The Joey Bosa thread

[52520Andrew]

2 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Watching Lawson play reminds me of Suggs. I think he can be one of the best all around edge guys in this draft.

Yeah I saw him drop back into coverage more than I expected to which isn't huge for me but is always nice to see. Has a pretty good inside counter move and of course that spin move. Little more speed around the edge would be ideal but he weighed in the same amount as Bosa so it isn't like he can't drop a few and in theory gain a bit in that department. High motor player for the most part as well. 

[GrimCoconut]

24 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Watching Lawson play reminds me of Suggs. I think he can be one of the best all around edge guys in this draft.

I don't see Suggs in Lawson.

[JoeyFlex5]

The one player I see suggs in, is Calhoun. Smart and refined. Mentally toys with the OT he's facing, doesn't lean on speed or power, but uses quickness and good hands and intellect. I see a shawne merriman or James Harrison with Lawson. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The one player I see suggs in, is Calhoun. Smart and refined. Mentally toys with the OT he's facing, doesn't lean on speed or power, but uses quickness and good hands and intellect. I see a shawne merriman or James Harrison with Lawson. 

Maybe. I remember Suggs coming out of Arizona State (videos, mind you--I was much too young to actually remember him) and he had a very fast first-step off the snap. I am talking really good. You can see how he became a high pick but he also had production to go with the step. That's the big deal with Suggs. I don't see that in Calhoun, but he is a good player. That said, he put on some really nice sack numbers and has been steady at it, and I like steady. One thing I don't like is his age. He'll be a 24-yo rookie. 

[RavensDieHard21]

3 hours ago, 52520Andrew said:

Yeah I saw him drop back into coverage more than I expected to which isn't huge for me but is always nice to see. Has a pretty good inside counter move and of course that spin move. Little more speed around the edge would be ideal but he weighed in the same amount as Bosa so it isn't like he can't drop a few and in theory gain a bit in that department. High motor player for the most part as well. 

It is sad that I don't see him as our pick, but I'd be willing to say that he will be a top 10 talent that teams wish they took. He just doesn't have any major weaknesses other than speed, which as you stated could be solved by dropping 5-10 pounds. He has a full arsenal of pass rush moves that make him a dangerous rookie, especially if he lands somewhere like here where he can really develop.

[Tru11]

5 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Boxscore scouting is the worst type of scouting because he had 48 hurries and 13 quarterback hits in addition to his six sacks in just 14 games. That's nearly 5 quarterback disruptions per game... He was nearly on par with Von Miller and Khalil Mack, which is extremely impressive company (especially considering he only started 12 games and played less than 47% of the snaps over the second half of the season because he was dealing with a knee injury).

Also, quick fun quiz: name another notable pass rusher that the Bears had to draw attention away from McPhee.

all fun and all and certainly impressive for a former 5th round pick but if you actually look at the production and overall impact mcphee is far from being in the same conversation as miller or mack.

no sane person is going to argue here that he would have 0 trouble taking mcphee over miller or mack......

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Tru11

[BmoreBird22]

6 hours ago, Tru11 said:

all fun and all and certainly impressive for a former 5th round pick but if you actually look at the production and overall impact mcphee is far from being in the same conversation as miller or mack.

no sane person is going to argue here that he would have 0 trouble taking mcphee over miller or mack......

They also offer quite a bit more in the run and pass coverage aspect, even if they don't do it a lot, so no, no one is taking McPhee over them, but in terms of being a pass rusher, he is not that far behind in terms of being disruptive. 

[52520Andrew]

7 hours ago, Tru11 said:

all fun and all and certainly impressive for a former 5th round pick but if you actually look at the production and overall impact mcphee is far from being in the same conversation as miller or mack.

no sane person is going to argue here that he would have 0 trouble taking mcphee over miller or mack......

 

 

You have 6 players in the draft who are worth that much? Both guys would not make our pick if they were in this draft. This ain't the 2011 or 2014 draft classes, gotta take the best talent that is there.

