced players on this team needing to gain winning experience and learning how to close out games, and having healthy vets who have been there and done that to help steady the ship.

Our needs are glaring but obvious... And can be fixed with returns to health from key players, solid FA acquisitions at key positions (WR and DB) and a young stud pass rusher that can be a situational guy for a year or 2 under doom/sizzle and then can take over after. That guy can be had in the middle of the first or can be targeted by trading up.

This team is better off going all in for wins now for the benefit of the solid young core that's already on the roster, and rounding it out in the offseason using whatever hand ends up being dealt to us because we don't need a great one to make a run next year. It's just got to be solid.

To many peeps do not see the bigger picture!! Uh yes those teams turned it around cuz they got a franchise qb. They already had other game changer talent surrounding the qb. The ravens have the qb but they need to surround with talent. Young Playmakers on offense and defense. If Upshaw and and the ginger bread man and even Elam are considered successful or hopeful draft picks for their spots then the ravens desperately need early draft picks!! OK say they by some miracle finish 8-8 Then what the hell are they gonna do??!! Pick middle first round and land a solid but unspectacular player and finish 8-8 again?? Role players can be found dirt cheap. Even solid players can be found at bargain prices. Game changers, the most precious commodity in the nfl, players that elite offenses and defenses are built around are acquired 2 ways. You draft'em or you pay them $100mil in free agency. Ozzie very rarely finds a game changer alpha males after round1 or even after top10 picks. Ray and Ed falling to the ravens was an anomaly. In today's NFL a ballhawk safety would never fall outside top10. 2009 was most recent elite player outside round1 with Webb. So stop for repairs and reload ammunition and set course for Superbowl. Now if this were a war and the army was as equipped as the ravens are, would you be in a hurry to try to engage the enemy?? Or would you retreat and reload?? Homers that are crying for a couple wins must really be hardcore football fanatics if a couple wins mean all that much!!

[sflegend89]

There is no one I am dying to get in this upcoming draft. We do need a pass rush and Bosa could help, but I do not think he is even worth losing for. We need to try to win and if we still get mathematically eliminated, we can play the spoiler role. Maybe if we were still going through all those QB woes of years past and Andrew Luck was the prize, I may have a different outlook. However that is not the case for our team and I look at it this way - Clowney was projected to be the prize defensive pick a few years ago and he is always hurt. Nothing is really guarenteed in a draft, so I rather our team try to win. Rooting against the team to get a high draft pick could bring us bad karma

 

Jalen Ramsey, the best CB some scouts say they have scouted in many years. Potential to be the next Patrick Peterson with great size, great tackling, and the ability to play both CB and FS at a high level. Two positions we are hurting at greatly. VH3, shut down corner potential, could be the next Chris Harris Jr type, amazing instincts, ball skills, and ability to read routes.

 

Either of those guys could be huge for us, I will take losses for the rest of the year with a smile on my face if it means getting either of those 2 monsters. Another thing you have to consider is we could trade a high pick to a QB needy team who has their heart set on Lynch or Goff and come away with a crazy haul. Just remember our cap situation is pretty bad this offseason, if we are going to make big moves it's going to have to come via the draft and the higher the picks the better.

[usmccharles]

Jalen Ramsey, the best CB some scouts say they have scouted in many years. Potential to be the next Patrick Peterson with great size, great tackling, and the ability to play both CB and FS at a high level. Two positions we are hurting at greatly. VH3, shut down corner potential, could be the next Chris Harris Jr type, amazing instincts, ball skills, and ability to read routes.

 

Either of those guys could be huge for us, I will take losses for the rest of the year with a smile on my face if it means getting either of those 2 monsters. Another thing you have to consider is we could trade a high pick to a QB needy team who has their heart set on Lynch or Goff and come away with a crazy haul. Just remember our cap situation is pretty bad this offseason, if we are going to make big moves it's going to have to come via the draft and the higher the picks the better.

I agree with everything other than the obvious.  I really want Ramsey, he looks like that big playmaker, although i havent seen the ballhawking skills yet so not sure about that.  My ideal first two days would be Ramsey and Ogbha.  But i would love to get some extra picks if a QB team moved up, then maybe we could trade back down...I am for sure excited to see what Oz plans on doing.  Just depends on what draft pick we come up away with, i hope we have a top 10 pick, that being said i dont want to lose out or anything, its a catch 22 for me. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Overall a good post. However half the players you mentioned are back up caliber. Everybody needs to think realistically. Other teams players are getting payed to. Homers(not directed at you) tend to forget that. Homers are saying things like the ravens don't need WRs. They already have reveivers. And the ravens do not need OLBs. Upshaw is their OLB. And other teams are fielding the most talent they can. It is about skill and talent. It is not the movies. The ravens gm has not done so well recently and the consensus excuse is his average draft spot is in the 20's. It is a business. Just like financial decisions making current financial situations tight for future success and prosperity.

Not all the players I mentioned are backups... But in regards to the ones that are - you need depth and quality rotations, so good backups are needed and not something that's easy to find.

Also, just because someone is a backup in their 1st or 2nd year doesn't mean they won't develop into a starter. Most don't peak until their 4th-5th year.

