Is John Harbaugh on the Hot Seat?

[PurpleCity5]

Shout out to Bobby Engram and Richard Angulo, I think they've done a good job. Especially Angulo, lot of people have been giving Brooks and Monachino love but he's been doing a good job here. 

[atomicfront]

Only 12 coaches in the NFL have been coaching with their current team more than 3 years.  Of those coaches only one has failed to win at least 5 games in a season.  That is Marvin Lewis who has won 4 games in a season and has kept his job.  

 

A good comparison to Harbaugh would be Andy Reid.  Had tons of success. 9 playoffs appearances in 11 years.  Has a 4-12 record and is fired.  

[jazz1988]

I don't think Harbaugh should be on the hot-seat, but he had no hold in Perriman's injury debacle. He def. needs to be more upfront, it's obvious he doesn't really want to have the responsibilities of dealing with injuries and such, but you've got to do a better job than that. I honestly feel for Perriman. This wasn't fair to the guy. 

 

Not telling the fans or the media the full extent of Perriman injury  could had simply be out of respect for Perriman. Maybe Perriman made a request by asking Harbaugh to keep what had really happened in house. What ever the setback was the doctors must have still assured Harbaugh that he still had a good chance to play but for some reason Perriman injury just took longer than usual to heal. 

 

It doesn't make sense to keep Perriman on the roster this long if the doctors were not telling Harbaugh he can still play this season. I'm sure Perriman being a first round pick took it hard and didn't want to miss his rookie season at all.

[rmcjacket23]

Only 12 coaches in the NFL have been coaching with their current team more than 3 years.  Of those coaches only one has failed to win at least 5 games in a season.  That is Marvin Lewis who has won 4 games in a season and has kept his job.  

 

A good comparison to Harbaugh would be Andy Reid.  Had tons of success. 9 playoffs appearances in 11 years.  Has a 4-12 record and is fired.

9 of 14 seasons, went 8-8 the year before the 4-12 season, and never won a SB. 0 playoff wins his final 4 years.

[Guest]

Only 12 coaches in the NFL have been coaching with their current team more than 3 years.  Of those coaches only one has failed to win at least 5 games in a season.  That is Marvin Lewis who has won 4 games in a season and has kept his job.  

 

A good comparison to Harbaugh would be Andy Reid.  Had tons of success. 9 playoffs appearances in 11 years.  Has a 4-12 record and is fired.  

 

A huge amount of early success not unlike Harbaugh. Goes to the playoffs in 9 of his first 12 years. Is in the Championship game in year 6.  Harbaugh is in year 8 after winning the Championship in year 5.  But did Harbaugh win it, or was it that core we no longer have?  Also, Harbaugh is going to miss the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years.  What kind of record we end up with very well could determine the outcome.  The patterns are not dissimilar.

 

Watch Harbaughs gambles...that's one area hes failing.  We kick that field goal vs the Jags and we are 3-6 and the dream is alive.  But then you could say, we didn't deserve the Steeler game.

[PurpleCity5]

Not telling the fans or the media the full extent of Perriman injury could had simply be out of respect for Perriman. Maybe Perriman made a request by asking Harbaugh to keep what had really happened in house. What ever the setback was the doctors must have still assured Harbaugh that he still had a good chance to play but for some reason Perriman injury just took longer than usual to heal.

It doesn't make sense to keep Perriman on the roster this long if the doctors were not telling Harbaugh he can still play this season. I'm sure Perriman being a first round pick took it hard and didn't want to miss his rookie season at all.

I don't know why he would want that. Maybe it was at the respect of his agent but there were a lot of people questioning his work ethic, determination, and drive; there could be a chance that even the players would question that as well, if you were Perriman you wouldn't want that.

[Cillmatic]

Since I just said it on the other thread I'll say it on the thread it's actually useful on.

I'm tired of Harbaugh's reign.

