Seen Enough Of Marlon Brown

[Ravens2343]

i dont think you understand it at all.

 

just because givens got open deep on a route he specializes in against a safety who gave him a free release , does not mean he is going to get open open against the opponents top corners when they play press/close on routes that go over the middle or short that expect the WR to make a catch with a defender all over him.

its very different when they also have a safety over the top for help or a lb waiting in the middle to make a big hit.

 

there is a reason boldin is good in certain routes and torrey is good in other routes.

if you have both of them run the other guys routes neither is going to do good.

 

if givens and ross where really good at running every route they would have been on their previous team starting.

 

i dont see what the point is in trying something that already has been proven to not work.

their is alot of tape out there from both and i doubt  every team/coach they met so far where wrong from drawing the same conclusion.

 

So you are in favor of Brown and Aiken going out there and doing nothing rather then give Givens, Butler and Ross chances at more snaps?  What routes have Brown and Aiken run that an average NFL receiver like Givens or Ross cannot run?  Givens had 87 catches and nearly 1400 yards in 3 season while on the Rams, I am sure he ran other routes than just deep ones to get those catches and yards.  Ross played well in 2014 in limited snaps with the Lions, both guys have played better in the past then Brown and Aiken are playing now.  I understand that not every receiver can run similar routes and be successful, but I have not seen anything out of Brown or Aiken that would suggest someone like Givens, Ross or Butler could not do better or atleast do the same. 

 

i dont see what the point is in trying something that already has been proven to not work.

their is alot of tape out there from both and i doubt  every team/coach they met so far where wrong from drawing the same conclusion.

 

Brown and Aiken have proven not to work also but we keep doing that?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Ravens2343

[The Mom Gene]

I've been thinking this as well. The issues with the offense going into the shell have happened EVERY YEAR regardless of the coordinator. I remember 2010 especially, when the offense would be high-flying in the first half and get a big lead, only to completely turn it off in the second half. Starting to think that it's Harbaugh who likes it that way.

 

I disagree....  whole heartedly...  The problems stem from making the constant change...  not the lack thereof.  There is a complete lack of consistency in our offense over the past 4 years...  What do you expect?????  when you lose so many players and the personnel and change the scheme so many times...  Holy Cow.  I think the Sky is Falling.  People are looking for a scapegoat.  And I am not sure one exists...  It seems that just when you have a scheme down... or some familiarity with the personnel...  Said person is yanked out of the system.

 

People are looking for someone to "hang"...  Whether it's Pees, Trestmann, or even now Harbaugh...  and it's sad that fans are so blinded by that solution...  instead of looking to where the real problem exists... 

[Tru11]

So you are in favor of Brown and Aiken going out there and doing nothing rather then give Givens, Butler and Ross chances at more snaps?  What routes have Brown and Aiken run that an average NFL receiver like Givens or Ross cannot run?  Givens had 87 catches and nearly 1400 yards in 3 season while on the Rams, I am sure he ran other routes than just deep ones to get those catches and yards.  Ross played well in 2014 in limited snaps with the Lions, both guys have played better in the past then Brown and Aiken are playing now.  I understand that not every receiver can run similar routes and be successful, but I have not seen anything out of Brown or Aiken that would suggest someone like Givens, Ross or Butler could not do better or atleast do the same. 

 

i dont see what the point is in trying something that already has been proven to not work.

their is alot of tape out there from both and i doubt  every team/coach they met so far where wrong from drawing the same conclusion.

 

Brown and Aiken have proven not to work also but we keep doing that?

 

because they are better then the next option....

 

seriously people have this discussion every season.

 

2013 our wrs where playing terrible and brown was the bright spot playing limited snaps and everyone wanted him to become a bigger part.

2014 he was supposed to be a bigger part but aiken made a few plays and suddenly aiken should be the starter and even torrey should be benched for him.

2015 aiken is the starter, brown is the 3rd guy like everyone wanted but they underwhelm , suddenly fans see ross and givens make a catch and now all of a sudden they should be the starters....

 

dont you think the coaches see these guys in practice and thus have a pretty good understanding of who plays better?

have we all forgotten how the start melvin hype ended?

