The Joey Bosa thread

[52520Andrew]

Yeah I think Bosa is one of the safest picks in the draft and even if he can't be good enough rushing the passer as an OLB, he can be an absolute terror inside.

[RavensFan38173]

17 hours ago, Clmraven said:

Can you explain with your own words on why he's not a good pass rusher? (I'm not about to watch a 45min video by some random) I don't like to say someone's opinion is wrong because everyone is entitled to their own... But your opinion seems really wrong.

Bosa has amazing power, but he doesn't have much technique. The biggest thing from his film that you notice is that he generates most of his pressure with pure strength. The only problem is that O-Linemen in the NFL are much stronger. Once he can't push them around like he could in college, he'll have to learn swim moves, spin moves, etc. That being said, I still think he's the best run defending edge in this draft. I just think he's worth a pick in the 8-10 range.

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, RavensFan38173 said:

Bosa has amazing power, but he doesn't have much technique. The biggest thing from his film that you notice is that he generates most of his pressure with pure strength. The only problem is that O-Linemen in the NFL are much stronger. Once he can't push them around like he could in college, he'll have to learn swim moves, spin moves, etc. That being said, I still think he's the best run defending edge in this draft. I just think he's worth a pick in the 8-10 range.

Simply not true. not sure what you're watching but we haven't seen an edge defender with his arsenal of moves coming out for as long as I can remember. His film completely debunks this opinion.

[Clmraven]

2 hours ago, RavensFan38173 said:

Bosa has amazing power, but he doesn't have much technique. The biggest thing from his film that you notice is that he generates most of his pressure with pure strength. The only problem is that O-Linemen in the NFL are much stronger. Once he can't push them around like he could in college, he'll have to learn swim moves, spin moves, etc. That being said, I still think he's the best run defending edge in this draft. I just think he's worth a pick in the 8-10 range.

He already has better technique than some NFL lineman, he uses his hands better than anyone in the draft, and he already uses swim moves and I've seen him use a spin every once in a while.

[JoeyFlex5]

I just can't understand how someone like Jaylon Smith can get so many co signers about how he is a bona fide top 5 talent who just has injury concerns, meanwhile people look for every excuse to make bosa seem like JAG.. Am I missing something here? Boss's tape is up there with tunsil, jack, and zeke as some of the best in the draft, every myth one can perpetrate about him has been debunked over and over, meanwhile guys with glaring flaws and huge inconsistencies are getting endless praise like Jaylon Smith and Noah Spence.

[rmw10]

7 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I just can't understand how someone like Jaylon Smith can get so many co signers about how he is a bona fide top 5 talent who just has injury concerns, meanwhile people look for every excuse to make bosa seem like JAG.. Am I missing something here? Boss's tape is up there with tunsil, jack, and zeke as some of the best in the draft, every myth one can perpetrate about him has been debunked over and over, meanwhile guys with glaring flaws and huge inconsistencies are getting endless praise like Jaylon Smith and Noah Spence.

Jaylon Smith was my #1 player pre-injury.  I'm honestly not sure what you were watching if you don't think he's one of the top prospects pre-injury.

[allblackraven]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I just can't understand how someone like Jaylon Smith can get so many co signers about how he is a bona fide top 5 talent who just has injury concerns, meanwhile people look for every excuse to make bosa seem like JAG.. Am I missing something here? Boss's tape is up there with tunsil, jack, and zeke as some of the best in the draft, every myth one can perpetrate about him has been debunked over and over, meanwhile guys with glaring flaws and huge inconsistencies are getting endless praise like Jaylon Smith and Noah Spence.

Smith's tape is as good as any player's in this draft. To me though, he just isn't a good fit for our team.

[JoeyFlex5]

15 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Smith's tape is as good as any player's in this draft. To me though, he just isn't a good fit for our team.

A LB who plays like he's legitimately afraid of contact with anyone who isn't a ball carrier, is average in coverage and only plays great when given a wide open lane to shoot into the backfield, is not what I'd call impressive tape. 

 

All I see is a decent 43 OLB who could be a liability in traffic and could struggle with nfl te's because he struggles with physical opponents. 

[JoeyFlex5]

23 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Jaylon Smith was my #1 player pre-injury.  I'm honestly not sure what you were watching if you don't think he's one of the top prospects pre-injury.

