[News] Late For Work 10/28: NFL Admits Refs Made Mistake, Explains How

[thegooddoc456]

Best 1-6 team ever? C'mon, just stop with the nonsense. That we make these dramatic last minute gasps in every game doesn't mean jack squat.

[Jim Giampaoli]

The NFL always protecting their own. According to the VP of officiating, the zebra did no wrong because he was "distracted" probably by Urschel blocking his view. fell asleep on the playing field or more likely by our good looking cheer leaders doing their thing. Blandino's excuse reads like barnyard bs. This crap is hard to swallow.

[ravenstime]

Yeah, I know, but even though all our games (including losses) were close games at the end, that doesn't tell the whole story. We're getting marched up and down the field with a lot of these offenses, such as Cleveland and Oakland and the other day, Arizona. Most of our opponents have looked sharper and crisper on their routes and different plays called than we have. I honestly don't know how we were within one score at the end of all our games. Seems to me, we should have lost a few games by more. Maybe these teams are going into some type of prevent-mode. If so, they shouldn't do that. I think you can throw on our defense in the final 10 minutes as easily as you can in the 1st 50 minutes and I would do it, too. I wouldn't be satisfied with hoping we botch another last minute drive. That's how you get upset. That is, if it's even possible for the Ravens to upset a decent team (no offense Pitt., that game was handed to us).

[JamesA119]

@merryjman"I think what I like most about this losing season is that Bisciotti is not panicking and firing a bunch of staff the way othe rlosing teams have - he trusts the coaches and GM, and recognizes the obstacles the Ravens have had to face in terms of injury and dead cap money.

This is a rough ride so far, but we the fans should show the team and staff the same respect that Bisciotti has, and not start calling for so-and-so to be fired or released."

You have no idea. Even Ex-coach Billick didn't see it coming when Bisciotti fired him. I'm sure he is very disappointed with the team. Since the Super Bowl we're 19-20. We are a losing team. If we miss the playoff this year and continue to look like we have (a bad team, unbecoming of a Raven team), Harbaugh will automatically be on a hot seat going into next year.

[Ugly Ball]

1) You were commenting on an article in which they were apologizing for one specific play in the fourth quarter - not the entire game.

2) Come on stop blaming the refs for why we lost. Do you blame the refs for Tony Jefferson picking off Joe Flacco's pass? Bottom line is we had multiple opportunities to win the game and we didn't. That's been the theme of our season.

[salamander]

Here is an official rules reference to the Brandon Williams wrap up/bear hug tackle. Brandon had Chris Johnson restrained in a tight embrace for several long seconds, then Johnson jumps up afterwards and takes off. The NFL said that was a judgment call but per the rules, the play was dead. Article from RSR states the rules are... Section 2 Article 1 Dead Ball Declared (a) when a runner is contacted by an opponent and touches the ground with any part of his body other than hands or feet,......etc.....OR.... (  WHEN A RUNNER IS HELD OR OTHERWISE RESTRAINED SO THAT HIS FORWARD PROGRESS ENDS. The NFL states that it was a judgment call to not blow the whistle? How much more clearly can it be stated for the officials to know this dead ball rule, then comprehend and apply the rule? They had the duty to make the right and obvious call and/or confer if necessary to get the call right. The refs totally blew an easy, very clearly written rule. Fed up with incompetence and shame on the NFL for minimizing another colossal ref screw up.

Edited October 28, 2015 by salamander

[Ugly Ball]

I actually do blame the Refs for Tony Jefferson's pick not being a defensive interference penalty. It was an obvious pushoff and no flag! If it had been Gilmore pushing off while the ball was in the air, they would have called offensive pass interference. And it wasn't like it was an obscured off to the side part of a play. It was where the ball was going and everyone was looking. There is no excuse for the officiating in this game. I could see if the calls were bad going both ways, but it was obviously very skewed. For not seeing Urshal or the blatant pass interference, these officials had no problem clearly seeing a turnover that should have been called down.

I think Blandino should be called out on this by the owners and big changes need be coming !

[stampedehero]

We certainly are disturbed about the refs this year.  The NFL rules committee ought to simplify their system.  Ultimately, the fan pays for the game in some way or another. The upper tier NFL should see the importance of the fan and implement a television monitor system like Red Zone where they can observe their "cops",  judge skill levels and displine the idiots that ruin our day.. 