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

They also offer quite a bit more in the run and pass coverage aspect, even if they don't do it a lot, so no, no one is taking McPhee over them, but in terms of being a pass rusher, he is not that far behind in terms of being disruptive. 

i rather have someone who also gets sacks beside being disruptive.

not sure why you want to settle with someone who is just being disruptive.

 

50 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

You have 6 players in the draft who are worth that much? Both guys would not make our pick if they were in this draft. This ain't the 2011 or 2014 draft classes, gotta take the best talent that is there.

Not really.

if the talent is not worth the pick you trade down or move up to get the guy you deem worthy.

if Bosa projection as a 3-4 OLB is Mcphee then to me he is not worth being taken there.

i expect a lot more from a 6th overall pick then what mcphee brought.

 

 

[52520Andrew]

1 minute ago, Tru11 said:

Not really.

if the talent is not worth the pick you trade down or move up to get the guy you deem worthy.

if Bosa projection as a 3-4 OLB is Mcphee then to me he is not worth being taken there.

i expect a lot more from a 6th overall pick then what mcphee brought.

 

 

That is unrealistic as the talent level in every draft is different

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

i rather have someone who also gets sacks beside being disruptive.

not sure why you want to settle with someone who is just being disruptive.

 

Not really.

if the talent is not worth the pick you trade down or move up to get the guy you deem worthy.

if Bosa projection as a 3-4 OLB is Mcphee then to me he is not worth being taken there.

i expect a lot more from a 6th overall pick then what mcphee brought.

 

 

I agree, but... Are people realistically saying Bosa Will be like mcphee? I don't see ANYTHING even remotely close to that. Completely different styles of play. With Bosa i see a pass rushing style that is actually similar to dumervil, good first step, gets up under the pads, drives hard and low, and makes his move deep inside the pocket and quickly closes in on the qb. Not to mention he projects as an elite run defender as well, something mcphee was never too impressive with. 

 

I wish people would chill with the player comparisons because they are just so loosely based that they don't even make sense anymore. "We miss this pass rusher so this edge rushing prospect will be the exact same player for us". That's what player comps have become.

[BmoreBird22]

10 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

i rather have someone who also gets sacks beside being disruptive.

not sure why you want to settle with someone who is just being disruptive.

No one is settling, but he has literally no one else on that team to take away any attention. It's how a guy like Dumervil goes from 17 sacks to six sacks.

Again, without using Google, name another notable pass rusher on the Bears in 2015.

[Tru11]

13 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

That is unrealistic as the talent level in every draft is different

trading up or down is unrealistic?

i dont get what you are trying to say.

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I agree, but... Are people realistically saying Bosa Will be like mcphee? I don't see ANYTHING even remotely close to that. Completely different styles of play. With Bosa i see a pass rushing style that is actually similar to dumervil, good first step, gets up under the pads, drives hard and low, and makes his move deep inside the pocket and quickly closes in on the qb. Not to mention he projects as an elite run defender as well, something mcphee was never too impressive with. 

 

I wish people would chill with the player comparisons because they are just so loosely based that they don't even make sense anymore. "We miss this pass rusher so this edge rushing prospect will be the exact same player for us". That's what player comps have become.

well people say bosa can be a 3-4 OLB and use mcphee as an example.

well if that is the case id pass on for the 6th overal pick.

personally i see him bulk up some more and play DE in a role similiar to Watt TBH.

they have a similar size and build only JJ is heavier by not to much.

if he can get close to the impact JJ has then im all for it.

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No one is settling, but he has literally no one else on that team to take away any attention. It's how a guy like Dumervil goes from 17 sacks to six sacks.

Again, without using Google, name another notable pass rusher on the Bears in 2015.

you seriously trying to argue mcphee is an elite OLB in the same class as mack and miller?

Edited April 6, 2016 by Tru11

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

you seriously trying to argue mcphee is an elite OLB in the same class as mack and miller?

