Is John Harbaugh on the Hot Seat?

[RavensRegime]

Not this season!

[asteroid]

And you're blaming deflategate for this????  Holy Cow.

:-- ))

[PurpleCity5]

"She," and correct. Brooks was obviously not included.

Oops, my bad lol.

 

Yeah. Brooks is one of our best coaches.

[Winchester]

They have been calls by fans for the jobs of DC, OC, and/or the HC. I want to bring a different perspective to this:

 

Ravens had many changes in coaching in the past few years. When Kubiak left - he took other coaches with them as well as players. When Pagano left - same thing. What we lack is consistency in coaching (outside of John Harbaugh) in a multi-year view. Of course when your team is successful its hard to keep those coaches but I think for now we should do exactly the opposite of what is being asked - keep our coaches. Keep the consistency. Dean Pees has the right packages but the athletes just aren't executing - not hitting the gaps. Trestman is doing the best he can with the limited amount of firepower he's been given. With limited OTAs and brand new athletes being signed of FA - of course it is going to be hard to properly incorporate them into the game.

 

And another point: This will take a minimum of 2 years to fix. We have bright spots in Buck Allen, Crocket Gillmore, Williams. We can build on that. I still think Perriman can be a productive WR. We shouldn't write him off. This injury might actually be a good thing for him - he has the chance to learn from the sidelines.  With our upcoming drafts (if Ozzie does it right) we have a chance to pick more bonafide playmakers. If we can get more playmakers from the draft (and there' no reason to suggest we won't when we've been given a high draft pick) and develop our existing promising young players we will be alright. But - this takes patience and faith in the Ravens system.

The ravens need building blocks on both sides of the ball!! Not Harbs' fault. There is nothing good about Perriman on the sidelines. He is supposed to be learning. Then if he trips next year everybody will say give him a chance this is really his rookie year. The TEs are useful but not building blocks with superstar talent The ravens are a bad team. Everybody wants to blame coaches and coordinators for a team being terrible. Fire Pees Fire Trestman but the guy that put the ravens in their spot seems above reproach?? Seems most fans want to applaud him for drafting mediocre players, hand him a stack of get out of jail free cards for busts and bad signings. Fans make excuses for his busts, Pat him on the back and be content when he finds a mediocre player. Then make excuses for his failure to find much if any pro bowl talent in the last 6 drafts. Not only that but his flock is content with his mediocre players and even sometimes pimp them out as successful drafting. Then call for the firing of every coordinator because the ravens are losing. Yet most fans are content with these mediocre players. Can you blame a driver for not winning a race with a slow car??

[K-Dog]

....bc coaches in NFL always tell the announcer exactly what is on their mind @gameday.

Exactly.

We don't know what is said behind closed doors. I have a hunch it's NOT "Gee you guys are doing just swell! "

[K-Dog]

And you're blaming deflategate for this???? Holy Cow.

Wow.

I just.....

Wow.

[The Mom Gene]

Wow.

I just.....

Wow.

 

So you think Harbaugh needs to go, because the NFL actually has it out for us because of deflategate???  That's what Asteroid had essentially said...

 

 

Harbaugh has to go. I'm convinced the NFL executives blame Harbaugh for inflating Deflate Gate. You can see with the calls. Ross was down before he fumbled. Johnson was down, his forward progress was stopped. That was not pass interference on Fitz by Web. Maybe we can get a good draft and bring Harbaugh back next season but will the NFL execs forgive him in that time?

 

​

[K-Dog]

So you think Harbaugh needs to go, because the NFL actually has it out for us because of deflategate??? That's what Asteroid had essentially said...

​

No misquote on my part. My reaction was to asteroid.

I just...

I just can't get my head around that.

[ravens88]

Harbaugh has to go. I'm convinced the NFL executives blame Harbaugh for inflating Deflate Gate. You can see with the calls. Ross was down before he fumbled. Johnson was down, his forward progress was stopped. That was not pass interference on Fitz by Web. Maybe we can get a good draft and bring Harbaugh back next season but will the NFL execs forgive him in that time?

 

Is that you Dave from Salisbury?

[Daft Classic]

Harbs, Trestman, and the Offensive coaches are all safe. No reason to fire any of them and throw the team into flux ANOTHER year on offense. At least next year, they can have the consistency of having a coordinator for more than one year. I could see them hiring a QB coach though to correct Flacco's regression though. 