[stampedehero]

Here is an official rules reference to the Brandon Williams wrap up/bear hug tackle. Brandon had Chris Johnson restrained in a tight embrace for several long seconds, then Johnson jumps up afterwards and takes off. The NFL said that was a judgment call but per the rules, the play was dead. Article from RSR states the rules are... Section 2 Article 1 Dead Ball Declared (a) when a runner is contacted by an opponent and touches the ground with any part of his body other than hands or feet,......etc.....OR.... (  WHEN A RUNNER IS HELD OR OTHERWISE RESTRAINED SO THAT HIS FORWARD PROGRESS ENDS. The NFL states that it was a judgment call to not blow the whistle? How much more clearly can it be stated for the officials to know this dead ball rule, then comprehend and apply the rule? They had the duty to make the right and obvious call and/or confer if necessary to get the call right. The refs totally blew an easy, very clearly written rule. Fed up with incompetence and shame on the NFL for minimizing another colossal ref screw up.

Well Said!!  For example, in our stadium, we should put that page on the stadium screen right under the replay so the fans can see the rules in black and white. 

[stampedehero]

Today is national chocolate day.  Give your spouse a box.  After all she/he had to hear your tirade about the refs ruining the weekend.     

[stampedehero]

The NFL always protecting their own. According to the VP of officiating, the zebra did no wrong because he was "distracted" probably by Urschel blocking his view. fell asleep on the playing field or more likely by our good looking cheer leaders doing their thing. Blandino's excuse reads like barnyard bs. This crap is hard to swallow.

Roger that

[Swift 1]

I don't blame the refs on the Chris Johnson run. As a player you should know to play to the whistle. Why weren't any Ravens tackling CJ after he was brought down? Why should Brandon Will. be the only one to tackle him? Overall, I feel that the D has lost its swagger. We are playing like wussies.

I do. It is ref's job to protect the players. CJ could of been killed on that play

[thegooddoc456]

The way I see it, NFL officiating should be the least of our worries.

[waybeyond]

Yes the Ref looked right at Urshel as he reported as an eligible receiver. HE LOOKED DIRECTLY AT HIM. I don't wanna hear any more BS. THis has now become the National Fixed League. THere are way too many bad calls on too many teams too many times for this to be coincidental. You notice the Patriots rarely, if ever, have calls go against them. I guess that's what happens when the Pats owner is in bed with the commissioner of the NFL.

[Tenacious Faulker]

NFL officiating is suspect and they have lost integrity. Whether they are incompetent or blatantly biased (paid off?), NFL needs to investigate and correct the problem.

True.  It's MORE than just suspect though.  It's outright horrendous.  There have been a number of retired refs in the past who've publically stated that they favored their favorite teams/players.  They've said that if they mistakenly penalized a team, they would wait a few plays to make another BS, ticky-tack call to "balance" it out - as if that really works. 

 

The main issue is that the tome that is the NFL rule book is so bloated with legaleze to define every aspect of the game that your almost literally have to be a lawyer in order be an official, a coach, or, at the least, a paralegal as a player.  Then try and apply ALL of that info at game-speed.  It's an absolutely ludicrous prospect.

 

Then there is the who cheating debate.  There's always been suspicions of bookies paying underhanded refs to shave points so teams cover the spread or win outright.  They are part time employees and could therefore, be easily tempted with the prospect of more money.  NOW that these one week fanatasy leagues are spriniging up everywhere there is even more opportunity and motive for them to cheat than before.

 

The NFL has arrived at a CROSSROADS.  It is either going to have to dramatically pare back these rules and let the players play and (like the UFC) give the refs more judgement on calls surrounding player safety (i,e, make them a full time NFL employee with a salary that makes them professional and uncorruptable), OR,

 

Start phasing out the imperfect human element in favor of more cameras and sensors to make the calls as absolute as the league wants them to be.  In this day and age the technology is there to put them in balls, helmets, unis, pylons and posts and turf down to the 1" lines of every field.  Even at an expense of $1-3 million per stadium, that is a trifling amount to the loss of integrity perceived by NFL fans and sponsors who WILL eventually spend their time and money elsewhere if they feel their team lost on poor officiating.