 

have you even considered how doing this once again is going to affect flacco?

people complain he never has the same receivers , yet insist we start a different receiver every week based on a catch or 2 a guy made in the previous game.

 

seriously if ross and givens played as good as you think they did on their previous teams , why do you think the teams got rid of them?

 

can we please stop creating this hype based on 1 or 2 plays?

its only going to end up people making a thread like this in the future saying how disappointed they are the guy they where hyped up about did not turn into a star....

[Tru11]

I disagree....  whole heartedly...  The problems stem from making the constant change...  not the lack thereof.  There is a complete lack of consistency in our offense over the past 4 years...  What do you expect?????  when you lose so many players and the personnel and change the scheme so many times...  Holy Cow.  I think the Sky is Falling.  People are looking for a scapegoat.  And I am not sure one exists...  It seems that just when you have a scheme down... or some familiarity with the personnel...  Said person is yanked out of the system.

 

People are looking for someone to "hang"...  Whether it's Pees, Trestmann, or even now Harbaugh...  and it's sad that fans are so blinded by that solution...  instead of looking to where the real problem exists... 

 

yup there are so many things going wrong its not really realistic to pin point 1 thing.

 

heck last night both the offense and defense did well until some questionable calls by the refs took place.

[The Mom Gene]

yup there are so many things going wrong its not really realistic to pin point 1 thing.

 

heck last night both the offense and defense did well until some questionable calls by the refs took place.

 

YUP!

[Ravens2343]

because they are better then the next option....

 

seriously people have this discussion every season.

 

2013 our wrs where playing terrible and brown was the bright spot playing limited snaps and everyone wanted him to become a bigger part.

2014 he was supposed to be a bigger part but aiken made a few plays and suddenly aiken should be the starter and even torrey should be benched for him.

2015 aiken is the starter, brown is the 3rd guy like everyone wanted but they underwhelm , suddenly fans see ross and givens make a catch and now all of a sudden they should be the starters....

 

dont you think the coaches see these guys in practice and thus have a pretty good understanding of who plays better?

have we all forgotten how the start melvin hype ended?

 

have you even considered how doing this once again is going to affect flacco?

people complain he never has the same receivers , yet insist we start a different receiver every week based on a catch or 2 a guy made in the previous game.

 

seriously if ross and givens played as good as you think they did on their previous teams , why do you think the teams got rid of them?

 

can we please stop creating this hype based on 1 or 2 plays?

its only going to end up people making a thread like this in the future saying how disappointed they are the guy they where hyped up about did not turn into a star....

 

Luckily for this conversation I have never been the person who calls for a players benching after a few good plays by his backup, but in Marlon Browns case I really don't see how you or anyone can defend him at this point.  I am not saying we should cut Brown immediately, but giving him less snaps and putting someone like Givens or Ross on the field more only makes sense.  Flacco not having the same wideouts is a problem, but not as big of a problem as the receivers we have given him are not very good apart from SSS, Torrey, Boldin and Mason.  3 of those guys are older receivers on the back end of their respective careers.

 

I have never been a fan of going into this season with SSS as our lone good receiver with Perriman and a bunch of spare parts behind him.  I am in the minority of people who thought we should have come closer to Torrey's deal to keep him, but that's for another day.

 

Givens and Ross get limited snaps and have made a few plays, what is it going to hurt by giving them more at the expense of Brown and Aiken?  What is the worse that is going to happen?  Givens and Ross stink and we will have proof that our receiving group needs an overhaul this offseason, I think that's coming regardless.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Ravens2343

[Tru11]

Luckily for this conversation I have never been the person who calls for a players benching after a few good plays by his backup, but in Marlon Browns case I really don't see how you or anyone can defend him at this point.  I am not saying we should cut Brown immediately, but giving him less snaps and putting someone like Givens or Ross on the field more only makes sense.  Flacco not having the same wideouts is a problem, but not as big of a problem as the receivers we have given him are not very good apart from SSS, Torrey, Boldin and Mason.  3 of those guys are older receivers on the back end of their respective careers.

