Lardarius Webb (Contract)

[BmoreBird22]

.... So back to Webb, he's our best corner this year, and has shown constant improvement in confidence. He gets drilled in here more than he should, honestly. He could be over paid right now, but he's not the only one. And if you think our secondary looks bad now.. Go ahead and take Webb out of the game.

If Jimmy, Webb, and Suggs never got injured, this would be one of the most lethal defenses in the NFL

[Guest]

Arguably, Webb was the best corner in the league that pre contract year.  Going on memory, but I don't believe he gave up a score.

 

Signing a guy coming off an injury is risky business, but am not going to be overly critical of that with Webb. Second time around with Pitta, you might begin the critique, especially with so many other missteps.

 

Where it stands with Webb now is that he is not a bracket or range CB.  There is no guess point as to where he stands.  For those have their slide ruler out and place him in a range quit pretending and stop dissembling. 

 

Webb is our best corner, quit wasting space.

His contract - as it stands now given his current level of play - definitely hurts. But those bashing the FO for signing him are suffering from some selective memory.

 

Yes, he did suffer an ACL tear before the contract, but he played very well that season leading into his contract. Many said he very well could be considered a pro-bowl player. Everyone thought the injury was behind him and he didn't really display any chronic inability to stay on the field. People were in a panic because they thought that, even with a 1st round tender, someone (particularly the Pats) were going to swoop in and grab him. 

 

We signed him and everyone was happy.

 

Then came the second ACL tear, and he's not been right since. Now, everyone is cranky. 

 

The people complaining about what fools we have in the FO because of this contract ... I'd love to see what messages they were posting at the time ... (pay the man!). Again - selective memory. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Danny D

[usmccharles]

If Jimmy, Webb, and Suggs never got injured, this would be one of the most lethal defenses in the NFL

Id say top ten easily.  We looked awesome against Denever week one, but to play devil's advocate, their offense hasnt exactly looked great by any means

[Sami84]

i don't know how in a sport you can be proclaimed elite or top 3 in a position after a season or in some cases 6 games..( jimmy smith)

 

 

you need at least 2 full seasons of elite play before handing out contracts that are worthy of the word..

 

webb had 1

 

jimmy had 6 games..

 

its time for the FO to stop overreacting to 1 good season.

 

..well?

[rmcjacket23]

i don't know how in a sport you can be proclaimed elite or top 3 in a position after a season or in some cases 6 games..( jimmy smith)

 

 

you need at least 2 full seasons of elite play before handing out contracts that are worthy of the word..

 

webb had 1

 

jimmy had 6 games..

 

its time for the FO to stop overreacting to 1 good season.

 

..well?

So who's playing corner for us if we didn't extend Jimmy?

 

Chykie Brown?

 

Fans need to immediately stop thinking that better players grow on trees. It CAN be worse than it is now.

Edited October 30, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[Sami84]

So who's playing corner for us if we didn't extend Jimmy?

 

Chykie Brown?

 

Fans need to immediately stop thinking that better players grow on trees. It CAN be worse than it is now.

 

 

don't pay him what he hasn't earned and draft better.

[DenverRaven]

don't pay him what he hasn't earned and draft better.

 

So, then what do you suggest we do? Continue the carousel of corners, never allowing any to get comfortable with the team/system? Keep picking up scraps off the street? We don't have the luxury of drafting top tier players (we will this year) ... and even the best prospects don't always pan out. CB is tough position to learn at the NFL level, and expecting your draft picks to come in and be amazing is just as much of a crap shoot as paying someone who can play at the NFL level, who may get injured.

 

You could draft the best prospect in the world, and he could be a bust, or have a terrible injury before even playing a snap.

 

Jimmy is still injured, so I'm not going to throw him under the bus like Pees did. If we don't lock-up Jimmy, someone else does. Look at the contract Maxwell "earned."

[rmcjacket23]

don't pay him what he hasn't earned and draft better.

I'd strongly suggest you take a look at the corners being drafted recently. Its a total crapshoot. There's "can't miss" guys going in the top 10 that are horrendous players. They, like better players, aren't growing on trees.