But, Mosley is a potential future All Pro. Jimmy smith, Will Hill and Brandon Williams may be as well. Right there, that's a great young foundation for a defense to build around.

How many teams in the league have 4 players 5 years in the league or less with legitimate All Pro potential?

Wagner, as a rookie played at an All Pro level. He's not playing well this year, but realistically he's a very solid RT who may reach a few pro bowls.

Jernigan was the 2nd most productive pass rusher (per snap) as a rookie behind only JJ Watt. Carl Davis looks like a legitimate starter already and should only get better. Def not a "backup."

KO is a pro bowl level guard and I think we'll find a way to retain him. Urschel is a starting quality guard and would start for several teams right now.

Juice is a pro bowler, albeit at a dying position so not much competition. Gillmore is a very solid starter and is improving rapidly. Wouldn't be surprised to see him become a top 5-8 all around TE in the league. Both Maxx and Boyle have shown flashes of being starter quality or at least top notch backup/situational players.

Where we're weak is depth in the secondary, pass rush and WR and leadership/experience. At all 3 positions we lack young talent and went into this season depending upon former or current top notch, veteran leaders in Suggs, SSS, and Webb/Arrington.

Losing Suggs and SSS were huge blows - not only bc of talent, but also because of leadership and killer instinct. These are the guys everyone looks to when it's time to fight back or put a game away. I think our losing record has more to do with losing that than an overall lack of talent.

That being said we absolutely need to draft a stud pass rusher, corner and preferably a FS. Behind Smith were weak at corner. Lewis has been a failure at FS.

Suggs would've kept our pass rush dangerous this year but when we let McPhee walk we immediately created a dire need at OLB.

And at WR we need to sign a proven vet or 2. Aiken is a good #3 and Givens is looking useful as a deep threat. Ross is a good returner and gadget player in space. I have high hopes for Perriman still though I know I'm in the minority. Even if SSS returns, we still need to sign a proven vet.

But otherwise we have great young talent at most positions. We desperately need a pass rusher and secondary help in the draft. But you don't need a top 5 pick to accomplish that. We can push for wins and still land a top corner or pass rusher.

Otherwise a couple good signings esp at WR and I guarantee we're contending again next year.

[Winchester]

Not all the players I mentioned are backups... But in regards to the ones that are - you need depth and quality rotations, so good backups are needed and not something that's easy to find.

Also, just because someone is a backup in their 1st or 2nd year doesn't mean they won't develop into a starter. Most don't peak until their 4th-5th year.

But, Mosley is a potential future All Pro. Jimmy smith, Will Hill and Brandon Williams may be as well. Right there, that's a great young foundation for a defense to build around.

How many teams in the league have 4 players 5 years in the league or less with legitimate All Pro potential?

Wagner, as a rookie played at an All Pro level. He's not playing well this year, but realistically he's a very solid RT who may reach a few pro bowls.

Jernigan was the 2nd most productive pass rusher (per snap) as a rookie behind only JJ Watt. Carl Davis looks like a legitimate starter already and should only get better. Def not a "backup."

KO is a pro bowl level guard and I think we'll find a way to retain him. Urschel is a starting quality guard and would start for several teams right now.

Juice is a pro bowler, albeit at a dying position so not much competition. Gillmore is a very solid starter and is improving rapidly. Wouldn't be surprised to see him become a top 5-8 all around TE in the league. Both Maxx and Boyle have shown flashes of being starter quality or at least top notch backup/situational players.

Where we're weak is depth in the secondary, pass rush and WR and leadership/experience. At all 3 positions we lack young talent and went into this season depending upon former or current top notch, veteran leaders in Suggs, SSS, and Webb/Arrington.

Losing Suggs and SSS were huge blows - not only bc of talent, but also because of leadership and killer instinct. These are the guys everyone looks to when it's time to fight back or put a game away. I think our losing record has more to do with losing that than an overall lack of talent.

That being said we absolutely need to draft a stud pass rusher, corner and preferably a FS. Behind Smith were weak at corner. Lewis has been a failure at FS.

Suggs would've kept our pass rush dangerous this year but when we let McPhee walk we immediately created a dire need at OLB.

And at WR we need to sign a proven vet or 2. Aiken is a good #3 and Givens is looking useful as a deep threat. Ross is a good returner and gadget player in space. I have high hopes for Perriman still though I know I'm in the minority. Even if SSS returns, we still need to sign a proven vet.

But otherwise we have great young talent at most positions. We desperately need a pass rusher and secondary help in the draft. But you don't need a top 5 pick to accomplish that. We can push for wins and still land a top corner or pass rusher.

Otherwise a couple good signings esp at WR and I guarantee we're contending again next year.