[BigUgly]

The refs are now becoming a focal point of the game, to the point where one has to hold their breath after every play waiting (especially the Ravens) on a ref to insert themselves into the story line with a flag.

We long for the return of players like Ray and Ed, but the fact is they would be flagged on nearly every play in the modern NFL. They say its for the safety of the players, but I doubt the lists of the injured are any less this year than they've been in years past. If anything, it seems as though there are more injuries in the NFL.

So well done refs. Nobody wants to see the unscripted drama of sport, they want to see the very scripted drama that is CSI NFL.

[terpmaniac]

What truly angers me about that call is the Ravens did EVERYTHING RIGHT, as far as bringing Urchel as an eligible receiver and it STILL DIDNT MATTER. Now if the Patriots had made such a move NO FLAG WOULD HAVE BEEN THROWN...you can BOOK IT! Would not have happened.

[rmcjacket23]

True.  It's MORE than just suspect though.  It's outright horrendous.  There have been a number of retired refs in the past who've publically stated that they favored their favorite teams/players.  They've said that if they mistakenly penalized a team, they would wait a few plays to make another BS, ticky-tack call to "balance" it out - as if that really works. 

 

The main issue is that the tome that is the NFL rule book is so bloated with legaleze to define every aspect of the game that your almost literally have to be a lawyer in order be an official, a coach, or, at the least, a paralegal as a player.  Then try and apply ALL of that info at game-speed.  It's an absolutely ludicrous prospect.

 

Then there is the who cheating debate.  There's always been suspicions of bookies paying underhanded refs to shave points so teams cover the spread or win outright.  They are part time employees and could therefore, be easily tempted with the prospect of more money.  NOW that these one week fanatasy leagues are spriniging up everywhere there is even more opportunity and motive for them to cheat than before.

 

The NFL has arrived at a CROSSROADS.  It is either going to have to dramatically pare back these rules and let the players play and (like the UFC) give the refs more judgement on calls surrounding player safety (i,e, make them a full time NFL employee with a salary that makes them professional and uncorruptable), OR,

 

Start phasing out the imperfect human element in favor of more cameras and sensors to make the calls as absolute as the league wants them to be.  In this day and age the technology is there to put them in balls, helmets, unis, pylons and posts and turf down to the 1" lines of every field.  Even at an expense of $1-3 million per stadium, that is a trifling amount to the loss of integrity perceived by NFL fans and sponsors who WILL eventually spend their time and money elsewhere if they feel their team lost on poor officiating.

LOL, couple problems I have with this...

 

1. Can you please provide articles or direct quotes to the retired officials that you said have said such things? Not saying they haven't, but my guess is that like maybe one of them said something that sort of sounded like that and fans are pretending like it applies to everybody.

 

2. They're not at a crossroads, because its clearly not a big issue. Fans like to blow everything out of proportion based on whatever the flavor of the week is.

 

For the NFL to be at a "crossroads" on an issue, it 100% must affect their bottom line. If there's one thing I know for certain, its that poor officiating isn't affecting their bottom line. I don't know a single person on the planet who has stopped watching games or attending games this season because the officiating hasn't met their standard. 

 

Fans always love to express outrage over integrity (an overused word... this isn't even remotely an integrity issue), yet they are never, ever willing to actually do anything about said integrity. The maximum amount of discontent they will show is going on a fanboard and complaining about it... that's it. The NFL doesn't respond to said things.

 

The NFL didn't respond to the domestic violence problem because fans went on message boards and complained about integrity... they responded because sponsors, who pay the NFL tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, expressed dissatisfaction with their policies. That gets action going.

 

Fans have been thinking their teams have lost due to officiating for decades... nothing has changed, and viewership is up. Thinking now all of the sudden its going to change is naive. And sponsors could care one bit less about who wins games or about officiating. As long as their desired demographic of people is watching games, sponsors are happy. I promise you M&T Bank doesn't care one bit whether or not the Ravens gets screwed out of a game because of officials.

 

3. If you think the NFL can completely transform officiating to 100% technology based involving sensors and technology, $1-3M per stadium wouldn't even get a tech company out of bed. Without getting a direct quote, you'd probably spend in excess of $10M per team per year, and likely much more. Zero percent chance you convince an owner to invest in such a product when really isn't that big of a problem to solve.

