Lardarius Webb (Contract)

[rmcjacket23]

Name one long term contract on this team that looks good?

Gladly...

 

Flacco, Dumervil, Yanda, Steve Smith, Daryl Smith, Jeremy Zuttah, Sam Koch, Justin Forsett.

 

If you're only evaluating a contract based on what benefit it is bringing you this season, then you are evaluating the contract completely wrong.

 

I'd also add I have no issue with Suggs' deal and really don't have much issue with Monroe's deal either.

[rmcjacket23]

Suggs is going to light up QBs?? He will be 35 yrs old. And Coming off a knee injury. As for Webb it is a shame he got injured. However he was signed hastily after one great year. They could have waited to sign him

1. It wasn't one great year. It was one great year following one good year (see 2010). 

 

2. Sure, you could have waited. And that's risky. Ask the FO how waiting to sign Flacco worked out for them...

[BmoreBird22]

Nothing to do with your post, just passing through to say great sig. #TankforBosa

BombforBosa is better

[BmoreBird22]

I have to admit there is a certain "flop quality" to Webbs game now. He has plays where he is forced to "throw himself" at the offensive ball carrier because he has lost a step. His instincts are there, but he's not as laterally quick. It happens and knee surgeries don't help. But there is also a positioning quality to his play that our other corners don't have. Most notably Jimmy Smith.

I gotta tell you, I've about had enough of Mr. Smith. If you want to talk about not coming back from an injury, put your microscope on that "He ain't got no game" overpaid, money wasting, drive sustaining, has been of a corner. If Smith gets any deeper on his man he's gonna be lining up way back in the "Melvin Zone". It's a dang shame, especially when he lines up that deep and still gets beat on an out and up.

I know, the injury was just last year and Lisfrancs can be tough. Yes they can, he won't be the first player to never come back the same from one.

But before we dump our higher priced players for cheaper ones almost as good...How has that worked out recently and who is going to decide which replacement is "almost as good"?

Agreed

Stability is something that has been terribly undervalued in Baltimore.

I'm surprised rmcjacket didn't reply to this because he hates ignorance more than me.

Just so you know UPenn did a study and found that the average time to return from a Lisfranc injury was 11.5 months, which happens to be right about now for Jimmy. They found the average range for return was 9 to 15 months. Guess how many months it took Jimmy? Seven.

They also found that every single player who suffered a Lisfranc injury in something like the past 10 or 15 years returned to play at the exact same level or higher when given about a full year to recover. Jimmy still hasn't hit a year.

When asked if he was fully recovered from the injury, Jimmy said he didn't want to talk about it or use it as an excuse. Translation? He's not fully healthy.

Anyway, it's a Webb thread and I don't want to derail this, but don't post ignorance with no insurance to back it up

[rmcjacket23]

I'm surprised rmcjacket didn't reply to this because he hates ignorance more than me.

Just so you know UPenn did a study and found that the average time to return from a Lisfranc injury was 11.5 months, which happens to be right about now for Jimmy. They found the average range for return was 9 to 15 months. Guess how many months it took Jimmy? Seven.

They also found that every single player who suffered a Lisfranc injury in something like the past 10 or 15 years returned to play at the exact same level or higher when given about a full year to recover. Jimmy still hasn't hit a year.

When asked if he was fully recovered from the injury, Jimmy said he didn't want to talk about it or use it as an excuse. Translation? He's not fully healthy.

Anyway, it's a Webb thread and I don't want to derail this, but don't post ignorance with no insurance to back it up

I wrote off most of his commentary a long time ago.

 

What I was going to question is this notion of stability, since most of the fans unreasonable solutions to some of our apparent problems involve GETTING RID OF stability.

 

Firing Ozzie would be getting rid of stability. Firing Harbaugh would be getting rid of stability. Firing Pees would be getting rid of stability.

[K-Dog]

Hahaha.

Pay cuts.

That's cute.

[BmoreBird22]

I wrote off most of his commentary a long time ago.

What I was going to question is this notion of stability, since most of the fans unreasonable solutions to some of our apparent problems involve GETTING RID OF stability.