I didn't say that, now did I? I just said his numbers in terms of pressures, hits, and sacks on a snap by snap basis is pretty comparable to the point that the difference is nearly negligible. In fact, he may be more consistent in terms of pressures per snap.

Edited April 6, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[52520Andrew]

22 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

trading up or down is unrealistic?

i dont get what you are trying to say.

The price of a trade up or down depends on the player available. There is a reason the #2 overall pick in 2012 went for so much while the Dolphins moving up to #3 in 2013 from pretty far down didn't give up much. If we don't see a player at 6 who we like, who is going to give us great value in trading down? Only realistic situation I see for a trade down is if someone wants a QB as they will likely not be high on our board.

As for moving up, that would also take a big investment and I don't know if I would give up a high pick in addition to #6 overall for anyone unless it is Tunsil who would more than likely need a King's ransom. Maybe Ramsey but he has probably the lowest floor of the top prospects due to being a bit undisciplined(see Houston TD he gave up) for such a big investment.

Edited April 6, 2016 by 52520Andrew

[Tru11]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I didn't say that, now did I? I just said his numbers in terms of pressures, hits, and sacks on a snap by snap basis is pretty comparable to the point that the difference is nearly negligible.

so is mcphee in the same class as mack/miller or not?

im saying he is not.

are you agreeing or disagreeing with  me?

 

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Tru11 said:

so is mcphee in the same class as mack/miller or not?

im saying he is not.

are you agreeing or disagreeing with  me?

I'm not arguing that. All I said is that boxscore scouting is terrible because he was just as consistent from a PRP (pass rushing productivity) standpoint, if not better.

[Tru11]

Just now, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm not arguing that. All I said is that boxscore scouting is terrible because he was just as consistent from a PRP (pass rushing productivity) standpoint, if not better.

yes you did cause you brought both miller and mack into the discussion by comparing mcphee PRP to them.

im not the 1 who brought them up, you did.

 

[Tru11]

11 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

The price of a trade up or down depends on the player available. There is a reason the #2 overall pick in 2012 went for so much while the Dolphins moving up to #3 from pretty far down didn't give up much. If we don't see a player at 6 who we like, who is going to give us great value in trading down? Only realistic situation I see for a trade down is if someone wants a QB as they will likely not be high on our board.

As for moving up, that would also take a big investment and I don't know if I would give up a high pick in addition to #6 overall for anyone unless it is Tunsil who would more than likely need a King's ransom. Maybe Ramsey but he has probably the lowest floor of the top prospects due to being a bit undisciplined(see Houston TD he gave up) for such a big investment.

lol.

you do know that every team has a different value for each and every player right?

example : a 4-3 team will see more value in bosa @ 6 as DE then we might do as him in the same spot as a 3-4 OLB.......

[52520Andrew]

3 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

lol.

you do know that every team has a different value for each and every player right?

example : a 4-3 team will see more value in bosa @ 6 as DE then we might do as him in the same spot as a 3-4 OLB.......

But will they see them as a Von Miller or Khalil Mack type player?

Also the Ravens run a 4 man front in nickel which they are in quite a bit(don't have the exact stats on me but I wouldn't be shocked if it were more than their base defense, heck the base defense for the Steelers last year was nickel). And it isn't like Bosa would be lost in our base defense either as we need someone to set the edge on early downs and replace Upshaw which Bosa should be more than able to do. Shift him inside on passing downs when we go to a 4 man front and throw Suggs, Jernigan, Bosa, and Doom at the QB and there is your scheme fit. I actually think he would be more effective in this role than as a 4-3 DE for every snap.

Edited April 6, 2016 by 52520Andrew

[BmoreBird22]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

yes you did cause you brought both miller and mack into the discussion by comparing mcphee PRP to them.

im not the 1 who brought them up, you did.

Nope, did not compare them. I was simply pointing out that the perceived elites had similar, well lower, actually, PRP's than McPhee, so boxscore scouting is a terrible tactic. It was more using them as a reference since everyone knows who they are. I could have pulled any two productive names for the same effect, but those are the ones everyone knows.