[Tenacious Faulker]

LOL, couple problems I have with this...

 

1. Can you please provide articles or direct quotes to the retired officials that you said have said such things? Not saying they haven't, but my guess is that like maybe one of them said something that sort of sounded like that and fans are pretending like it applies to everybody.

 

2. They're not at a crossroads, because its clearly not a big issue. Fans like to blow everything out of proportion based on whatever the flavor of the week is.

 

For the NFL to be at a "crossroads" on an issue, it 100% must affect their bottom line. If there's one thing I know for certain, its that poor officiating isn't affecting their bottom line. I don't know a single person on the planet who has stopped watching games or attending games this season because the officiating hasn't met their standard. 

 

Fans always love to express outrage over integrity (an overused word... this isn't even remotely an integrity issue), yet they are never, ever willing to actually do anything about said integrity. The maximum amount of discontent they will show is going on a fanboard and complaining about it... that's it. The NFL doesn't respond to said things.

 

The NFL didn't respond to the domestic violence problem because fans went on message boards and complained about integrity... they responded because sponsors, who pay the NFL tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, expressed dissatisfaction with their policies. That gets action going.

 

Fans have been thinking their teams have lost due to officiating for decades... nothing has changed, and viewership is up. Thinking now all of the sudden its going to change is naive. And sponsors could care one bit less about who wins games or about officiating. As long as their desired demographic of people is watching games, sponsors are happy. I promise you M&T Bank doesn't care one bit whether or not the Ravens gets screwed out of a game because of officials.

 

3. If you think the NFL can completely transform officiating to 100% technology based involving sensors and technology, $1-3M per stadium wouldn't even get a tech company out of bed. Without getting a direct quote, you'd probably spend in excess of $10M per team per year, and likely much more. Zero percent chance you convince an owner to invest in such a product when really isn't that big of a problem to solve.

1)  You go look for it.  There was freaking' book written about a decade ago that said they did those things.  Jerry Markbreit. 

 

2)  If the NFL is not at a crossroads then its coming to one soon.  I don't know what you think a crossroads is, but this WILL affect their bottom line and not even by 100%.  A mere errosion and even a small loss of market share to a nother sporting league is crossroads enough.  When the league touts "integrity of the game" as a reason for 8 out of 10 of its decisions, doesn't gteting the call right count?  I mean the problem is gettiing worse.  It's all over the news each week now.  Megatron's catch, Dez's catch, the Fail Mary, Forsett's TD run vs the Lions on T-day 2012, the non-calls on the Pats for players not declaring as eligible last year, and many more that have changes the outcomes of wins.  There were 3 controversial calls alone in last week's game against the Cardinals that altered the course of the game - Urschel's catch, Ross's non-fumble and CJ2k's stop.  

 

3)  Putting words in other poeple's mouth much?  Go back and read it.  I didn't say 100%.  There will always be room for officials, just in an altered capacity.  In a game of inches the refs can't see everything.  In a league that demands game integrity the refs are failing because they can;t get all the facts straight.  Even their fail-safes in NY failed.  The tech is there to apply to the game to help officials with the tough calls.  They will alwasy needs a few guys on the field for placing the ball, illegal formations, calling holding and false starts and the like.  But when it comes to out of bounds, measuring for a first down seeing if the carrier was actually down, or if the ball was stripped/caught or whatever (i.e. plays that are too fast and getting the most mistakes) then use the tech.  The refs will be there to look at the data which will be more irrefuteable than instant replay.

[rmcjacket23]

1)  You go look for it.  There was Freakin' book written about a decade ago that said they did those things.  Jerry Markbreit. 

 

2)  If the NFL is not at a crossroads then its coming to one soon.  I don't know what you think a crossroads is, but this WILL affect their bottom line and not even by 100%.  A mere errosion and even a small loss of market share to a nother sporting league is crossroads enough.  When the league touts "integrity of the game" as a reason for 8 out of 10 of its decisions, doesn't gteting the call right count?  I mean the problem is gettiing worse.  It's all over the news each week now.  Megatron's catch, Dez's catch, the Fail Mary, Forsett's TD run vs the Lions on T-day 2012, the non-calls on the Pats for players not declaring as eligible last year, and many more that have changes the outcomes of wins.  There were 3 controversial calls alone in last week's game against the Cardinals that altered the course of the game - Urschel's catch, Ross's non-fumble and CJ2k's stop.  

