The Joey Bosa thread

[Baltimore RAYvens]

4 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

After seeing Bosa and hearing him talk to various outlets, I just don't feel it. I think he's still very immature and has the potential to self destruct on a dime. He may be talented, but then again he is no JJ Watt nor will he ever reach that level.

I hate when people say things like this about prospects. Watt wasn't quite the prospect when he was drafted at 11. He's refined his game and become what he is. Why can't others do the same?

Also the Watt comparison is just lazy. He reminds me more of Suggs. A guy who doesn't have the best speed, but has great power and can turn the corner real quick and get to the QB after he's read the play

[ellicottraven]

21 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

What exactly has he said or done that makes you feel this way. Obviously not attacking your opinion because it's your right to feel this way. However I'd like to know what you've seen in him because I've watched plenty of his interviews and never once came away thinking he's immature or would self destruct in any way. What did I miss?

To be fair, I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it, because if I could, I would've done ti in my first post. There is something about this kid that rubs me the wrong way. I would have seen past all of that, but then his combine wasn't stellar either. I just think you need to factor in a whole host of factors like him being in trouble in college, his lack of production in his senior year, his idiotic tweets, his lackadaisical demeanor in interviews, a tinge of arrogance in the way he carries himself, and all of this may be overlooked, but then when you couple all of that with his combine performance, something didn't smell right.

But, if we end up drafting him and he proves me wrong, nobody will be happier than me.

Edited March 3, 2016 by ellicottraven

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

To be fair, I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it, because if I could, I would've done ti in my first post. There is something about this kid that rubs me the wrong way. I would have seen past all of that, but then his combine wasn't stellar either. I just think you need to factor in a whole host of factors like him being in trouble in college, his lack of production in his senior year, his idiotic tweets, his lackadaisical demeanor in interviews, a tinge of arrogance in the way he carries himself, and all of this may be overlooked, but then when you couple all of that with his combine performance, something didn't smell right.

But, if we end up drafting him and he proves me wrong, nobody will be happier than me.

He didn't have a bad combine performance at all. He had a lackluster 40 and stellar times everywhere else and if we need Bosa to run 40 yards, I don't care if he does it in 4.6 seconds, I got bad news for ya... 

[Ravensfan23]

7 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

To be fair, I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it, because if I could, I would've done ti in my first post. There is something about this kid that rubs me the wrong way. I would have seen past all of that, but then his combine wasn't stellar either. I just think you need to factor in a whole host of factors like him being in trouble in college, his lack of production in his senior year, his idiotic tweets, his lackadaisical demeanor in interviews, a tinge of arrogance in the way he carries himself, and all of this may be overlooked, but then when you couple all of that with his combine performance, something didn't smell right.

But, if we end up drafting him and he proves me wrong, nobody will be happier than me.

I guess it's just one of those things. I personally didn't expect Bosa to set the combine on fire, that's not his game. So I got exactly what I expected from Bosa, 40 time could have been better but over he did well in my book. 

I think for every concern you raised, it's a flip side to it. Yes he got in trouble in college but the actions he took after that speaks volumes to the kids character imo.  The tweets weren't idiotic imo. The only issue with the tweets is that it could create backlash during the draft process. But on the long list of things a 20 year old kid could do that falls under idiotic, those tweets wouldn't be on my list. I've never really seen arrogance when watching or listening to him. Much like Flacco his demeanor is his demeanor, it shouldn't be viewed negatively because he's a laid back guy by nature. I can't remember one interview I've seen of Bosa where he wasn't praising his teammates or coaches. 

I have no problem with a guy feeling like he's the best. In fact I think you could raise more flags with a guy who doesn't feel like he's the best at what he does. Not saying this is you, but it just seems like people are nitpicking at Bosa to find reasons why this kid isn't or won't continue to be good. 

[Winchester]

On 3/1/2016 at 9:42 PM, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah. You're right. Shoot, old Ray Lewis may have said the same thing when he was young if he had social media then. People need to give people a break here. The guy is only 20-years-old. Yeah, 20. 

 

Yep well said!! And that means he has some filling out his frame to do!! Bosa is going to run a 4.65-4.78 at his pro day when not so tired!! lol. His vertical will be better as well. His frame will fill out to 285 LBs or so with exact same explosion and athleticism!! As a matter of fact he will get a touch more explosive when his frame is filled out. However after his pro day could be picked before ravens pick.

[Radinho84]

On 2. März 2016 at 11:35 PM, Baltimore RAYvens said:

I hate when people say things like this about prospects. Watt wasn't quite the prospect when he was drafted at 11. He's refined his game and become what he is. Why can't others do the same?

