Lardarius Webb (Contract)

[redlobster]

Webb's contract at the time was inline with what he deserved based off of his play. I remember being happy that he could slide down into the nickel and play on guys like wes welker.

 

 

I feel like he is a 60 /40 cut candidate.

 

His cap cost and savings from cutting him make him low hanging fruit (and his injury history) but the secondary situation helps his leverage.

Edited October 29, 2015 by redlobster

[balfan23]

Webb's contract at the time was inline with what he deserved based off of his play. I remember being happy that he could slide down into the nickel and play on guys like wes welker.

 

 

I feel like he is a 60 /40 cut candidate.

 

His cap cost and savings from cutting him make him low hanging fruit (and his injury history) but the secondary situation helps his leverage.

I assume that means you think there is a 60% chance of him getting cut. I think at this moment it could be higher.

 

However, your point on our secondary situation does help him and also, I know everyone already has their narrative written on the 2015 season, but there are still 9 games left to be played. 

 

If Webb stays healthy and plays reasonably well, the odds of his being cut can still go down. However, those are two massive "Ifs". 

 

We are going to need cap space and he's eating a lot of it. Even if he looks good finishing out, it will be hard to view him as a solid starting option next year, given his injury history. And given his cap hit, that's really, really hurting the team. 

[redlobster]

I assume that means you think there is a 60% chance of him getting cut. I think at this moment it could be higher.

 

However, your point on our secondary situation does help him and also, I know everyone already has their narrative written on the 2015 season, but there are still 9 games left to be played. 

 

If Webb stays healthy and plays reasonably well, the odds of his being cut can still go down. However, those are two massive "Ifs". 

 

We are going to need cap space and he's eating a lot of it. Even if he looks good finishing out, it will be hard to view him as a solid starting option next year, given his injury history. And given his cap hit, that's really, really hurting the team. 

Yes, i think 60% chance he gets cut.

[rmcjacket23]

I assume that means you think there is a 60% chance of him getting cut. I think at this moment it could be higher.

 

However, your point on our secondary situation does help him and also, I know everyone already has their narrative written on the 2015 season, but there are still 9 games left to be played. 

 

If Webb stays healthy and plays reasonably well, the odds of his being cut can still go down. However, those are two massive "Ifs". 

 

We are going to need cap space and he's eating a lot of it. Even if he looks good finishing out, it will be hard to view him as a solid starting option next year, given his injury history. And given his cap hit, that's really, really hurting the team. 

Think there's no way he gets cut before FA begins, and I suspect he makes it at least through the draft, and quite possibly after June 1. 

 

Cap number is high, but only $3.5M of it is cap savings. That's significant, but you gotta make sure you got a replacement for him before you move on.

 

Any way you slice it, with our present roster (either healthy or injured), he's one of our 2-3 best corners.

[balfan23]

His contract - as it stands now given his current level of play - definitely hurts. But those bashing the FO for signing him are suffering from some selective memory.

 

Yes, he did suffer an ACL tear before the contract, but he played very well that season leading into his contract. Many said he very well could be considered a pro-bowl player. Everyone thought the injury was behind him and he didn't really display any chronic inability to stay on the field. People were in a panic because they thought that, even with a 1st round tender, someone (particularly the Pats) were going to swoop in and grab him. 

 

We signed him and everyone was happy.

 

Then came the second ACL tear, and he's not been right since. Now, everyone is cranky. 

 

The people complaining about what fools we have in the FO because of this contract ... I'd love to see what messages they were posting at the time ... (pay the man!). Again - selective memory. 

[Winchester]

On the subject of Dumervil, he hasn't consistently struggled in one on ones in any regard. It's a strange argument to make considering that he was constantly in the backfield the last time we played and that roughly half of his pressures came at ROLB. He's been surprisingly productive considering the absence of pressure opposite of him, and he's been statistically successful on both sides thus far. On the subject on Webb, it's pure hindsight to state that we could've waited to extend him. We've seen teams get burned in choosing to hold off often enough to know that it's risk either way.

Dumervil struggled when I watched him this year. He does not look particularly explosive or sudden. He is an eventual get to the qb rush olb. The ravens need that dude who is in the backfield in a blink.

[Ravenseconbeast]

I thought it was his knee and Achilles his first injury?? Anyways, in any sense of the word he will be going on 36 yrs old returning from injury?? Season ending injury. Do you ever run or play Anything?? Were you anywhere near as fast and flexible at 36?? Suggs is no longer a difference maker. Ravens need to find the next great edge rushers. Look at Dumervil this year!! He is 32-33 and no longer retains that burst that made him a formidable edge rusher.

