Bengals waive WR Greg Little

[GrimCoconut]

Hey, maybe be can play CB!

[Winchester]

Ohhhhhh.....so now injury is an excuse when it supports your thesis. I thought it was your contention that Perriman was a bust for playing one less game this year due to injury.

Silly me for thinking a supposed Ozzie level wannabe gm, who has dope connections within the organization that feeds him amazing inside information down to DeCosta's five favorite breakfast cereals and that Ozzie goes to bed wearing this gurus name on his boxers. Pardon me for thinking he would spot the hypocrisy that he bemoans to everyone about everyone in his own statements that the hypocrisy is so well represented.

Again I apologize for my outburst....

Lafell is a proven commodity!! Aiken is a joke!! Lafell racked up 1000 yards and 7 TDs last year in 12 games as he was new and it took him time to get acclimated to a very complex system. He did not have a catch in first 4 games. Perriman on the other hand has this mystery injury and the team can not give any timetable for a return. Lafell is on the field within his time allowed to heal. Furthermore I never called perriman a bust cuz of his injury. I call him a bust because he is a mysterious riser because of some obscure pro day hand timed 40. Nobody believes he plays to that speed. Is the injury that bad or are the decision makers ashamed to put this scrub on the field. Only a real Homer would even consider comparing him to Lafell and invest hope in him. Would you like to compare their NFL highlights??!! Lafell is one of the biggest free agent steals of the last 5 years. Perriman well is just another in a long line of ozzies recent early round busts. We will track the 2 nfl wideouts the rest of the season. Your outburst is exagerated and that is what it takes to compare Perriman to Lafell and defend Perriman. Let me guess you believe Perriman will be a #1 WR or at least an elite #2?? Edited November 1, 2015 by Winchester

[RaineV1]

I'd sooner promote a PS receiver than to go dumpster diving for receivers other teams have thrown out. Besides, as bad as the Ravens receivers can be at times, I'd take Aiken, Givens, and Ross over Little.

[Maryland]

I've made fun of Little too much over the years to Browns fans to accept having him on my team. 

[-Truth-]

Lafell is a proven commodity!! Aiken is a joke!! Lafell racked up 1000 yards and 7 TDs last year in 12 games as he was new and it took him time to get acclimated to a very complex system. He did not have a catch in first 4 games. Perriman on the other hand has this mystery injury and the team can not give any timetable for a return. Lafell is on the field within his time allowed to heal. Furthermore I never called perriman a bust cuz of his injury. I call him a bust because he is a mysterious riser because of some obscure pro day hand timed 40. Nobody believes he plays to that speed. Is the injury that bad or are the decision makers ashamed to put this scrub on the field. Only a real Homer would even consider comparing him to Lafell and invest hope in him. Would you like to compare their NFL highlights??!! Lafell is one of the biggest free agent steals of the last 5 years. Perriman well is just another in a long line of ozzies recent early round busts. We will track the 2 nfl wideouts the rest of the season. Your outburst is exagerated and that is what it takes to compare Perriman to Lafell and defend Perriman. Let me guess you believe Perriman will be a #1 WR or at least an elite #2??

 

I certainly understand the frustrations about the injury and the questions that follow given that he's yet to play a snap in the NFL. That being said, the conspiracy theory that Perriman isn't seeing the field because the FO is ashamed to even grant him an opportunity to compete for an active spot is one most laughably absurd, self-invented speculations that I've heard in recent memory. We've lost two WRs to IR who were on the initial 53, one of whom was potentially placed on the list for other reasons. Perriman currently remains on the 53 despite the uncertainty, and your suggestion is what, that we're intentionally keeping Perriman away from the field while intentionally keeping a spot occupied for Perriman on an injury-riddled roster? No part of that idea comes close to making sense. The rise of his draft stock wasn't mysterious for anyone who was actually paying attention to it. I've followed him since January, and I can quote countless analysts and websites that either labeled him as a 1st round talent or had him in the 1st-2nd range prior to the workout. Jimmy Smith went as far as directly implying that Perriman is faster than Torrey Smith after seeing the former in practice and it had nothing to do with stopwatches. You're not a fan of him as a prospect, it's been well-established. That's fine. Everyone deserves to have an opinion on the matter. But to suggest that he's purposefully being held back by the front office because he isn't good enough to even attempt to fight for an active spot as a No.7 WR is miles beyond illogical.

Edited November 1, 2015 by -Truth-

[-Truth-]

I'd sooner promote a PS receiver than to go dumpster diving for receivers other teams have thrown out. Besides, as bad as the Ravens receivers can be at times, I'd take Aiken, Givens, and Ross over Little.

 

I'd also take Ross over Little at this point. I feel like he could use some more playing time.

[RaineV1]

I'd also take Ross over Little at this point. I feel like he could use some more playing time.

I think Ross has the potential to be everything people wanted Camp to be, but without constantly getting injured.

[polynesian15]

Lafell is very tough and fierce after the catch and a terrific blocker I was suggesting sign both. Lafell was cheap

Has anyone ever told you should be an NFL GM? You certainly have the ability to be one. Lafell is playing for the Pats (offense), which always seems to work tremendously well. You can't compare that situation to what he would have been able to do in Baltimore.  

(As fans) Let's just take this awful season right on the chin. The worse the record the better at this point imo.

I imagine a lot of people are getting more and more frustrated by the day, especially Bisciotti.

Thus I think this season will bring forth change that has been needed for some time - defensive coaching etc.

On top of that we'll get to draft at the very top of the draft, which should be an exciting, novel experience.

Rant over 

[Winchester]

I certainly understand the frustrations about the injury and the questions that follow given that he's yet to play a snap in the NFL. That being said, the conspiracy theory that Perriman isn't seeing the field because the FO is ashamed to even grant him an opportunity to compete for an active spot is one most laughably absurd, self-invented speculations that I've heard in recent memory. We've lost two WRs to IR who were on the initial 53, one of whom was potentially placed on the list for other reasons. Perriman currently remains on the 53 despite the uncertainty, and your suggestion is what, that we're intentionally keeping Perriman away from the field while intentionally keeping a spot occupied for Perriman on an injury-riddled roster? No part of that idea comes close to making sense. The rise of his draft stock wasn't mysterious for anyone who was actually paying attention to it. I've followed him since January, and I can quote countless analysts and websites that either labeled him as a 1st round talent or had him in the 1st-2nd range prior to the workout. Jimmy Smith went as far as directly implying that Perriman is faster than Torrey Smith after seeing the former in practice and it had nothing to do with stopwatches. You're not a fan of him as a prospect, it's been well-established. That's fine. Everyone deserves to have an opinion on the matter. But to suggest that he's purposefully being held back by the front office because he isn't good enough to even attempt to fight for an active spot as a No.7 WR is miles beyond illogical.

Sorry dude but I never saw an injury with no timetable for a return. And if he competed for playing time and is the #6 WR with the ravens I think the fo would be quite humiliated.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Winchester

[Winchester]

Has anyone ever told you should be an NFL GM? You certainly have the ability to be one. Lafell is playing for the Pats (offense), which always seems to work tremendously well. You can't compare that situation to what he would have been able to do in Baltimore.  

(As fans) Let's just take this awful season right on the chin. The worse the record the better at this point imo.

I imagine a lot of people are getting more and more frustrated by the day, especially Bisciotti.

Thus I think this season will bring forth change that has been needed for some time - defensive coaching etc.