Firing Ozzie would be getting rid of stability. Firing Harbaugh would be getting rid of stability. Firing Pees would be getting rid of stability.

I just found it amusing to see the whole, "He is so bad that we should get rid of him, but remember we need stability and outside options may not be better."

So, why complain at all...?

[Perfekt]

Maybe its just me but didnt Webb this season when we traded Ngata take a pay cut? Oh yea that's right he restructed to a team friendly deal. Now you want the man to take another pay cut because you feel he's the problem on defense. I tell you some of yall are not seeing the bigger issues. We have little to no pass rush due to injury and backups backups playing DB but get rid of the guy who is playing Decent not great.

 

Nevermind the fact the offense cant sustain drives to keep the horrible defense off the field or atleast not give them good field position. This whole team is just playing bad this year and we need to accept it. We need to get rid of Pees at the end of the season.

 

Just a reminder we still have Ray Rice dead money on the books with Ngata and Pierce.

[usmccharles]

I have to admit there is a certain "flop quality" to Webbs game now.  He has plays where he is forced to "throw himself" at the offensive ball carrier because he has lost a step.  His instincts are there, but he's not as laterally quick.  It happens and knee surgeries don't help.  But there is also a positioning quality to his play that our other corners don't have. Most notably Jimmy Smith. 

 

I gotta tell you, I've about had enough of Mr. Smith. If you want to talk about not coming back from an injury, put your microscope on that "He ain't got no game" overpaid, money wasting, drive sustaining, has been of a corner.  If Smith gets any deeper on his man he's gonna be lining up way back in the "Melvin Zone".  It's a dang shame, especially when he lines up that deep and still gets beat on an out and up.  

 

I know, the injury was just last year and Lisfrancs can be tough.  Yes they can, he won't be the first player to never come back the same from one.

 

But before we dump our higher priced players for cheaper ones almost as good...How has that worked out recently and who is going to decide which replacement is "almost as good"?

 

Agreed

 

Stability is something that has been terribly undervalued in Baltimore.

 

 

I'm surprised rmcjacket didn't reply to this because he hates ignorance more than me.

Just so you know UPenn did a study and found that the average time to return from a Lisfranc injury was 11.5 months, which happens to be right about now for Jimmy. They found the average range for return was 9 to 15 months. Guess how many months it took Jimmy? Seven.

They also found that every single player who suffered a Lisfranc injury in something like the past 10 or 15 years returned to play at the exact same level or higher when given about a full year to recover. Jimmy still hasn't hit a year.

When asked if he was fully recovered from the injury, Jimmy said he didn't want to talk about it or use it as an excuse. Translation? He's not fully healthy.

Anyway, it's a Webb thread and I don't want to derail this, but don't post ignorance with no insurance to back it up

Verified Burn Centers - American Burn Association

www.ameriburn.org/verification_verifiedcenters.php

 

Verification of burn centers is a joint program of the American Burn Association (ABA) and the American College of Surgeons (ACS). It is a ... UNITED STATES.

[rmcjacket23]

Maybe its just me but didnt Webb this season when we traded Ngata take a pay cut? Oh yea that's right he restructed to a team friendly deal. Now you want the man to take another pay cut because you feel he's the problem on defense. I tell you some of yall are not seeing the bigger issues. We have little to no pass rush due to injury and backups backups playing DB but get rid of the guy who is playing Decent not great.

 

Nevermind the fact the offense cant sustain drives to keep the horrible defense off the field or atleast not give them good field position. This whole team is just playing bad this year and we need to accept it. We need to get rid of Pees at the end of the season.

 

Just a reminder we still have Ray Rice dead money on the books with Ngata and Pierce.

I doubt the fan proposed paycut option is realistic. If I were Webb and I had been asked to take a paycut two years in a row, I'd nicely (or perhaps not so nicely) just simply say no. Pay me or cut me.

 

Cutting is just as much of an option as nothing happening with his deal at all. There's a pretty good chance he could get more than $5.5M in 2016 from somebody else via signing bonus/salary, so I doubt he's worried about that.

