Are we now in agreement about LT?

[BmoreBird22]

a franchise LT is often harder to find than a QB, you have an extremely low chance to find one outside of the top 10. a lot of you are sharing the sentiment that we shouldnt take one with our first high pick in years, but that just shows that you all can only appreciate the sexy picks like a pass rusher or db.

Only eight starters were currently picked inside the top 10 (and some, like Fisher are currently playing RT), three residing in the NFC East alone. 

 

Like I told Grim, 40% of the current starters in the league at LT are from round two or later, many even coming in rounds three to five. 

 

So, yeah.

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah. If I get some free time when school lets out in December I'll look into this more. I'm curious myself. I'll admit if I'm wrong, don't worry. Lol.

I'm actually with you in that I'd prefer to take a different position. I just think we can't rely anymore on Monroe.

There seems to be a pattern that everyone to whom we give a sizeable extension to lately ultimately gets hurt. It's a little absurd and I've never seen such luck. It's like we're cursed or the Ravens made a deal with the Devil to win the Super Bowl and now we're cursed lol

I want to look at the strength and conditioning coaches or at the practices that are being run. 

 

Jimmy comes here from Colorado with no injuries to his name, but he's had a myriad of injuries occur since being in Baltimore. Monroe has no injuries in Jacksonville, and as far as I know, in college, but he comes to Baltimore and now he's getting injured left and right. The Ravens are often losing really key players every year to injuries. Maybe it's sheer coincidence, but it's hard to think of teams that have as many key players get injured so routinely. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Only eight starters were currently picked inside the top 10 (and some, like Fisher are currently playing RT), three residing in the NFC East alone. 

 

Like I told Grim, 40% of the current starters in the league at LT are from round two or later, many even coming in rounds three to five. 

 

So, yeah.

well the ravens cant find one and havent found one since JO at 4th overall in 96. so that stat doesnt apply to us

[BmoreBird22]

well the ravens cant find one and havent found one since JO at 4th overall in 96. so that stat doesnt apply to us

They can't help it that Jared Gaither was a bum and Monroe is fine when healthy, he just hasn't been healthy.

But what's to say Stanley will really be that different if the Ravens haven't had luck?

[Baltimore RAYvens]

I had a nightmare that Joey won a contest and got to pick for the Ravens this year in the draft and took the LT first overall XD

 

If we're going LT with our pick I'd rather see Tunsil out of Old Miss, I think he's about the same talent wise but has a nasty streak that's rare to find. We need to get some nasty back on the team

[JoeyFlex5]

They can't help it that Jared Gaither was a bum and Monroe is fine when healthy, he just hasn't been healthy.

But what's to say Stanley will really be that different if the Ravens haven't had luck?

gaither was a UDFA and monroe was traded for. my point is, we have swung and missed repeatedly on these cheap options, but we are batting a thousand on LT's in the top 5, even if we only took 1 lol. im just saying if we need a LT badly, this is our prime chance to get one, and its possible it could be our last chance for a while.

[JoeyFlex5]

I had a nightmare that Joey won a contest and got to pick for the Ravens this year in the draft and took the LT first overall XD

 

If we're going LT with our pick I'd rather see Tunsil out of Old Miss, I think he's about the same talent wise but has a nasty streak that's rare to find. We need to get some nasty back on the team

i would actually take bosa. im just making an argument on why LT should absolutely be in consideration regardless of who else is on the board. i still think bosa is a better talent at a position thats even more immediate of a need. my top board currently has bosa, stanley, nkemdiche, ramsey, in that order.

[Inqui]

gaither was a UDFA and monroe was traded for. my point is, we have swung and missed repeatedly on these cheap options, but we are batting a thousand on LT's in the top 5, even if we only took 1 lol. im just saying if we need a LT badly, this is our prime chance to get one, and its possible it could be our last chance for a while.

Not to mention Oher. Tbh I don't mind Monroe and I could live with it if he saw out his contract with us and even signed a new one. But the fact that we have him is completely irrelevant to who I want. Like I said when defensive players were the only prospects being talked about, this is our chance to take our best LT since Ogden, and if there's a guy you like better than everyone else, you just make it work with him and Monroe for a season or two. And that guy I happen to like (better than any other prospect atm) is Stanley.