On top of that we'll get to draft at the very top of the draft, which should be an exciting, novel experience.

Rant over 

Hell yeah, I just blindly think he will do the same for the ravens as he does for the patsies!! SS was supposed to be done. What did he have 500 yards in 2013?? Brandon Lafell wanted out of the panthers!! He in so many words said Cam Newton is overrated. He said Tom Brady allowed him to play fast, hit his breaks at full speed and Tom is going to find him running full speed in stride if he is open. He angered a lot of peeps in Carolina with his statements. But all he said is it is nice to have a rythym QB that allows him to play at full speed and find him in stride if he is open. He did kinda add insult when he praised Jimmy Garappolo's skill to do the same. And remember he could produce far more numbers than he did. However Brady already played 5 yrs with his other guys. Peeps in patsie country are really seriously impressed with Brandons play speed. He outplays his computer numbers and has blown by 4.3 defenders deep. And he is physical and very coordinated adjusting to throws. I see no reason Brandon would not at the very least produce the same or exceed that production with the ravens.

[Winchester]

I'd sooner promote a PS receiver than to go dumpster diving for receivers other teams have thrown out. Besides, as bad as the Ravens receivers can be at times, I'd take Aiken, Givens, and Ross over Little.

Is not that how they already found Givens and Aiken?? Ozzie knows the routine when he needs Receivers. Outside of his round1 busts of course. Ozzie probably suited up in his dumpster gear as soon as he heard Little was released. In the event he would pursue Little.

[polynesian15]

Hell yeah, I just blindly think he will do the same for the ravens as he does for the patsies!! SS was supposed to be done. What did he have 500 yards in 2013?? Brandon Lafell wanted out of the panthers!! He in so many words said Cam Newton is overrated. He said Tom Brady allowed him to play fast, hit his breaks at full speed and Tom is going to find him running full speed in stride if he is open. He angered a lot of peeps in Carolina with his statements. But all he said is it is nice to have a rythym QB that allows him to play at full speed and find him in stride if he is open. He did kinda add insult when he praised Jimmy Garappolo's skill to do the same. And remember he could produce far more numbers than he did. However Brady already played 5 yrs with his other guys. Peeps in patsie country are really seriously impressed with Brandons play speed. He outplays his computer numbers and has blown by 4.3 defenders deep. And he is physical and very coordinated adjusting to throws. I see no reason Brandon would not at the very least produce the same or exceed that production with the ravens.

Aside from the fact that Brady just seems to click with whatever's at his disposal - the same can't really be said of Joe.

Either way, kind of a moot point to be discussing a FA signing from a couple years back. Why don't we look ahead and see how we can battle proof this squad for next season - a few tweaks here and there and we should be right back in it.

[Guest Omerta]

Lafell is a proven commodity!! Aiken is a joke!! Lafell racked up 1000 yards and 7 TDs last year in 12 games as he was new and it took him time to get acclimated to a very complex system. He did not have a catch in first 4 games. Perriman on the other hand has this mystery injury and the team can not give any timetable for a return. Lafell is on the field within his time allowed to heal. Furthermore I never called perriman a bust cuz of his injury. I call him a bust because he is a mysterious riser because of some obscure pro day hand timed 40. Nobody believes he plays to that speed. Is the injury that bad or are the decision makers ashamed to put this scrub on the field. Only a real Homer would even consider comparing him to Lafell and invest hope in him. Would you like to compare their NFL highlights??!! Lafell is one of the biggest free agent steals of the last 5 years. Perriman well is just another in a long line of ozzies recent early round busts. We will track the 2 nfl wideouts the rest of the season. Your outburst is exagerated and that is what it takes to compare Perriman to Lafell and defend Perriman. Let me guess you believe Perriman will be a #1 WR or at least an elite #2??

 

A proven Commodity ? You're joking. First he has never had a 1000 yards, so if you are going to talk about exaggeration dont do it, the hypocrisy is strong in yo. I exaggerated nothing but you exaggerate his career highest total which falls short of 1000, doesn't it. Second off, before that he has never had more than 700 yards....ever. One of the biggest free agent steals of the last 5 years ? You cant be serious.

 

Compare their years when one wont play until late ? How about we compare careers ? Too long for the ol' attention span, I know, so compare years. Perriman may or may not have a better year but at this rate you DON'T know, as much as you think you do, you don't. There is no way to forecast the future. I have noticed though that is how you argue. You use ad hominem arguments, as well as straw man arguments and facts that you get to make up to support your own predetermined conclusions.  Then you try to tell me my argument ? Are you serious, you cant figure out yours, but you're willing to tell me mine. 

 

I just pointed out that I think you are a hypocrite in your standards for WR's in regards to the correlation of injury to performance and you go on some inane tirade about how a guy is a proven commodity even though his top 2 seasons are 953 and 677. Biggest FA steals of the last 5 years. Your arch nemesis Ozzie Newsome got a better one in SSS and Daryl Smith.....

 

And PErriman may or may not be a #1 caliber WR, but we are not going to know until he takes the field are we. Lets try this, I know you wont like this statement but prove me wrong, Perriman is as good as Kevin White. See how easy that was you cant tell me which one will be a better pro because it is their first year and they are both injured. Lafell is actually a joke, nobody though AIken would be anything so he is playing with house money, Lafell has actually been the bust here. 

[rmcjacket23]

One of the few things I enjoy about this season is the lack of posts (much like the offseason, which is riddled with them) of the "hey, this guy got cut because he's no good... surely we should pick him up right?" type posts.

 

Sigh.

 

No, we shouldn't pick him up and no, most likely, we won't pick him up.

[rmcjacket23]

Its funny, but everytime I hear people say "he can't hurt" in regards to signing a player, you're basically acknowledging that he can't help either.

 

So do we want players that help the team or just players who don't hurt the team?

 

If he was good enough to help the team, we'd be talking about his attributes and how he makes this team better. Yet, here, the best attributes anybody is willing to admit is "well, he can't hurt".

 

LOL... maybe that's why we are 1-6. We've got a lot of "can't hurt" players.

[Tenacious Faulker]

A WR who can't catch the ball....Yeah we need more of those guys.

Steve Smith has dropped more balls than Little and is always near the top of the league in drops.  By virtue of continued passes has Smith should he can still be productive.  If drops is such a concern, can we at least replace Aiken or Brown with Little?

 

Drops is not my biggest concer because he's had up and down seasons.  A bigger concern for me is willhe be trouble in the locker room?  He's worn his welcome out on 3 teams.  Can the Ravens be a better fit and help him to reach his potential - even if it's 670 yds and 4TDs.that makes for a better optopn at #2 reciver than what we have AND a great #3 if Aiken steps up.

[Winchester]

A proven Commodity ? You're joking. First he has never had a 1000 yards, so if you are going to talk about exaggeration dont do it, the hypocrisy is strong in yo. I exaggerated nothing but you exaggerate his career highest total which falls short of 1000, doesn't it. Second off, before that he has never had more than 700 yards....ever. One of the biggest free agent steals of the last 5 years ? You cant be serious.

 

Compare their years when one wont play until late ? How about we compare careers ? Too long for the ol' attention span, I know, so compare years. Perriman may or may not have a better year but at this rate you DON'T know, as much as you think you do, you don't. There is no way to forecast the future. I have noticed though that is how you argue. You use ad hominem arguments, as well as straw man arguments and facts that you get to make up to support your own predetermined conclusions.  Then you try to tell me my argument ? Are you serious, you cant figure out yours, but you're willing to tell me mine. 

