Is John Harbaugh on the Hot Seat?

[ravens88]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they didn't do any coaching changes. Teams needs more talent not new coaches. We have not been blown out or not in any game this year its a special circumstance that has never happened in NFL history being so close to winning any of these games but with bad luck and stupidity, resulting in finding ways to lose them. Need players to make plays not drop passes, grab face masks, fall over each other on easy tackles that's on the players not the coaches.

[bpytnjr58]

Lack of talent and lack of discipline on both sides of the ball. IMO it is on the Coordinators with preparation during the week. I also question the conditioning of some players. It would be nice if Flacco could have an OC that stays for more than a year or two.

[rmcjacket23]

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they didn't do any coaching changes. Teams needs more talent not new coaches. We have not been blown out or not in any game this year its a special circumstance that has never happened in NFL history being so close to winning any of these games but with bad luck and stupidity, resulting in finding ways to lose them. Need players to make plays not drop passes, grab face masks, fall over each other on easy tackles that's on the players not the coaches.

Harbaugh stays, Trestman stays.

 

Pees is a wildcard, no idea what will happen with him. Ideally, I think he gets fired. Probably some positional coaching changes, but I personally think they rarely have any impact. Positional coaches change annually in this league and fans never mention their name or even acknowledge their existence until things are going poorly.

 

Defensively, we certainly need at least 2-3 quality players, and obviously the offense lacks talent at the skill positions.

[Purple_City39]

That Pats team made the SB because they were the #1 offense in NFL history (to that point). Not because of Pees.

Right, they were an average defense.

 

When you have a great offense, that's all you need to win SBs in this league. 

#4 in yards per game allowed

#4 in points per game allowed

#2 in total sacks

#7 in turnovers

#2 (tied) in defensive TDs

 

Man, I pray our defense is that average next season.  The 07 Pats defense was overlooked because of what the offense did. 

[rmcjacket23]

#4 in yards per game allowed

#4 in points per game allowed

#2 in total sacks

#7 in turnovers

#2 (tied) in defensive TDs

 

Man, I pray our defense is that average next season.  The 07 Pats defense was overlooked because of what the offense did. 

Right, but the tough part is determining what impact those statistics have when you're offense is putting up 40 points a week.

 

No different than many of the Colts defenses under Manning... statistically they were always pretty good or at least above average for the most part. But in games when the defense was actually required to be the best unit, they typically let them down.

 

The yardage and points numbers are obviously very good, but its hard to give credit for things like sacks and turnovers without the context of knowing how they were affected by the scoreboard. You build a 20 point lead because of your offense early in the 2nd half, and you're officially facing a one dimensional offense on defense. 

[StephenGreen]

Harbaugh is about the best coach in the NFL, if not for his X's and O's, his character.  Total class act.  I actually believe if not for him, we'd be getting blown out in every game; this team lacks quality at nearly every single position.  Yet we manage to keep games close?  

 

What concerns me most about the ravens is not a down year, but rather what is looking like some disturbingly long-term drags on the cap space.  In other words, we sign ridiculous contracts.  I don't pretend to understand how the cap technically works, but what i have seen is that no matter what happens next year with both Suggs and Webb, their previously guaranteed contracts will impact our ability to sign quality players.  

 

Suggs: there is no way a 2x achilles tear player will return.  Webb: he's just seemingly lost, and carrying an attitude to boot.  You could not get a 6th round draft pick for either anymore, plus you'd be forced to pay their contracts.  

 

So two of the most expensive dead-money pieces left over after this year will simply replace what the Ravens get from Rice/Ngata.  

 

Meaning: we are in a long term ugly holding pattern until Ozzie stops overpaying.  

 

My two cents.  

[Purple_City39]

Right, but the tough part is determining what impact those statistics have when you're offense is putting up 40 points a week.

 

No different than many of the Colts defenses under Manning... statistically they were always pretty good or at least above average for the most part. But in games when the defense was actually required to be the best unit, they typically let them down.

 

The yardage and points numbers are obviously very good, but its hard to give credit for things like sacks and turnovers without the context of knowing how they were affected by the scoreboard. You build a 20 point lead because of your offense early in the 2nd half, and you're officially facing a one dimensional offense on defense. 

That's fair, I can't speak to when the turnovers and sacks happened and I'm definitely not doing that research

[The Mom Gene]

Harbaugh is about the best coach in the NFL, if not for his X's and O's, his character.  Total class act.  I actually believe if not for him, we'd be getting blown out in every game; this team lacks quality at nearly every single position.  Yet we manage to keep games close?  

 

What concerns me most about the ravens is not a down year, but rather what is looking like some disturbingly long-term drags on the cap space.  In other words, we sign ridiculous contracts.  I don't pretend to understand how the cap technically works, but what i have seen is that no matter what happens next year with both Suggs and Webb, their previously guaranteed contracts will impact our ability to sign quality players.  

 

Suggs: there is no way a 2x achilles tear player will return.  Webb: he's just seemingly lost, and carrying an attitude to boot.  You could not get a 6th round draft pick for either anymore, plus you'd be forced to pay their contracts.  