[rmcjacket23]

So, why complain at all...?

You know better than to ask this question on these boards...

[Drew P]

Webb is fine until they find a better option or in other words its not going to happen

[757RavensFan]

I'm surprised rmcjacket didn't reply to this because he hates ignorance more than me.

Just so you know UPenn did a study and found that the average time to return from a Lisfranc injury was 11.5 months, which happens to be right about now for Jimmy. They found the average range for return was 9 to 15 months. Guess how many months it took Jimmy? Seven.

They also found that every single player who suffered a Lisfranc injury in something like the past 10 or 15 years returned to play at the exact same level or higher when given about a full year to recover. Jimmy still hasn't hit a year.

When asked if he was fully recovered from the injury, Jimmy said he didn't want to talk about it or use it as an excuse. Translation? He's not fully healthy.

Anyway, it's a Webb thread and I don't want to derail this, but don't post ignorance with no insurance to back it up

 

I'm guessing that's why we haven't seen the same level of play from Rick Wagner as well. 

[rmcjacket23]

I'm guessing that's why we haven't seen the same level of play from Rick Wagner as well. 

Probably has a significant amount to do with it. 

 

I think Wagner may have sort of "over-produced" if you will last season, and I'm not sure the guy we saw last season is the guy we will see in the future.

 

I think his normal production lands somewhere between last season and this season, making him an average to slightly above average RT in my eyes. I have no problem with that either.

[Ravenseconbeast]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000567495/article/mccown-does-not-practice-manziel-meets-with-nfl

Gave this guy 430+ yards.   Jimmy and Webb are in trouble

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ravenseconbeast

[Tru11]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000567495/article/mccown-does-not-practice-manziel-meets-with-nfl

Gave this guy 430+ yards.   Jimmy and Webb are in trouble

 

you do know webb missed a good part of that game right?

you also do know doom missed a bigger part of that game as well right?

 

at some point our CBs where jimmy walker and brooks.

also since doom left it was upshaw and zadarius left to be the edge rushers.

 

now ive been told a lot of you think these guys are highly talented thus come with high expectations but in reality they are far from capable to do what they where forced to do....

[rmcjacket23]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000567495/article/mccown-does-not-practice-manziel-meets-with-nfl

Gave this guy 430+ yards.   Jimmy and Webb are in trouble

Yup, just like they were supposed to get torched for 500 yards and 6 TDs by Carson Palmer on the road a few days ago...

[Tru11]

Yup, just like they were supposed to get torched for 500 yards and 6 TDs by Carson Palmer on the road a few days ago...

 

you know they wont give them credit for actually having a decent game lol

[Winchester]

Im a huge fan of Webb's, always have liked him and its a shame we never got to see the potential, he was heading towards being a shut down corner. Didnt see this mentioned, but his return skills were awesome. I believe he almost won us a playoff game against the steelers with a punt return that got called back. I loved the signing at the time and i still like webb, hes playing consistent. Is there any benefits or possibility that Webb can take a pay cut?

I thought it was his knee and Achilles his first injury?? Anyways, in any sense of the word he will be going on 36 yrs old returning from injury?? Season ending injury. Do you ever run or play Anything?? Were you anywhere near as fast and flexible at 36?? Suggs is no longer a difference maker. Ravens need to find the next great edge rushers. Look at Dumervil this year!! He is 32-33 and no longer retains that burst that made him a formidable edge rusher.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Winchester

[rmcjacket23]

I thought it was his knee and Achilles his first injury?? Anyways, in any sense of the word he will be going on 36 yrs old returning from injury?? Season ending injury. Do you ever run or play Anything?? Were you anywhere near as fast and flexible at 36?? Suggs is no longer a difference maker. Ravens need to find the next great edge rushers. Look at Dumervil this year!! He is 32-33 and no longer retains that burst that made him a formidable edge rusher.