 

I just pointed out that I think you are a hypocrite in your standards for WR's in regards to the correlation of injury to performance and you go on some inane tirade about how a guy is a proven commodity even though his top 2 seasons are 953 and 677. Biggest FA steals of the last 5 years. Your arch nemesis Ozzie Newsome got a better one in SSS and Daryl Smith.....

 

And PErriman may or may not be a #1 caliber WR, but we are not going to know until he takes the field are we. Lets try this, I know you wont like this statement but prove me wrong, Perriman is as good as Kevin White. See how easy that was you cant tell me which one will be a better pro because it is their first year and they are both injured. Lafell is actually a joke, nobody though AIken would be anything so he is playing with house money, Lafell has actually been the bust here.

A proven Commodity ? You're joking. First he has never had a 1000 yards, so if you are going to talk about exaggeration dont do it, the hypocrisy is strong in yo. I exaggerated nothing but you exaggerate his career highest total which falls short of 1000, doesn't it. Second off, before that he has never had more than 700 yards....ever. One of the biggest free agent steals of the last 5 years ? You cant be serious.

 

Compare their years when one wont play until late ? How about we compare careers ? Too long for the ol' attention span, I know, so compare years. Perriman may or may not have a better year but at this rate you DON'T know, as much as you think you do, you don't. There is no way to forecast the future. I have noticed though that is how you argue. You use ad hominem arguments, as well as straw man arguments and facts that you get to make up to support your own predetermined conclusions.  Then you try to tell me my argument ? Are you serious, you cant figure out yours, but you're willing to tell me mine. 

 

I just pointed out that I think you are a hypocrite in your standards for WR's in regards to the correlation of injury to performance and you go on some inane tirade about how a guy is a proven commodity even though his top 2 seasons are 953 and 677. Biggest FA steals of the last 5 years. Your arch nemesis Ozzie Newsome got a better one in SSS and Daryl Smith.....

 

And PErriman may or may not be a #1 caliber WR, but we are not going to know until he takes the field are we. Lets try this, I know you wont like this statement but prove me wrong, Perriman is as good as Kevin White. See how easy that was you cant tell me which one will be a better pro because it is their first year and they are both injured. Lafell is actually a joke, nobody though AIken would be anything so he is playing with house money, Lafell has actually been the bust here.

The only reason perriman is not a bust yet is because he is yet to play in the NFL. Lafell a bust?? lol say that to his championship ring he played a major role in. Say that to defenses he roasted. Speak of attention spans. lol, like I said Lafell was getting acclimated to a complex system and did not have a catch in first 4 games. As a matter of fact the offense took off once Lafell learned the system. Which means he racked nearly 1000 yards 7 TDs in less than 12 games in a very complex system that was new to him while competing with other Receivers for catches that played 5 seasons with Brady already. I am not discussing this. Aiken is a useless weight to the offense and Perriman I do want to be a viable player but this injury thing makes no sense. There is no timetable for a return so what is Perrimans real problem?? As much as you would like to see Perriman succeed there is no way he is considered better for the ravens than Lafell being signed so cheap. Sanders and Lafell could of given the ravens 2 legit WRs for less than $8mil a year.

[Tenacious Faulker]

This comp pick tunnel vision is nonsense. Ozzie will shy away from a potential breakout pro bowl caliber player for a cheap salary over a comp pick??!! Ridiculous!! To even consider this loser says how bad the WRs are!! The WRs that should have been considered are Sanders and Lafell but they cost comp picks!! Such tunnel vision senile thinking. And I am actually catching myself thinking if this guy will be an upgrade over Brown\Aiken.

 

 

Lafell is very tough and fierce after the catch and a terrific blocker I was suggesting sign both. Lafell was cheap

 

 

 Lafell may be very tough and fierce but he's not  Steve Smith at all. I don't think The Ravens had the cap space at the time to sign both. Keep in mind they not only  signed  Steve Smith that year but re-signed Jacoby Jones as well. The Ravens haven't had alot cap space  and it's no  telling maybe they did have interest in Lafell but Lafell choose to go with The Patriots instead.

All these points make sense together.  LaFell was not goig to be the gritty focus of defenses.  He has skill down field but a double team would wipe him out.  He signed a $9M/3yr deal with the Pats and SSS signed a $10.5M/3yr deal here.  I don't think they had the room to sign both.  By comaprison, Sanders got a $15M/3yr deal which was a no go for Bmore.

 

Now it you're talking "choice" of Panthers receiver to sign it would've depended on need.  LaFell certainly learned from SSS.  I think they felt SSS could inspire and teach the young guys more here.  Doesn;t seem to have worked.  Joe relies too much on SSS and he seems to demand the ball too much.  The only thing I saw that the other receivers learned from SSS is how to spin the ball after a catch.  Still, I don't see LaFell as a gritty teacher nor as a focal piece of an offense.  SSS may have been the best option at the time.

 

The comp pick thing I'm getting more abivalent about.  I thought it was brilliant for a while, but its only brilliant for as long as you have talent from that plan that ends up producing.  I think that's been the case here as the picks have been fair at best.  I would like to see Ozzie more agressive in FA but maybe it's more the cap situation getting out of wahck with $24M this year going to players no longer on the team - the biggest of which are Jacoby, Rice, and Ngata.

[-Truth-]

Sorry dude but I never saw an injury with no timetable for a return. And if he competed for playing time and is the #6 WR with the ravens I think the fo would be quite humiliated.

And I've never seen a team keep a player on the 53 man roster to intentionally keep him on the shelf. He'd be significantly higher than a No.6. I was referring to your entirely fabricated and wholly nonsensical assertion that the front office is preventing Perriman from seeing the field. That's nothing short of pure lunacy.

 

The only reason perriman is not a bust yet is because he is yet to play in the NFL. Lafell a bust?? lol say that to his championship ring he played a major role in. Say that to defenses he roasted. Speak of attention spans. lol, like I said Lafell was getting acclimated to a complex system and did not have a catch in first 4 games. As a matter of fact the offense took off once Lafell learned the system. Which means he racked nearly 1000 yards 7 TDs in less than 12 games in a very complex system that was new to him while competing with other Receivers for catches that played 5 seasons with Brady already. I am not discussing this. Aiken is a useless weight to the offense and Perriman I do want to be a viable player but this injury thing makes no sense. There is no timetable for a return so what is Perrimans real problem?? As much as you would like to see Perriman succeed there is no way he is considered better for the ravens than Lafell being signed so cheap. Sanders and Lafell could of given the ravens 2 legit WRs for less than $8mil a year.

LaFell was a quality signing for New England, no doubt. That being said, there were several errors in the above breakdown. He was immediately thrust into the line up and was targeted 6 times in their first game alone. Will Davis erased him by holding him without a reception on 5 targets when covering LaFell, and LaFell finished the game without a catch. He wasn't targeted in their second game; however, he had a combined 10 receptions between his third and fourth ones, so I'm confused as to where your gathering your data from if you're claiming that he had 0 receptions throughout his first four contests. Your notion that LaFell improved over the course of the season after having issues with grasping the complexity of the scheme is severely challenged by the fact that he had more yards, TDs, forced missed tackles and less drops in his first half of the season, including the first game where he was shut out, meaning he was worse down the stretch. He struggled in his last two games to finish out the season, those being the AFC Championship and the SuperBowl, where he walked away with a combined 8 catches for 57 yards, 1 TD and 2 drops. And though he could very well turn things around, those struggles have continued into this season. He dropped a soul-crushing 5 passes in his just season debut and now has 6 receptions and 6 drops on 15 targets. He hasn't roasted any defenses in nearly a handful of games.