 

As far as the Defensive coaches are concerned, you might see some of them gone by the Bye week. Hewitt is destined to be fired at this rate, and Pees just can never seem to field a good defense. He's been solid in past years, but never good or great. Brooks for sure stays. The team just keeps taking his good players, and he keeps finding ways to preserve the D-line

[The Mom Gene]

No misquote on my part. My reaction was to asteroid.

I just...

I just can't get my head around that.

WHEW....  OKAY... <breathes a sigh of relief>

 

 I didn't want to think that you were one of those guys... 

[thieverycorporation]

Billick had overseen a much more uneven year-to-year performance with the team before he was let go. After his Super Bowl team, the Ravens won 1 playoff game in the 7 year period that followed.

 

The stretch that Harbaugh had going will buy him a pass for 1 (really) bad season. I think Bisciotti has a lot of faith in John and isn't going to pull the plug that quickly. 

 

if this thing doesn't get turned around next year, he'll go into 2017 on the hot seat - especially if there is the sense that he's losing his players. At present, this is not a real topic of conversation. 

Strong and accurate assessment.  I completely agree. 

[K-Dog]

The only hot seat Harbaugh is seeing is in his Navagator. (?)

[wizard1]

He will be on the hot seat when we are 3-13. He already looks like a deer in the headlights and every week he looks farther and farther out of control of his team.

 

Nobody's job is garunteed in the NFL.

 

Nobody !

 

Including Oz, Harbaugh and on down the line. That is one thing I can garuntee!

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Harbaugh is safe for now. He is the last person responsible for this mess tbh. His coach speak, yeah it's horrid. As is his TO management. But he seems to be a good motivator and knows how to discipline a team and keep the focused.

There are two problems with this here this season.

1. Injuries.

"But they're an excuse".

I used this analogy last year when Jimmy went down with injury, and I'll use it again. If Darell Revis goes down with an ACL injury and Joe Schmuck is his backup and is worse. Then Schmuck isn't going to do well. Contrastly, if Schmuck also goes down and we have to sign his even worse younger brother John Schmuck off the street then what do you think happens?

Injuries are a VALID excuse. In college you can get around injuries. The second and third stringers are generally as talented as the first stringers, just lack the experience(it's why Alabama seems to send of a RB to the NFL every year). Pros, not so much. Only position really you can find loopholes and get around in the NFL no problem is RB. And even then their is usually a drop off.

So yes. Injuries are part of the problem.

2. Bad draft position.

For the people giving Ozzie crap about this... It's a factor here. It's hard to draft on the back end year in and year out. It is eventually going to catch up. And usually, you'll be lucky if one of those guys actually turns into an average player. Sure, hindsight is 20/20 and "we should have drafted so and so over X", but not easy. You're far likelier to go and get a stud in the top end. The truly good GMs will find productivity in the mid rounds. Which Ozzie does(and no one seems to give him credit for). Guys like Brandon Williams, Juice is a weapon, Boyle looks good, Allen looks like an ideal fit for our scheme. Urschel looks like a starting caliber olinemen, Wagner has been slowly getting better(and is also fighting an injury). It's even rarer to find one in the later rounds. Hell, Deangelo Tyson was a solid rotational dlinemen. That's usually the best it gets(now there are RARE exceptions. Key word is rare).

That being said, he has had a lower talent rate. He's been largely hit and miss ever since we started hitting the back end. One year he'd get Jimmy and Torrey. Literally the next year he'd get Upshaw.

It's no coincidence that we nailed the 2014 draft the way that we did. We were in the top half. We got a lot of key pieces there and only one of them(Brooks) does not look like he's good. And fine. We made up for it a few picks later with Crockett. Who's turned into a pretty good TE.

3. Strapped for cap.

"Flacco's contract this". No, Flacco's contract doesn't become a problem until this offseason. And even if he takes a $10 million pay cut, he's still set to make roughly 4 million more than he does this year. No. Ngata(who actually turned out to be worth it. We let him go at the right time so good for us), Rice, Webb. Those contracts screwed us over. People will say Jimmy, but he's fighting off an injury that is very difficult to recover from immediantly. I remember others here saying that he probably won't be his old self again till next year(and even then he's been hot and cold.. very).

Weird thing is. With the high draft pick next year, and the amount of cap we could have with a few key cuts BEFORE a flacco extension, it's like those reasons get rid of themselves for no reason.

So no, Harbaugh is not going anywhere unless he quits. Sorry people.