Mosley may be pro bowl caliber again. But even that is a stretch considering his play this year is so terrible. Wil!iams is a good nt but not an all pro. Jernigan does a couple things really well but olines are neutralizing it now. Carl Davis is solid. The group is very solid but unspectacular. The group is capable of keeping LBs and edge rushers clean but there are no Ngata's in the mix. Like I said the Dline is solid, very solid and can keep LBs and edge rushers clean while creating some surge occasionally. But where are the edge rushers and LBs that can make plays?? Outside of Mosley whom I do hold hopes for but he is struggling while asked to do more this year, there are no alpha male playmakers at edge rush or LB. And Jimmy is a joke!! He has flashed at times in his career but has struggled more than flash. This team has serious talent deficiencies!! At WR, TE,Edge rush,S,CB,LT. All key positions. Other teams players are being paid to!! To often a player flashes a couple plays as does pretty much ANY PLAYER that takes hundreds of snaps in the NFL. And homers believe they have a future pro bowler. Gilmore for instance has one beastmode preseason play and fanatics have him in the pro bowl already. But truth be told he is not winning match ups or beating single coverage very often. Which is why Maxx Williams was drafted. I don't know how!! but somebody in management saw a fast athletic playmaking TE. Capable of stretching defenses better than Gilmore. Gronk, Graham,Davis,Kelce,Reed,Eifert,Walker,Harbor are some of the TEs that are defense stretching playmakers that make plays on their own. Ravens TEs do not even come close to play speed and athleticism of those dudes!! Ravens TEs do not even compare to a healthy Gresham much less a top 5 TE. Boyle is actually the sharpest route runner of ravens TEs. Ravens would of been better off signing Gresham or Housler than drafting Maxx. And using that pick on a WR like Diggs or Lockett or some other impact player. I do agree if ravens retain Osemele and if Ursch can settle in at center and ravens find some legit WRs the offense should be top 3 next season. Joe cool is all oh sooooo underutilized with the scrubs he is given to work with. Worst case for raven offense is Givens to give false hope like Marlon and countless other ravens weapons and enter next year thinking they possess an ascending WR talent and waste Joe Cools talent.

Best case scenario for the offense in my opinion. Keep in mind these are not moves I say the ravens should make. Just would be great for the offense. Sign Alshon,he is a taller faster Boldin. His speed and routes are underrated and he is that 6'3 1/2 WR Joe cool can trust when everybody is covered. Draft Tunsil or Stanley and scrap Monroe. Resign Osemele because of his injuries he will be cheaper than expected. Settle the Ursch in at center. He gives our team a 320lb gritty hard working intelligent center that can create a surge!! If Yanda takes care of his bod with strict nutrition in addition to his workouts he has another dominant year or 2. Hopefully Wagner returns to at least a RT that gets some pro bowl consideration. A top 6 RT would be great if he returns to at least that level. Draft best WR left on the board in round2 or even trade up back into round one. Draft Yandas replacement to groom at top of round3. Preferably a guard that can fill in at guard or tackle if there is an injury. It would be nice to pick up a seam stretching TE cheap if any are cut. Like the dude underperforming in the rams system. If not, I think Boyle or Gilmore could be functional finding openings in zones created by more skilled and feared WRs while being great blockers. And it would be cool for Allen to ascend to a 250+ carry runner and become a very good receiver out of the backfield. And form a tandem with power back West. My humble opinion an established #1WR like Alshon is very necessary for immediate high octane scoring. Multiple rookie WRs could take a couple seasons to acclimate. This way the rookie will have Alshon or whichever WR the ravens acquire to learn from. Ravens offense should be top 3 or better. On side note I would like to see ravens acquire Aldon, considering Harbsughs brother Jim got him playing at his optimal level. And now that he is 25 he could of finally grown up. Ravens are void of alpha males at marquee positions like Edge rusher and WR and it will be tough to fill all the voids with true playmakers without giving players like Aldon and Washington a chance like giving Will Hill another shot. Where would ravens secondary be without him??!!

Edited November 11, 2015 by Winchester

[Purple_ICE 81]

Win out...as much as a top 10 pick would benefit us next year, the playoffs are always fun with our guys in the mix.

Long road ahead

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Mosley may be pro bowl caliber again. But even that is a stretch considering his play this year is so terrible. Wil!iams is a good nt but not an all pro. Jernigan does a couple things really well but olines are neutralizing it now. Carl Davis is solid. The group is very solid but unspectacular. The group is capable of keeping LBs and edge rushers clean but there are no Ngata's in the mix. Like I said the Dline is solid, very solid and can keep LBs and edge rushers clean while creating some surge occasionally. But where are the edge rushers and LBs that can make plays?? Outside of Mosley whom I do hold hopes for but he is struggling while asked to do more this year, there are no alpha male playmakers at edge rush or LB. And Jimmy is a joke!! He has flashed at times in his career but has struggled more than flash. This team has serious talent deficiencies!! At WR, TE,Edge rush,S,CB,LT. All key positions. Other teams players are being paid to!! To often a player flashes a couple plays as does pretty much ANY PLAYER that takes hundreds of snaps in the NFL. And homers believe they have a future pro bowler. Gilmore for instance has one beastmode preseason play and fanatics have him in the pro bowl already. But truth be told he is not winning match ups or beating single coverage very often. Which is why Maxx Williams was drafted. I don't know how!! but somebody in management saw a fast athletic playmaking TE. Capable of stretching defenses better than Gilmore. Gronk, Graham,Davis,Kelce,Reed,Eifert,Walker,Harbor are some of the TEs that are defense stretching playmakers that make plays on their own. Ravens TEs do not even come close to play speed and athleticism of those dudes!! Ravens TEs do not even compare to a healthy Gresham much less a top 5 TE. Boyle is actually the sharpest route runner of ravens TEs. Ravens would of been better off signing Gresham or Housler than drafting Maxx. And using that pick on a WR like Diggs or Lockett or some other impact player. I do agree if ravens retain Osemele and if Ursch can settle in at center and ravens find some legit WRs the offense should be top 3 next season. Joe cool is all oh sooooo underutilized with the scrubs he is given to work with. Worst case for raven offense is Givens to give false hope like Marlon and countless other ravens weapons and enter next year thinking they possess an ascending WR talent and waste Joe Cools talent.