[Winchester]

And I've never seen a team keep a player on the 53 man roster to intentionally keep him on the shelf. He'd be significantly higher than a No.6. I was referring to your entirely fabricated and wholly nonsensical assertion that the front office is preventing Perriman from seeing the field. That's nothing short of pure lunacy. LaFell was a quality signing for New England, no doubt. That being said, there were several errors in the above breakdown. He was immediately thrust into the line up and was targeted 6 times in their first game alone. Will Davis erased him by holding him without a reception on 5 targets when covering LaFell, and LaFell finished the game without a catch. He wasn't targeted in their second game; however, he had a combined 10 receptions between his third and fourth ones, so I'm confused as to where your gathering your data from if you're claiming that he had 0 receptions throughout his first four contests. Your notion that LaFell improved over the course of the season after having issues with grasping the complexity of the scheme is severely challenged by the fact that he had more yards, TDs, forced missed tackles and less drops in his first half of the season, including the first game where he was shut out, meaning he was worse down the stretch. He struggled in his last two games to finish out the season, those being the AFC Championship and the SuperBowl, where he walked away with a combined 8 catches for 57 yards, 1 TD and 2 drops. And though he could very well turn things around, those struggles have continued into this season. He dropped a soul-crushing 5 passes in his just season debut and now has 6 receptions and 6 drops on 15 targets. He hasn't roasted any defenses in nearly a handful of games.

He wasn't erased by Davis. He was playing unsure of himself in a very very complex system. However Tom Brady is so confident and excited about Lafells skills he pulled Lafell aside during practice and held private practices with him to teach him the system properly. He responded with a nice stretch of games. He was injured down the stretch and was actually supposed to be sidelined a couple times but played. He does have some butterfingers lately but he will clean those up. I never said he is more productive the second half of the season. He broke out after Brady privately taught him the systems essentials to get him up to speed. The fact that Brady pulled him to the side for one on one practices kind of shows it took time to grasp a system that several vet WRs failed to do. You can present the stats however you feel. Can you honestly say his slow start of the season was not the result of him not grasping the system firmly?? Do you really need stats comparing season halves to see that it took him several games and weeks of practices to get up to speed within the system?? So I may have mistaken how many catches he pulled in the first 4 games but there should be little doubt he was not up to speed with the system essentials. So most of his production came after the first 4 games and before his injury that actually caused media to guess he would not play on a couple occasions. Which BTW is pretty impressive considering it is still his inaugural season in the system. And Brady already played 5 years with Gronk and Edelman with whom he competed with catches.

Really, what point are you trying to make?? Insist he would not of been a good signing for the ravens?? It was a good move to not try to sign him? He is not worth signing?? The ravens are better off without him?? Because that is what it seems like. Not saying he is all pro but he is a legit NFL WR. And in a less complex scheme like the ravens that takes advantage of his skillset, he could very well exceed those numbers. He could of been more productive if Brady looked his way initially more often. Like I said Brady already had 5 years of chemistry with his other top Receivers Gronk and Edelman. My opinion Joe Cool could very well look his way quite often. As much as we are discussing Lafell. I guessed and said he would be a very good bargain and break out once he got on a team with a rythym QB but Sanders would be a better bargain once he got opportunity to be a featured receiver. And being better than Torrey Smith is such an absurd idea!!

[-Truth-]

He wasn't erased by Davis. He was playing unsure of himself in a very very complex system. However Tom Brady is so confident and excited about Lafells skills he pulled Lafell aside during practice and held private practices with him to teach him the system properly. He responded with a nice stretch of games. He was injured down the stretch and was actually supposed to be sidelined a couple times but played. He does have some butterfingers lately but he will clean those up. I never said he is more productive the second half of the season. He broke out after Brady privately taught him the systems essentials to get him up to speed. The fact that Brady pulled him to the side for one on one practices kind of shows it took time to grasp a system that several vet WRs failed to do. You can present the stats however you feel. Can you honestly say his slow start of the season was not the result of him not grasping the system firmly?? Do you really need stats comparing season halves to see that it took him several games and weeks of practices to get up to speed within the system?? So I may have mistaken how many catches he pulled in the first 4 games but there should be little doubt he was not up to speed with the system essentials. So most of his production came after the first 4 games and before his injury that actually caused media to guess he would not play on a couple occasions. Which BTW is pretty impressive considering it is still his inaugural season in the system. And Brady already played 5 years with Gronk and Edelman with whom he competed with catches.

Really, what point are you trying to make?? Insist he would not of been a good signing for the ravens?? It was a good move to not try to sign him? He is not worth signing?? The ravens are better off without him?? Because that is what it seems like. Not saying he is all pro but he is a legit NFL WR. And in a less complex scheme like the ravens that takes advantage of his skillset, he could very well exceed those numbers. He could of been more productive if Brady looked his way initially more often. Like I said Brady already had 5 years of chemistry with his other top Receivers Gronk and Edelman. My opinion Joe Cool could very well look his way quite often. As much as we are discussing Lafell. I guessed and said he would be a very good bargain and break out once he got on a team with a rythym QB but Sanders would be a better bargain once he got opportunity to be a featured receiver. And being better than Torrey Smith is such an absurd idea!!

I'm puzzled by the confidence you speak with considering the virtual certainty that you didn't watch a second of the game in question. It most certainly is a complex system. That being said, exactly how complex are fly routes? They aren't. LaFell ran the nine on 4 of his 6 targets and found practically no separation while being shadowed by Davis in single coverage. He ran a comeback on which the ball was almost intercepted, and then he couldn't reel in the throw on a deep out. He did state that he felt shell- shocked during the OTAs, where he was consistently cited with dropping his targets. But he showed no issues with grasping the offense in the preseason, where he caught multiple passes in each of the first three games while being featured early on and looking solid in the process. In fact, I can name at least one report from a local program that lauded Brady and LaFell for being in sync during practice in middle of August. Let's further this notion once more. In his own words prior to the regular season, LaFell stated, "I definitely have a good feeling for it. I started to get comfortable with offense probably after the joint practices. After the Redskins I started to feel more comfortable and now we’re just fine-tuning things and getting ready for the game.” That quote came following one of your aforementioned post-practice sessions which involved multiple WRs staying behind. His concern at the beginning of the regular season was with his role, not the the complexity of the offense, as he publicly voiced his frustrations about being used as a blocker after their second game wherein he was used mainly in the running game. His complaints were heard and he responded thereafter with averaging over 80 yards in the third and fourth weeks, including one of his best games of the season. Therefore, your assertion that LaFell was shackled by the complexity of the system for a quarter of the regular season is at best grossly exaggerated. Again, I have no clue where you're gathering your information from. He does deserve to be credited for the shoulder and toe injuries that kept him on injury reports late in the year. His toughness has rarely ever been in question. However, every report I came across at the time stated that he showed no signs of being slowed when suiting up. The articles also cited the Patriots well-known MO, that they continuously mark players with injuries as questionable regardless of the severity. The most recent example would be Dion Lewis, who was a game-time decision this Thursday despite showing no ill-effects and shredding Miami's defense.

