Lardarius Webb (Contract)

[sflegend89]

Cap number is higher than Chris Harris Jr who is a top 5 corner, if that doesn't make you sick I don't know what will. (Webb 9.5M vs Harris Jr 9M). Let's forget about Pitta's contract right now because that was just a freak accident, the main guy bleeding us dry right now is Webb, just a sickening deal for the product he put's on the field.

 

I don't think many fans realize just how bad his contract is, he's getting paid like an ELITE cornerback. Webb is making the same money basically as Aqib Talib who has been an absolute monster, total game changer at the cornerback position. 

 

What can we possibly do with Webb at this point? Dude needs to take a massive restructure this offseason. But what's his motivation to do so? we can't cut him, it would just be for the good of the team.. I get the feeling Webb does care about the team but not nearly as much as he cares about that juicy contract he got over on. As much as we praise this front office around draft time they have totally mismanaged their money. I don't even want to hear about injuries, we got suckered into overpaying a guy who had ONE good season and is undersized to begin with.

[1/28/01]

He's actually played better than J Smith...

[sflegend89]

He's actually played better than J Smith...

Difference is Jimmy's just been in a funk but he's got the size and ability, just thinking too much and is frustrated. Webb plays like hot garbage, he's made of glass, plays true to his size, can't cover ANYONE. I see a clear difference in the two, I see one guy who is going through a rough patch and one guy who's days of being effective much less elite are numbered.

Look at Jimmy against the Broncos this year, he was playing like he did in 2014.. all that potential is still there, he might even be playing through an injury. 2011 Webb ain't coming back, it's a wrap.

[rmcjacket23]

Just so we are clear about something... Webb's CAP NUMBER is $9.5M, not what he actually gets paid.

 

This year, he made $4.25M. Would you consider that unreasonable for him?

 

Next year, he will make $5.5M. Would you consider that unreasonable for him?

 

I'm not saying they are or aren't reasonable numbers, but I think people don't understand that their cap hit isn't what they actually get paid. Keep in mind that of the $9.5M cap hit for next season, $2M of that is for money paid to him in 2012 and $1M of that is for money paid to him in 2013.

 

I'd also advise that its typically not a great idea to compare players based on how they rank in the quality of positional players in their group, particularly when their contracts were signed at completely different times. 

 

At the time Webb signed his deal, he was every bit as good as Harris is now. Harris also got about twice as much guaranteed money as Webb (what really matters), thus making it more difficult to cut him if he declines like Webb has.

 

Also, I see no reason why Webb couldn't theoretically be released if substantial replacements at CB are found... he would create $3.5M in cap savings.

[Bltravens]

When they paid him he was actually rated a top 10 CB who had the ability to move inside in the nickel and was just as good in coverage and was a nasty blitzer.  Then he blew his knee out, twice.  I fail to see how that's the FO fault for signing him.  They legit picked a guy out of Nicholls St who turned into a top 10 CB that just happened to blow his knee out twice.

[Deflated Football]

Man, whatever DOES happen with Webby, we really need some stability in this secondary. I know how common injuries are in the NFL and how common it is to play through an injury, but ours have been season ending almost every year to big time players. It's truly mind blowing how a significant guy seems to go down frequently. I'm on the fence about Webb and I'm also getting wary of how many big contracts we end up giving to guys who can't play a full season.

[Static]

Both Webb and Jimmy are due for about a 9mil cap hit next season. Not looking good. Eugene Monroe is at about 9 too.

 

 

Great contracts.

[sflegend89]

Both Webb and Jimmy are due for about a 9mil cap hit next season. Not looking good. Eugene Monroe is at about 9 too.

 

 

Great contracts.

 

I can live with Jimmy's, I think he get's it turned around. Even Monroe's isn't as bad as Webb's with the premium put on the LT position and the overall lack of good one's in the entire league. It's far from ideal but it's understandable when you look at the LT position as a whole. Webb's is just terrible, guy had a major knee surgery already and we didn't protect ourselves with any play time incentives or anything.