Hes a highlights player man. What was so impressive about his tape? He looked like a collie herding sheep out there the way he was always circling the crowd and making tackles way downfield because he doesn't pursue with any type of authority. He gives up ground and avoids contact on nearly every snap and because he shoots the occasional running lane really quick and makes backfield tackles that makes him the #1 player? I never really saw the appeal and did not like his film at all. He just looked decent to me, I see nothing special and I've done a good bit of film study

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Hes a highlights player man. What was so impressive about his tape? He looked like a collie herding sheep out there the way he was always circling the crowd and making tackles way downfield because he doesn't pursue with any type of authority. He gives up ground and avoids contact on nearly every snap and because he shoots the occasional running lane really quick and makes backfield tackles that makes him the #1 player? I never really saw the appeal and did not like his film at all. He just looked decent to me, I see nothing special and I've done a good bit of film study

Literally almost everything.  Great in coverage, sideline to sideline ability, good as a situational rusher, good angles.  I hate to be this harsh, but I think you're incredibly off base if you don't see a top 5 prospect.  He's the ideal LB for today's NFL game.

[JoeyFlex5]

30 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Literally almost everything.  Great in coverage, sideline to sideline ability, good as a situational rusher, good angles.  I hate to be this harsh, but I think you're incredibly off base if you don't see a top 5 prospect.  He's the ideal LB for today's NFL game.

I think Myles Jack fits the mold of the traits you just listed aside from the pass rushing. I just see Jaylon Smith as a big fat notch below Jack in every aspect except for pass rushing. 

 

Maybe if he wasn't in the same class as Myles Jack I would value him higher. Hes better than any linebacker to come out since kuechly but I also don't think he's on the level kuechly was as a prospect. 

 

The lack of physicality is just a real concern for me. He looks tentative in traffic and unless he has a nice fat patch of green between him and the ball then he circles around and gives up ground too often for my liking. I'm not denying his talent I just don't think he's some perfect prospect like many seem to think.

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Hes a highlights player man. What was so impressive about his tape? He looked like a collie herding sheep out there the way he was always circling the crowd and making tackles way downfield because he doesn't pursue with any type of authority. He gives up ground and avoids contact on nearly every snap and because he shoots the occasional running lane really quick and makes backfield tackles that makes him the #1 player? I never really saw the appeal and did not like his film at all. He just looked decent to me, I see nothing special and I've done a good bit of film study

You say you never really saw the appeal but I could've sworn you liked him and I recall you bragging at one point that you were the first to say he'd be a good 3-4 OLB but maybe I'm mixing people up here

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

You say you never really saw the appeal but I could've sworn you liked him and I recall you bragging at one point that you were the first to say he'd be a good 3-4 OLB but maybe I'm mixing people up here

I thought that for a hot minute because I thought of the possibility of him packing on 20 lbs and maintaining his burst. I DO like the kids first step a lot and he has more pass rushing moves than your average traditional linebacker, it was an interesting thought to have your starting OLB in a 34 being able to drop into coverage consistently and make an impact just as often as he rushes. But after some more thought I just didn't think it was realistic, and after more film study I had to wonder if he avoids blockers like the plague because he's small, or if he just doesn't play with a hard nose close to the line, I just think it's the latter. 

 

I see Leonard Floyd as a very similar player but he plays with a lot more fire when he's in traffic, he may be skinny but he's not afraid to mix it up and punch a blocker in the mouth when he needs to, he has a lot of the same skill set and field iq but he has the upper hand in measurables and edge rushing. If we want an undersized 34 OLB who excels in space, I'll take Floyd over Smith, and I may have felt the same even without the injury.

[thieverycorporation]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I thought that for a hot minute because I thought of the possibility of him packing on 20 lbs and maintaining his burst. I DO like the kids first step a lot and he has more pass rushing moves than your average traditional linebacker, it was an interesting thought to have your starting OLB in a 34 being able to drop into coverage consistently and make an impact just as often as he rushes. But after some more thought I just didn't think it was realistic, and after more film study I had to wonder if he avoids blockers like the plague because he's small, or if he just doesn't play with a hard nose close to the line, I just think it's the latter. 