That being said, I find it hysterical to suggest that he'd likely exceed his production outside of New England, a team that has one of the best offensive systems by a country mile and is easily among the most notable for consistently maximizing their talents. I could name several examples of skill-players who didn't produce much prior to coming onto the team, and LaFell would be among those names. They contentiously utilized his physical tools by targeting him on in tight coverage, especially on back-shoulder fades, and allowing him to use his 6'2 frame as an advantage. If anything, he'd likely produce less outside of New England. That being said, I'll reiterate the fact that he was a very good signing for the Patriots. However, that doesn't mean he'd be more or even as equally effective on other teams. That aside, there's another aspect of this theory that raises significant questions. Just as with your example of La'el Collins, in your hindsight evaluations, you've willfully ignored the fact that a free agent is likely to choose his destination based on more than just his salary. Nevermind that a free agent signing elsewhere doesn't mean that he wasn't pursued by our FO. If I'm LaFell and I feel that I was just underutilized in Carolina, there is not a single feasible explanation for why I'd choose Baltimore over New England. Here are my choices. I could sign with an offense that struggled mightily in the season prior, who also just signed their potential No.1 WR in Steve Smith Sr., the same player who I was literally just giving my lunch money to. They also have a new OC who has a history of establishing the run to set up the pass, whose previous schemes didn't require utilizing their No.2 WR at a high frequency, and their highest targeted WR from 2013 in Torrey Smith is still on the roster. This means that I'd be no more than third in the pecking order among just the WRs, a duty that will unsurprisingly land just 38 targets in the upcoming season. Or I could choose to roll with one of the best teams in the league, that has one of the best offensive systems in the NFL, that has one of the most pass-happy offenses in football, that has one of the best QBs of all time, that is absolutely starving for an outside WR, and where I'd be among the more targeted WRs in the league, with more than the likes of Mike Evans, Calvin Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Not including where I'd see the 2nd most snaps shy of just Antonio Brown. To be frank, I wouldn't expect for this to be a serious question for any player in that particular situation. I'd be surprised if they even glanced over at the Ravens before choosing the Patriots. With that in mind, to sit there and pretend that LaFell not being brought in falls squarely on the front office staff is about as biased as one could get. I personally feel that LaFell is a solid player, which I've clearly implied by stating in my previous response that he was a quality signing. But the amount of bias in these assessments is very troublesome.

[Winchester]

I'm puzzled by the confidence you speak with considering the virtual certainty that you didn't watch a second of the game in question. It most certainly is a complex system. That being said, exactly how complex are fly routes? They aren't. LaFell ran the nine on 4 of his 6 targets and found practically no separation while being shadowed by Davis in single coverage. He ran a comeback on which the ball was almost intercepted, and then he couldn't reel in the throw on a deep out. He did state that he felt shell- shocked during the OTAs, where he was consistently cited with dropping his targets. But he showed no issues with grasping the offense in the preseason, where he caught multiple passes in each of the first three games while being featured early on and looking solid in the process. In fact, I can name at least one report from a local program that lauded Brady and LaFell for being in sync during practice in middle of August. Let's further this notion once more. In his own words prior to the regular season, LaFell stated, "I definitely have a good feeling for it. I started to get comfortable with offense probably after the joint practices. After the Redskins I started to feel more comfortable and now we’re just fine-tuning things and getting ready for the game.” That quote came following one of your aforementioned post-practice sessions which involved multiple WRs staying behind. His concern at the beginning of the regular season was with his role, not the the complexity of the offense, as he publicly voiced his frustrations about being used as a blocker after their second game wherein he was used mainly in the running game. His complaints were heard and he responded thereafter with averaging over 80 yards in the third and fourth weeks, including one of his best games of the season. Therefore, your assertion that LaFell was shackled by the complexity of the system for a quarter of the regular season is at best grossly exaggerated. Again, I have no clue where you're gathering your information from. He does deserve to be credited for the shoulder and toe injuries that kept him on injury reports late in the year. His toughness has rarely ever been in question. However, every report I came across at the time stated that he showed no signs of being slowed when suiting up. The articles also cited the Patriots well-known MO, that they continuously mark players with injuries as questionable regardless of the severity. The most recent example would be Dion Lewis, who was a game-time decision this Thursday despite showing no ill-effects and shredding Miami's defense.That being said, I find it hysterical to suggest that he'd likely exceed his production outside of New England, a team that has one of the best offensive systems by a country mile and is easily among the most notable for consistently maximizing their talents. I could name several examples of skill-players who didn't produce much prior to coming onto the team, and LaFell would be among those names. They contentiously utilized his physical tools by targeting him on in tight coverage, especially on back-shoulder fades, and allowing him to use his 6'2 frame as an advantage. If anything, he'd likely produce less outside of New England. That being said, I'll reiterate the fact that he was a very good signing for the Patriots. However, that doesn't mean he'd be more or even as equally effective on other teams. That aside, there's another aspect of this theory that raises significant questions. Just as with your example of La'el Collins, in your hindsight evaluations, you've willfully ignored the fact that a free agent is likely to choose his destination based on more than just his salary. Nevermind that a free agent signing elsewhere doesn't mean that he wasn't pursued by our FO. If I'm LaFell and I feel that I was just underutilized in Carolina, there is not a single feasible explanation for why I'd choose Baltimore over New England. Here are my choices. I could sign with an offense that struggled mightily in the season prior, who also just signed their potential No.1 WR in Steve Smith Sr., the same player who I was literally just giving my lunch money to. They also have a new OC who has a history of establishing the run to set up the pass, whose previous schemes didn't require utilizing their No.2 WR at a high frequency, and their highest targeted WR from 2013 in Torrey Smith is still on the roster. This means that I'd be no more than third in the pecking order among just the WRs, a duty that will unsurprisingly land just 38 targets in the upcoming season. Or I could choose to roll with one of the best teams in the league, that has one of the best offensive systems in the NFL, that has one of the most pass-happy offenses in football, that has one of the best QBs of all time, that is absolutely starving for an outside WR, and where I'd be among the more targeted WRs in the league, with more than the likes of Mike Evans, Calvin Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Not including where I'd see the 2nd most snaps shy of just Antonio Brown. To be frank, I wouldn't expect for this to be a serious question for any player in that particular situation. I'd be surprised if they even glanced over at the Ravens before choosing the Patriots. With that in mind, to sit there and pretend that LaFell not being brought in falls squarely on the front office staff is about as biased as one could get. I personally feel that LaFell is a solid player, which I've clearly implied by stating in my previous response that he was a quality signing. But the amount of bias in these assessments is very troublesome.

Some players had their best play with the patsies while others fizzled. Remember Chad?? Lloyd had struggles. Even Watson never did much with the patriots. And with Collins it is called a DRAFT PICK!! PROBLEM SOLVED!! Then he couldn't sign elsewhere. All this rambling and you could not figure out I was referring to they should have drafted Collins?? That is hysterical. I would love to meet you. I bet you are one funny dude. Do you really think he would be more likely to surpass Gronk and Edelman in the pecking order or Torrey?? And with all the $$ Ozzie has thrown around to aging,injured, and overrated players, don't you think if the ravens offered $11mil it just could persuade him?? You seem to take offense at my disdain for Ozzie. Are you ozzie newsome?? Where do you find all this time for watching games?? BTW I do think He would surpass his production with the ravens. The system would likely fit him better and less talent to compete with for catches. And with Brady timing and chemistry is everything. And he already had 5 years of it with Gronk and nerdelman. And Do not forget Nerdelmans wondertwin Amendorka. Iam waaaay to busy to watch all that tape but my is as good as any fans when it comes to spotting talent or a bust. You would be shocked at the early round busts I called and middle round steals after watching a half a game or one highlight clip or CD. Football players are like hot pretty girls. You know it is good when you see it

[ravensdan]

Greg little warrants 3 pages of conversation? Why does he even have a thread. Lol.