Best case scenario for the offense in my opinion. Keep in mind these are not moves I say the ravens should make. Just would be great for the offense. Sign Alshon,he is a taller faster Boldin. His speed and routes are underrated and he is that 6'3 1/2 WR Joe cool can trust when everybody is covered. Draft Tunsil or Stanley and scrap Monroe. Resign Osemele because of his injuries he will be cheaper than expected. Settle the Ursch in at center. He gives our team a 320lb gritty hard working intelligent center that can create a surge!! If Yanda takes care of his bod with strict nutrition in addition to his workouts he has another dominant year or 2. Hopefully Wagner returns to at least a RT that gets some pro bowl consideration. A top 6 RT would be great if he returns to at least that level. Draft best WR left on the board in round2 or even trade up back into round one. Draft Yandas replacement to groom at top of round3. Preferably a guard that can fill in at guard or tackle if there is an injury. It would be nice to pick up a seam stretching TE cheap if any are cut. Like the dude underperforming in the rams system. If not, I think Boyle or Gilmore could be functional finding openings in zones created by more skilled and feared WRs while being great blockers. And it would be cool for Allen to ascend to a 250+ carry runner and become a very good receiver out of the backfield. And form a tandem with power back West. My humble opinion an established #1WR like Alshon is very necessary for immediate high octane scoring. Multiple rookie WRs could take a couple seasons to acclimate. This way the rookie will have Alshon or whichever WR the ravens acquire to learn from. Ravens offense should be top 3 or better. On side note I would like to see ravens acquire Aldon, considering Harbsughs brother Jim got him playing at his optimal level. And now that he is 25 he could of finally grown up. Ravens are void of alpha males at marquee positions like Edge rusher and WR and it will be tough to fill all the voids with true playmakers without giving players like Aldon and Washington a chance like giving Will Hill another shot. Where would ravens secondary be without him??!!

I'm not goin to address 99% of this bc most of it is wasted space.

But, you knock our TEs and use Jermaine Gresham and Rob Housler as examples of who are better.

Housler has 1 catch for 6 yards on a bad Browns team in dire need of pass catchers. Granted Barnidge has had a breakout year but that's an absolute joke.

Gresham has 11 catches for 132 yds and no TDs playing in one of the most explosive offenses.

Gillmore has 30 catches for 363 yds and 4 TDs. And that's with missing a few games.

Maxx Williams has 12 catches for 108 yds with far less opportunity than Gresham.

Nick Boyle has 11 catches for 93 yds with even less opportunity.

So our rookie 3rd TE has been 100x better than Housler who you've been touting as a savior, athletic freak specimen since the offseason. He sucks. The Browns would use 2 TE sets if Housler could do anything bc they don't have receivers. But he can't.

And Maxx has been every bit as productive as Gresham... And he's a fat slob, backup rookie. If that's your assessment of Maxx; and he's doing every bit as much as Gresham - how do you come to the conclusion that Gresham is so much better??

And to say Gillmore only had 1 good play and it was preseason shows that you don't even watch the Ravens. Against Oakland he broke 2 tackles and dragged 2 defenders 10 yds into the endzone. Had another great catch for a TD in that game.

He's made several key 3rd down catches. He had several huge plays on the final drive against Arizona and was targeted by Joe on the game ending INT bc Crockett was playing so lights out Joe figured he could just lob it into double coverage and he'd come down with it.

I don't need to address anything else, because your Housler and Gresham comments destroy any credibility you may have had. You're either extremely delusional or extremely committed to trolling.

Either way done wasting my time on it.

Edited November 13, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

You're beating a dead horse dude.

[Winchester]

You're beating a dead horse dude.

I'm not goin to address 99% of this bc most of it is wasted space.

But, you knock our TEs and use Jermaine Gresham and Rob Housler as examples of who are better.

Housler has 1 catch for 6 yards on a bad Browns team in dire need of pass catchers. Granted Barnidge has had a breakout year but that's an absolute joke.

Gresham has 11 catches for 132 yds and no TDs playing in one of the most explosive offenses.

Gillmore has 30 catches for 363 yds and 4 TDs. And that's with missing a few games.

Maxx Williams has 12 catches for 108 yds with far less opportunity than Gresham.

Nick Boyle has 11 catches for 93 yds with even less opportunity.

So our rookie 3rd TE has been 100x better than Housler who you've been touting as a savior, athletic freak specimen since the offseason. He sucks. The Browns would use 2 TE sets if Housler could do anything bc they don't have receivers. But he can't.

And Maxx has been every bit as productive as Gresham... And he's a fat slob, backup rookie. If that's your assessment of Maxx; and he's doing every bit as much as Gresham - how do you come to the conclusion that Gresham is so much better??

