The Joey Bosa thread

[Edgar]

May strike some as a reach but I prefer Lawson as a Raven overall.

[trevorsteadman]

33 minutes ago, Edgar said:

May strike some as a reach but I prefer Lawson as a Raven overall.

I would rather have Dodd than Lawson. That is also a reach.

[Italian Raven]

32 minutes ago, Edgar said:

May strike some as a reach but I prefer Lawson as a Raven overall.

I've always liked him Shaq better. I think he's a better overall pass-rusher, even if he doesn't possess that natural leverage and punch to drive the blocker all the way back like Bosa does.
My issue is always the same though; if we're looking for an edge rusher with speed and bending, then neither of the 2 is the ultimate solution.

[Edgar]

43 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

I would rather have Dodd than Lawson. That is also a reach.

I think most people view Dodd as better off the edge with upside. 

[Edgar]

40 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

I've always liked him Shaq better. I think he's a better overall pass-rusher, even if he doesn't possess that natural leverage and punch to drive the blocker all the way back like Bosa does.
My issue is always the same though; if we're looking for an edge rusher with speed and bending, then neither of the 2 is the ultimate solution.

Well yeah. And finding that type of rusher was a clear priority in last year's draft. Ravens would have taken Dupree or Ray had they been there.

I think a dark horse pick in round one, particularly with even a minimal move back could be Spence.

[RaineV1]

Lawsome is the more pro-ready of the two, and the better one against the run. Dodd has much higher ceiling when it comes to pass rushing, but drafting athletic, one-year-wonder edge guys has potential to back fire.

Edited April 25, 2016 by RaineV1

[rossihunter2]

the problem with bosa is that while he is going to be a solid player, he doesn't strike me as someone who will take over games - i prefer spence, lawson, dodd, and even floyd as edge guys but obviously they are riskier moves - if I'm honest if Bosa's the pick at 6 then I'd trade back and take one of those other guys - the ravens need playmakers not solid average-good starters

[trevorsteadman]

6 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

the problem with bosa is that while he is going to be a solid player, he doesn't strike me as someone who will take over games - i prefer spence, lawson, dodd, and even floyd as edge guys but obviously they are riskier moves - if I'm honest if Bosa's the pick at 6 then I'd trade back and take one of those other guys - the ravens need playmakers not solid average-good starters

Bosa's ceililng is Suggs. They play a lot similarly. But his floor is Upshaw. Great in both the pass and run it just depends on how hard he works he can be as solid as Suggs.

[GrimCoconut]

12 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

the problem with bosa is that while he is going to be a solid player, he doesn't strike me as someone who will take over games - i prefer spence, lawson, dodd, and even floyd as edge guys but obviously they are riskier moves - if I'm honest if Bosa's the pick at 6 then I'd trade back and take one of those other guys - the ravens need playmakers not solid average-good starters

Honest question: do you honestly think you'd feel the same way regarding Bosa if we were picking 10th? I think a lot of people down on Bosa would be begging we have a chance at him "falling" to us. 

I think the inverse of what's happened for years has taken over: we're now down on top prospects because we know we can realistically get them and are rationalizing that they're not that good and we should trade back when we'd normally be begging to get some of these guys we claim to dislike at 6. 

4 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Bosa's ceililng is Suggs. They play a lot similarly. But his floor is Upshaw. Great in both the pass and run it just depends on how hard he works he can be as solid as Suggs.

I think his floor is higher than Upshaw. I think the Upshaw comparison is based on the idea that Bosa is some elite run defender who doesn't rush the passer that well outside a bull rush. I'll admit that Bosa bothers me because he does rely on his bull rush at times; however, he's shown the ability to use his hands and convert speed to power to explode through the OL and get to the QB. I've also watched him round the RT using his speed and hands to bend around and get to the QB.

I think his floor is much higher than Upshaw. 

[rossihunter2]

16 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Honest question: do you honestly think you'd feel the same way regarding Bosa if we were picking 10th? I think a lot of people down on Bosa would be begging we have a chance at him "falling" to us. 

I think the inverse of what's happened for years has taken over: we're now down on top prospects because we know we can realistically get them and are rationalizing that they're not that good and we should trade back when we'd normally be begging to get some of these guys we claim to dislike at 6. 

I think his floor is higher than Upshaw. I think the Upshaw comparison is based on the idea that Bosa is some elite run defender who doesn't rush the passer that well outside a bull rush. I'll admit that Bosa bothers me because he does rely on his bull rush at times; however, he's shown the ability to use his hands and convert speed to power to explode through the OL and get to the QB. I've also watched him round the RT using his speed and hands to bend around and get to the QB.

I think his floor is much higher than Upshaw. 

i'm not down on bosa, i just think he's not worth a 6th. you're right that i'd love him if we were picking at 10 - in fact if we could get him at 10 with a trade back i'd be ecstatic. I agree he had a much higher floor than upshaw, but I don't see him bullying defenders like suggs - for me he won in college because his technique was better than everyone else rather than any game wrecking ability

obviously if he's the pick then i bow to the better judgement of Oz ane Eric but I worry about how deep he has to get to turn the corner in a lot of his tape

[Italian Raven]

4 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I think his floor is higher than Upshaw. I think the Upshaw comparison is based on the idea that Bosa is some elite run defender who doesn't rush the passer that well outside a bull rush. I'll admit that Bosa bothers me because he does rely on his bull rush at times; however, he's shown the ability to use his hands and convert speed to power to explode through the OL and get to the QB. I've also watched him round the RT using his speed and hands to bend around and get to the QB.