[Inqui]

Greg little warrants 3 pages of conversation? Why does he even have a thread. Lol.

That's how bad our WR group is.

[52520Andrew]

Greg little warrants 3 pages of conversation? Why does he even have a thread. Lol.

Great question

[-Truth-]

Some players had their best play with the patsies while others fizzled. Remember Chad?? Lloyd had struggles. Even Watson never did much with the patriots. And with Collins it is called a DRAFT PICK!! PROBLEM SOLVED!! Then he couldn't sign elsewhere. All this rambling and you could not figure out I was referring to they should have drafted Collins?? That is hysterical. I would love to meet you. I bet you are one funny dude. Do you really think he would be more likely to surpass Gronk and Edelman in the pecking order or Torrey?? And with all the $$ Ozzie has thrown around to aging,injured, and overrated players, don't you think if the ravens offered $11mil it just could persuade him?? You seem to take offense at my disdain for Ozzie. Are you ozzie newsome?? Where do you find all this time for watching games?? BTW I do think He would surpass his production with the ravens. The system would likely fit him better and less talent to compete with for catches. And with Brady timing and chemistry is everything. And he already had 5 years of it with Gronk and nerdelman. And Do not forget Nerdelmans wondertwin Amendorka. Iam waaaay to busy to watch all that tape but my is as good as any fans when it comes to spotting talent or a bust. You would be shocked at the early round busts I called and middle round steals after watching a half a game or one highlight clip or CD. Football players are like hot pretty girls. You know it is good when you see it

Chad Johnson was a shell of his former self after dropping off significantly on tape from 2010 to 2011, regressing specifically with creating separation and avoiding drops, which led to his departure from Cincinnati via trade. He was past his prime before even joining New England. Lloyd played his last three seasons in San Francisco, New England and St. Louis, respectively. He averaged a mere 488.5 yards on 32.5 receptions and 3 TDs in the 2 of those 3 campaigns. The stint with the Patriots came in the middle of the aforementioned two, where Lloyd he more than doubled his production from the surrounding seasons on route to a successful campaign. So in his 11th season at age 32, Lloyd finishes with 1,013 yards on 86 receptions and 5 TDs as their X receiver in 18 games, and he allegedly struggles. In his 5th season at age 27, LaFell finishes with 1,072 yards on 87 catches with 8 TDs in 19 games, and he's roasting defenses. There are clearly no inconsistencies and no outright bias whatsoever. The Watson example would be relevant if he wasn't their leading TE in almost every season prior to the drafting of Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez despite starting an average of just 9 games in every season. It's also negated by the fact their scheme mainly deployed a Y-TE heavily leaned on as a blocker, a recipe for success since it was Watson's best attribute. In the only season where he was counted on in the passing game, he finished as the team's second leading receiver while on pace for almost 800 yards, a mark that has a chance to finally eclipse this season after almost a decade while in his mid-thirties. So that's another poor example. And the likes of Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Dion Lewis, Danny Woodhead and Brandon LaFell among others, who were afterthoughts before coming to New England from cities where their talents were underutilized, undoubtedly outweigh their counterparts on the scale.

Draft Collins, of course. How did that idea fail to cross my mind? Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that Collins unsuccessfully attempted to withdraw from the 2015 NFL Draft, and that after being forced to remain in the 2015 class, his agents instructed teams that he would hold out and enter next year's pool if he was drafted, which would be the equivalence of letting a selection expire and never choosing a prospect. Don't worry, this information was only available to those who tuned into the Draft and followed the events that transpired prior to the occasion. Nevermind that it would include competing Steve Smith Sr. and Torrey Smith instead of just Torrey Smith and that you're more likely to see sets with two WRs and a TE than ones with three WRs. Let's forget that you're glossing over the fact that our No.2 and No.3 WRs combined for less targets than LaFell alone saw last season. He must've journeyed into the situation blindly without having any relatable numbers to use as projections, right? I mean there's no way that he could've looked at the fact that Lloyd was one of the most targeted WRs in the entire league at the same exact position he'd be filling despite Wes Welker coming in 3rd in the category with almost 200 targets alone and Rob Gronkowski being an established presence. It's not like he could've been turned off by the prospect of attempting to establish career numbers by joining a traditionally run-first offense who hasn't had their second leading WR break past 918 yards in almost 20 years. He and his representatives also couldn't have been aware of the fact that Kevin Walters averaged roughly 650 receiving yards in 6 consecutive years as Gary Kubiak's starting No.2. Why join one of the league's most prolific passing offenses when you can earn two extra million on top of the nine you're already receiving and continue to dwell in pedestrian totals? Julian Edelman was a converted quarterback. That he has come close to resembling a starting WR has been nothing short of a miracle given the history of the conversion, so the results were unsurprisingly delayed. You're correct, however. It typically takes several years for Brady to develop timing with new receivers. Brandon Lloyd almost doubles his production from the two seasons prior during his first season in New England. Wes Welker hauls in 112 receptions during his first season, breaking the Patriots' all-time record. Randy Moss hauls in 23 touchdowns during his first season, breaking the NFL all-time record. Rob Gronkowski explodes in the second half of his rookie campaign and then breaks the NFL all-time TE receiving yard record with 1,357 in just his second season in New England. But yes, Edelman is the best example of them all on how long it takes to develop chemistry with Brady. Silly me.

I doubt the quip about your talent evaluations is a general consensus. I put forth roughly 30 minutes to an hour in watching tape. It's not a difficult process, nor is it a lengthy one. A single snap takes merely several seconds to observe and each play is separated via NFL Game Pass. On average, I'm able to review every target of a starting WR's entire season in under 20 minutes, which isn't even necessary to have a firm idea of his performance. You've posted nearly a handful of times per day with multiple walls of text at various hours of the day, so I have severe doubts that your schedule couldn't make room for an extra 10-20 minutes to watch the content of the topics you're so confidently arguing about. This may be a daring strategy, but I prefer to actually watch players when evaluating them instead of skimming a handful of plays and foreshadowing their futures simply because I've been correct on numerous occasions in the past. It honestly sounds as if you genuinely believe that you're one of the only active members to accomplish such a feat. If so, bravo. There's power in confidence, although to a certain degree. I have read that narcissism is hereditary, however, so it's all about taking the good with the bad.