And to say Gillmore only had 1 good play and it was preseason shows that you don't even watch the Ravens. Against Oakland he broke 2 tackles and dragged 2 defenders 10 yds into the endzone. Had another great catch for a TD in that game.

He's made several key 3rd down catches. He had several huge plays on the final drive against Arizona and was targeted by Joe on the game ending INT bc Crockett was playing so lights out Joe figured he could just lob it into double coverage and he'd come down with it.

I don't need to address anything else, because your Housler and Gresham comments destroy any credibility you may have had. You're either extremely delusional or extremely committed to trolling.

Either way done wasting my time on it.

Delusional?? Nice try dude! Who actually thinks the ravens TEs can be pro bowlers or a top6 TE in the NFL?? Numbers or no numbers every TE named has more speed and athleticism than the ravens slugs at TE. Gresham competes with 3 stud WRs for catches. Housler has a third string qb. The ravens are more committed to using TEs because of the offense's scheme and the WRs suck. Gresham has been in a pro bowl. I would bet $$ ravens TEs never come close! The amount of draft picks on TEs illustrates their commitment to using TEs!! Of course Gilmore has several nice plays but it is the preseason play that everybody talks about. Barnidge has a breakout but that is a fluke because he isn't wearing a ravens uniform?? If he were a raven all the homers would be calling him a steal and you know it!! You Can not just acknowledge he is outplaying all of the ravens TEs. Delusional homerism just does not allow it. Gilmore is an NFL caliber TE but not elite by any means. With Ravens terrible WRs if Ravens had a fast athletic playmaking TE he would be on pace for over a 1000 yards. Rudolph,Cameron and about 10 or more other TEs in the NFL would be on pace for over a 1000 yards if they played in Baltimore with such an awful crew of Receivers. I actually like Gilmore and Boyle. I like Gilmore commitment to getting in better shape and both of their blocking. They can be very effective working zones if a legit #1 WR creates space. They just are not speed seam threats that worry defenses very much. And get your point straight. I never said Gresham or Housler are big upgrades. The ravens could of had them cheap and got similar or more production and drafted an impact player like Tyler Lockett or somebody with the maxx pick.

Lost, you actually think the ravens are a good and talented team!! Tell us how good they are after the game with the jaguars.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Winchester

[January J]

Mosley may be pro bowl caliber again. But even that is a stretch considering his play this year is so terrible. Wil!iams is a good nt but not an all pro. Jernigan does a couple things really well but olines are neutralizing it now. Carl Davis is solid. The group is very solid but unspectacular. The group is capable of keeping LBs and edge rushers clean but there are no Ngata's in the mix. Like I said the Dline is solid, very solid and can keep LBs and edge rushers clean while creating some surge occasionally. But where are the edge rushers and LBs that can make plays?? Outside of Mosley whom I do hold hopes for but he is struggling while asked to do more this year, there are no alpha male playmakers at edge rush or LB. And Jimmy is a joke!! He has flashed at times in his career but has struggled more than flash. This team has serious talent deficiencies!! At WR, TE,Edge rush,S,CB,LT. All key positions. Other teams players are being paid to!! To often a player flashes a couple plays as does pretty much ANY PLAYER that takes hundreds of snaps in the NFL. And homers believe they have a future pro bowler. Gilmore for instance has one beastmode preseason play and fanatics have him in the pro bowl already. But truth be told he is not winning match ups or beating single coverage very often. Which is why Maxx Williams was drafted. I don't know how!! but somebody in management saw a fast athletic playmaking TE. Capable of stretching defenses better than Gilmore. Gronk, Graham,Davis,Kelce,Reed,Eifert,Walker,Harbor are some of the TEs that are defense stretching playmakers that make plays on their own. Ravens TEs do not even come close to play speed and athleticism of those dudes!! Ravens TEs do not even compare to a healthy Gresham much less a top 5 TE. Boyle is actually the sharpest route runner of ravens TEs. Ravens would of been better off signing Gresham or Housler than drafting Maxx. And using that pick on a WR like Diggs or Lockett or some other impact player. I do agree if ravens retain Osemele and if Ursch can settle in at center and ravens find some legit WRs the offense should be top 3 next season. Joe cool is all oh sooooo underutilized with the scrubs he is given to work with. Worst case for raven offense is Givens to give false hope like Marlon and countless other ravens weapons and enter next year thinking they possess an ascending WR talent and waste Joe Cools talent.