 

3)  Putting words in other poeple's mouth much?  Go back and read it.  I didn't say 100%.  There will always be room for officials, just in an altered capacity.  In a game of inches the refs can't see everything.  In a league that demands game integrity the refs are failing because they can;t get all the facts straight.  Even their fail-safes in NY failed.  The tech is there to apply to the game to help officials with the tough calls.  They will alwasy needs a few guys on the field for placing the ball, illegal formations, calling holding and false starts and the like.  But when it comes to out of bounds, measuring for a first down seeing if the carrier was actually down, or if the ball was stripped/caught or whatever (i.e. plays that are too fast and getting the most mistakes) then use the tech.  The refs will be there to look at the data which will be more irrefuteable than instant replay.

1. Yeah, I'm not going to go research something that YOU claimed. I would expect that when people make a claim, they can back it up. If they can't, I don't spend time trying to prove them right. Otherwise, I just read it off as "fan-speak".

 

2. Have you ever noticed that the NFL generally TALKS about integrity but never practices it? Why is that? Because they tell the fans what they want to hear... that's it. The problem's not getting worse... its the same as it always was. Its the flavor of the week for teams that lose, nothing more. I can go find countless blog postings on here from years ago about poor officiating (probably all of them in losses... naturally), how the Ravens got screwed, etc. If there's no major screw ups from an officiating standpoint this week (which there typically isn't), this whole "the integrity of the game issue" will fade into oblivion, just like all the other flavor of the week problems fans cook up will. That's funny... I would think something that's such a massive integrity problem like this wouldn't blow over in a week, but this one will, which is an indictment of just how little an integrity problem it is.

 

The most amusing thing to me is... of the the three calls you listed, only one of them can actually be proven to be wrong. The rest, as usual, are just typical fan PERCEPTIONS of subjective calls that can't be proven right or wrong. Any video or still frame that anybody can produce of a knee down with ball in hand can be countered by a video or still frame with a knee not down with ball out... that's called subjective. Just like this entire laughable concept of fans pretending like they're experts on forward progress. You're arguing about calls that you literally can't prove right or wrong... that's why the margin of error is so small, and that's why its a waste of time to invest time and effort into subjective decisions that can't be altered by anything.

 

If we are going to throw fits as fans over officials missing an eligible receiver call, then we might as well just go ahead and throw in the towel as fans. By that logic, every single missed call, no matter how big, small, impact, or timing of the game has equal affect on the outcome of a game, because there's no possible way that every event that occurs after it is the exact same. 

 

Its a crutch. Its like blaming losses on strength of schedule. Bad teams always do it, and good teams never talk about it. Its just a bedtime story to make fans feel good at night.

 

3. Again, you dance around the real issue. If you think NFL teams are going to be willing to commit tens of millions of dollars to something that probably isn't a problem to begin with, you're naive. Some of these teams don't even profits tens of millions of dollars a year, and you think they are going to gladly hand over that kind of money annually so that officials blow like one call less a game? That's just terrible business any way you look at it.

Edited October 30, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[Ravensfolyfe]

When we play hard and smart we still get flags,seems like we can't get a break with these flags.

[Tenacious Faulker]

1. Yeah, I'm not going to go research something that YOU claimed. I would expect that when people make a claim, they can back it up. If they can't, I don't spend time trying to prove them right. Otherwise, I just read it off as "fan-speak".

 

2. Have you ever noticed that the NFL generally TALKS about integrity but never practices it? Why is that? Because they tell the fans what they want to hear... that's it. The problem's not getting worse... its the same as it always was. Its the flavor of the week for teams that lose, nothing more. I can go find countless blog postings on here from years ago about poor officiating (probably all of them in losses... naturally), how the Ravens got screwed, etc. If there's no major screw ups from an officiating standpoint this week (which there typically isn't), this whole "the integrity of the game issue" will fade into oblivion, just like all the other flavor of the week problems fans cook up will. That's funny... I would think something that's such a massive integrity problem like this wouldn't blow over in a week, but this one will, which is an indictment of just how little an integrity problem it is.