 

I have never been a fan of going into this season with SSS as our lone good receiver with Perriman and a bunch of spare parts behind him.  I am in the minority of people who thought we should have come closer to Torrey's deal to keep him, but that's for another day.

 

Givens and Ross get limited snaps and have made a few plays, what is it going to hurt by giving them more at the expense Brown and Aiken?  What is the worse that is going to happen?  Givens and Ross stink and we will have proof that our receiving group needs an overhaul this offseason, I think that's coming regardless.

 

they are getting their snaps lol.

 

they arent making the most out of it either.

 

just like givens there have been plays where brown had beaten his man as well , just either the ball did not get their or he could not make the catch.

 

if givens actually made the catch when he had beaten mathieu  then he would had a good case to warrant more snaps.

 

to bad he did not so he is going to have to show it in practice.

 

again dont fall for the hype.

 

if givens and ross show in practice they are ready for bigger roles and then on the field also show they are ready they will get it.

its how things work.

you cant hand players a job and bench other just for the sake of trying stuff.

also its not like they have to compete against stud cbs in practice that make it that much harder to show themselfs lol.

[GrimCoconut]

I've actually been more impressed by Ross over any WR on this team outside of Smith. Aiken hasn't been bad, though. I liked what I saw from him, too.

Brown made like two nice catches but enough bounce off his hands, too. I don't get it. His primary use as a WR is to block. If that's the case he may as well bulk up and be a TE.

[Ravens2343]

they are getting their snaps lol.

 

they arent making the most out of it either.

 

just like givens there have been plays where brown had beaten his man as well , just either the ball did not get their or he could not make the catch.

 

if givens actually made the catch when he had beaten mathieu  then he would had a good case to warrant more snaps.

 

to bad he did not so he is going to have to show it in practice.

 

again dont fall for the hype.

 

if givens and ross show in practice they are ready for bigger roles and then on the field also show they are ready they will get it.

its how things work.

you cant hand players a job and bench other just for the sake of trying stuff.

also its not like they have to compete against stud cbs in practice that make it that much harder to show themselfs lol.

 

I am not at practice so I don't know how these guys do while there, but from what I saw last night GIvens and Ross took better advantage of their opportunities.  Kamar Aiken played 54 snaps (the most of any wideout) and had 1 catch for 6 yards! How on earth is he still warranted that many snaps for such a low production. 

 

Brown 3 catches for 22 yards

 

Givens 1 catch for 31 yards and his first target should have been a 35 yard TD but Flacco underthrew him badly

 

On one catch Givens gained more yards then Brown and Aiken did combined on 4 catches. Granted he ran a deep route but the fact is we need playmakers who can put pressure on a defense.  That secondary got away with putting Powers on Brown or Aiken and not even bothering with a safety over the top.  Forsett ran numerous times into 7-9 man fronts because of it.  Atleast Givens and Ross have speed that can stretch a defense, isn't that what we wanted Perriman to do this year? 

 

I am not hyping Ross or Givens up to be good receivers, but they are a better option then Brown and Aiken at the moment.

And I agree you don't just go benching guys for no reason, but there is a reason and its poor play.  Plus Aiken and Brown will almost certainly not be back next year, atleast not any higher then #5 on the depth chart.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Ravens2343

[Tru11]

I am not at practice so I don't know how these guys do while there, but from what I saw last night GIvens and Ross took better advantage of their opportunities.  Kamar Aiken played 54 snaps (the most of any wideout) and had 1 catch for 6 yards! How on earth is he still warranted that many snaps for such a low production. 

 

Brown 3 catches for 22 yards

 

Givens 1 catch for 31 yards and his first target should have been a 35 yard TD but Flacco underthrew him badly

 

On one catch Givens gained more yards then Brown and Aiken did combined on 4 catches. Granted he ran a deep route but the fact is we need playmakers who can put pressure on a defense.  That secondary got away with putting Powers on Brown or Aiken and not even bothering with a safety over the top.  Forsett ran numerous times into 7-9 man fronts because of it.  Atleast Givens and Ross have speed that can stretch a defense, isn't that what we wanted Perriman to do this year? 