Doom looked amazing @cardinals game. That could've easily been a 3sack game for him if suggs was on the other side.

[Static]

Dumervil struggled when I watched him this year. He does not look particularly explosive or sudden. He is an eventual get to the qb rush olb. The ravens need that dude who is in the backfield in a blink.

 

Doom has been pretty good, there is nobody on the otherside so QBs just roll the other way,

 

Carson Palmer did it all the time and so did Derek Carr

[Winchester]

Didnt you just say hes going on 35...ball-parking an age isnt a good way to make an argument when you keep making it go the way that suites your argument.  You could also say he could be in better shape next year, he wont be getting beatup through a 16 game season now.  lots of points that can go either way, yes as he gets older he will lose his effectiveness, but to say Suggs is no longer a difference maker is just plain stupid, last year him and doom im pretty sure they were the top duo or one of.

 

I just cant even....

34 35 whatever dude. To ASSUME he is still even better than average is stupid. Look what assuming did for the WRs. Have you ever played anything to realize the difference in athleticism and speed when you hit 35?????

[rmcjacket23]

34 35 whatever dude. To ASSUME he is still even better than average is stupid. Look what assuming did for the WRs. Have you ever played anything to realize the difference in athleticism and speed when you hit 35?????

LOL, there's no hard and fast age for anything in life. RBs lose this half the time by the time they are 28.

 

I think he's still better than average now, because I don't think you know what an average pass rusher in this league looks like. So I'm not just going to ASSUME he's going to drop off a cliff because he hits an age that YOU (and only you) think is the cutoff point between good and terrible.

 

For the record... speed has never really been Dumervil's biggest attribute.

[Winchester]

LOL, there's no hard and fast age for anything in life. RBs lose this half the time by the time they are 28.

 

I think he's still better than average now, because I don't think you know what an average pass rusher in this league looks like. So I'm not just going to ASSUME he's going to drop off a cliff because he hits an age that YOU (and only you) think is the cutoff point between good and terrible.

 

For the record... speed has never really been Dumervil's biggest attribute.

He had great burst. I actually thought he started losing it in the playoff game last year and b4 that. He seemed to need more technique and time and needed to use a different arsenal of moves that does not require elite burst. I watched him back in 08 09 maybe and his burst and jump impressed me. Not so much last year. To beat Brady Rogers a healthy Luck the rush needs to get there in under 4 seconds. The ravens need that rusher that crosses the tackle in a blink. For all the blame on the cornerbacks for that playoff loss. Dumervil and Suggs were of no help. Watch Quarter 3 of the Superbowl then after Avril got hurt. DIFFERENT GAME!!

[Static]

Webbs last good year was 2011. Before Peas came along

[rmcjacket23]

He had great burst. I actually thought he started losing it in the playoff game last year and b4 that. He seemed to need more technique and time and needed to use a different arsenal of moves that does not require elite burst. I watched him back in 08 09 maybe and his burst and jump impressed me. Not so much last year. To beat Brady Rogers a healthy Luck the rush needs to get there in under 4 seconds. The ravens need that rusher that crosses the tackle in a blink. For all the blame on the cornerbacks for that playoff loss. Dumervil and Suggs were of no help. Watch Quarter 3 of the Superbowl then after Avril got hurt. DIFFERENT GAME!!

1. We don't have that player and won't be getting him this season, so its irrelevant.

 

2. Pass rush really doesn't matter to the Patriots. If you get there in 3 seconds, you're typically too late. Brady beat us because our corners had to play 5+ yards off the ball and Brady owned us with 3 step drops. There isn't a pass rusher in this league that would have made a difference in that game from a rush perspective. You can draft the fastest rusher in history, and he maybe touches Tom once or twice. That's simply not how you beat the Patriots.

Edited October 29, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[Winchester]

Only have to touch him once every 5 drop backs. His rating was zero in quarter 3 of the Superbowl. Then like 109 after Avril got hurt. So it is how you beat the patsies. Brady is not the same when he gets hit.

[Tank 92]

Webb was very good at times, but those times were short. Considering how little he has played his ROI is one of the worst we've had. That said, the Ravens will have to weigh any cap savings gained by cutting him against the odds he can remain healthy for any period of time.

[rmcjacket23]

Only have to touch him once every 5 drop backs. His rating was zero in quarter 3 of the Superbowl. Then like 109 after Avril got hurt. So it is how you beat the patsies. Brady is not the same when he gets hit.

LOL, how many teams you think tough him once every 5 dropbacks? He's dropping back 45-50 times a game frequently. You think there's a team in the league that's hitting him 10 times a game? No QB is the same when he gets hit... there isn't one ever that liked it.