From how he handled the Perriman stuff, to the treating grown men like children, to the singling out of players when the ENTIRE team did awful, the fact that he really doesn't do anything on the sideline except be a semi-effective hype man, to the fact that he HATES high energy leaders in the locker room- I'm done with his current practices.

Either he changes or goes. Idk.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Cillmatic

[rmcjacket23]

Since I just said it on the other thread I'll say it on the thread it's actually useful on.

I'm tired of Harbaugh's reign.

From how he handled the Perriman stuff, to the treating grown men like children, to the singling out of players when the ENTIRE team did awful, the fact that he really doesn't do anything on the sideline except be a semi-effective hype man, to the fact that he HATES high energy leaders in the locker room- I'm done with his current practices.

Either he changes or goes. Idk.

Or neither happens and he just returns to winning a ton of games, which is all this entire discussion is about.

When the best argument for firing him is a fan perceived mishandling of an injured player that never did anybody any harm, you know he's a good coach

[PolishRifle]

Since I just said it on the other thread I'll say it on the thread it's actually useful on.

I'm tired of Harbaugh's reign.

From how he handled the Perriman stuff, to the treating grown men like children, to the singling out of players when the ENTIRE team did awful, the fact that he really doesn't do anything on the sideline except be a semi-effective hype man, to the fact that he HATES high energy leaders in the locker room- I'm done with his current practices.

Either he changes or goes. Idk.

 

How do you know how much work John Harbaugh does off and on-field for the game? By watching some SoundFX episodes? And does Harbaugh really hate High-Energy leaders? What about Sizzle? Why did we get SSS, then!?! Is that still about the Bernard Pollard release? Last time I checked, he's not playing in the league any more.

 

 

 

Or neither happens and he just returns to winning a ton of games, which is all this entire discussion is about.

When the best argument for firing him is a fan perceived mishandling of an injured player that never did anybody any harm, you know he's a good coach

 

Naw man, you don't get it! John can't win without Ray and Ed. That's why we almost won against the eventual SB champions last season in the playoffs.

 

The fanbase suffers from a case of collective amnesia, I guess. It's like a soap opera, but it's filled with crying football fans.

Edited November 20, 2015 by PolishRifle

[GrimCoconut]

I definitely don't want to fire Harbaugh. I'm not even interested in doing it if it happens next year. I'd only be for it if he truly loses the locker room and can't recover from it. He's a proven head coach. I recall Belichick had same stuff said about him and his tactics but he's crazy successful.

[Cillmatic]

How do you know how much work John Harbaugh does off and on-field for the game? By watching some SoundFX episodes? And does Harbaugh really hate High-Energy leaders? What about Sizzle? Why did we get SSS, then!?! Is that still about the Bernard Pollard release? Last time I checked, he's not playing in the league any more.

Naw man, you don't get it! John can't win without Ray and Ed. That's why we almost won against the eventual SB champions last season in the playoffs.

He's not really a X/O's guy, isn't really a Defensive or offensive coach like a BB type coach, after the the infamous Mutiny idk if he likes having "too many" in the locker room. The fact that Ray coming back was the only way to gain control of the team couldn't have been a good feeling for the HC. Edited November 20, 2015 by Cillmatic

[PolishRifle]

I definitely don't want to fire Harbaugh. I'm not even interested in doing it if it happens next year. I'd only be for it if he truly loses the locker room and can't recover from it. He's a proven head coach. I recall Belichick had same stuff said about him and his tactics but he's crazy successful.

 

Where does the "lose the locker room"-stuff come from? Aren't we blowing the whole sticker thing out of proportions. Yeah, it's kinda silly, but I don't recall our team playing without effort this season, no matter how bad it got. Every game came down to the wire. Yeah, we ended up losing, but you can still see that "play like a Raven" toughness about them.

 

And that is with a questionable secondary, without our best pass rusher, an OL that is constantly changing, without reliable receivers with a new OC.

 

I feel this season is more about (and I might get some flak for that) more about Ozzie misses recently. We gambled big on BP and it didn't work out thanks to his lingering injury. Now we're paying for overlooking that WR position for so long. That Elam pick was not that great either. Just sayin.