 

I see Leonard Floyd as a very similar player but he plays with a lot more fire when he's in traffic, he may be skinny but he's not afraid to mix it up and punch a blocker in the mouth when he needs to, he has a lot of the same skill set and field iq but he has the upper hand in measurables and edge rushing. If we want an undersized 34 OLB who excels in space, I'll take Floyd over Smith, and I may have felt the same even without the injury.

I gotta co sign the critique because you did claim you saw much more then your claim now. No one remembers all your post but I distinctly remember you being very high the lukewarm then high. I know the possibilities are endless but remember what you post. If you don't remember thats different? But you are a valued poster here so lets just chock this one up as you were drunk maybe! lol

Jaylon Smith pre injury is the truth @ linebacker. Smashmouth barr none. Just my 12 cents

Edited March 25, 2016 by thieverycorporation

[nishadrahman13]

32 minutes ago, thieverycorporation said:

I gotta co sign the critique because you did claim you saw much more then your claim now. No one remembers all your post but I distinctly remember you being very high the lukewarm then high. I know the possibilities are endless but remember what you post. If you don't remember thats different? But you are a valued poster here so lets just chock this one up as you were drunk maybe! lol

Jaylon Smith pre injury is the truth @ linebacker. Smashmouth barr none. Just my 12 cents

Are we agreed that Myles Jack is a better prospect overall then? Personally, I think Smith is a better athlete than football player. Granted he's still a great prospect based on his measurables, but he's not on the level of Myles Jack imo.

[thieverycorporation]

34 minutes ago, nishadrahman13 said:

Are we agreed that Myles Jack is a better prospect overall then? Personally, I think Smith is a better athlete than football player. Granted he's still a great prospect based on his measurables, but he's not on the level of Myles Jack imo.

Athlete yes but the knee scares me honestly. I do think they both have high ceilings and would serve the team well. But both have issues health wise. I don't know that i could put my draft capital into a player with knee issues at the onset. Gurly proved me wrong so I won't discount him but if my butt was on the line I wouldn't take him at six. We must all remember we must nail this pick with no consequences @ pick one. Perriman left a bad taste in everyones mouth that cares about the overall scheme of the Ravens product wise. I say take him if he checks medically. So I'll digress until further evaluations of his Knee issue is clarified. Smith rings as a passionate player and is all about playing like a Raven in the old mode. Personally I think the hybrid (Jack) is the wave of the future but Smith is the prototypical of what we field.  I see a wrench in the works and it will be out of left field. I also see them (Ravens) checking all but one box need wise. At least those we've been clamoring for. I'm doing my best Al Roker impression lol. A new neck of the woods. lol

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, thieverycorporation said:

I gotta co sign the critique because you did claim you saw much more then your claim now. No one remembers all your post but I distinctly remember you being very high the lukewarm then high. I know the possibilities are endless but remember what you post. If you don't remember thats different? But you are a valued poster here so lets just chock this one up as you were drunk maybe! lol

Jaylon Smith pre injury is the truth @ linebacker. Smashmouth barr none. Just my 12 cents

I've flip flopped a good bit on a few guys. Myles jack, jalen ramsey, Jaylon smith, Ronnie stanley, and vh3 specifically, but at this point I think my opinions are pretty set in stone lol, I just don't like his tape that much for the listed reasons, he just gives up too much ground for my liking. I used to think Myles Jack was the one that had that problem until I did a lot more digging on him and I admitted I was wrong about him, but that's just how I feel about these guys after doing my due dilligence on them. early on in the draft process before I've really dug in the crates on players my opinions are bound to jump around a lot lol

[thieverycorporation]

24 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I've flip flopped a good bit on a few guys. Myles jack, jalen ramsey, Jaylon smith, Ronnie stanley, and vh3 specifically, but at this point I think my opinions are pretty set in stone lol, I just don't like his tape that much for the listed reasons, he just gives up too much ground for my liking. I used to think Myles Jack was the one that had that problem until I did a lot more digging on him and I admitted I was wrong about him, but that's just how I feel about these guys after doing my due dilligence on them. early on in the draft process before I've really dug in the crates on players my opinions are bound to jump around a lot lol

Hey I'm doing the same. But now we need you to nail you picks. In two weeks we will have a board of final projections. Period. The process is the process and our convictions as to who what when why and how come should stand for something. I'm asking all Ravens Fans to invest in the process and nail and post it. It's just for fun. I haven't post a mock because I'm hoping to be crystal clear and have a clear path to how it panned out what i projected what transpired what actually culminated into and cross referencing those on the board and the total equation. Right or wrong it's all good and we all really are not that too far off the mark. 