 

So two of the most expensive dead-money pieces left over after this year will simply replace what the Ravens get from Rice/Ngata.  

 

Meaning: we are in a long term ugly holding pattern until Ozzie stops overpaying.  

 

My two cents.  

I think he already has stopped overpaying..  hence why we've lost so many pieces.

[ravens88]

Harbaugh stays, Trestman stays.

 

Pees is a wildcard, no idea what will happen with him. Ideally, I think he gets fired. Probably some positional coaching changes, but I personally think they rarely have any impact. Positional coaches change annually in this league and fans never mention their name or even acknowledge their existence until things are going poorly.

 

Defensively, we certainly need at least 2-3 quality players, and obviously the offense lacks talent at the skill positions.

Exactly my feelings, plus I wouldn't mind one season where we keep some continuity in the coaches the turnover the last 3 years has been very frustrating and not beneficial. I mean the offense is scoring and moving the ball decently with the talent we have which isn't much to speak of on the skill positions.

[fistfullwales]

That isn't the issue with the losing the game.  And those who don't think Harbaugh will get fired with a 2-14 record are kidding themselves.  After the 8-8 season Biscotti basically said the guys were going to have to improve or they were out of there.  After a season like 2-14 someone is getting fired.  I would say the team needs at least 5 wins if Harbaugh wants to keep his job.  

HAHAHA, Harbaugh is not at risk of getting canned.

[kennethyamini1989]

I say fire everyone, and let the fans coach from the message boards but thats just hopeful wishing. 

[K-Dog]

I say fire everyone, and let the fans coach from the message boards but thats just hopeful wishing.

That would be soooooo satisfying .

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

That would be soooooo satisfying .

The team would literaly be in cap hell for years as we overpay free agents, they would only draft WRs and get rid of flacco also putting the team into cap hell.

Do it... It'll be hilarious

[HoldingCall]

His first losing season, no way should he be fired. Yesterday's loss was clearly on a few bad plays by players, the Ravens should have won...again.

[HoldingCall]

That isn't the issue with the losing the game.  And those who don't think Harbaugh will get fired with a 2-14 record are kidding themselves.  After the 8-8 season Biscotti basically said the guys were going to have to improve or they were out of there.  After a season like 2-14 someone is getting fired.  I would say the team needs at least 5 wins if Harbaugh wants to keep his job.  

Fired after his first losing season? That move would likely hurt the team for years. Someone will probably lose their job but I don't see it being John H.

[atomicfront]

Fired after his first losing season? That move would likely hurt the team for years. Someone will probably lose their job but I don't see it being John H.

 

Why would it hurt the team for years?  I am not saying he would be fired but if the team is 2-14 there is a good chance he is fired.  And if he can only coach the team to 2-14 why would it hurt them to bring in someone else. Gary Kubiak had to back to back to winning seasons with playoff victories in both of those seasons.  Next season his team starts 2-11 and he is fired.  Doesn't even finish the season.  That is what happens to coaches who have horrible seasons they get fired. 

[atomicfront]

Harbaugh is about the best coach in the NFL, if not for his X's and O's, his character.  Total class act.  I actually believe if not for him, we'd be getting blown out in every game; this team lacks quality at nearly every single position.  Yet we manage to keep games close?  

 

What concerns me most about the ravens is not a down year, but rather what is looking like some disturbingly long-term drags on the cap space.  In other words, we sign ridiculous contracts.  I don't pretend to understand how the cap technically works, but what i have seen is that no matter what happens next year with both Suggs and Webb, their previously guaranteed contracts will impact our ability to sign quality players.  

 

Suggs: there is no way a 2x achilles tear player will return.  Webb: he's just seemingly lost, and carrying an attitude to boot.  You could not get a 6th round draft pick for either anymore, plus you'd be forced to pay their contracts.  

 

So two of the most expensive dead-money pieces left over after this year will simply replace what the Ravens get from Rice/Ngata.  

 

Meaning: we are in a long term ugly holding pattern until Ozzie stops overpaying.  

 

My two cents.  

 

 

You could get more than a sixth rounder for both Suggs and Webb.  If guys like this were available for a six rounder why don't the Ravens get them.   Webb is probably our best corner right now.  Suggs is a beast and you can see how much we miss him on defense.  

[ThePurpleWall]

he's going to get fired, Steve said it him self failure to reach the playoffs a second time wont be tolerated, i except all the coaches to be fired.

[ThePurpleWall]

His first losing season, no way should he be fired. Yesterday's loss was clearly on a few bad plays by players, the Ravens should have won...again.

if you go by your view yes but by steve view second time in 2 years not reaching the playoffs isnt good enough.

Edited November 17, 2015 by ThePurpleWall

[K-Dog]

he's going to get fired, Steve said it him self failure to reach the playoffs a second time wont be tolerated, i except all the coaches to be fired.

0.001 % chance that happens.