Best case scenario for the offense in my opinion. Keep in mind these are not moves I say the ravens should make. Just would be great for the offense. Sign Alshon,he is a taller faster Boldin. His speed and routes are underrated and he is that 6'3 1/2 WR Joe cool can trust when everybody is covered. Draft Tunsil or Stanley and scrap Monroe. Resign Osemele because of his injuries he will be cheaper than expected. Settle the Ursch in at center. He gives our team a 320lb gritty hard working intelligent center that can create a surge!! If Yanda takes care of his bod with strict nutrition in addition to his workouts he has another dominant year or 2. Hopefully Wagner returns to at least a RT that gets some pro bowl consideration. A top 6 RT would be great if he returns to at least that level. Draft best WR left on the board in round2 or even trade up back into round one. Draft Yandas replacement to groom at top of round3. Preferably a guard that can fill in at guard or tackle if there is an injury. It would be nice to pick up a seam stretching TE cheap if any are cut. Like the dude underperforming in the rams system. If not, I think Boyle or Gilmore could be functional finding openings in zones created by more skilled and feared WRs while being great blockers. And it would be cool for Allen to ascend to a 250+ carry runner and become a very good receiver out of the backfield. And form a tandem with power back West. My humble opinion an established #1WR like Alshon is very necessary for immediate high octane scoring. Multiple rookie WRs could take a couple seasons to acclimate. This way the rookie will have Alshon or whichever WR the ravens acquire to learn from. Ravens offense should be top 3 or better. On side note I would like to see ravens acquire Aldon, considering Harbsughs brother Jim got him playing at his optimal level. And now that he is 25 he could of finally grown up. Ravens are void of alpha males at marquee positions like Edge rusher and WR and it will be tough to fill all the voids with true playmakers without giving players like Aldon and Washington a chance like giving Will Hill another shot. Where would ravens secondary be without him??!!

yikes. Your way off on several fronts...don't even know where to begin...so I don't think I will. Edited November 13, 2015 by January J

[Winchester]

yikes. Your way off on several fronts...don't even know where to begin...so I don't think I will.

Y even bring it up?? I simply said ravens could of got just as much or more production from a cheap free agent TE and used the pick on Lockett,Gregory or somebody over wasting the pick on Maxx in the avatar there lol

Edited November 13, 2015 by Winchester

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Delusional?? Nice try dude! Who actually thinks the ravens TEs can be pro bowlers or a top6 TE in the NFL?? Numbers or no numbers every TE named has more speed and athleticism than the ravens slugs at TE. Gresham competes with 3 stud WRs for catches. Housler has a third string qb. The ravens are more committed to using TEs because of the offense's scheme and the WRs suck. Gresham has been in a pro bowl. I would bet $$ ravens TEs never come close! The amount of draft picks on TEs illustrates their commitment to using TEs!! Of course Gilmore has several nice plays but it is the preseason play that everybody talks about. Barnidge has a breakout but that is a fluke because he isn't wearing a ravens uniform?? If he were a raven all the homers would be calling him a steal and you know it!! You Can not just acknowledge he is outplaying all of the ravens TEs. Delusional homerism just does not allow it. Gilmore is an NFL caliber TE but not elite by any means. With Ravens terrible WRs if Ravens had a fast athletic playmaking TE he would be on pace for over a 1000 yards. Rudolph,Cameron and about 10 or more other TEs in the NFL would be on pace for over a 1000 yards if they played in Baltimore with such an awful crew of Receivers. I actually like Gilmore and Boyle. I like Gilmore commitment to getting in better shape and both of their blocking. They can be very effective working zones if a legit #1 WR creates space. They just are not speed seam threats that worry defenses very much. And get your point straight. I never said Gresham or Housler are big upgrades. The ravens could of had them cheap and got similar or more production and drafted an impact player like Tyler Lockett or somebody with the maxx pick.

Lost, you actually think the ravens are a good and talented team!! Tell us how good they are after the game with the jaguars.

Not what I said. We have talent. It's young. We're injured. And we've been in every game... So tell me? How are we god awful like you've been preaching?  My point is, we're not terrible, not necessarily good, but we've been in literally every game. We have Suggs back, and we probably win half of those we haven't won already. And notice one thing... You're the only one complaining about the TE situation...I think Gillmore is slightly above average. He's a good blocker, who's got good hands, who may not be fast but he's hard to take down in the open field. If we had a legit deep threat(and Givens is going to be used for), his life would be a life would be a lot easier. 

 

 

If we get blown out by the Jags fine. I'll accept our fate as a team picking in the top ten. I wouldn't mind that caliber of talent. But you're way over exaggerating this. We could litearlly go back to being a playoff team next year without blinking an eye if we take advantage of the talent in the upper half(cause they have about 8 good prospects that I would love to have here.. And only one of them is a WR). 

 

Injuries have screwed the season over. That's the truth. Players who have come back from it(CJ, Wagner, Jimmy, Jernigan) and ones that have happened as the season has progressed(Monroe, Suggs, Perriman, Steve). Add in the fact that the top half of our schedule was very hard and yes.. The stars aligned for a bad year. It happens.

 

But your statements are over exaggerations my man. 

[Winchester]

Not what I said. We have talent. It's young. We're injured. And we've been in every game... So tell me? How are we god awful like you've been preaching? My point is, we're not terrible, not necessarily good, but we've been in literally every game. We have Suggs back, and we probably win half of those we haven't won already. And notice one thing... You're the only one complaining about the TE situation...I think Gillmore is slightly above average. He's a good blocker, who's got good hands, who may not be fast but he's hard to take down in the open field. If we had a legit deep threat(and Givens is going to be used for), his life would be a life would be a lot easier. Ravens picking top5 will be good for the team to reload some game changers!!

If we get blown out by the Jags fine. I'll accept our fate as a team picking in the top ten. I wouldn't mind that caliber of talent. But you're way over exaggerating this. We could litearlly go back to being a playoff team next year without blinking an eye if we take advantage of the talent in the upper half(cause they have about 8 good prospects that I would love to have here.. And only one of them is a WR).