My first prediction _ Trade back. get 2 and 3 from-TBD

It's a matter of preference.

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by thieverycorporation

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, thieverycorporation said:

Hey I'm doing the same. But now we need you to nail you picks. In two weeks we will have a board of final projections. Period. The process is the process and our convictions as to who what when why and how come should stand for something. I'm asking all Ravens Fans to invest in the process and nail and post it. It's just for fun. I haven't post a mock because I'm hoping to be crystal clear and have a clear path to how it panned out what i projected what transpired what actually culminated into and cross referencing those on the board and the total equation. Right or wrong it's all good and we all really are not that too far off the mark. 

My first prediction _ Trade back. get 2 and 3 from-TBD

It's a matter of preference.

 

 

 

Well man... You're just taking it too serious lmao but i applaud your enthusiasm. 

 

I don't have much rhyme or reason when I post a mock or a board, I'll just get bored and post it based on how I currently feel about it. I could never be a gm because I would immediately regret handing in the envelope and decide I don't like who i just picked lol

[Clmraven]

6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I've flip flopped a good bit on a few guys. Myles jack, jalen ramsey, Jaylon smith, Ronnie stanley, and vh3 specifically, but at this point I think my opinions are pretty set in stone lol, I just don't like his tape that much for the listed reasons, he just gives up too much ground for my liking. I used to think Myles Jack was the one that had that problem until I did a lot more digging on him and I admitted I was wrong about him, but that's just how I feel about these guys after doing my due dilligence on them. early on in the draft process before I've really dug in the crates on players my opinions are bound to jump around a lot lol

Didn't you also say Nkemdiche was gonna be better than Watt? Sorry had to lol.

[rmw10]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I've flip flopped a good bit on a few guys. Myles jack, jalen ramsey, Jaylon smith, Ronnie stanley, and vh3 specifically, but at this point I think my opinions are pretty set in stone lol, I just don't like his tape that much for the listed reasons, he just gives up too much ground for my liking. I used to think Myles Jack was the one that had that problem until I did a lot more digging on him and I admitted I was wrong about him, but that's just how I feel about these guys after doing my due dilligence on them. early on in the draft process before I've really dug in the crates on players my opinions are bound to jump around a lot lol

Flip flopped is an understatement. You've gone from one extreme to the opposite.

[GrimCoconut]

11 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I thought that for a hot minute because I thought of the possibility of him packing on 20 lbs and maintaining his burst. I DO like the kids first step a lot and he has more pass rushing moves than your average traditional linebacker, it was an interesting thought to have your starting OLB in a 34 being able to drop into coverage consistently and make an impact just as often as he rushes. But after some more thought I just didn't think it was realistic, and after more film study I had to wonder if he avoids blockers like the plague because he's small, or if he just doesn't play with a hard nose close to the line, I just think it's the latter. 

 

I see Leonard Floyd as a very similar player but he plays with a lot more fire when he's in traffic, he may be skinny but he's not afraid to mix it up and punch a blocker in the mouth when he needs to, he has a lot of the same skill set and field iq but he has the upper hand in measurables and edge rushing. If we want an undersized 34 OLB who excels in space, I'll take Floyd over Smith, and I may have felt the same even without the injury.

I think Jaylon compared to Von Miller somewhat due to his explosion off the ball and coverage skills. I changed my mind on Smith as a 3-4 OLB because of you and especially others. I think it was PurpleCity I dunno. I know I wanted to see how much he'd weigh and his recovery first, but he could've been similar to Miller. I don't like him as a 4-3 DE but I think he could do Miller's role. I personally didn't think Miller would play 3-4 OLB but he proved me wrong. I thought he was best as a 4-3 SAM.

[GrimCoconut]

9 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I've flip flopped a good bit on a few guys. Myles jack, jalen ramsey, Jaylon smith, Ronnie stanley, and vh3 specifically, but at this point I think my opinions are pretty set in stone lol, I just don't like his tape that much for the listed reasons, he just gives up too much ground for my liking. I used to think Myles Jack was the one that had that problem until I did a lot more digging on him and I admitted I was wrong about him, but that's just how I feel about these guys after doing my due dilligence on them. early on in the draft process before I've really dug in the crates on players my opinions are bound to jump around a lot lol

It's okay to change your opinion. My only issue is you seem to not qualify your changed opinion. I was honestly confused when you said you never liked Smith or whatever because I thought you hyped him up early. I've changed my opinion quite a bit myself, especially on Ramsey. We're all guilty of it if we're honest.