I've seen him beating his man (effectively) only 4 times in 8 games.. I don't see him being fast, infact he collected quite many offsides for guessing the snacount wrong and his overall speed is not really good. He does show a good motor even when engaged but I wouldn't call him "fast".
I'll back it up in few hours as I finish to scrutinize the Indiana game on my Microsoft Word doc (hopefully I'll be able to upload it).

[GrimCoconut]

5 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

I've seen him beating his man (effectively) only 4 times in 8 games.. I don't see him being fast, infact he collected quite many offsides for guessing the snacount wrong and his overall speed is not really good. He does show a good motor even when engaged but I wouldn't call him "fast".
I'll back it up in few hours as I finish to scrutinize the Indiana game on my Microsoft Word doc (hopefully I'll be able to upload it).

Which games did you watch? I don't think he played as well in 2015 as he did in 2014. Watch some 2014 games and then talk to me, unless you already have. I think he played a lot faster around the edge in 2014 than 2015. 

[rossihunter2]

5 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

I've seen him beating his man (effectively) only 4 times in 8 games.. I don't see him being fast, infact he collected quite many offsides for guessing the snacount wrong and his overall speed is not really good. He does show a good motor even when engaged but I wouldn't call him "fast".
I'll back it up in few hours as I finish to scrutinize the Indiana game on my Microsoft Word doc (hopefully I'll be able to upload it).

i agree, for me it's not that i'm damning him for putting in lots of effort because that's valuable but at #6 i want to see him dominant and not being forced so deep to turn the corner that he's out of the play

 

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

Which games did you watch? I don't think he played as well in 2015 as he did in 2014. Watch some 2014 games and then talk to me, unless you already have. I think he played a lot faster around the edge in 2014 than 2015. 

i think it also helps you be more effective when there's a good rusher on the other side (as in 2014 with spence)

[Kinda_Dante]

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i agree, for me it's not that i'm damning him for putting in lots of effort because that's valuable but at #6 i want to see him dominant and not being forced so deep to turn the corner that he's out of the play

 

i think it also helps you be more effective when there's a good rusher on the other side (as in 2014 with spence)

Yea in 2015 I can't recall any plays where he had a one on one matchup. Here with Suggs, Doom, And Z Smith, id expect for him to get better match ups.

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, Kinda_Dante said:

Yea in 2015 I can't recall any plays where he had a one on one matchup. Here with Suggs, Doom, And Z Smith, id expect for him to get better match ups.

that's true, but i'd rather take someone who doesn't need the easier matchup to make the play and then give them the easier matchup and see what they can do rather than someone who showed only their best play when they had help

[Italian Raven]

12 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Which games did you watch? I don't think he played as well in 2015 as he did in 2014. Watch some 2014 games and then talk to me, unless you already have. I think he played a lot faster around the edge in 2014 than 2015. 

The only ones available: Oregon, MSU, Michigan, Clemson.
Btw yes, 50% of the times he won outside, hence 2, came vs Ore and Cle.. it's an extremely small sample size but if we consider them as synonimous of 'speed' then you're right; he was probably playing faster back then.

[Kinda_Dante]

9 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

that's true, but i'd rather take someone who doesn't need the easier matchup to make the play and then give them the easier matchup and see what they can do rather than someone who showed only their best play when they had help

He doesn't need easier match ups he just needs to not have to fight through 3 blockers on every play to get to the QB.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Kinda_Dante

[Sense&Sensibility]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think it also helps you be more effective when there's a good rusher on the other side (as in 2014 with spence)

Spence didn't play at Ohio state in 2014, was supended in fall of same year before season began... in his best season bosa didn't have a dominant pass rusher opposite him so there goes that theory.. 

[ALPHA]

He is a better pass rusher than Upshaw but I don't know if Suggs is his upside, maybe Greg Hardy or Cam Jordan.

[Italian Raven]

Just a personal contribute to the neverending Bosa discussion.
It's an extremely subjective work, as I probably tend to be excessively nitpicking at times where some people may point out that it wasn't a bad play.   
Therefore I added one neutral column of 'intermediate' plays that I couldn't locate in either categories.

I didn't want everybody to have a headache because thousands auto-running GIFs nor I wanted to be kicked out of the forum, so I simply ended up copy-pasting the gifs' url into the paper. 
The result isn't as fluid and enjoyable as any of those reports you see around the internet, because you have to do the reverse thing to see the play, but my intent wasn't to write a scouting report.
I wanted to provide a much larger sample size of gifs than usual in order to debunk any remaining myth on his account and miss as few traits of his game as possible. 
If you have suggestion on how to turn this '"archive's" layout into something better I accept any. It might turn useful for the next time.
 

Joey Bosa.docx

[RavensDieHard21]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 5:17 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

I've heard a ton of comparisons to Bosa. Watt which I really don't like and I myself have compared him to Suggs in this defense. However watching Bosa over the weekend, I couldn't stop thinking about Trevor Pryce. He'd have to pack on about 15-20lbs to consistently play the 5tech imo but I think he could live there. I just really love his versatility and think he'll carve out his own niche in the NFL be it with the Ravens or not. The ability to move Bosa around and allow others to get on the field as well will be huge. 

I can just envision playing a quick passing team and having Bosa and Urban rushing from the inside with those long arms blocking passing lanes. Or lining Bosa up at the 5tech to rush inside while allowing Doom a ISO on the RT. Or using that quick inside step from the DT position to run a stunt with Timmy. Bosa would allow Pees to get so creative without blitzing. He's the kind of attention grabber that make guys like Urban and Davis look better because of 1on1 match ups. 

I completely agree here! Bosa would allow Pees to get very creative and get constant pressure without having to send 5 or 6 guys.