Suggs doesn't need to be a difference maker as a pass rusher in order for this team to be successful.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

Suggs is going to light up QBs?? He will be 35 yrs old. And Coming off a knee injury. As for Webb it is a shame he got injured. However he was signed hastily after one great year. They could have waited to sign him

 

 

Suggs will be 34,he didn't hurt his knee,he tore his achilles and I didn't say he would light anything up.I think Suggs will still have enough in the tank to add something to our pass rush.He showed no signs of slowing down before his injury.And I agree with you on the Webb signing.I was excited when we signed him but gasped when I saw the numbers.I think he was paid so much because he didn't just have a good year as a CB in 2011 but was also a pretty good return man.

[Winchester]

Suggs will be 34,he didn't hurt his knee,he tore his achilles and I didn't say he would light anything up.I think Suggs will still have enough in the tank to add something to our pass rush.He showed no signs of slowing down before his injury.And I agree with you on the Webb signing.I was excited when we signed him but gasped when I saw the numbers.I think he was paid so much because he didn't just have a good year as a CB in 2011 but was also a pretty good return man.

Suggs doesn't need to be a difference maker as a pass rusher in order for this team to be successful.

Yes he does need to be a difference maker. Especially when he is on the books as a difference maker. I am not trying to be arrogant or flame. But to win a championship you need to be better than EVERYBODY!! The other teams players are being payed as well. There is to much contentment for mediocre players. I understand fans like to applaud every good play by the home team player. And you can win a championship with some mediocre players as long as they are surrounded by difference makers. And there is no difference making edge rusher on the team. To think Suggs is going to be enough at 35 years old is nieve. If he is marginally effective it is nothing to get up in arms about!! There is to much excitement of mediocrity on the team. Just like there was with Brown and Aiken. The ravens are tied for the worst record in the NFL. Yet if you go by the excitement of conversations of all the players, one would think the ravens are championship bound. If Suggs is the ravens best edge rusher the ravens Defense will be terrible.

Suggs is slowing down. If he gets pressure on Brady in the playoffs the ravens win that game. Could the ravens really enter next year with the idea Suggs is the best Edge rusher?? BTW he is on the books for a good amount of $$.

[rmcjacket23]

Yes he does need to be a difference maker. Especially when he is on the books as a difference maker. I am not trying to be arrogant or flame. But to win a championship you need to be better than EVERYBODY!! The other teams players are being payed as well. There is to much contentment for mediocre players. I understand fans like to applaud every good play by the home team player. And you can win a championship with some mediocre players as long as they are surrounded by difference makers. And there is no difference making edge rusher on the team. To think Suggs is going to be enough at 35 years old is nieve. If he is marginally effective it is nothing to get up in arms about!! There is to much excitement of mediocrity on the team. Just like there was with Brown and Aiken. The ravens are tied for the worst record in the NFL. Yet if you go by the excitement of conversations of all the players, one would think the ravens are championship bound. If Suggs is the ravens best edge rusher the ravens Defense will be terrible.

Suggs is slowing down. If he gets pressure on Brady in the playoffs the ravens win that game. Could the ravens really enter next year with the idea Suggs is the best Edge rusher?? BTW he is on the books for a good amount of $$.

No, I said very specifically that he doesn't need to be a difference maker as a PASS RUSHER, because he doesn't. You add a pass rusher in the draft/FA, and he's the third pass rusher on the team that still probably gets you 4-5 sacks a year.

 

He still sets the edge and defends the run incredibly well, and I don't expect that to decline. Given that we may be losing Upshaw as a FA, we can definitely use an OLB who can defend the run. He can also be a difference maker as a leader, which I believe fans have told me we need more than anything.

 

He won't be the Ravens best edge rusher, because Dumervil and/or a draft pick/FA signing will be. I'm certainly not ready to throw on the towel on Doom as a quality rusher because we have no idea what he would have done this year if he even had one edge rusher lined up on the other side. Pass rushers typically don't decline from 17 sacks to like 5 sacks all on their own.

 

Plus, he's making $4.5M next year. That's not elite edge rusher kind of money.

Edited October 29, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[Winchester]

No, I said very specifically that he doesn't need to be a difference maker as a PASS RUSHER, because he doesn't. You add a pass rusher in the draft/FA, and he's the third pass rusher on the team that still probably gets you 4-5 sacks a year.