[52520Andrew]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

It's okay to change your opinion. My only issue is you seem to not qualify your changed opinion. I was honestly confused when you said you never liked Smith or whatever because I thought you hyped him up early. I've changed my opinion quite a bit myself, especially on Ramsey. We're all guilty of it if we're honest.

Ramsey is probably the biggest one I have gone back and forth on this year. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, 52520Andrew said:

Ramsey is probably the biggest one I have gone back and forth on this year. 

Same. I think what really changed my view was seeing him as a CB and eliminating my bias against him as a CB. I didn't think he could do it but I realized he's a better CB than safety. When I realized that, I liked him a lot better. I don't like him as much as a safety, honestly. 

[Edgar]

53 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Same. I think what really changed my view was seeing him as a CB and eliminating my bias against him as a CB. I didn't think he could do it but I realized he's a better CB than safety. When I realized that, I liked him a lot better. I don't like him as much as a safety, honestly. 

I am way out there on Ramsey I guess.

if I'm taking a corner as high as he's projected he better be able to shutdown the other teams best receiver and he needs to be able to tackle.

he's going to have to be used in some hybrid fashion and no way should he go that high.

I look at him and see Byron Jones. That's a good thing not a top three thing

 

 

 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

6 hours ago, Clmraven said:

Didn't you also say Nkemdiche was gonna be better than Watt? Sorry had to lol.

Just that he would be the trendsetter for 34DEs. This was also before the window incident brought to light just how stupid the guy is lol

[JoeyFlex5]

4 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

It's okay to change your opinion. My only issue is you seem to not qualify your changed opinion. I was honestly confused when you said you never liked Smith or whatever because I thought you hyped him up early. I've changed my opinion quite a bit myself, especially on Ramsey. We're all guilty of it if we're honest.

Not sure what you mean by qualify but yea I never meant to say "never" although my interest in him as an edge defender for us was pretty short lived lol

[GrimCoconut]

4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Not sure what you mean by qualify but yea I never meant to say "never" although my interest in him as an edge defender for us was pretty short lived lol

Well, I mean you say "I never liked Jaylon Smith" when in reality you did; however, it's just that your opinion changed. Instead of just saying "You know, I once thought highly of him and believed he could be a 3-4 OLB but I don't know what I was thinking there. Upon further review, I think I bit some on the hype and got a bit lost. I once said that he was better than Jack, but I realize now that Jack is better." That kind of stuff. That's qualifying your change of opinion--you're giving qualification to your changed view. I've noticed you do this quite a bit. I don't mind anyone changing their opinion. This is just a forum. I think what confuses me is you will talk up Darian Thompson like he's a top-10 guy and then you'll suddenly stop with no transition. It's hard to follow.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Well, I mean you say "I never liked Jaylon Smith" when in reality you did; however, it's just that your opinion changed. Instead of just saying "You know, I once thought highly of him and believed he could be a 3-4 OLB but I don't know what I was thinking there. Upon further review, I think I bit some on the hype and got a bit lost. I once said that he was better than Jack, but I realize now that Jack is better." That kind of stuff. That's qualifying your change of opinion--you're giving qualification to your changed view. I've noticed you do this quite a bit. I don't mind anyone changing their opinion. This is just a forum. I think what confuses me is you will talk up Darian Thompson like he's a top-10 guy and then you'll suddenly stop with no transition. It's hard to follow.

I still like Thompson I just don't see him in the same light. I still wouldn't really have a problem if we took him in the 2nd but I think he's a SS when I originally thought he would be a FS, he seriously lacks the range to play FS though, it was a concern and then his 4.7 40 time just validated those concerns, I think he could be very good covering TEs and roaming the intermediate. I liked him as our 2nd rounder because of his IQ and instincts in coverage but I didn't realize just how slow he was, he's definitely not my first choice anymore but I still see a place for him If we were to take him. 

 

I'll try to just choose my words more carefully I guess lol