I'd be more interested to see the batting averages of the best LTs, as opposed to where the majority were taken. Off the top of my head, most of the truly elite LTs have been top 10 guys. There have been some whiffs for sure, but I can't think of any instances where true greatness at the position has been found outside the top 10 (as opposed to teams simply making do, like with Bakhtiari of the Packers). But even then, wherever we pick there should be an LT with a genuine case for BPA.

[GrimCoconut]

I had a nightmare that Joey won a contest and got to pick for the Ravens this year in the draft and took the LT first overall XD

If we're going LT with our pick I'd rather see Tunsil out of Old Miss, I think he's about the same talent wise but has a nasty streak that's rare to find. We need to get some nasty back on the team

I'm a bit frightened that anyone here is in your nightmares, let alone dreams.

[GrimCoconut]

gaither was a UDFA and monroe was traded for. my point is, we have swung and missed repeatedly on these cheap options, but we are batting a thousand on LT's in the top 5, even if we only took 1 lol. im just saying if we need a LT badly, this is our prime chance to get one, and its possible it could be our last chance for a while.

No, Gaither wasn't an UDFA. He was a former 5th round pick in the supplementary draft.

[BmoreBird22]

gaither was a UDFA and monroe was traded for. my point is, we have swung and missed repeatedly on these cheap options, but we are batting a thousand on LT's in the top 5, even if we only took 1 lol. im just saying if we need a LT badly, this is our prime chance to get one, and its possible it could be our last chance for a while.

I mean, I'm going to say it again because I've said it a lot already, but I have faith in Monroe if he's healthy... just hasn't been lately, and honestly, I think that's an issue with the Ravens. He was never injured in Jax, but he's oft injured here after undergoing a full training camp. That says something to me.

And as far as Gaither goes, he was good when he played, but similar to Monroe, he just was often injured.

There's a chance Stanley falls into the same predicament

[Baltimore RAYvens]

I'm a bit frightened that anyone here is in your nightmares, let alone dreams.

 

He had that Flacco Fu Manchu going. It was truly terrifying 

[Baltimore RAYvens]

i would actually take bosa. im just making an argument on why LT should absolutely be in consideration regardless of who else is on the board. i still think bosa is a better talent at a position thats even more immediate of a need. my top board currently has bosa, stanley, nkemdiche, ramsey, in that order.

 

I agree 100% there. I think LT only gets pick if we move back and see Bosa and Ramsey go, I'm not as high on Nkemdiche as you are, I think he's special, but it would be too much of a luxury pick for us 

[JoeyFlex5]

No, Gaither wasn't an UDFA. He was a former 5th round pick in the supplementary draft.

oh, well i was close lol 

 

 

I mean, I'm going to say it again because I've said it a lot already, but I have faith in Monroe if he's healthy... just hasn't been lately, and honestly, I think that's an issue with the Ravens. He was never injured in Jax, but he's oft injured here after undergoing a full training camp. That says something to me.

And as far as Gaither goes, he was good when he played, but similar to Monroe, he just was often injured.

There's a chance Stanley falls into the same predicament

 

I mean, I'm going to say it again because I've said it a lot already, but I have faith in Monroe if he's healthy... just hasn't been lately, and honestly, I think that's an issue with the Ravens. He was never injured in Jax, but he's oft injured here after undergoing a full training camp. That says something to me.

And as far as Gaither goes, he was good when he played, but similar to Monroe, he just was often injured.

There's a chance Stanley falls into the same predicament

thats always a chance, but gaither was more than just injured, he had a problem with straight up laziness. pretty sure you can cross that off the list regarding stanley. 

 

im just not ok with monroe being our only option at LT, the best ability is dependability, and monroe has shown that he isnt dependable. at such a critical position you just cant have your ONLY guy sitting on the trainers table every other month.