[rafahash]

This can't be serious. How could he be in the hot seat? God!

[usmccharles]

This can't be serious. How could he be in the hot seat? God!

Because we havent won the superbowl already this year.....

[Cillmatic]

Trestman and harbaugh survive this year, if this happens NEXT season there will be talk.

[stampedehero]

If Detroit is as bad as us and fires their O co  ordinator then we can do the same with any coach.  This is a winning program and the owner wants a winner.  We can't predict if Harbs gets sacked but Pees should look over his shoulder.

[stampedehero]

Harbaugh is safe for now. He is the last person responsible for this mess tbh. His coach speak, yeah it's horrid. As is his TO management. But he seems to be a good motivator and knows how to discipline a team and keep the focused.

There are two problems with this here this season.

1. Injuries.

"But they're an excuse".

I used this analogy last year when Jimmy went down with injury, and I'll use it again. If Darell Revis goes down with an ACL injury and Joe Schmuck is his backup and is worse. Then Schmuck isn't going to do well. Contrastly, if Schmuck also goes down and we have to sign his even worse younger brother John Schmuck off the street then what do you think happens?

Injuries are a VALID excuse. In college you can get around injuries. The second and third stringers are generally as talented as the first stringers, just lack the experience(it's why Alabama seems to send of a RB to the NFL every year). Pros, not so much. Only position really you can find loopholes and get around in the NFL no problem is RB. And even then their is usually a drop off.

So yes. Injuries are part of the problem.

2. Bad draft position.

For the people giving Ozzie crap about this... It's a factor here. It's hard to draft on the back end year in and year out. It is eventually going to catch up. And usually, you'll be lucky if one of those guys actually turns into an average player. Sure, hindsight is 20/20 and "we should have drafted so and so over X", but not easy. You're far likelier to go and get a stud in the top end. The truly good GMs will find productivity in the mid rounds. Which Ozzie does(and no one seems to give him credit for). Guys like Brandon Williams, Juice is a weapon, Boyle looks good, Allen looks like an ideal fit for our scheme. Urschel looks like a starting caliber olinemen, Wagner has been slowly getting better(and is also fighting an injury). It's even rarer to find one in the later rounds. Hell, Deangelo Tyson was a solid rotational dlinemen. That's usually the best it gets(now there are RARE exceptions. Key word is rare).

That being said, he has had a lower talent rate. He's been largely hit and miss ever since we started hitting the back end. One year he'd get Jimmy and Torrey. Literally the next year he'd get Upshaw.

It's no coincidence that we nailed the 2014 draft the way that we did. We were in the top half. We got a lot of key pieces there and only one of them(Brooks) does not look like he's good. And fine. We made up for it a few picks later with Crockett. Who's turned into a pretty good TE.

3. Strapped for cap.

"Flacco's contract this". No, Flacco's contract doesn't become a problem until this offseason. And even if he takes a $10 million pay cut, he's still set to make roughly 4 million more than he does this year. No. Ngata(who actually turned out to be worth it. We let him go at the right time so good for us), Rice, Webb. Those contracts screwed us over. People will say Jimmy, but he's fighting off an injury that is very difficult to recover from immediantly. I remember others here saying that he probably won't be his old self again till next year(and even then he's been hot and cold.. very).

Weird thing is. With the high draft pick next year, and the amount of cap we could have with a few key cuts BEFORE a flacco extension, it's like those reasons get rid of themselves for no reason.

So no, Harbaugh is not going anywhere unless he quits. Sorry people.

Appropiate Bill Murray avatar for this topic.  Clarify your :"reasons sentence"??

[Guest]

Remember that scene from "The Natural", where a psychologist comes into the locker room to motivate a losing New York Knights ball club?...."Losing is like a disease as contagious as the bubonic plague".

 

With each passing game we seem to get closer to that scenario.

 

Harbaugh has even modified his jargon. He's not talking about a "good team" any longer.  His phraseology has mutated to "we have to play a perfect disciplined game".  

 

We don't have leaders and can't get over the hump.  We use to win some of these close games.  Now that incompetent referee squad played a major role in our defeat Monday Night, but we were outgained by about 150 yards and were fortunate to be as close late in the game as we were.

 

Certainly, there were injuries, but If this devolves further, I don't believe anybody is safe.  Why should they be? Decisions have been made by those that have us in these circumstances.

 

Billick had overseen a much more uneven year-to-year performance with the team before he was let go. After his Super Bowl team, the Ravens won 1 playoff game in the 7 year period that followed.