 

He still sets the edge and defends the run incredibly well, and I don't expect that to decline. Given that we may be losing Upshaw as a FA, we can definitely use an OLB who can defend the run. He can also be a difference maker as a leader, which I believe fans have told me we need more than anything.

 

He won't be the Ravens best edge rusher, because Dumervil and/or a draft pick/FA signing will be. I'm certainly not ready to throw on the towel on Doom as a quality rusher because we have no idea what he would have done this year if he even had one edge rusher lined up on the other side. Pass rushers typically don't decline from 17 sacks to like 5 sacks all on their own.

 

Plus, he's making $4.5M next year. That's not elite edge rusher kind of money.

Dumervil is not being effected by the other olb. He is getting blocked by a single blocker. He really struggled against veldheer as he has against many other single blockers. You really think he will be a better player next year at going on 34 years old??

[rmcjacket23]

Dumervil is not being effected by the other olb. He is getting blocked by a single blocker. He really struggled against veldheer as he has against many other single blockers. You really think he will be a better player next year at going on 34 years old??

He's being double teamed often, and he's also typically lining up against the LT (typically better in protection) whereas in the past Suggs has largely worked against the LT and Dumervil against the RT. 

 

Assuming we add an edge rusher, likely in the draft, I think his production will increase next season over this season. I'm not really that concerned about age yet. 

 

Keep in mind also that due to the lack of depth, Dumervil's snap count is up this year... in the 70% range. Ideally, he'd be down around 50-60%. Given that, I can see him easily being a low double-digit sack guy next season. I'll bet he ends up at around 6-8 this year, which would be pretty impressive in my eyes.

Edited October 29, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[rmw10]

My favorite, underrated thing that Suggs does that I love is sniffing out those screen passes. It's amazing how much further ahead he is at that than anyone else.

Edit: Andddd I just realized this is the Webb thread. Not sure how we got to Suggs, but the point still stands lol

Edited October 29, 2015 by rmw10

[usmccharles]

I thought it was his knee and Achilles his first injury?? Anyways, in any sense of the word he will be going on 36 yrs old returning from injury?? Season ending injury. Do you ever run or play Anything?? Were you anywhere near as fast and flexible at 36?? Suggs is no longer a difference maker. Ravens need to find the next great edge rushers. Look at Dumervil this year!! He is 32-33 and no longer retains that burst that made him a formidable edge rusher.

Didnt you just say hes going on 35...ball-parking an age isnt a good way to make an argument when you keep making it go the way that suites your argument.  You could also say he could be in better shape next year, he wont be getting beatup through a 16 game season now.  lots of points that can go either way, yes as he gets older he will lose his effectiveness, but to say Suggs is no longer a difference maker is just plain stupid, last year him and doom im pretty sure they were the top duo or one of.

 

I just cant even....

[Guest Omerta]

Dumervil is not being effected by the other olb. He is getting blocked by a single blocker. He really struggled against veldheer as he has against many other single blockers. You really think he will be a better player next year at going on 34 years old??

To this point, Jared Veldheer one of the best tackles in the league and supremely under-rated.

[-Truth-]

On the subject of Dumervil, he hasn't consistently struggled in one on ones in any regard. It's a strange argument to make considering that he was constantly in the backfield the last time we played and that roughly half of his pressures came at ROLB. He's been surprisingly productive considering the absence of pressure opposite of him, and he's been statistically successful on both sides thus far. On the subject on Webb, it's pure hindsight to state that we could've waited to extend him. We've seen teams get burned in choosing to hold off often enough to know that it's risk either way.

[757RavensFan]

I thought it was his knee and Achilles his first injury?? Anyways, in any sense of the word he will be going on 36 yrs old returning from injury?? Season ending injury. Do you ever run or play Anything?? Were you anywhere near as fast and flexible at 36?? Suggs is no longer a difference maker. Ravens need to find the next great edge rushers. Look at Dumervil this year!! He is 32-33 and no longer retains that burst that made him a formidable edge rusher.

 

This is his 2nd Achilles tendon injury.  First time in 2012 and again this year.