Edited October 28, 2015 by sflegend89

[ratedr]

I can live with Jimmy's, I think he get's it turned around. Even Monroe's isn't as bad as Webb's with the premium put on the LT position and the overall lack of good one's in the entire league. It's far from ideal but's understandable when you look at the LT position as a whole. Webb's is just terrible, guy had a major knee surgery already and we didn't protect ourselves with any play time incentives or anything.

Nothing to do with your post, just passing through to say great sig. #TankforBosa

[PurpleCity5]

If we do find a replacement, then yes, you cut ties with Webb, outside of that I don't know if it will happen. Then again I have a feeling it could. He's only had one injury prone season, 2014, I don't consider 2012 to be one since ACL tears are just freak accidents. That said, Webb has been solid this year. 

 

IT SUCKS the ACL tear had to happen to Webb. In his 3rd season, this man was on fire. He was truly magnificent, if he and Jimmy never suffered season ending injuries they could very well compete with Talib and Harris Jr. for best CB duo.I feel that if they didn't suffer those injuries we would have been in the Superbowl last season. I'm confident about that. 

 

I feel if Webb never had that ACL tear we wouldn't even be having this discussion. 

 

I resent the days both of them went down to season ending injuries.

 

If you believe that contract we gave to Webb was a poor one, then please look into this article that shows just how great Webb was truly. I know you saw but its a reminder to everyone who hates that contract to realize just how great he was. Its a great post. 

 

http://ravensall-22.blogspot.com/2014/08/examining-lardarius-webb-pre-and-post.html

Edited October 28, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[rmcjacket23]

Webb already had an ACL tear on the books (2009) when we signed him to his big contract. Webb never had the track record to earn THAT big of a contract, it should've been incentive heavy with such a small sample size. Brandon Browner for instance didn't get anywhere close to that kind of money when he went to the Patriots after being rated as a top 10 CB with Seattle and that's a big corner without a major knee surgery on his record.

 

Webb and his agent rode 2011 all the way to the bank and Ozzie and company failed to bring him back down to Earth and say "Woah Woah Woah, let's not get carried away fellas, it was a great year, we want to reward you for your big season, but one season is not a big enough sample size for the kind of money you're talking about, we want to offer you an incentive laden contract if you're feeling like this is the kind of money you want, based on play time incentives, efficiency incentives, pro bowl incentives, ect we are going to give you the opportunity to EARN the type of money you are asking for".

Couple of major problems I have with this...

 

1. Saying "o the deal should have been incentive heavy" implies that Webb would have gladly taken that deal, which of course he wouldn't have. His agent would have undoubtedly advised him to test the open market, where he would have gotten the same or better deal that he got from us. 

 

Imagine how much different this team is over the last 4 years with no Lardarius Webb on this team. Not a good look.

 

2. Webb tore his ACL in 2009, and he played basically two full seasons after that and performed well doing it. So because he had an ACL tear three years earlier, he deserved to get an incentive deal? Sorry, the NFL doesn't work that way, especially at that position.

 

3. The Brandon Browner example is horrendous on so many levels. For one, he's been suspended four games TWICE for drugs/PEDs, which means the next suspension will pretty much guarantee him at least a half year suspension. There aren't too many big contracts being given out to players who get suspended that often.

 

Secondly, he's an overrated corner who I believe is the far and away leader in the league in pass interference penalties the last several years. It tells you something when the Patriots, who just won a SB and could easily win another, let him walk (even knowing Revis was leaving) for what is a relatively cheap price for corners.

 

Did you ever ask yourself how in the world the Ravens ended up landing Will Hill for mostly chump change and why we still aren't paying him that much, despite being one of the better rated safeties in the league? Its not a magic trick... its called risk, and Hill is about as risky as it gets. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[sflegend89]

Just so we are clear about something... Webb's CAP NUMBER is $9.5M, not what he actually gets paid.