 

I am not hyping Ross or Givens up to be good receivers, but they are a better option then Brown and Aiken at the moment.

And I agree you don't just go benching guys for no reason, but there is a reason and its poor play.  Plus Aiken and Brown will almost certainly not be back next year, atleast not any higher then #5 on the depth chart.

 

doubt we passed the ball 54 times so i dont really see how you can count snaps he was run blocking.

 

also you need to consider how the defense was playing them , what their role where on the play, how many times they where targeted and what the quality of the pass was/ compared to the coverage of the defense.

 

drawing a conclusion based on stats alone will never give a fair representation of how they played.

 

if they really where better options they would get more snaps or even surpass the others on the depth chard.

 

if what you say is true it will happen.

 

once the bye comes they are going to evaluate these last weeks and then make changes if needed.

[Ravens2343]

doubt we passed the ball 54 times so i dont really see how you can count snaps he was run blocking.

 

also you need to consider how the defense was playing them , what their role where on the play, how many times they where targeted and what the quality of the pass was/ compared to the coverage of the defense.

 

drawing a conclusion based on stats alone will never give a fair representation of how they played.

 

if they really where better options they would get more snaps or even surpass the others on the depth chard.

 

if what you say is true it will happen.

 

once the bye comes they are going to evaluate these last weeks and then make changes if needed.

 

I fully believe Aiken and Browns snaps will decrease in the coming weeks because they are not even run blocking effectively.  I watched the game last night and really tried to focus on a few individual players, Brown and Aiken being two of them.  Aiken ran a 5 yard out route and that was his only catch.  Brown and a terrible drop in the second half and Flacco routinely looked away because he was not getting separation. 

 

I don't have much faith in Harbaugh making a change because he has shown in the past he will give players and coaches (looking at you Dean Pees) more then deserved chances to prove themselves.  The film is obvious and the results are blatantly obvious so hopefully changes are made in regards to snap counts.  All I am asking is for Givens, Ross, Waller and now Butler to get more opportunities to show what they can do with a heavier workload.  At 1-6 I do not care about the final outcome of the game, all I care about is that they compete to the end and put the best players on the field.  I cannot say with confidence that Aiken or Brown belong on the field right now

[January J]

I disagree....  whole heartedly...  The problems stem from making the constant change...  not the lack thereof.  There is a complete lack of consistency in our offense over the past 4 years...  What do you expect?????  when you lose so many players and the personnel and change the scheme so many times...  Holy Cow.  I think the Sky is Falling.  People are looking for a scapegoat.  And I am not sure one exists...  It seems that just when you have a scheme down... or some familiarity with the personnel...  Said person is yanked out of the system.

 

People are looking for someone to "hang"...  Whether it's Pees, Trestmann, or even now Harbaugh...  and it's sad that fans are so blinded by that solution...  instead of looking to where the real problem exists...

exxxactly. Hard for the players to build chemistry when everything is constantly changing. They mentioned that during the broadcast last night quite a bit, and gruden said he actually felt sorry for flacco. Said without this constant change around him there is no telling how good flacco actually could be- and we are not taking full advantage of his prime years.

[rmcjacket23]

exxxactly. Hard for the players to build chemistry when everything is constantly changing. They mentioned that during the broadcast last night quite a bit, and gruden said he actually felt sorry for flacco. Said without this constant change around him there is no telling how good flacco actually could be- and we are not taking full advantage of his prime years.

Pros and cons to both side.

 

What is it that the fans really want? Isn't it the case that you want a coordinator who's good enough to elevate our offense to a high level (perhaps like a top 10 offense), yet you want him to be just crappy enough that no other team will come calling him for HC gigs? Sort of a "have your cake and eat it too" scenario isn't it?

 

One could argue that you can look at the Ravens for what "stability" at coordinator does. After all, some of the more "stable" coordinators we've had in franchise history were Dean Pees and Cam Cameron. I wonder what the fanbases overall opinions of them are...

[The Mom Gene]

exxxactly. Hard for the players to build chemistry when everything is constantly changing. They mentioned that during the broadcast last night quite a bit, and gruden said he actually felt sorry for flacco. Said without this constant change around him there is no telling how good flacco actually could be- and we are not taking full advantage of his prime years.