Take that as you will.

[BmoreBird22]

17 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

yes you did cause you brought both miller and mack into the discussion by comparing mcphee PRP to them.

im not the 1 who brought them up, you did.

Ah yes, just found the stat- His 16.5 PRP was first among ALL 3-4 OLB's and he accounted for a quarter of all the Bears' pressures. 

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Tru11 said:

trading up or down is unrealistic?

i dont get what you are trying to say.

well people say bosa can be a 3-4 OLB and use mcphee as an example.

well if that is the case id pass on for the 6th overal pick.

personally i see him bulk up some more and play DE in a role similiar to Watt TBH.

they have a similar size and build only JJ is heavier by not to much.

if he can get close to the impact JJ has then im all for it.

you seriously trying to argue mcphee is an elite OLB in the same class as mack and miller?

That's what I see from bosa. I think against the run he's an elite run defender at OLB but in the pass rush I think hes gonna be a great 5tech and 3tech hybrid. I also like him as a 9wide DE for nickel packages because he is impossible to stonewall if he gets a head of steam because of how powerful he is and how low he gets, if we take Bosa I'd really like to see a 9wide formation implemented for nickel packages.

[Sense&Sensibility]

With the mention of how much Ravens use nickel D it might be appropriate to point out all of NFL is going nickel as base D, 63.4% plays in 2015 featured 5 DBs.. just a continuation of an upward trend..

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25541357/heres-why-the-nickel-defense-is-the-new-base-defense-in-the-nfl

Also, I think Ryan Kerrigan is a better comparison to Bosa if one has to compare (if he transitioned well to OLB don't see why Bosa cant),  although like McPhee he can be kicked inside as interior rusher... Like previously said here, set edge on 1 & 2 downs, rush from inside on obvious passing downs. No matter which way you slice it he improves our team... 

[Tru11]

28 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Ah yes, just found the stat- His 16.5 PRP was first among ALL 3-4 OLB's and he accounted for a quarter of all the Bears' pressures. 

so you would take mcphee over mack and miller?

you say you dont like boxscore scouting but then again all you seem to do is focus on this stat.

pretty much contradicting.

 

43 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

But will they see them as a Von Miller or Khalil Mack type player?

Also the Ravens run a 4 man front in nickel which they are in quite a bit(don't have the exact stats on me but I wouldn't be shocked if it were more than their base defense, heck the base defense for the Steelers last year was nickel). And it isn't like Bosa would be lost in our base defense either as we need someone to set the edge on early downs and replace Upshaw which Bosa should be more than able to do. Shift him inside on passing downs when we go to a 4 man front and throw Suggs, Jernigan, Bosa, and Doom at the QB and there is your scheme fit. I actually think he would be more effective in this role than as a 4-3 DE for every snap.

why would they seem him as a miler or mack type?

he seems closer to jared allen or justin smith to me.

it would be a waste to use bosa as a OLB in our scheme since we demand a lot more from our players then just simply set the edge or rush the passer.

a 4-3 DE or 3-4 DE seems more fitting for him TBH.

35 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

That's what I see from bosa. I think against the run he's an elite run defender at OLB but in the pass rush I think hes gonna be a great 5tech and 3tech hybrid. I also like him as a 9wide DE for nickel packages because he is impossible to stonewall if he gets a head of steam because of how powerful he is and how low he gets, if we take Bosa I'd really like to see a 9wide formation implemented for nickel packages.

ow no doubt he would be able to set the edge as a OLB but im wondering what he is going to be like when its not run and he has to drop in cov or cover a TE, RB when its play action orso  lol.

i dont think people understand that upshaw did more then simply set the edge.

as the strong side lber  you might have to do other things when its not a run and im not sure Bosa has what it takes to play in coverage.

i do see him as a great 5tech and 3tech hybrid and if we draft him its where i want him to play full time.