[GrimCoconut]

Where does the "lose the locker room"-stuff come from? Aren't we blowing the whole sticker thing out of proportions. Yeah, it's kinda silly, but I don't recall our team playing without effort this season, no matter how bad it got. Every game came down to the wire. Yeah, we ended up losing, but you can still see that "play like a Raven" toughness about them.

And that is with a questionable secondary, without our best pass rusher, an OL that is constantly changing, without reliable receivers with a new OC.

I feel this season is more about (and I might get some flak for that) more about Ozzie misses recently. We gambled big on BP and it didn't work out thanks to his lingering injury. Now we're paying for overlooking that WR position for so long. That Elam pick was not that great either. Just sayin.

I never said John Harbaugh lost the locker room but you can interpret my comment however you'd like.

[PolishRifle]

I never said John Harbaugh lost the locker room but you can interpret my comment however you'd like.

 

I guess you did write "I'd only be for it if he truly loses the locker room and can't recover from it.". My bad. I just think, that we're really overreacting as a fanbase right now.

[GrimCoconut]

I guess you did write "I'd only be for it if he truly loses the locker room and can't recover from it.". My bad. I just think, that we're really overreacting as a fanbase right now.

I don't know. Maybe. I've supported Harbaugh a lot and I like him a lot as a coach. I won't say I'm not pissed off at him for how he handled the Perriman situation. I don't like how he's essentially thrown guys under the bus at times. I also don't like the whole sticker gate. Lol. I do legitimately wonder if he's getting to guys in a bad way, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him. He needs to look in the mirror, though. He's also a part of the problem here in one way or another.

[edthehead]

I guess you did write "I'd only be for it if he truly loses the locker room and can't recover from it.". My bad. I just think, that we're really overreacting as a fanbase right now.

 

 

I don't know. Maybe. I've supported Harbaugh a lot and I like him a lot as a coach. I won't say I'm not pissed off at him for how he handled the Perriman situation. I don't like how he's essentially thrown guys under the bus at times. I also don't like the whole sticker gate. Lol. I do legitimately wonder if he's getting to guys in a bad way, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him. He needs to look in the mirror, though. He's also a part of the problem here in one way or another.

you both make great points,

 

     my thoughts are this ,, he is the head coach, so ultimately he is held responsible and should have  accountability for what is going on , the year we went 8-8 well he got a pass then cause we lost ICONS,, HARB is a cut off of andy reid the only difference is he is a special teams coach this is why maybe our ST is so darn good,lol,,

     the team he won a superbowl with had a core of players combine that with a decent QB ,, and you get a superbowl,what would BRIAN have accomplished with a QB (and he tried to get one).

      HARB wanted his own team but without him being a X/O type of coach he needs a supporting cast ,, which is the reason it becomes difficult for him to terminate a coordination,, casing point jim caldwell has 0 experience being a OC, 

first year was great cause he had no clue what he was doing , he was unpredictable that was his edge, the following year he had to game plan for a season and that is when it broke down.

     HARB is a good guy and as long as he is our HC,, I will support him,,, but he should not have been our HC from the start,

my last point is this every team has an identity they all have that crazy player . We have neither,, we are no longer a defensive team , we do not win coming off of a bye week ,, we do not protect our house any more ,

and the sad thing is we really do have a good defense not great but good  much better than continuously loosing by 3,4,5 points,

       SORRY WAY TOO LONG,,  

[Florida Ravens Fan]

you both make great points,

 

     my thoughts are this ,, he is the head coach, so ultimately he is held responsible and should have  accountability for what is going on , the year we went 8-8 well he got a pass then cause we lost ICONS,, HARB is a cut off of andy reid the only difference is he is a special teams coach this is why maybe our ST is so darn good,lol,,

     the team he won a superbowl with had a core of players combine that with a decent QB ,, and you get a superbowl,what would BRIAN have accomplished with a QB (and he tried to get one).