[StephenGreen]

You could get more than a sixth rounder for both Suggs and Webb.  If guys like this were available for a six rounder why don't the Ravens get them.   Webb is probably our best corner right now.  Suggs is a beast and you can see how much we miss him on defense.  

 

Not one team in the NFL would give you even a 6th rounder for either.  PLUS, whatever you would get, you'd still be forced to pay their salary.  Suggs "WAS" a beast...not "is".  After tearing the same achilles 2x, he'll be lucky to walk properly again let alone play in the NFL let alone play at a premium level.   yet, he has two more hugely expensive GUARANTEED years left on his contract, with no way for the Ravens to get out from under the cap commitment (you can't even let him go without suffering the cap hit).

 

The same is basically true of Webb, with only a slightly lower cap hit.  Both guys were wildly overpaid, and will hurt us for some time yet.  

 

Bottom line is the Ravens need to do a much better job negotiating contracts going forward. Perennial winners like the Pats teach us that large contracts should only go to one player, the QB, with WR, TE, and DB the best place to invest otherwise...every other position is too easily replaced to lay your chips on, especially LB.  

 

Ravens will need two full more years to escape the cap hits that have already been agreed to.  

[RavensPunkXVX]

I say fire everyone, and let the fans coach from the message boards but thats just hopeful wishing.

I second this. We can have a coach that carries around a tablet relaying information from the message boards.

[rmcjacket23]

Not one team in the NFL would give you even a 6th rounder for either.  PLUS, whatever you would get, you'd still be forced to pay their salary.  Suggs "WAS" a beast...not "is".  After tearing the same achilles 2x, he'll be lucky to walk properly again let alone play in the NFL let alone play at a premium level.   yet, he has two more hugely expensive GUARANTEED years left on his contract, with no way for the Ravens to get out from under the cap commitment (you can't even let him go without suffering the cap hit).

 

The same is basically true of Webb, with only a slightly lower cap hit.  Both guys were wildly overpaid, and will hurt us for some time yet.  

 

Bottom line is the Ravens need to do a much better job negotiating contracts going forward. Perennial winners like the Pats teach us that large contracts should only go to one player, the QB, with WR, TE, and DB the best place to invest otherwise...every other position is too easily replaced to lay your chips on, especially LB.  

 

Ravens will need two full more years to escape the cap hits that have already been agreed to.  

Just so we are clear, there is $0 in guaranteed money left on Suggs deal. Dead money cap hit isn't guaranteed money... they are two completely separate things. The dead money is reflective of money you paid him in the past, not the present or future. The dead money left on his contract is the $6.6M in bonus allocation from his signing bonus that he received in 2014 at signing (60% of his bonus amount) and the $2.25M in bonus allocation for the restructure he did this offseason that freed up necessary cap space for the 2015 season (75% of $3M). He himself is scheduled to make $4.5M in 2016, and $4M each in 2017 and 2018, none of which is guaranteed.

 

Of course, all of this is hindsight anyway, since the boards pretty much unanimously loved these contracts when they were actually signed. Nothing easier than playing the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" game after you have all the future information.

[52520Andrew]

I say fire everyone, and let the fans coach from the message boards but thats just hopeful wishing.

That would be hilarious although we would be terrible.

[K-Dog]

That would be hilarious although we would be terrible.

No not much would change hunh?

[52520Andrew]

No not much would change hunh?

Maybe we are onto something. Maybe this is the new way to manage NFL teams and we as a fan base are ahead of the curve.

[MissRay27]

Hewitt, Engram, Pees and Trestman as coordinators should all be feeling the flames! Also, the Scouting team for sure first and foremost! 

[HoldingCall]

if you go by your view yes but by steve view second time in 2 years not reaching the playoffs isnt good enough.

I think you mean, the second time in three years. A playoff year (2014) is sandwiched in between the two non-playoff years.

[HoldingCall]

atomicfront, on 16 Nov 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

Why would it hurt the team for years?  I am not saying he would be fired but if the team is 2-14 there is a good chance he is fired.  And if he can only coach the team to 2-14 why would it hurt them to bring in someone else. Gary Kubiak had to back to back to winning seasons with playoff victories in both of those seasons.  Next season his team starts 2-11 and he is fired.  Doesn't even finish the season.  That is what happens to coaches who have horrible seasons they get fired. 

Kubiak was in a different situation and he didn't win a Superbowl although he was expected to. Look, this team let a lot of good players go due to finances, (not John's fault) followed by a high number of injuries two seasons in a row. Also, many of their top draft picks aren't even starters (A Brown,  Elam, T Brooks, B Perriman etc), also maybe not his fault. On a side not: If John is losing the team leaders and locker room, that's a different story. Under the circumstances as I see them, his firing would be premature at this time. Remember, good coaches are as rare as good QB's so you are wise to think twice and look through the whole team situation before making such a serious decision.

Edited November 17, 2015 by HoldingCall

[arnie_uk]

I think he's feeling pressure anyway, whether it's real or not I hope not. Don't want to jump the gun. If it happens again next year, 3 out of 4 years, then yea he will be... as would flacco

Edited November 17, 2015 by arnie_uk