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Ah yes, just found the stat- His 16.5 PRP was first among ALL 3-4 OLB's and he accounted for a quarter of all the Bears' pressures. 

Also, for what it's worth, he was BleacherReport 2nd rated OLB last year, behind Justin Houston. So I do consider McPhee an elite edge rusher and I'm not the only one apparently.

 

7 minutes ago, Sense&Sensibility said:

With the mention of how much Ravens use nickel D it might be appropriate to point out all of NFL is going nickel as base D, 63.4% plays in 2015 featured 5 DBs.. just a continuation of an upward trend..

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25541357/heres-why-the-nickel-defense-is-the-new-base-defense-in-the-nfl

Also, I think Ryan Kerrigan is a better comparison to Bosa if one has to compare (if he transitioned well to OLB don't see why Bosa cant),  although like McPhee he can be kicked inside as interior rusher... Like previously said here, set edge on 1 & 2 downs, rush from inside on obvious passing downs. No matter which way you slice it he improves our team... 

Thank you so much

[Jacquouille]

4 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

it would be a waste to use bosa as a OLB in our scheme since we demand a lot more from our players then just simply set the edge or rush the passer.

Not really, Upshaw was the only one who occasionnally dropped in coverage, and that's because he was our only LB that was decent in that area. Hence the need for a cover ILB

[BmoreBird22]

2 hours ago, Tru11 said:

so you would take mcphee over mack and miller?

you say you dont like boxscore scouting but then again all you seem to do is focus on this stat.

pretty much contradicting.

That's not the discssion and never has been. You keep trying to make it into that.

No, it really is not contradicting because what I meant is looking at sacks and using that as your argument is flawed without putting it into context. 

In a much more limited amount of snaps, McPhee is providing equal amounts of pressure without another player on that entire defense to draw attention. His sacks may not be impressive until you consider all factors.

2 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

Also, for what it's worth, he was BleacherReport 2nd rated OLB last year, behind Justin Houston. So I do consider McPhee an elite edge rusher and I'm not the only one apparently.

 

Thank you so much

He was number three or four this year.

[52520Andrew]

59 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

why would they seem him as a miler or mack type?

he seems closer to jared allen or justin smith to me.

it would be a waste to use bosa as a OLB in our scheme since we demand a lot more from our players then just simply set the edge or rush the passer.

a 4-3 DE or 3-4 DE seems more fitting for him TBH.

ow no doubt he would be able to set the edge as a OLB but im wondering what he is going to be like when its not run and he has to drop in cov or cover a TE, RB when its play action orso  lol.

That moment you realize Justin Smith played in a 3-4 in San Francisco and did pretty well there

Bosa has dropped in coverage and did not look out of place. I wouldn't trust Upshaw in coverage with a RB or TE either, that is a mismatch.

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

That moment you realize Justin Smith played in a 3-4 in San Francisco and did pretty well there

Bosa has dropped in coverage and did not look out of place. I wouldn't trust Upshaw in coverage with a RB or TE either, that is a mismatch.

i know lol.

he played as a DE not an OLB.....

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

That's not the discssion and never has been. You keep trying to make it into that.

No, it really is not contradicting because what I meant is looking at sacks and using that as your argument is flawed without putting it into context. 

In a much more limited amount of snaps, McPhee is providing equal amounts of pressure without another player on that entire defense to draw attention. His sacks may not be impressive until you consider all factors.

He was number three or four this year.

yeah cause lamar houston , willie young and eddie goldman did nothing noteworthy right.....

also who are you to decide what i am discussing?

you replied to me which means you joined my discussion.

l was talking about impact , snaps , being a starter and his production , so i was not talking only about sacks.

also my point simply was and remains that yes what mcphee has done as a 5th round pick so far is impressive but if he where the 6th overall pick i would be  dissapointed cause i expect more.

you are free to believe that what mcphee has done so far in his career or only last season is impressive and is enough to make him worth a 6th overal pick but i dont and wont.

Again for the 6th overall pick i expect more then what mcphee has brought so far....

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Tru11