      HARB wanted his own team but without him being a X/O type of coach he needs a supporting cast ,, which is the reason it becomes difficult for him to terminate a coordination,, casing point jim caldwell has 0 experience being a OC, 

first year was great cause he had no clue what he was doing , he was unpredictable that was his edge, the following year he had to game plan for a season and that is when it broke down.

     HARB is a good guy and as long as he is our HC,, I will support him,,, but he should not have been our HC from the start,

my last point is this every team has an identity they all have that crazy player . We have neither,, we are no longer a defensive team , we do not win coming off of a bye week ,, we do not protect our house any more ,

and the sad thing is we really do have a good defense not great but good  much better than continuously loosing by 3,4,5 points,

       SORRY WAY TOO LONG,,  

Just curious why do you always use ,,,,,??

[edthehead]

Just curious why do you always use ,,,,,??

maybe i was that athlete that just played football and ran with ladies for 5 long good years,,,,or maybe I need glasses, what did you do,, we are talking sports ok,,, 

Edited November 21, 2015 by edthehead

[edthehead]

Just curious why do you always use ,,,,,??

No stickers for you today, Mr, smarts ,,,,, sorry I could not resist,, this is all just fun 

[jazz1988]

He's not really a X/O's guy, isn't really a Defensive or offensive coach like a BB type coach, after the the infamous Mutiny idk if he likes having "too many" in the locker room. The fact that Ray coming back was the only way to gain control of the team couldn't have been a good feeling for the HC.

 

Harbaugh never been a coordinator before but that doesn't mean he doesn't have good knowledge about offense and defense. i think he's knows more about defense than anything but honestly i really can care less about him not being  similar to The Patriots head coach

 

Out of any team in The NFl The Ravens are the only team The Patriots don't want to see especially in the playoffs. Harbaugh really doesn't get the credit like he should and that's crazy to me. To my understanding the mutiny happened after they  got destroyed by The Texans and from what I read Harbaugh handled the mutiny very well. Some said they were surprised how well he was able to handle the mutiny  because there were players really coming at his neck .

 

After the mutiny The Ravens went on to win enough  games to get them into the playoffs along with making a genius move by   making Jim Caldwell the offensive coordinator(Yes that was Harbaugh decision)  at  the later portion of the season and  Ray Lewis didn't return to the team until the playoffs against The Colts.  

 

 Ray Lewis was not on the sidelines when The Ravens went on to win five games after their bye week in 2012 and  I highly doubt it was Ray Lewis or The Ravens owner telling  Harbaugh that Jim Caldwell would be the better candidate for the offensive coordinator job after firing Cam Cameron.

Edited November 21, 2015 by jazz1988

[January J]

A huge amount of early success not unlike Harbaugh. Goes to the playoffs in 9 of his first 12 years. Is in the Championship game in year 6.  Harbaugh is in year 8 after winning the Championship in year 5.  But did Harbaugh win it, or was it that core we no longer have?  Also, Harbaugh is going to miss the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years.  What kind of record we end up with very well could determine the outcome.  The patterns are not dissimilar.

 

Watch Harbaughs gambles...that's one area hes failing.  We kick that field goal vs the Jags and we are 3-6 and the dream is alive.  But then you could say, we didn't deserve the Steeler game.

or maybe tucker misses another field goal, the jags get good field position and march down and kick the feild goal to legitimately get the win. Or maybe he makes the feild goal then they score a touchdown on the kick return? The nfl is a cruel business and it's hard to win games when your team lacks discipline.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

The answer is no.... Still no.

Another losing season then yes. He'll be on the hot seat.

And then he'll immediately get hired elsewhere when fired. Yeah no. I don't see him being fired this year.

[rmcjacket23]

He's not really a X/O's guy, isn't really a Defensive or offensive coach like a BB type coach, after the the infamous Mutiny idk if he likes having "too many" in the locker room. The fact that Ray coming back was the only way to gain control of the team couldn't have been a good feeling for the HC.