 

Craziness has ensued....  People actually blame him.  I feel sorry for him too.  The guy has about 1.5 seconds to get rid of the ball.  He has no real #1 or #2 receiver to throw to.  No time for them to get separation.  He can't get accustomed to dealing with any one coach, and yet we have people who are claiming that mediocrity is what we are wanting...  by keeping him down so that no other team wants him....  One of the most ridiculous things I've heard yet.

[Tru11]

I fully believe Aiken and Browns snaps will decrease in the coming weeks because they are not even run blocking effectively.  I watched the game last night and really tried to focus on a few individual players, Brown and Aiken being two of them.  Aiken ran a 5 yard out route and that was his only catch.  Brown and a terrible drop in the second half and Flacco routinely looked away because he was not getting separation. 

 

I don't have much faith in Harbaugh making a change because he has shown in the past he will give players and coaches (looking at you Dean Pees) more then deserved chances to prove themselves.  The film is obvious and the results are blatantly obvious so hopefully changes are made in regards to snap counts.  All I am asking is for Givens, Ross, Waller and now Butler to get more opportunities to show what they can do with a heavier workload.  At 1-6 I do not care about the final outcome of the game, all I care about is that they compete to the end and put the best players on the field.  I cannot say with confidence that Aiken or Brown belong on the field right now

 

well yeah coaches do care  about the outcome so i guess don't get your expectations up to much lol

[rmcjacket23]

Craziness has ensued....  People actually blame him.  I feel sorry for him too.  The guy has about 1.5 seconds to get rid of the ball.  He has no real #1 or #2 receiver to throw to.  He can't get accustomed to dealing with any one coach, and yet we have people who are claiming that mediocrity is what we are wanting...  by keeping him down so that no other team wants him....  One of the most ridiculous things I've heard yet.

Then what do you want? Its a pretty simple question.

 

How do you bring in a coordinator who turns this offense into a prolific one (which I assume is what people want) AND keep that coordinator here for more than a year or two?

 

You do realize that's basically an utter paradox in the NFL these days correct? 

 

Keep in mind these are questions that NFL personnel have spent decades trying to figure out and still haven't...

[The Mom Gene]

Then what do you want? Its a pretty simple question.

 

How do you bring in a coordinator who turns this offense into a prolific one (which I assume is what people want) AND keep that coordinator here for more than a year or two?

 

You do realize that's basically an utter paradox in the NFL these days correct? 

 

Keep in mind these are questions that NFL personnel have spent decades trying to figure out and still haven't...

 

Yeah they have....  You do not see EVERY team losing their OC EVERY YEAR.  We offer these Ex NFL Head Coaches a one year deal, and promise to let them go if they are offered another Head Coaching job.  When we should be signing a two year deal in the very least...  and if they choose to leave for another payday, they should have to buy out that contract.  Just sayin.  THIS is our problem...  Other teams see our successes, and they scalp our coordinators and coaches....  Just like the guys that left with Caldwell, Pagano, and Kubiak...  Yeah, that stuff happens.  But we have to learn how to NOT LOSE these guys.

[The Mom Gene]

NOW...THAT WE'VE BEEN COMPLETELY HIJACKED.....  BACK ON TOPIC FOLKS......

[Kid87]

ROSS butler and waller should all be ahead of him lol

[Ravens2343]

well yeah coaches do care  about the outcome so i guess don't get your expectations up to much lol

 

I am sure they do and I want them to, but for my sake at 1-6 I know the playoffs are out of reach so I am more excited for guys to preform who might be here next year.  If we head into the bye at 1-7, changes are going to have to be made at the expense of players, coaches or both.

[Deflated Football]

I'd like to see more of Waller. He's been our MVP on ST's this season and now I want to see what he can do on offense. I'm willing to bet he'd be more of an impact than Marlon.

[The Mom Gene]

TITLE OF THE THREAD.... "SEEN ENOUGH OF MARLON BROWN"... 