[JoeyFlex5]

I agree 100% there. I think LT only gets pick if we move back and see Bosa and Ramsey go, I'm not as high on Nkemdiche as you are, I think he's special, but it would be too much of a luxury pick for us 

i too think hes a luxury pick in the sense that hes a DT, but hes special, hes a moving piece that will allow a lot of flexibility in the near future regarding our DL, jernigan looks different, carl davis fell to the 3rd because he was reported to be lazy and have a bad attitude, if those guys want a 2nd contract then they would need to shape up or be shipped out with nkemdiche here, plus all of our Dlinemen are rotational players, it would be nice to get a guy that coaches cant take off the field. 

 

nkemdiche under clarence brooks would set the trend for 3-4 defenses, every team with a 3-4 will be searching high and low for "the next nkemdiche". you know how the OLB and the NT were always the positions that you NEEDED to begin building a 3-4? nkemdiche will make teams say "we need this superhero-esque DE that can slide anwhere in pass rush situations if we wanna build a 3-4" 

 

would still be hard pressed to take him over bosa/stanley/ramsey though, even if he is possibly the most talented guy in the draft.

[Baltimore RAYvens]

i too think hes a luxury pick in the sense that hes a DT, but hes special, hes a moving piece that will allow a lot of flexibility in the near future regarding our DL, jernigan looks different, carl davis fell to the 3rd because he was reported to be lazy and have a bad attitude, if those guys want a 2nd contract then they would need to shape up or be shipped out with nkemdiche here, plus all of our Dlinemen are rotational players, it would be nice to get a guy that coaches cant take off the field. 

 

nkemdiche under clarence brooks would set the trend for 3-4 defenses, every team with a 3-4 will be searching high and low for "the next nkemdiche". you know how the OLB and the NT were always the positions that you NEEDED to begin building a 3-4? nkemdiche will make teams say "we need this superhero-esque DE that can slide anwhere in pass rush situations if we wanna build a 3-4" 

 

would still be hard pressed to take him over bosa/stanley/ramsey though, even if he is possibly the most talented guy in the draft.

 I think that Watt is what every team is looking for now to build a 3-4 around. A dominant DE who can get to the QB as often as you used to expect your star OLBs to get there and still be a run stuffer.

 

I'll admit I haven't watched much tape on Nkemdiche yet, but if he can be that guy then by all means. Generally "I'm not as high on" means "I haven't watched enough tape to be sure"

[JoeyFlex5]

 I think that Watt is what every team is looking for now to build a 3-4 around. A dominant DE who can get to the QB as often as you used to expect your star OLBs to get there and still be a run stuffer.

 

I'll admit I haven't watched much tape on Nkemdiche yet, but if he can be that guy then by all means. Generally "I'm not as high on" means "I haven't watched enough tape to be sure"

i think nkemdiche is a more mobile piece. i think hes a dominant DE on run downs, then i think he slides in to NT or even may line up wide on the tackles outside shoulder. basically i think he is the kind of guy who is so physically dominant that he can succeed anywhere, all you gotta do is find the weak spot and send him there to exploit it, team has a center or guard who struggles in pass pro? put him at NT, the teams LT is finesse and cant handle strong guys? put him out wide and let him rush right down his throat. he is athletic enough for any DL position/role, and he is more than powerful enough to handle the interior line. he just has a rare and dangerous combination of everything. 

 

ill reiterate this though, while i think very highly of him, i still prefer bosa or stanley, possibly ramsey as well

[allblackraven]

i think nkemdiche is a more mobile piece. i think hes a dominant DE on run downs, then i think he slides in to NT or even may line up wide on the tackles outside shoulder. basically i think he is the kind of guy who is so physically dominant that he can succeed anywhere, all you gotta do is find the weak spot and send him there to exploit it, team has a center or guard who struggles in pass pro? put him at NT, the teams LT is finesse and cant handle strong guys? put him out wide and let him rush right down his throat. he is athletic enough for any DL position/role, and he is more than powerful enough to handle the interior line. he just has a rare and dangerous combination of everything. 

 

ill reiterate this though, while i think very highly of him, i still prefer bosa or stanley, possibly ramsey as well

He can also catch and score, like Watt:

 

[Baltimore RAYvens]

I figure the best thing he has going for him is that he's a d-linemen whose name starts with an N followed by a consonant and we just traded our guy like that away.

 

Without turning this into an Nkemdiche thread, I think that he has the ability to be special, and I'd probably take him over Stanley.