None of that explains 2014.

Also, the alleged mutiny didn't actually happen. That's a popular myth.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Moderator 3

[frozen joe flacco fan]

Where does the "lose the locker room"-stuff come from? Aren't we blowing the whole sticker thing out of proportions. Yeah, it's kinda silly, but I don't recall our team playing without effort this season, no matter how bad it got. Every game came down to the wire. Yeah, we ended up losing, but you can still see that "play like a Raven" toughness about them.

 

And that is with a questionable secondary, without our best pass rusher, an OL that is constantly changing, without reliable receivers with a new OC.

 

I feel this season is more about (and I might get some flak for that) more about Ozzie misses recently. We gambled big on BP and it didn't work out thanks to his lingering injury. Now we're paying for overlooking that WR position for so long. That Elam pick was not that great either. Just sayin.

 

With all due respect, I think this season is more about injuries to key players. Wouldn't you love to have a picture autographed by all of our players who have been injured so far? It would include Dennis Pitta, Steve Smith Sr.,Terrell Suggs, Justin Forsett, Joe Flacco, Breshad Perriman, Eugene Monroe and Jeremy Zuttah. That's a pretty impressive list. One of the teams that played Sunday night in the Bengals vs. Cardinals game had only used 51 roster players so far in the entire season. How many have we used?  

 

I just can't get giddy over the jobs Coach Harbaugh and the GM have done this year but the injuries have been devastating to any chance we might have had of limping into the playoffs. Injuries aside, had we taken care of business against the Jags last week, we'd still be headed into Cleveland with at least a 50/50 chance to get to a 5-6 record. It just seems far too coincidental that our two home victories have coincided with locker-room pep talks by Ray & Ed. I'm not sure we would have won without them. Pride is a powerful motivator. 

 

When no less than 18 & counting out of our current 53 roster players have landed in the roost from free agency or trades with other teams, its hard to cultivate that "play like a Raven" mentality in all of our players. At times, it appears some of our players have been playing like they don't want to get hurt and it may have contributed to the rash of injuries we've sustained. For example, our O-lineman (#74?) who rolled Joe's leg was knocked on his keaster by the opposing team. It was not a good look for someone who is supposed to be protecting Joe's blind side. Granted, he is a back-up player but that's not an excuse.  

 

We are losing for all the reasons you mentioned and then some but I don't think its blasphemy to question whether or not the Head coach has lost control of his locker-room. Great coaches tend to make adjustments in the locker-room and win games in the second half. It seems like our team does not emerge from the locker-room with any sense of urgency until its apparent that we're in danger of falling behind or losing. Coach Harbaugh may eventually find the right combination of players who want to "play like a Raven" but its going to take awhile now 'cause we have some big gaps on the offense and defense.  

[JEEPercreepermd]

He's not really a X/O's guy, isn't really a Defensive or offensive coach like a BB type coach, after the the infamous Mutiny idk if he likes having "too many" in the locker room. The fact that Ray coming back was the only way to gain control of the team couldn't have been a good feeling for the HC.

Where do you get your information that he's not an X's and O's guy? Because he wasn't a coordinator before being a coach?

He wouldn't have been hired if he didn't know the game in and out. Also the statement about having Ray come back to gain control of the team is a bit off base.

A team that has quit doesn't have a chance to win EVERY single game that they've played. Even with all of the missing starters, they play every game tough and compete down to the wire. T

They are losing those close games because they have a HUGE deficiency in talent right now.

If anything, Give Harbaugh some credit for having this team still playing to win,

[JEEPercreepermd]

The answer is no.... Still no.

Another losing season then yes. He'll be on the hot seat.

And then he'll immediately get hired elsewhere when fired. Yeah no. I don't see him being fired this year.

Realistically, it will take a few in a row to get him fired. Harbaugh isn't going anywhere.

The small portion of people here questioning him are the few that were for some god awful reason holding out hope that the playoffs were still a miracle away. They are going through that emotional finger pointing phase. ..