 

He's paid what his employer thinks he's worth. That's true for 100% of all players. Its not up to fans to decide their value (thankfully).

[BmoreBird22]

don't pay him what he hasn't earned and draft better.

Contracts are handed out based on how a player is projected to play over the course of that contract

[-Truth-]

Those links say what I was suggesting. He pretty much gained position off the snap against linemen void of recovery speed and bad technique. But he seems to struggle often against more technically sound taller offensive tackles. He was a non factor in the playoff game. And Veldheer pretty much shut him out. Dumervil is still effective at times. But next year he is a year older. And come to think of it, I was watching him and Veldheer in quarter4. And it just seems like when the ravens needed pressure most, Dumervil is a non factor and I saw him struggle. He may have a 10 sack year next year or he could lose another step. It may be a good idea to see what a contending team that needs edge rush help will offer for him. Next year is his eleventh season.

 

They most certainly do not. In, fact they convey the exact opposite. I presented plays exclusively from two games wherein 80% of his rushes came from the left side. Had these two contests contained the majority of his production, you'd have a point. But they account for a fraction of his disruptions thus far. I agree in that he didn't face the most athletic of OTs against Cincinnati and Arizona, but it doesn't diminish the fact that he was consistently successful on outside rushes. None of the eleven plays involved counter moves because his quickness on the get-off allowed him to bend around the edge and use leverage on his way to the signal caller. He dusted Andre Smith Jr. so quickly on the second play that Smith Jr. actually turned towards the opposite direction in order to attempt to locate him. Almost all of those hurries came roughly 3 seconds or less prior to the release. That is far from eventual, and he certainly doesn't come remotely close to struggling in one on one scenarios.

 

Veldheer was engaged with Dumervil on a mere 7 snaps. The two players barely saw each other. One of those was a delayed rush where he the ball was thrown moments after Dumervil begun moving forward. Veldheer gave up two pressures the entire night, and both were to Dumervil. On one, he was within arms reach of Carson Palmer and forced Palmer to move to the opposite side, and on the other, he bull-rushed Veldheer directly into Palmer. Statistically speaking, on a per snap basis, that's upper tier production, so the notion that he was shut out against Veldheer isn't accurate. In either case, had he struggled, why would he be judged by his production on the right side? On average, 3-4 LOLBs who are counted on as pass rushers spend at least 75% of their snaps on the left side. For example, five of the top rushers at LOLB spent just under 90% staying home in all of 2014, so consistently sustaining pressure against athletic LTs isn't necessary if he's taking care of business against RTs. It should be noted that he's done well on the right side as well this season. Which key situations are you referring to? All of his sacks have come on 3rd down, one of which was returned for a score in a close game. Against Arizona alone, most of his production came in the 3rd and 4th quarters, including the late drives. Through the first seven games, he's 7th in pass rushing productivity per snap, tied with Justin Houston. I'd obviously take Houston over Dumervil, as well as nearly every OLB especially considering that he was one of my favorite prospects, but it's an impressive feat nonetheless. Unless you have specific stretches in mind to offer as examples where we needed pressure and Dumervil was consistently nowhere to be found, it's an unsupported statement. Sacks are by no means the sole indication of production, but you definitely have a point about his age. He could very well fall off next season, and unfortunately at that age, the drop off typically isn't gradual. That being said, though it's fair to wonder about the future, we have nobody on the roster who comes close to his production on the outside as far as this season goes, so placing him in trade conversations at this point is premature. Webb and Co. have had a tough time as it is on the back-end. See? I turned it around and mentioned Webb to keep this at least somewhat thread relevant. That's for you, CalvinSmoke.

Edited October 30, 2015 by -Truth-

[PurpleCity5]

don't pay him what he hasn't earned and draft better.

Its not that easy. I thought we learned this lesson from Corey Graham. We feel the pain of letting him go and realize just how poor of a choice that was. Good CBs are very hard to find honestly. Webb was playing out of this world in 2011, he was on another planet IMO. He was playing like a top 5 CB and very often when you have a guy playing that well then you keep him.

 

There was plenty of things he did to earn that contract. 