[Deflated Football]

Is Marlon a UFA or an RFA after this season? Does anyone think the Ravens would really keep him if he is an RFA?

[Ravens2343]

Is Marlon a UFA or an RFA after this season? Does anyone think the Ravens would really keep him if he is an RFA?

 

He is a RFA.  We usually tender all our RFA's but Brown and Aiken may be an exception.  If anything I could see them bringing them both back to compete then cutting them once training camp winds down

[Tru11]

Is Marlon a UFA or an RFA after this season? Does anyone think the Ravens would really keep him if he is an RFA?

 

he is a RFA and most likely will get a low round tender.

 

there is no reason not to keep him at a low price, especially since there aren't better options on the roster already and getting guys guys from FA will cost a lot more.

[GrimCoconut]

he is a RFA and most likely will get a low round tender.

there is no reason not to keep him at a low price, especially since there aren't better options on the roster already and getting guys guys from FA will cost a lot more.

I wouldn't give him a tender. I'd sooner let him go and re-sign him as a free agent if we wanted him back. I don't think the tender is that cheap, although I could be mistaken. I think it cost like $1.3M or something and he's not worth it. Edited October 27, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Static]

Wait until Ozzie gives us another day 3 receiver and we'll pretend  that  he's any better

[Tru11]

I wouldn't give him a tender. I'd sooner let him go and re-sign him as a free agent if we wanted him back. I don't think the tender is that cheap, although I could be mistaken. I think it cost like $1.3M or something and he's not worth it.

 

if they do that it wont count in the compensatory formula.

 

also letting him go and try to get a replacement will probably cost more.

 

tender are around what you said.

think it was 1.4 mil in 2014.

 

dont think he qualifies for exclusive rights.

 

most likely scenario is tender him with the lowest  and then work on a contract for a year to lessen the cap hit.

its the most used practice for guys with low tenders.

[GrimCoconut]

if they do that it wont count in the compensatory formula.

also letting him go and try to get a replacement will probably cost more.

tender are around what you said.

think it was 1.4 mil in 2014.

dont think he qualifies for exclusive rights.

most likely scenario is tender him with the lowest and then work on a contract for a year to lessen the cap hit.

its the most used practice for guys with low tenders.

I still disagree. I honestly think we could re-sign this guy for the veteran minimum, which doesn't count against the compensatory picks, btw. You know why? Because you don't lose compensatory picks for re-signing your own players. See Albert McClellan for a precedent on when this happened in the past. Even David Reed is an example.

We won't get anything for Brown anyway. The only tender he'll likely receive is an original round tender, also known as a right of first refusal. I don't even think anyone wants this guy for his $1.4M or whatever his salary is. Lol. They'd be crazy to offer that much or more for him. Even under that scenario we wouldn't get anything for Brown unless we slapped him with a second round tender, and if that happens, I slap Ozzie, Steve, John, the president and the Pope.

Edited October 27, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[Tru11]

I still disagree. I honestly think we could re-sign this guy for the veteran minimum, which doesn't count against the compensatory picks, btw. You know why? Because you don't lose compensatory picks for re-signing your own players. See Albert McClellan for a precedent on when this happened in the past. Even David Reed is an example.

We won't get anything for Brown anyway. The only tender he'll likely receive is an original round tender, also known as a right of first refusal. I don't even think anyone wants this guy for his $1.4M or whatever his salary is. Lol. They'd be crazy to offer that much or more for him. Even under that scenario we wouldn't get anything for Brown unless we slapped him with a second round tender, and if that happens, I slap Ozzie, Steve, John, the president and the Pope.

 

true lol.

 

no way he is getting a 2nd rounder hahahah.

 

that ill be on board on the ozzie has gone senile train.

 

like i said though it comes down to what the FO is willing to risk.

 

most don't hold brown highly but apparently the team still does for whatever reason.

 

if they dont want to risk him going somewhere else in FA he will get tenderd and then work on a 1 year deal.

if they dont care then they will risk it.

 

at this moment only camp , perriman and waller are under contract for next season @ wr though.

and steve smith if he sticks around.

 

its certainly going to be very interesting to see who they will resign, tender or let go.