Edited November 3, 2015 by -Truth-

[Winchester]

Chad Johnson was a shell of his former self after dropping off significantly on tape from 2010 to 2011, regressing specifically with creating separation and avoiding drops, which led to his departure from Cincinnati via trade. He was past his prime before even joining New England. Lloyd played his last three seasons in San Francisco, New England and St. Louis, respectively. He averaged a mere 488.5 yards on 32.5 receptions and 3 TDs in the 2 of those 3 campaigns. The stint with the Patriots came in the middle of the aforementioned two, where Lloyd he more than doubled his production from the surrounding seasons on route to a successful campaign. So in his 11th season at age 32, Lloyd finishes with 1,013 yards on 86 receptions and 5 TDs as their X receiver in 18 games, and he allegedly struggles. In his 5th season at age 27, LaFell finishes with 1,072 yards on 87 catches with 8 TDs in 19 games, and he's roasting defenses. There are clearly no inconsistencies and no outright bias whatsoever. The Watson example would be relevant if he wasn't their leading TE in almost every season prior to the drafting of Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez despite starting an average of just 9 games in every season. It's also negated by the fact their scheme mainly deployed a Y-TE heavily leaned on as a blocker, a recipe for success since it was Watson's best attribute. In the only season where he was counted on in the passing game, he finished as the team's second leading receiver while on pace for almost 800 yards, a mark that has a chance to finally eclipse this season after almost a decade while in his mid-thirties. So that's another poor example. And the likes of Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Dion Lewis, Danny Woodhead and Brandon LaFell among others, who were afterthoughts before coming to New England from cities where their talents were underutilized, undoubtedly outweigh their counterparts on the scale.Draft Collins, of course. How did that idea fail to cross my mind? Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that Collins unsuccessfully attempted to withdraw from the 2015 NFL Draft, and that after being forced to remain in the 2015 class, his agents instructed teams that he would hold out and enter next year's pool if he was drafted, which would be the equivalence of letting a selection expire and never choosing a prospect. Don't worry, this information was only available to those who tuned into the Draft and followed the events that transpired prior to the occasion. Nevermind that it would include competing Steve Smith Sr. and Torrey Smith instead of just Torrey Smith and that you're more likely to see sets with two WRs and a TE than ones with three WRs. Let's forget that you're glossing over the fact that our No.2 and No.3 WRs combined for less targets than LaFell alone saw last season. He must've journeyed into the situation blindly without having any relatable numbers to use as projections, right? I mean there's no way that he could've looked at the fact that Lloyd was one of the most targeted WRs in the entire league at the same exact position he'd be filling despite Wes Welker coming in 3rd in the category with almost 200 targets alone and Rob Gronkowski being an established presence. It's not like he could've been turned off by the prospect of attempting to establish career numbers by joining a traditionally run-first offense who hasn't had their second leading WR break past 918 yards in almost 20 years. He and his representatives also couldn't have been aware of the fact that Kevin Walters averaged roughly 650 receiving yards in 6 consecutive years as Gary Kubiak's starting No.2. Why join one of the league's most prolific passing offenses when you can earn two extra million on top of the nine you're already receiving and continue to dwell in pedestrian totals? Julian Edelman was a converted quarterback. That he has come close to resembling a starting WR has been nothing short of a miracle given the history of the conversion, so the results were unsurprisingly delayed. You're correct, however. It typically takes several years for Brady to develop timing with new receivers. Brandon Lloyd almost doubles his production from the two seasons prior during his first season in New England. Wes Welker hauls in 112 receptions during his first season, breaking the Patriots' all-time record. Randy Moss hauls in 23 touchdowns during his first season, breaking the NFL all-time record. Rob Gronkowski explodes in the second half of his rookie campaign and then breaks the NFL all-time TE receiving yard record with 1,357 in just his second season in New England. But yes, Edelman is the best example of them all on how long it takes to develop chemistry with Brady. Silly me.I doubt the quip about your talent evaluations is a general consensus. I put forth roughly 30 minutes to an hour in watching tape. It's not a difficult process, nor is it a lengthy one. A single snap takes merely several seconds to observe and each play is separated via NFL Game Pass. On average, I'm able to review every target of a starting WR's entire season in under 20 minutes, which isn't even necessary to have a firm idea of his performance. You've posted nearly a handful of times per day with multiple walls of text at various hours of the day, so I have severe doubts that your schedule couldn't make room for an extra 10-20 minutes to watch the content of the topics you're so confidently arguing about. This may be a daring strategy, but I prefer to actually watch players when evaluating them instead of skimming a handful of plays and foreshadowing their futures simply because I've been correct on numerous occasions in the past. It honestly sounds as if you genuinely believe that you're one of the only active members to accomplish such a feat. If so, bravo. There's power in confidence, although to a certain degree. I have read that narcissism is hereditary, however, so it's all about taking the good with the bad.

So numbers is exactly what a players floor or ceiling is?? Lloyd was virtually phased out until Injuries forced Brady to go to him often. There are more are various factors that must be considered when deciding if that player will be a highly respected entity in the league. And with Collins come on a round 6-7 pick used in the event he would play would really hurt huh?? Or how about far more $$ than Dallas offered?? Moss ran like 5 routes, that is partially why he was traded. The offense was slightly different in 2007 anyways. Chads own admission he never caught on to the system. All the clips and CDs you watch and you did not see Gronk and Wes having to tell him where to line up?? The fact that Brady pulled Brandon to the side for private lessons on the offenses essentials shows he was struggling regardless what he said. Do you honestly believe the same offense is run in preseason?? Garappolo played majority of the preseason because the wanted a handle on if he is ready to be the backup. If Gronk or Edelman went down, you honestly do not think Lafells stats will spike any?? SERIOUSLY??!! IF watch that stretch of games after his private practices with Tom and before he is injured I think you should get a handle on how productive he could be. Yes I do think an extra $2-3mil could have persuaded him. I like you to invite you to tailgate with myself and friends. Do not take my word for anything. Most of the time I multi task when posting and that is even when I get a break in my schedule. That is why I post for several weeks to a month then take a several month loa. I would call 2 jobs,4-5 gym workouts a week, time with gf and nephews and writing and acting for a play and starting an internet business in a couple weeks quite busy. Wouldn't you?? In which I will be to busy to post again for a while. Narcissistic you call me?? Why?? Because I actually post a pic without shame of myself on my profile?? Oh that is right Maxx Williams is in reasonably good shape for a 21 yr old NFL TE and i am in "reasonably good shape" for a non athlete!! lol!! The fact you shamelessly deny my physique is amazing for athlete or non athlete shows you are a little bias toward anything I say. Or would jealous be more accurate?? Assuming narcissism?? Must be on the forefront of your mind. Not narcissistic in any sense but if you are going to bring it up and imply it.... This Lafell debate has gone on to long. Lets call it what it is. You are obviously pro Ozzie Newsome. You defend every move he makes or does not make. Wasted to much time on this subject. We do not agree on this matter.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Winchester

[-Truth-]

So numbers is exactly what a players floor or ceiling is?? Lloyd was virtually phased out until Injuries forced Brady to go to him often. There are more are various factors that must be considered when deciding if that player will be a highly respected entity in the league. And with Collins come on a round 6-7 pick used in the event he would play would really hurt huh?? Or how about far more $$ than Dallas offered?? Moss ran like 5 routes, that is partially why he was traded. The offense was slightly different in 2007 anyways. Chads own admission he never caught on to the system. All the clips and CDs you watch and you did not see Gronk and Wes having to tell him where to line up?? The fact that Brady pulled Brandon to the side for private lessons on the offenses essentials shows he was struggling regardless what he said. Do you honestly believe the same offense is run in preseason?? Garappolo played majority of the preseason because the wanted a handle on if he is ready to be the backup. If Gronk or Edelman went down, you honestly do not think Lafells stats will spike any?? SERIOUSLY??!! IF watch that stretch of games after his private practices with Tom and before he is injured I think you should get a handle on how productive he could be. Yes I do think an extra $2-3mil could have persuaded him. I like you to invite you to tailgate with myself and friends. Do not take my word for anything. Most of the time I multi task when posting and that is even when I get a break in my schedule. That is why I post for several weeks to a month then take a several month loa. I would call 2 jobs,4-5 gym workouts a week, time with gf and nephews and writing and acting for a play and starting an internet business in a couple weeks quite busy. Wouldn't you?? In which I will be to busy to post again for a while. Narcissistic you call me?? Why?? Because I actually post a pic without shame of myself on my profile?? Oh that is right Maxx Williams is in reasonably good shape for a 21 yr old NFL TE and i am in "reasonably good shape" for a non athlete!! lol!! The fact you shamelessly deny my physique is amazing for athlete or non athlete shows you are a little bias toward anything I say. Or would jealous be more accurate?? Assuming narcissism?? Must be on the forefront of your mind. Not narcissistic in any sense but if you are going to bring it up and imply it.... This Lafell debate has gone on to long. Lets call it what it is. You are obviously pro Ozzie Newsome. You defend every move he makes or does not make. Wasted to much time on this subject. We do not agree on this matter.