 

The stretch that Harbaugh had going will buy him a pass for 1 (really) bad season. I think Bisciotti has a lot of faith in John and isn't going to pull the plug that quickly. 

 

if this thing doesn't get turned around next year, he'll go into 2017 on the hot seat - especially if there is the sense that he's losing his players. At present, this is not a real topic of conversation. 

 

 

He will be on the hot seat when we are 3-13. He already looks like a deer in the headlights and every week he looks farther and farther out of control of his team.

 

Nobody's job is garunteed in the NFL.

 

Nobody !

 

Including Oz, Harbaugh and on down the line. That is one thing I can garuntee!

 

 

Trestman and harbaugh survive this year, if this happens NEXT season there will be talk.

 

One more word on the Zebras.  How can they call a fumble on Ross merely because the ball was out.  Don't the Zebs have the discipline to require viewing a ball separated from a ball carrier before he is down?  In other words shouldn't there be a presumption of possession of a possessed ball and incompletion of a thrown ball that is not possessed. Where are these guys coming from?  When they err in a ruling the burden to overcome their error is great.  The presumption has to be possession for a carried ball and non possession for a thrown ball,  discipline in not making a premature call and then letting the Replay Review correct any errors.  

 

That crew was a sorry bunch of blind men without directions or a walking cane.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Danny D

[balfan23]

One more word on the Zebras.  How can they call a fumble on Ross merely because the ball was out.  Don't the Zebs have the discipline to require viewing a ball separated from a ball carrier before he is down?  In other words shouldn't there be a presumption of possession of a possessed ball and incompletion of a thrown ball that is not possessed. Where are these guys coming from?  When they err in a ruling the burden to overcome their error is great.  The presumption has to be possession for a carried ball and non possession for a thrown ball,  discipline in not making a premature call and then letting the Replay Review correct any errors.  

 

That crew was a sorry bunch of blind men without directions or a walking cane.

Here's my take on this ... and it is really warped thinking on the part of the officials - but I think it aligns with what you are saying.

 

When the ball comes out and (as I believe was the case in this play) they have NO CLUE as to what actually happened, they call it as a turnover on the field - because then they will have an opportunity to look at it on film to see what they missed and not cost a team a challenge (since all turnovers are reviewed). 

 

The problem is ... then they need absolute, 100%, no shadow of a doubt video evidence that it wasn't a turnover, or they'll say the play stands. So, they effectively create a turnover where there wasn't a turnover. 

[H8R]

Not a chance .

[Guest]

Here's my take on this ... and it is really warped thinking on the part of the officials - but I think it aligns with what you are saying.

 

When the ball comes out and (as I believe was the case in this play) they have NO CLUE as to what actually happened, they call it as a turnover on the field - because then they will have an opportunity to look at it on film to see what they missed and not cost a team a challenge (since all turnovers are reviewed). 

 

The problem is ... then they need absolute, 100%, no shadow of a doubt video evidence that it wasn't a turnover, or they'll say the play stands. So, they effectively create a turnover where there wasn't a turnover. 

 

I agree with your perspective.

 

They didn't keep in mind the presumption.  The presumption is possession in the case of a carried ball and non possession in the case of a thrown ball. 

 

Don't change the presumption blind zebras.....or at least don't get in the way of a players game.

[RavensFanOfLA]

Harb will be ok but if this continues next year i am not sure 

[cursona pirate]

If anyone on the Ravens will be fired, it should be Pees.

 

Maybe even me cause I have been slacking on posting on here. 

[GrimCoconut]

Bill Belichick was fired (my phone autocorrected to freed lol) from the Browns.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Bill Belichick was fired (my phone autocorrected to freed lol) from the Browns.

Well your autocorrect wasn't wrong

[K-Dog]

Well your autocorrect wasn't wrong

+34

[Virginia 55]

Harbaugh's seat is not even warm. 

 

I will say this though, there are to many likable guys on this team.  

 

I don't know if that's the culture he wants around the castle or not.  If so (he is the problem).

 

By likable I really mean soft. 

 

Harbaugh and company, (Ozzie, Decosta, Biscotti) all of them. Have put together one of the worst rosters I have ever seen. 

 

This has to be the my least favorite Ravens team of all time.  

Skill position coaching (especially the db's) is terrible.

They look like they all have regressed. 

 

We need a major overhaul but it doesn't start with Harbaugh.