 

I would prefer his teammate as he first LT off the board, but either would be a good fit behind the top few guys

[Cillmatic]

He can also catch and score, like Watt:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRv1_2emTZw

Pretty fast for a DT

[BmoreBird22]

oh, well i was close lol

thats always a chance, but gaither was more than just injured, he had a problem with straight up laziness. pretty sure you can cross that off the list regarding stanley.

im just not ok with monroe being our only option at LT, the best ability is dependability, and monroe has shown that he isnt dependable. at such a critical position you just cant have your ONLY guy sitting on the trainers table every other month.

I really want the Ravens to examine their training camps and trainers. Guys just seem to drop like flies when they get here and it's infuriating.

I mean, it's not ideal to have Monroe as your only option, but I wouldn't pass on a Bosa or VH3 for a LT. I'd feel much better getting that "project" in the second, like the A&M tackle

[BmoreBird22]

Not to mention Oher. Tbh I don't mind Monroe and I could live with it if he saw out his contract with us and even signed a new one. But the fact that we have him is completely irrelevant to who I want. Like I said when defensive players were the only prospects being talked about, this is our chance to take our best LT since Ogden, and if there's a guy you like better than everyone else, you just make it work with him and Monroe for a season or two. And that guy I happen to like (better than any other prospect atm) is Stanley.

I'd be more interested to see the batting averages of the best LTs, as opposed to where the majority were taken. Off the top of my head, most of the truly elite LTs have been top 10 guys. There have been some whiffs for sure, but I can't think of any instances where true greatness at the position has been found outside the top 10 (as opposed to teams simply making do, like with Bakhtiari of the Packers). But even then, wherever we pick there should be an LT with a genuine case for BPA.

I think the best left tackle in the league is Joe Thomas and he was a top 5 pick, and then guys like Tyron Smith and Trent Williams fall somewhere in the top 10 and were picked in the top 10, but with guys like Peters (UDFA), Staley (late first), Beachum (not sure, but wasn't he like 7th round), Whitworth (second) in the mix as top 10 left tackles, you begin to see it can be done outside of the top 10.

[Maryland]

I think the best left tackle in the league is Joe Thomas and he was a top 5 pick, and then guys like Tyron Smith and Trent Williams fall somewhere in the top 10 and were picked in the top 10, but with guys like Peters (UDFA), Staley (late first), Beachum (not sure, but wasn't he like 7th round), Whitworth (second) in the mix as top 10 left tackles, you begin to see it can be done outside of the top 10.

Surprised you didn't put Jason Peters on your list He has been arguably the best LT in the league for the last 7 years or so. UDFA

 

I see your point where LTs can be found in lower rounds, but drafting them high can be worth the spot. Brandon Albert and Jake Long were good before they got injured; Joe Thomas too. Those highly-drafted LT prospects turn into LTs more often than not, and some of them very good ones. A couple of HOFers at the position, Ogden and Munoz, were drafted high. 

 

I really wanted Terron Armstead a couple years back in the 2nd round. Loved his athleticism. Would have solved our LT situation. 

[BmoreBird22]

Surprised you didn't put Jason Peters on your list He has been arguably the best LT in the league for the last 7 years or so. UDFA

I see your point where LTs can be found in lower rounds, but drafting them high can be worth the spot. Brandon Albert and Jake Long were good before they got injured; Joe Thomas too. Those highly-drafted LT prospects turn into LTs more often than not, and some of them very good ones. A couple of HOFers at the position, Ogden and Munoz, were drafted high.

I really wanted Terron Armstead a couple years back in the 2nd round. Loved his athleticism. Would have solved our LT situation.

Peters was the first one on the list that I mentioned.

As far as I know, Albert was a top 15 pick, but not top 10 or 5. I used to consider Jake Long to be the best tackle in the league, and obviously he went number one overall, but as far as highly drafted guys go, think of Fisher and Kalil. They went one and four respectively. One can't even get to LT and one is regressing at an alarming rate.

Then you have guys like Matthews and Joeckel who are finding their grooves, but aren't elite (yet).