 

How do you beat the Patriots? Generally, you jam their receivers at the line so they don't get a free release, you disguise your coverages, and you tackle extremely well. And that's just on defense, because that's probably only going to keep them in the 20-25 point range on the scoreboard.

 

Then, you've got to go score TDs frequently. Why do you think they win double digit games every year?

Edited October 30, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

Only have to touch him once every 5 drop backs. His rating was zero in quarter 3 of the Superbowl. Then like 109 after Avril got hurt. So it is how you beat the patsies. Brady is not the same when he gets hit.

And just to clear up these false misconceptions you have about the SB... Avril didn't play that big of a role in it.

 

The Seahawks hit Brady a grand total of 7 times the whole game, which was once about every 7 dropbacks, and he was sacked a grand total of one time.... and it wasn't until the 4th quarter. Cliff Avril had ZERO contact with Brady.

 

And if we look at Brady's before/after Avril injury stats:

 

Before Avril injury: 20 for 26, 176 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs

After Avril injury: 15 for 18, 141 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs

 

You were technically right that Brady's third quarter wasn't that great, except Avril was injured on the Pats first possession of the third quarter on an INT, and the Pats didn't convert a first down on their next two possessions AFTER he was out of the game.

Edited October 30, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[GrimCoconut]

I don't blame Webb or the front office for his deal. I loved the deal and extension when it happened and was thrilled to have him here long-term across from Jimmy. I was really stoked, but injuries robbed him of his effectiveness. I just don't believe he'll ever finish a season healthy. He seems to always to hurt and that's a problem when you depend on him to play.

[GrimCoconut]

On the subject of Dumervil, he hasn't consistently struggled in one on ones in any regard. It's a strange argument to make considering that he was constantly in the backfield the last time we played and that roughly half of his pressures came at ROLB. He's been surprisingly productive considering the absence of pressure opposite of him, and he's been statistically successful on both sides thus far. On the subject on Webb, it's pure hindsight to state that we could've waited to extend him. We've seen teams get burned in choosing to hold off often enough to know that it's risk either way.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's hard to win. Ozzie is criticized when he doesn't extend a guy early and they leave for a bigger payday than we can afford by playing great in their final year, we ask him to do like other teams and extend guys early, and when he does he gets burned and people are ready to say he messed up and should've waited.

Wonderful double standard.

[Winchester]

LOL, how many teams you think tough him once every 5 dropbacks? He's dropping back 45-50 times a game frequently. You think there's a team in the league that's hitting him 10 times a game? No QB is the same when he gets hit... there isn't one ever that liked it.

 

How do you beat the Patriots? Generally, you jam their receivers at the line so they don't get a free release, you disguise your coverages, and you tackle extremely well. And that's just on defense, because that's probably only going to keep them in the 20-25 point range on the scoreboard.

 

Then, you've got to go score TDs frequently. Why do you think they win double digit games every year?

That easy huh?? Don't need fast pressure?? Why don't teams just jam their WRs?? Even if you jam a WR the rush needs to get there much faster than Dumervil of recent.

[rmcjacket23]

That easy huh?? Don't need fast pressure?? Why don't teams just jam their WRs?? Even if you jam a WR the rush needs to get there much faster than Dumervil of recent.

No, it really doesn't. 

 

Notice that I listed about four things that have to go your way in order to hold the Patriots to the mid-20s on the scoreboard.

 

Can't think of any teams at the moment, with the possible exception of the Broncos, that have the corners with the skill, speed and technique to jam their receivers and not get burned all day on crossing and option routes. 

 

And even then, you still have to go out and put up nearly 30 points, which is why the Broncos wouldn't beat them on a neutral field or in Foxboro.

 

For most teams, jamming them doesn't work, because there's a deficiency in tackling, coverage, or scoring points. Again, hence why they win double digit games every year and in my opinion can mostly sleepwalk through the AFC if they get homefield advantage, which they probably will.

Edited October 30, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[-Truth-]

Dumervil struggled when I watched him this year. He does not look particularly explosive or sudden. He is an eventual get to the qb rush olb. The ravens need that dude who is in the backfield in a blink.

 

I'm not certain that I could disagree more with this assessment of I wanted to. In the times he's closed on the QB, he has repeatedly beaten tackles on the outside. I'll preface this in stating that the following disruptions are from arguably his best games in that facet, but they back the point nevertheless (Link1, Link2, Link3, Link4, Link5, Link6, Link7, Link8, Link9, Link10, Link11). He hasn't been a hustle-rusher by any stretch of the imagination. Most of those and the majority of the pressures I've seen from Dumervil this season have come by way of going around the edge. He's not Von Miller when it comes to pure quickness, but he dusted linemen on a number of those plays. You could argue that he may wear down the stretch and it would be a valid concern. That being said, he's had a very good season thus far from what I've seen, much better than I expected after Terrell Suggs went down.