 

This year, he made $4.25M. Would you consider that unreasonable for him?

 

Next year, he will make $5.5M. Would you consider that unreasonable for him?

 

I'm not saying they are or aren't reasonable numbers, but I think people don't understand that their cap hit isn't what they actually get paid. Keep in mind that of the $9.5M cap hit for next season, $2M of that is for money paid to him in 2012 and $1M of that is for money paid to him in 2013.

 

I'd also advise that its typically not a great idea to compare players based on how they rank in the quality of positional players in their group, particularly when their contracts were signed at completely different times. 

 

At the time Webb signed his deal, he was every bit as good as Harris is now. Harris also got about twice as much guaranteed money as Webb (what really matters), thus making it more difficult to cut him if he declines like Webb has.

 

Also, I see no reason why Webb couldn't theoretically be released if substantial replacements at CB are found... he would create $3.5M in cap savings.

 

Good post. If we aren't in position to take Bosa (Top 3 presumably) maybe we take a guy like Ramsey/Hargreaves and cut Webb. Not sure if Ramsey is projecting as more of a safety or corner to NFL teams but both guys would fit us really well. Would we still eat a good amount of dead money if we cut Webb?

[rmcjacket23]

Good post. If we aren't in position to take Bosa (Top 3 presumably) maybe we take a guy like Ramsey/Hargreaves and cut Webb. Not sure if Ramsey is projecting as more of a safety or corner to NFL teams but both guys would fit us really well. Would we still eat a good amount of dead money if we cut Webb?

$6M in dead money.

 

And for what its worth, if we drafted a corner early, I still wouldn't expect us to cut Webb. I expect first round corners to struggle, because many of them do. Lightbulb didn't come on for Jimmy until late in year 2. 

 

I certainly don't expect any corner we draft to come in and light the world on fire.

[sflegend89]

A lot of you have made good posts defending the contract I must say, it's FAR worse in hindsight than it was when we gave it to him. Really the moral of the story is injuries have derailed what could've been a dynasty-esque run for this team, leading the league back-to-back years in players on IR as of right now, elite cornerback has a career changing injury, I have never seen a team by so altered by injuries in such a short period of time.

[rmw10]

Big thing I'm noticing here is all of the contracts mentioned (Webb, Jimmy, Monroe) were praised when those deals were signed.  Unfortunately for us, the number of injuries these guys have faced are making these contracts look bad.  Jimmy is the only guy here with an injury history before he signed the deal, and many of us still looked at that as a great deal.  Webb was downright dominant before multiple knee and back injuries.  Monroe is still a very good LT when healthy, but we've unfortunately gotten very little of that guy when he signed the deal.  It's unfortunate, but there's not much you can do about it.  You have to pay guys when you have them.

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I say we cut him and Lewis for the $4.4 million in cap space and put those savings toward signing Sean Smith and Eric Weddle.I think a secondary with those two,Jimmy,Hill and Arrington should get us back to atleast being in the teens in pass defense.Especially once Suggs comes back and improves our pass rush.

[codizzle]

He's actually played better than J Smith...

It's close enough for everyone to lay off Webb..

This far into the season the problem is obviously way bigger than one player.

[B-more Ravor]

When they paid him he was actually rated a top 10 CB who had the ability to move inside in the nickel and was just as good in coverage and was a nasty blitzer.  Then he blew his knee out, twice.  I fail to see how that's the FO fault for signing him.  They legit picked a guy out of Nicholls St who turned into a top 10 CB that just happened to blow his knee out twice.

 

 

This.  Webb was paid the going rate for a CB of his caliber at the time of the signing.  Injuries have changed that since, but those are he breaks (of which, we're getting none right now).

 

I think Webb could be a candidate for release - either pre- or post-June 1, depending on what exactly happens with Pitta.  I could see one going pre-June 1 and one post-June 1.

 

And, it's not that I think Webb has been that bad, but the accumulation of injuries leads me to believe they aren't going to risk paying him $5.5M in salary next year.   The savings is less if released prior to June 1 ($3.5M), but I'd think they'd prefer to spend that Cap space on a more reliable player.