 

• Intercept 5 passes in the regular season
• Intercept three more in the postseason, adding it up to 8 INTs overall and probably being the biggest reason why we beat Houston in the Div. round
• The only starting CB at the time to never allow a TD
• Lockdown opposing teams #1 WRs 
• Become an effective run stopper. 
• Not only being stout in Man-Coverage but Zone as well
• become one of the best deep pass defenders in the league. 

One could make the argument that in 2011, the best CB aside from Darrell Revis was Lardarius Webb. He was genius that year and rightfully earned that contract.

 

Now everything up to this point is pure hindsight. When the F.O signed Webb they have no expectations he would tear his ACL, none. Not only that but lets not forget that with each game and season Webb packs on, he increases his value further and further. If we waited the way poeople thought we shouldn've and lets hypothesis he doesn't tear his ACL, then he probably would net a deal of $70M for 5 Years

[GrimCoconut]

So what did we learn:

1. Jimmy Smith is a bum and doesn't deserve his contract.

2. Webb is also a bum who didn't deserve his contract.

3. If a guy shows he can produce for two years, only then should we extend them for what they'll likely get on the open market.

All this and more from the one who also said that we should've kept McPhee. Ironically, McPhee hasn't consistently performed like he has recently until last year. McPhee also has an injury history and I'm sure if we extended him and he got hurt because of his knees people would call him a bust and blame Ozzie for not having a crystal ball.

Smh you can't use one argument for one situation and then complain about that same argument in another. That doesn't work and it's subjective and not objective.

[Guest]

Not sure who you are referring to coconut, because you didn't quote your source.

 

Skimming the posts in the thread, can't find a contention that one poster, as implied, stated both J. Smith and Webb are bums and that extensions should only be awarded on sustained back to back seasons.

 

Regarding McPhee, all I can tell you is he is tearing it up in Chicago. I know because it's in the paper and on radio often.

 

If he had more team around him it could be stellar. He's a bull in a china shop.

 

So what did we learn:

1. Jimmy Smith is a bum and doesn't deserve his contract.
2. Webb is also a bum who didn't deserve his contract.
3. If a guy shows he can produce for two years, only then should we extend them for what they'll likely get on the open market.

All this and more from the one who also said that we should've kept McPhee. Ironically, McPhee hasn't consistently performed like he has recently until last year. McPhee also has an injury history and I'm sure if we extended him and he got hurt because of his knees people would call him a bust and blame Ozzie for not having a crystal ball.

Smh you can't use one argument for one situation and then complain about that same argument in another. That doesn't work and it's subjective and not objective.

[GrimCoconut]

Not sure who you are referring to coconut, because you didn't quote your source.

Skimming the posts in the thread, can't find a contention that one poster, as implied, stated both J. Smith and Webb are bums and that extensions should only be awarded on sustained back to back seasons.

Regarding McPhee, all I can tell you is he is tearing it up in Chicago. I know because it's in the paper and on radio often.

If he had more team around him it could be stellar. He's a bull in a china shop.

The use of "bums" was an intentional exaggeration.

i don't know how in a sport you can be proclaimed elite or top 3 in a position after a season or in some cases 6 games..( jimmy smith)

you need at least 2 full seasons of elite play before handing out contracts that are worthy of the word..

webb had 1

jimmy had 6 games..

its time for the FO to stop overreacting to 1 good season.

..well?

[1/28/01]

Sorry, I've been absent form this thread since I was taking a shirtless pic for my avatar on a (mostly) men's football forum.

[K-Dog]

Sorry, I've been absent form this thread since I was taking a shirtless pic for my avatar on a (mostly) men's football forum.

Glad I am not the only one to notice that.

[Purple_ICE 81]

At this point in his career Webb is nothing more than a leaky #3, or #4 CB who makes plays every once in a blue moon. He has clearly lost a step since being that beast we all remember who would be worth the big $, but he just lost it. I lost count on the number of surgeries and injuries he went through. Dude has trouble covering at this point, I want to say he flatout CANT cover but you still see him make plays every now and again. But for the most part he's either getting burned or getting penalized for holding or PI.

I feel like CB/DB has been a growing need for the longest time. We desperately need to add talent to our secondary this off season.