Edited October 30, 2015 by -Truth-

[-Truth-]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's hard to win. Ozzie is criticized when he doesn't extend a guy early and they leave for a bigger payday than we can afford by playing great in their final year, we ask him to do like other teams and extend guys early, and when he does he gets burned and people are ready to say he messed up and should've waited.

Wonderful double standard.

 

On the money there.

[Guest]

Webb is fine until they find a better option or in other words its not going to happen

 

Precisely, and good reading comprehension is a talent that is not universal.

 

And similarly, though he sucks substantially more, J. Smith is not going anywhere this year. In fact he's likely cementing our good draft position.

[Guest]

Webb is outplaying Jimmy Smith and Smiths contract is way more expensive than Webbs. It is also much earlier in Smiths which means more dead money implications on his.

 

Jimmy Smith is now a liability.  He's only one notch better than Melvin.

Name one long term contract on this team that looks good?

 

Yeah....that question is for the key man. 

 

Want to sink deeper into despair?  Check out how McPhee has been playing.

[Winchester]

I'm not certain that I could disagree more with this assessment of I wanted to. In the times he's closed on the QB, he has repeatedly beaten tackles on the outside. I'll preface this in stating that the following disruptions are from arguably his best games in that facet, but they back the point nevertheless (Link1, Link2, Link3, Link4, Link5, Link6, Link7, Link8, Link9, Link10, Link11). He hasn't been a hustle-rusher by any stretch of the imagination. Most of those and the majority of the pressures I've seen from Dumervil this season have come by way of going around the edge. He's not Von Miller when it comes to pure quickness, but he dusted linemen on a number of those plays. You could argue that he may wear down the stretch and it would be a valid concern. That being said, he's had a very good season thus far from what I've seen, much better than I expected after Terrell Suggs went down.

Those links say what I was suggesting. He pretty much gained position off the snap against linemen void of recovery speed and bad technique. But he seems to struggle often against more technically sound taller offensive tackles. He was a non factor in the playoff game. And Veldheer pretty much shut him out. Dumervil is still effective at times. But next year he is a year older. And come to think of it, I was watching him and Veldheer in quarter4. And it just seems like when the ravens needed pressure most, Dumervil is a non factor and I saw him struggle. He may have a 10 sack year next year or he could lose another step. It may be a good idea to see what a contending team that needs edge rush help will offer for him. Next year is his eleventh season.

[CalvinSmoke]

.... So back to Webb, he's our best corner this year, and has shown constant improvement in confidence. He gets drilled in here more than he should, honestly. He could be over paid right now, but he's not the only one. And if you think our secondary looks bad now.. Go ahead and take Webb out of the game.

[Winchester]

No, it really doesn't. 

 

Notice that I listed about four things that have to go your way in order to hold the Patriots to the mid-20s on the scoreboard.

 

Can't think of any teams at the moment, with the possible exception of the Broncos, that have the corners with the skill, speed and technique to jam their receivers and not get burned all day on crossing and option routes. 

 

And even then, you still have to go out and put up nearly 30 points, which is why the Broncos wouldn't beat them on a neutral field or in Foxboro.

 

For most teams, jamming them doesn't work, because there's a deficiency in tackling, coverage, or scoring points. Again, hence why they win double digit games every year and in my opinion can mostly sleepwalk through the AFC if they get homefield advantage, which they probably will.

Actually what slows them down as well is 3 down physical LBs that can cover like safety's becsuse they thrive over the middle. That is why the ravens shut them out in the second half. Ellerbe was patrolling throws 15-20 yards and Ray handled shallow throws the throws to help the hard hitting safety's. That is why I say a fast physical 3 down LB to partner with Mosley should be as much a priority as any position. Having a tandem of physical 3 down LBs really seriously throws rythym offenses off balance and timing when there are defenders the offense usually does not need to account for.

[usmccharles]

lets get real...no one in the afc is stopping the Pats, maybe no one in the entire NFL is going to be able to stop them.  Should be a good superbowl  Green Bay vs NE

[Sami84]

lets get real...no one in the afc is stopping the Pats, maybe no one in the entire NFL is going to be able to stop them.  Should be a good superbowl  Green Bay vs NE

 

i agree..

 

however aaron rodgers is so good i can see him pulling it off in the Super Bowl. Go green bay.