Injuries have screwed the season over. That's the truth. Players who have come back from it(CJ, Wagner, Jimmy, Jernigan) and ones that have happened as the season has progressed(Monroe, Suggs, Perriman, Steve). Add in the fact that the top half of our schedule was very hard and yes.. The stars aligned for a bad year. It happens.

But your statements are over exaggerations my man.

I agree with much of what you said. Why the hostility?? I dont want just a decent team. I want a young talented team that can give Brady the worst afc championship game of his career!! I just don't want to count on aging edge rushers. Or these scrubs at WR!! I want a legit #1 that opens up the TE and other Receivers. I want to sign Mike Neal to add explosion to our stout DLine and find a young explosive edge rusher. Would not mind ravens looking into giving Aldon a shot. He played his best with Harbaugh brother. Because elite edge rushers are tough and expensive to find otherwise. I do know Neal spoke with the ravens and was impressed before staying with The packers. That dude is so similar to Atkins in talent!! With Brandon Williams giving him space I expect double digit sacks if injury free. He and Jernigan can be quite a penetrating duo!! Edited November 13, 2015 by Winchester

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I agree with much of what you said. Why the hostility?? I dont want just a decent team. I want a young talented team that can give Brady the worst afc championship game of his career!! I just don't want to count on aging edge rushers. Or these scrubs at WR!! I want a legit #1 that opens up the TE and other Receivers. I want to sign Mike Neal to add explosion to our stout DLine and find a young explosive edge rusher. Would not mind ravens looking into giving Aldon a shot. He played his best with Harbaugh brother. Because elite edge rushers are tough and expensive to find otherwise. I do know Neal spoke with the ravens and was impressed before staying with The packers. That dude is so similar to Atkins in talent!! With Brandon Williams giving him space I expect double digit sacks if injury free. He and Jernigan can be quite a penetrating duo!!

Aldon isn't just a headcase, he's a moron who's one stupid mistake away from never playing again. No thanks. 

 

And Neal? I mean, he's okay, but he's the what, tertiary pass rusher on that team? Not even? He'd be a good piece and all,  but honestly, we don't need a supreme number one.. We can win a SB with slightly above average WRs here(I'd argue Boldin was so misused here he wasn't a true #1. Thanks Cam). Honestly, getting healthy and getting an edge rusher would honestly solve a ton of our issues, especially if we got a deep threat. I think we can rely more on the TEs once that deep threat is acquired(at this point, I'm convinced Perriman won't play this year. Slow healer). 

 

 

And the hostility. Run in with a former flame kind ruined my day. Sorry for the outburst. Hard day. =

[The Raven]

I pity those who would choose to lose. What integrity do you have? Any self respect at all? I'm glad we have some pride and that we're trying to win.

Edited November 13, 2015 by The Raven

[January J]

Mosley may be pro bowl caliber again. But even that is a stretch considering his play this year is so terrible. Wil!iams is a good nt but not an all pro. Jernigan does a couple things really well but olines are neutralizing it now. Carl Davis is solid. The group is very solid but unspectacular. The group is capable of keeping LBs and edge rushers clean but there are no Ngata's in the mix. Like I said the Dline is solid, very solid and can keep LBs and edge rushers clean while creating some surge occasionally. But where are the edge rushers and LBs that can make plays?? Outside of Mosley whom I do hold hopes for but he is struggling while asked to do more this year, there are no alpha male playmakers at edge rush or LB. And Jimmy is a joke!! He has flashed at times in his career but has struggled more than flash. This team has serious talent deficiencies!! At WR, TE,Edge rush,S,CB,LT. All key positions. Other teams players are being paid to!! To often a player flashes a couple plays as does pretty much ANY PLAYER that takes hundreds of snaps in the NFL. And homers believe they have a future pro bowler. Gilmore for instance has one beastmode preseason play and fanatics have him in the pro bowl already. But truth be told he is not winning match ups or beating single coverage very often. Which is why Maxx Williams was drafted. I don't know how!! but somebody in management saw a fast athletic playmaking TE. Capable of stretching defenses better than Gilmore. Gronk, Graham,Davis,Kelce,Reed,Eifert,Walker,Harbor are some of the TEs that are defense stretching playmakers that make plays on their own. Ravens TEs do not even come close to play speed and athleticism of those dudes!! Ravens TEs do not even compare to a healthy Gresham much less a top 5 TE. Boyle is actually the sharpest route runner of ravens TEs. Ravens would of been better off signing Gresham or Housler than drafting Maxx. And using that pick on a WR like Diggs or Lockett or some other impact player. I do agree if ravens retain Osemele and if Ursch can settle in at center and ravens find some legit WRs the offense should be top 3 next season. Joe cool is all oh sooooo underutilized with the scrubs he is given to work with. Worst case for raven offense is Givens to give false hope like Marlon and countless other ravens weapons and enter next year thinking they possess an ascending WR talent and waste Joe Cools talent.