[K-Dog]

When they paid him he was actually rated a top 10 CB who had the ability to move inside in the nickel and was just as good in coverage and was a nasty blitzer.  Then he blew his knee out, twice.  I fail to see how that's the FO fault for signing him.  They legit picked a guy out of Nicholls St who turned into a top 10 CB that just happened to blow his knee out twice.

THIS times 1,000

 

There was a point in time Webb was an absolute beast.  QB's would avoid him like the plague. Several weeks he was the least targeted corner in the league.  He earned that contract no doubt.  Has he lived up to it since then?  Sadly no.

No one here is a bigger Webb fan than I am.  I have my reasons.  I want him to retire as a Raven.

Dead money is a part of what is killing us this season.  Cutting Webb will result in more dead money.  There is more value in keeping him as opposed to cutting him.  Reality is with whatever money is left over, we wont be able to afford better.

[-Truth-]

I share the same sentiment in that there's no way that we could've ever expected Webb to blow out his other ACL in less than 4 years after tearing up his right knee. The 2011 campaign that earned him the hefty contract, while a distant memory, was an utterly dominant one. He was one of the few CBs that didn't give up a score despite seeing over 100 targets. I personally thought that he was easily one of the best corners in the game that season. His performance against Houston in the playoffs was absolutely masterful, one that I witnessed in person, and he had a strong beginning to his following season prior. Had he not went down with the injury, I feel that he could've continued playing at a very high level. I feel for Webb. His career could've been far different had it not been for the injuries.

Edited October 29, 2015 by -Truth-

[rmw10]

I share the same sentiment in that there's no way that we could've ever expected Webb to blow out his other ACL in less than 4 years after tearing up his right knee. The 2011 campaign that earned him the hefty contract, while a distant memory, was an utterly dominant one. He was one of the few CBs that didn't give up a score despite seeing over 100 targets. I personally thought that he was easily one of the best corners in the game that season. His performance against Houston in the playoffs was absolutely masterful, one that I witnessed in person, and he had a strong beginning to his following season prior. Had he not went down with the injury, I feel that he could've continued playing at a very high level. I feel for Webb. His career could've been far different had it not been for the injuries.

 

It's certainly tough, but as you said, he was damn near the best CB in football before we signed him to that deal.  It's easy to criticize it now after seeing what has happened to his career.  If you go back to the thread announcing his extension, I bet it's filled with overwhelming excitement.

[-Truth-]

It's certainly tough, but as you said, he was damn near the best CB in football before we signed him to that deal.  It's easy to criticize it now after seeing what has happened to his career.  If you go back to the thread announcing his extension, I bet it's filled with overwhelming excitement.

 

Nailed it. Exactly right.

[rmcjacket23]

It's certainly tough, but as you said, he was damn near the best CB in football before we signed him to that deal.  It's easy to criticize it now after seeing what has happened to his career.  If you go back to the thread announcing his extension, I bet it's filled with overwhelming excitement.

Nothing more than what has become the standard here....woulda, coulda, shoulda.

 

Everybody is a great GM when they're able to make decisions after seeing the future...

[Guest]

I have to admit there is a certain "flop quality" to Webbs game now.  He has plays where he is forced to "throw himself" at the offensive ball carrier because he has lost a step.  His instincts are there, but he's not as laterally quick.  It happens and knee surgeries don't help.  But there is also a positioning quality to his play that our other corners don't have. Most notably Jimmy Smith. 

 

I gotta tell you, I've about had enough of Mr. Smith. If you want to talk about not coming back from an injury, put your microscope on that "He ain't got no game" overpaid, money wasting, drive sustaining, has been of a corner.  If Smith gets any deeper on his man he's gonna be lining up way back in the "Melvin Zone".  It's a dang shame, especially when he lines up that deep and still gets beat on an out and up.  