This is grand. Observing a sprinkle of highlight plays is enough to offer precise foreshadowing of players' entire careers; but evaluating the tendencies of a specific position on an offense returning 7 of their 10 other starters from the examined campaign while under the same OC is irrelevant and unreliable. I'm sure that it must've been a pure coincidence that LaFell was among the more targeted WRs in the NFL in 2014 just as Lloyd was in 2012. Speaking of which, let's examine yet another one of your well-supported counterpoints. Welker and Gronkowski are among the league leaders in targets at their positions through the first six games of the 2012 season. Despite the phenomenon, Lloyd averages a whopping 10 targets per game through the same exact span and yet is proclaimed to have been virtually phased out until the injuries arrived. Is there any research being conducted here or are we down to dart throws and picking outcomes out of a hat? I agree, Moss was clearly capable of better production in Oakland, and even Moss himself alluded to a lack of motivation playing a part in his final campaign with the Raiders. That being said, it does absolutely nothing to dispel the fact that he was able to immediately sync with Tom Brady en route to a dominant and historical performance in his very first season, which was a single of numerous examples that debunked your assertion about chemistry several times over. Did you follow Johnson during his career as a Bengal? He was notorious for running his own routes and ignoring the intended designs as he saw fit, which continuously frustrated Carson Palmer. It was tolerated when Johnson was one of the most gifted and productive WRs, but it was no longer deemed acceptable after the decline and he was unceremoniously shipped away. Of course he couldn't grasp the Patriots' offensive scheme. I still recall reading articles describing scenarios when Johnson would be asked to run to a single side and he'd immediately run the route in the opposite direction. That he was unable to stick in New England or any city thereafter did not come as a surprise to those familiar with his troublesome football IQ. If that's your best example against the plethora of players I've named who outright dominated in their first seasons, then this debate was finished several posts ago. The fact that you continue referring to watching practices considering that you haven't even watched most of the games being referred to simply adds to the comedy. Tom Brady held sessions with several WRs after practice, not just LaFell. LaFell was brutally honest with the public about being far behind a month prior and even stated that he was "frustrated as hell" with his responsibilities as a blocker. None of his comments even implied a sense of secrecy, so when he states his progress, I am more than content to take his word for it instead of blindly assuming otherwise. The offenses are general vanilla in the preseason, yes. But LaFell caught as many passes from Brady as he did any other QB, so that's yet another dismissed fallacy. Those passes came in the dress rehearsal against Carolina, where they showed little restraint with both Brady and LaFell in the line up as far as the play-calling was concerned. Your continued assertion about his alleged struggles has been extinguished on numerous occasions. Spike any? Yes, they'd likely see some increases. Please attempt to wrap your head around the fact that LaFell received the 2nd most snaps among all WRs and was among the most targeted WRs while having Edelman and Gronkowski on the field. It's rather difficult to project dramatic growths in numbers when your usage is already hovering among the very top. And with Gronkowski or Edelman off the field, you don't suppose that the opposing defenses would be able to key in on LaFell, thereby limiting his impact? That's where the good news is, however. We don't have to suppose. Both Gronkowski and Edelman missed a considerable amount of time in the first half of the season. Gronkowski alone missed practically 40% of the snaps in that span. How did LaFell respond? By averaging 57.6 yards on under 4 receptions. That is in comparison to the 55.5 yards he averaged on 5 receptions throughout the rest of the season. Edelman missed the last two games of the regular season entirely. In fact, both Edelman and Gronkowski were absent for week 17. How does LaFell respond? By failing to top 70 yards in either contest and scoring a grand total of 0 times despite Tom Brady starting for the majority of those games. What a tremendous upsurge in production.

Far more money than Dallas? Are you aware of how undrafted free agency works? Allow me to add a quote to encapsulate the process. "The deal is worth a fully guaranteed $1.7 million, an unprecedented number for a player who was not selected in the draft and the max that Collins could have been offered." Let's further the notion. Had Collins been drafted near his projection, he would've averaged a higher salary per season than the totality of his current deal, nevermind the amount he would've been forced to sign for as a late round selection. His choices from thereon would be to be shackled by a minuscule contract for nearly half a decade despite being a first round talent or simply sit out for a single season and quadruple the total sum of his entire contract at the very least in next year's pool. If a player's salary is supposedly such a high priority that a few million are able to completely override any legitimate projected limitations, he wouldn't have even considered considering at option A. I understand that you're either unwilling or incapable of comprehending the fact that there are other aspects at play when a player chooses their destination, but the phenomenon will continue to occur regardless of anyone willfully ignoring it. Michael Bennett turned down a hefty contract from Chicago for a smaller salary to stay put in Seattle. Randall Cobb left money on the table when turning down Oakland in favor of Green Bay. Simply throwing money at a player doesn't come close to guaranteeing their attendance. We have an active PM where I mentioned my doubts about Matt Elam and Courtney Upshaw when they were selected. I was high on numerous players who I hoped we'd land but didn't, i.e. Alshon Jeffrey and Keenan Allen. I avoid judging every scenario in complete hindsight, so I'm not nearly as unbearably and unreasonably harsh, but I've only commented on two draftees and one potential signing that I can recall. Yet this is somehow classified as defending every move. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised to see another humorous hyperbole. What a coincidence. I too have two jobs, regularly attend the gym, spend time with my long-term girlfriend, spend time with my nephew as well as attending his baseball and basketball leagues, and work on an album while covering literally all of my mother's living expenses and helping out each of my siblings financially among othe things. The difference is that I don't automatically assume that others here don't have active lifestyles just because they don't brag about their lives to others or because they take the time to thoroughly research the topics of discussion instead of blurting out mind-numbing and unsupported ideas that can be dispelled at a moment's notice. An amazing physique for an athlete. Honestly, I should've waited until the last sentence to make mention of the bold exaggerations. It's your avatar, do with it what you wish. I just found it amusing to observe a member post a revealing icon on anything other than a bodybuilding forum and actually assume that it alone gave them some sense of credibility among the members of said forum as if the others are somehow hiding their bodies out of shame. I don't know if you know what narcissism is. With everything you've implied thus far during the re-birth, it sounds as if you genuinely believe that every member here sits behind their screens throughout their days while being allergic to sun light. It's a common yet sad misconception. You've also confused jealousy with condolence. And I appreciate the offer, I sincerely do. But it's been tough to swallow the lapses in logic behind these posts in singular form. We've vehemently disagreed on practically every issue thus far. If the discussions between those who you speak about sports to are anything like this, an entire flock could give me an aneurysm.

Edited November 5, 2015 by -Truth-