Best case scenario for the offense in my opinion. Keep in mind these are not moves I say the ravens should make. Just would be great for the offense. Sign Alshon,he is a taller faster Boldin. His speed and routes are underrated and he is that 6'3 1/2 WR Joe cool can trust when everybody is covered. Draft Tunsil or Stanley and scrap Monroe. Resign Osemele because of his injuries he will be cheaper than expected. Settle the Ursch in at center. He gives our team a 320lb gritty hard working intelligent center that can create a surge!! If Yanda takes care of his bod with strict nutrition in addition to his workouts he has another dominant year or 2. Hopefully Wagner returns to at least a RT that gets some pro bowl consideration. A top 6 RT would be great if he returns to at least that level. Draft best WR left on the board in round2 or even trade up back into round one. Draft Yandas replacement to groom at top of round3. Preferably a guard that can fill in at guard or tackle if there is an injury. It would be nice to pick up a seam stretching TE cheap if any are cut. Like the dude underperforming in the rams system. If not, I think Boyle or Gilmore could be functional finding openings in zones created by more skilled and feared WRs while being great blockers. And it would be cool for Allen to ascend to a 250+ carry runner and become a very good receiver out of the backfield. And form a tandem with power back West. My humble opinion an established #1WR like Alshon is very necessary for immediate high octane scoring. Multiple rookie WRs could take a couple seasons to acclimate. This way the rookie will have Alshon or whichever WR the ravens acquire to learn from. Ravens offense should be top 3 or better. On side note I would like to see ravens acquire Aldon, considering Harbsughs brother Jim got him playing at his optimal level. And now that he is 25 he could of finally grown up. Ravens are void of alpha males at marquee positions like Edge rusher and WR and it will be tough to fill all the voids with true playmakers without giving players like Aldon and Washington a chance like giving Will Hill another shot. Where would ravens secondary be without him??!!

do you realize the ceiling that our tight ends have? You just named several veterans who have been in the league for 3 or 4 years compared to our 21 year old and 2nd year tight ends. Of course they aren't going to be lighting it up. It takes time for tight ends to develop. This is certainly going to be one of our strong suits in the next year or two. Crazy potential. That's the problem with mos fans- they have no patience and want everything right this second. And Maxx was drafted bc crock wasn't stretching the field or beating single coverage? Pretty sure that isn't why he was drafted - and I'm pretty sure Dennis Pitta had something to do with it as well. And Aldon smith? Sure why not? Let's bring in Ray McDonald and resign Terrence Cody too. I don't even have to time to address the rest of the mess you just wrote. Bringin in alshon and drafting tunsil were the only things that even halfway made sense.

[Winchester]

do you realize the ceiling that our tight ends have? You just named several veterans who have been in the league for 3 or 4 years compared to our 21 year old and 2nd year tight ends. Of course they aren't going to be lighting it up. It takes time for tight ends to develop. This is certainly going to be one of our strong suits in the next year or two. Crazy potential. That's the problem with mos fans- they have no patience and want everything right this second. And Maxx was drafted bc crock wasn't stretching the field or beating single coverage? Pretty sure that isn't why he was drafted - and I'm pretty sure Dennis Pitta had something to do with it as well. And Aldon smith? Sure why not? Let's bring in Ray McDonald and resign Terrence Cody too. I don't even have to time to address the rest of the mess you just wrote. Bringin in alshon and drafting tunsil were the only things that even halfway made sense.

Maxx was brought in to be an athletic seam stretching TE like Kelce or Eifert. He is nowhere close!! He runs like a slug and looks as slow as Boyle, a blocking TE. I don't know what anybody was looking at when maxx was tagged the best TE because that dude is slower than a slug. He is out of shape with the body of a 45 yr old couch potato. Take a look at him running the 40 there trying to beat his 4.9 40 time!! The ravens know they made a mistake with this guy. I like Gilmore to be better than average if the ravens ever get a legit #1 to open zones up for him. But not a seam stretching playmaker like Kelce Cameron or Eifert. McDonald and Cody are not talented enough to give a shot. Aldon has elite skills.

[January J]

Maxx was brought in to be an athletic seam stretching TE like Kelce or Eifert. He is nowhere close!! He runs like a slug and looks as slow as Boyle, a blocking TE. I don't know what anybody was looking at when maxx was tagged the best TE because that dude is slower than a slug. He is out of shape with the body of a 45 yr old couch potato. Take a look at him running the 40 there trying to beat his 4.9 40 time!! The ravens know they made a mistake with this guy. I like Gilmore to be better than average if the ravens ever get a legit #1 to open zones up for him. But not a seam stretching playmaker like Kelce Cameron or Eifert. McDonald and Cody are not talented enough to give a shot. Aldon has elite skills.

I can agree that the shift from college to the nfl probably has been a bit of a shock to him- like it is for many players. he looked a little in over his head during camp and out of shape. I think he will take this offseason a lot more seriously a report to camp next year in tip top shape. The intangibles are still there and he can become great. Crockett just needs to learn how to use his body and run routes a little better and he's going to be something special. Next year he will become one of the leagues best. Boyle has been a pleasant surprise and has exceeded expectations the way I see it. Overall this group is a lot to be excited about and is the last thing I would be complaining about in regards to this team. Yes Aldon has skills and he also has baggage. More trouble than it's worth.