Sure, drafting that high increases the odds that you get that elite one because you get your pick of the litter, but it's no guarantee and of course, guys can be found later. I'd rather just take that second round "project" and have him spot start than I would spend that top 5 pick on someone who may play LG for three years (or more depending on if Monroe gets healthy ever) than lose out on someone like Bosa

[JoeyFlex5]

I really want the Ravens to examine their training camps and trainers. Guys just seem to drop like flies when they get here and it's infuriating.

I mean, it's not ideal to have Monroe as your only option, but I wouldn't pass on a Bosa or VH3 for a LT. I'd feel much better getting that "project" in the second, like the A&M tackle

i really like ifedi in the 2nd round, like A LOT. i think hes a starter in the league and the value is very good there, i just dont see an all-pro caliber franchise LT in him, i see a solid starter, which is great and it works, i just like the thought of putting a true stonewall out there and never having to worry about joe getting harrassed from the backside. i think stanleys the type of guy who can truly eliminate any OLB/DE from the pass rush(except for watt). 

 

id absolutely pass on VH3 for stanley, i just dont see the value in a top 5 cb, i think the value of cb's in general are sort of blown out of proportion due to recent trends.

[BmoreBird22]

i really like ifedi in the 2nd round, like A LOT. i think hes a starter in the league and the value is very good there, i just dont see an all-pro caliber franchise LT in him, i see a solid starter, which is great and it works, i just like the thought of putting a true stonewall out there and never having to worry about joe getting harrassed from the backside. i think stanleys the type of guy who can truly eliminate any OLB/DE from the pass rush(except for watt).

id absolutely pass on VH3 for stanley, i just dont see the value in a top 5 cb, i think the value of cb's in general are sort of blown out of proportion due to recent trends.

Last year Joe had an injured Monroe and Hurst protecting his blindside and he only takes 19 sacks due to scheme.

He doesn't need an All-Pro, just someone solid and he can do well. He just needs more than the half second he's been getting this year

[BmoreBird22]

i really like ifedi in the 2nd round, like A LOT. i think hes a starter in the league and the value is very good there, i just dont see an all-pro caliber franchise LT in him, i see a solid starter, which is great and it works, i just like the thought of putting a true stonewall out there and never having to worry about joe getting harrassed from the backside. i think stanleys the type of guy who can truly eliminate any OLB/DE from the pass rush(except for watt).

id absolutely pass on VH3 for stanley, i just dont see the value in a top 5 cb, i think the value of cb's in general are sort of blown out of proportion due to recent trends.

Last year Joe had an injured Monroe and Hurst protecting his blindside and he only takes 19 sacks due to scheme.

He doesn't need an All-Pro, just someone solid and he can do well. He just needs more than the half second he's been getting this year

[ravefan52]

Surprised you didn't put Jason Peters on your list He has been arguably the best LT in the league for the last 7 years or so. UDFA

I see your point where LTs can be found in lower rounds, but drafting them high can be worth the spot. Brandon Albert and Jake Long were good before they got injured; Joe Thomas too. Those highly-drafted LT prospects turn into LTs more often than not, and some of them very good ones. A couple of HOFers at the position, Ogden and Munoz, were drafted high.

I really wanted Terron Armstead a couple years back in the 2nd round. Loved his athleticism. Would have solved our LT situation.

I'm still mad we didn't get Armstead. I loved him and he's turned out great. Instead we had to take Elam and Brown smh

[Inqui]

Last year Joe had an injured Monroe and Hurst protecting his blindside and he only takes 19 sacks due to scheme.

He doesn't need an All-Pro, just someone solid and he can do well. He just needs more than the half second he's been getting this year

Someone solid is fine, and that's Monroe (albeit when healthy), but if we get the chance to upgrade and find a franchise guy I think we should take him if he's the BPA - and I think Monroe's irrelevant to that discussion for a few different reasons. 

 

I can't be the only one who's wondered what would have happened if Joe had JO protecting his blindside for his whole career - especially during that dismal 2013 season - and no matter what happens in the draft (wouldn't mind if we took Bosa or Ramsey, depending on where the pick ends up) this is probably the closest we'll ever get to answering that question.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Inqui

[PurpleCity5]

If we miss out on Bosa and Nkemdiche then I want Stanley.