 

The most amusing thing to me is... of the the three calls you listed, only one of them can actually be proven to be wrong. The rest, as usual, are just typical fan PERCEPTIONS of subjective calls that can't be proven right or wrong. Any video or still frame that anybody can produce of a knee down with ball in hand can be countered by a video or still frame with a knee not down with ball out... that's called subjective. Just like this entire laughable concept of fans pretending like they're experts on forward progress. You're arguing about calls that you literally can't prove right or wrong... that's why the margin of error is so small, and that's why its a waste of time to invest time and effort into subjective decisions that can't be altered by anything.

 

If we are going to throw fits as fans over officials missing an eligible receiver call, then we might as well just go ahead and throw in the towel as fans. By that logic, every single missed call, no matter how big, small, impact, or timing of the game has equal affect on the outcome of a game, because there's no possible way that every event that occurs after it is the exact same. 

 

Its a crutch. Its like blaming losses on strength of schedule. Bad teams always do it, and good teams never talk about it. Its just a bedtime story to make fans feel good at night.

 

3. Again, you dance around the real issue. If you think NFL teams are going to be willing to commit tens of millions of dollars to something that probably isn't a problem to begin with, you're naive. Some of these teams don't even profits tens of millions of dollars a year, and you think they are going to gladly hand over that kind of money annually so that officials blow like one call less a game? That's just terrible business any way you look at it.

 

1. Yeah, I'm not going to go research something that YOU claimed. I would expect that when people make a claim, they can back it up. If they can't, I don't spend time trying to prove them right. Otherwise, I just read it off as "fan-speak".

 

2. Have you ever noticed that the NFL generally TALKS about integrity but never practices it? Why is that? Because they tell the fans what they want to hear... that's it. The problem's not getting worse... its the same as it always was. Its the flavor of the week for teams that lose, nothing more. I can go find countless blog postings on here from years ago about poor officiating (probably all of them in losses... naturally), how the Ravens got screwed, etc. If there's no major screw ups from an officiating standpoint this week (which there typically isn't), this whole "the integrity of the game issue" will fade into oblivion, just like all the other flavor of the week problems fans cook up will. That's funny... I would think something that's such a massive integrity problem like this wouldn't blow over in a week, but this one will, which is an indictment of just how little an integrity problem it is.

 

The most amusing thing to me is... of the the three calls you listed, only one of them can actually be proven to be wrong. The rest, as usual, are just typical fan PERCEPTIONS of subjective calls that can't be proven right or wrong. Any video or still frame that anybody can produce of a knee down with ball in hand can be countered by a video or still frame with a knee not down with ball out... that's called subjective. Just like this entire laughable concept of fans pretending like they're experts on forward progress. You're arguing about calls that you literally can't prove right or wrong... that's why the margin of error is so small, and that's why its a waste of time to invest time and effort into subjective decisions that can't be altered by anything.

 

If we are going to throw fits as fans over officials missing an eligible receiver call, then we might as well just go ahead and throw in the towel as fans. By that logic, every single missed call, no matter how big, small, impact, or timing of the game has equal affect on the outcome of a game, because there's no possible way that every event that occurs after it is the exact same. 

 

Its a crutch. Its like blaming losses on strength of schedule. Bad teams always do it, and good teams never talk about it. Its just a bedtime story to make fans feel good at night.

 

3. Again, you dance around the real issue. If you think NFL teams are going to be willing to commit tens of millions of dollars to something that probably isn't a problem to begin with, you're naive. Some of these teams don't even profits tens of millions of dollars a year, and you think they are going to gladly hand over that kind of money annually so that officials blow like one call less a game? That's just terrible business any way you look at it.

1)  It's a book, bruh.  I'm not going to read you a bedtime story.  Because it isn't a spoon-fed internet byte or 141 character twitter quote doesn't make it less true, but I undertand that it may to some who are either too lazy to do so or who simply don't have any real argument against it.  Remeber, YOU refuted me.  I operated under info that I picked somewhere along the line.  Because you disagree, the onus is on YOU to (not me) to prove it otherwise.  Spend less time online and pick up a book or pipe down until you have something of substance to add.

 

Sometime people need to LEARN TO SPEAK WITH INTENTION, indstead of FOR ATTENTION.

 

2)  The rest is now irrelevant.  I really don't care to discuss anything else with someone who's more likely trolling than an actual adult discussion.