 

I know, the injury was just last year and Lisfrancs can be tough.  Yes they can, he won't be the first player to never come back the same from one.

 

But before we dump our higher priced players for cheaper ones almost as good...How has that worked out recently and who is going to decide which replacement is "almost as good"?

He's actually played better than J Smith...

 

Agreed

Man, whatever DOES happen with Webby, we really need some stability in this secondary. I know how common injuries are in the NFL and how common it is to play through an injury, but ours have been season ending almost every year to big time players. It's truly mind blowing how a significant guy seems to go down frequently. I'm on the fence about Webb and I'm also getting wary of how many big contracts we end up giving to guys who can't play a full season.

 

Stability is something that has been terribly undervalued in Baltimore.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Danny D

[sflegend89]

This front office has a huge offseason in front of them, but I do have faith in Ozzie and Eric to figure this out and I'm sure they're already discussing possible moves. Sadly I think it starts with letting KO walk, only because Urschel has shown potential and we don't have the cap room to shell out on another big deal, sucks though because KO is an absolute mauler in the running game.

Hopeful we get a fairly sizable restructure from Flacco, possible restructure from Webb, top 8 draft pick, get Suggs back, find a new DC, there's definitely moves we can make to get back on the winning track next year and I think it starts with a high draft pick. Ozzie picking in the top 8 of every round could do some serious damage, so often the board is picked clean by the time we're on the clock.

[PurpleCity5]

I share the same sentiment in that there's no way that we could've ever expected Webb to blow out his other ACL in less than 4 years after tearing up his right knee. The 2011 campaign that earned him the hefty contract, while a distant memory, was an utterly dominant one. He was one of the few CBs that didn't give up a score despite seeing over 100 targets. I personally thought that he was easily one of the best corners in the game that season. His performance against Houston in the playoffs was absolutely masterful, one that I witnessed in person, and he had a strong beginning to his following season prior. Had he not went down with the injury, I feel that he could've continued playing at a very high level. I feel for Webb. His career could've been far different had it not been for the injuries.

I completely agree and I love how you brought up the Houston game, he was flat out AWESOME that game. Im not going to lie, when I found out we extended him, I was PUMPED. The guy was awesome and to only think it was his third season, he was awesome. That contract was well deserved.

[Ravens4Real]

Webb is outplaying Jimmy Smith and Smiths contract is way more expensive than Webbs. It is also much earlier in Smiths which means more dead money implications on his.

[Static]

Nothing more than what has become the standard here....woulda, coulda, shoulda.

 

Everybody is a great GM when they're able to make decisions after seeing the future...

 

Name one long term contract on this team that looks good?

[Winchester]

I say we cut him and Lewis for the $4.4 million in cap space and put those savings toward signing Sean Smith and Eric Weddle.I think a secondary with those two,Jimmy,Hill and Arrington should get us back to atleast being in the teens in pass defense.Especially once Suggs comes back and improves our pass rush.

Suggs is going to light up QBs?? He will be 35 yrs old. And Coming off a knee injury. As for Webb it is a shame he got injured. However he was signed hastily after one great year. They could have waited to sign him

[usmccharles]

Suggs is going to light up QBs??Yes, hes one of the best pass rushers in the league 

 

He will be 35 yrs old. And Coming off a knee injury.You are aware of where the achilles is located right?

 

As for Webb it is a shame he got injured. However he was signed hastily after one great year. They could have waited to sign him Thats a catch 22, they wait he could of had another year of being a top corner and demanded more money.  The FO took the risk at locking down a great corner for a good price, but obviously didnt work out, easy to say now

 

 

Im a huge fan of Webb's, always have liked him and its a shame we never got to see the potential, he was heading towards being a shut down corner.  Didnt see this mentioned, but his return skills were awesome.  I believe he almost won us a playoff game against the steelers with a punt return that got called back.  I loved the signing at the time and i still like webb, hes playing consistent.  Is there any benefits or possibility that Webb can take a pay cut?