Blame Harbaugh...because Justin Tucker's kick got blown by the wind from 50 plus yards...

Blame Harbaugh.... He lost control of the team..because ray made a speech so obviously it was a desperate bid to gain control.

Blame Harbaugh..his training camps are too tough so that's why Joe is hurt.

Blah blah blah.

I really only come here for a good laugh, because these posts and post-ers just keep getting more ridiculous.

[JEEPercreepermd]

or maybe tucker misses another field goal, the jags get good field position and march down and kick the feild goal to legitimately get the win. Or maybe he makes the feild goal then they score a touchdown on the kick return? The nfl is a cruel business and it's hard to win games when your team lacks discipline.

I don't believe the team lacks discipline, however they are starting some guys who just aren't good enough normally to be on this team. Lack of talent and experience I believe is the head of that snake. Also, these guys aren't Ravens. They are warm bodies to fill a uniform for the next month or so.

[edthehead]

Realistically, it will take a few in a row to get him fired. Harbaugh isn't going anywhere.

The small portion of people here questioning him are the few that were for some god awful reason holding out hope that the playoffs were still a miracle away. They are going through that emotional finger pointing phase. ..

Blame Harbaugh...because Justin Tucker's kick got blown by the wind from 50 plus yards...

Blame Harbaugh.... He lost control of the team..because ray made a speech so obviously it was a desperate bid to gain control.

Blame Harbaugh..his training camps are too tough so that's why Joe is hurt.

Blah blah blah.

I really only come here for a good laugh, because these posts and post-ers just keep getting more ridiculous.

At this point it was not a matter of playoffs, but a point of winning. pride,responsibility and accountability for your actions.

this team is plagued by penalties,bad schemes,now if those 2 was in fact corrected (and they are correctable)

do you honestly think we would have won 1,2 maybe 3 games if the answer is a possible yes

then rather almost winning a game it turns to continuously loosing games,

   now the finger pointing from me stems from just 2 problems that should have been fixed and because they have not then I do fault HARB, he needs to be held accountable . now he is saying FLACCO will be back by the start of training camp ,haven't he learned his lesson (B.P).

   You are correct he will not be fired , I may not like him but I will support him. and I do read alot more than write,

THIS place really do give good laughs but you do get good info.        

[ellicottraven]

I think he's safe. Keep in mind the reason Billick was fired was because there was a sense that he had lost the locker room. Harbaugh has made sure that hasn't happened in his case. I do expect a change in the coordinating staff especially offense.

[JEEPercreepermd]

I think he's safe. Keep in mind the reason Billick was fired was because there was a sense that he had lost the locker room. Harbaugh has made sure that hasn't happened in his case. I do expect a change in the coordinating staff especially offense.

With Billick, it wasn't because there was some sense that the locker room was lost. It was gone completely. Plus there was his refusal to give up hope on Boller.

Also, Billick was hired because of his track record in Minnesota with that monster offense. The exact opposite happened. Then there was the fact that the Ravens not only couldn't make the playoffs two years in a row..there were some really ugly 5-11's and 6-10's in there.

While the Ravens did have a little bit of a letdown season in 2013, they still finished 8-8 and we're playing for a playoff spot in week 17.

This year, they could have never in a million years fathomed that the season would play out like this. Starter after starter dropping like flys, all of the nonsensical calls that have gone against us, the balls that have both literally and figuratively bounced the wrong way..mixed in with some sub par performances from players who we all know are capable of much more.

Still, a few breaks go the other way and the Ravens are close to an even record right now..a few more healthy impact players..and who knows? Maybe they are making a playoff run.

We live in a society where SOMEONE has to be blamed in every instance, I hate it. If it's not the coach, it's the quarterback, if it's not those two

It's one of the coordinators, if not them then it's the GM..on down the line.

People need to relax and realize that no one coach or player caused this. Therefore no one person can be judged for it either.

At the end of the day, this team will have both barrels loaded next season once again, and we'll move forward. No reason for all of the nonsense