Also the Watt comparison is just lazy. He reminds me more of Suggs. A guy who doesn't have the best speed, but has great power and can turn the corner real quick and get to the QB after he's read the play

I also see more of suggs in bosa than anything else. JJ became the player he is by putting everything he has on the table every single day. The guy isn´t just tacking a single minute off.

If bosa is that kind of character has to be proven and everything about this would only be speculation. He has a pro ready frame of course so this is something that speaks for him and his effort. In my eyes he is close to brian cushing coming out of college regarding potential and readiness...

[trevorsteadman]

6 hours ago, Radinho84 said:

I also see more of suggs in bosa than anything else. JJ became the player he is by putting everything he has on the table every single day. The guy isn´t just tacking a single minute off.

If bosa is that kind of character has to be proven and everything about this would only be speculation. He has a pro ready frame of course so this is something that speaks for him and his effort. In my eyes he is close to brian cushing coming out of college regarding potential and readiness...

Finally someone who said what I was thinking... Bosa reminds me a lot of Suggs it's actually scary...

[Ravensfan23]

8 hours ago, Winchester said:

 

Yep well said!! And that means he has some filling out his frame to do!! Bosa is going to run a 4.65-4.78 at his pro day when not so tired!! lol. His vertical will be better as well. His frame will fill out to 285 LBs or so with exact same explosion and athleticism!! As a matter of fact he will get a touch more explosive when his frame is filled out. However after his pro day could be picked before ravens pick.

I don't think he runs at his pro day. I think he just stands on his numbers. I honestly don't see anything Bosa could do in drills to make teams change their minds on him. If they like him but don't feel he suits a 3-4 defense, I don't see anything he can do to prove himself. If the like him but has someone else rated higher, I don't think a faster 40 changes their mind. 

I know this is probably fantasy island on my part, but if I'm Bosa and his people I'm hoping a couple top 5 teams past on me and fall to the Ravens at 6. With the structured pay scale he won't be losing out on a ton of money and he'd be coming to a well run organization with a winning tradition. I'm sure they wanna go as high as possible but I'd rest on my tape and combine numbers if I were Bosa.

[RavensDieHard21]

I realistically think he will end up being a stud because he looks like he loves the game and his production has been great over his collegiate career, despite a dip in sacks in 2015. He is a real problem in the run game and that is a plus, then factor in that he already makes great use of his hands at the point of attack and has the strength to use the bull rush when needed. As far as being nimble enough to drop back and cover, I think he is smart enough and has enough awareness to be in the right places, but will need time to transition to NFL pace. 

Dallas to me is the only team ahead of us that will steal him away. I don't see SD or Jax taking him with Ramsey, Buckner, Jack and Hargreaves there. If Dallas takes Jack instead then I see Bosa in black and purple.

[Edgar]

Is Bosa presumed to play opposite Suggs? Is he then to move inside with Dumervil on the field? rush Suggs from inside and have Bosa on the edge at times?

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, Edgar said:

Is Bosa presumed to play opposite Suggs? Is he then to move inside with Dumervil on the field? rush Suggs from inside and have Bosa on the edge at times?

Bosa looked pretty decent in run defense so I think it's very possible we do just this.

[Clmraven]

18 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Is Bosa presumed to play opposite Suggs? Is he then to move inside with Dumervil on the field? rush Suggs from inside and have Bosa on the edge at times?

I think this is the most logical way to use him, imagine obvious passing downs with Suggs Bosa Doom and Jernigan getting after the QB, I think Bosa could slide to DE on early downs every once in a while and let Z Smith play OLB if we don't resign Upshaw.

[ALPHA]

He's still the best player in the draft, size, speed, power, motor, durability at a position of need. I don't think he falls to us but I will be very happy if he does.

[Edgar]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Bosa looked pretty decent in run defense so I think it's very possible we do just this.

I imagine we will have a rotation but wonder if this would effectively make Brandon Williams more of a two down player. 

[Edgar]

58 minutes ago, Clmraven said:

I think this is the most logical way to use him, imagine obvious passing downs with Suggs Bosa Doom and Jernigan getting after the QB, I think Bosa could slide to DE on early downs every once in a while and let Z Smith play OLB if we don't resign Upshaw.

Wonder if there would be any thought of Carl Davis at DE full time?

 

[GrimCoconut]

40 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I imagine we will have a rotation but wonder if this would effectively make Brandon Williams more of a two down player. 

No. It wouldn't change anything at all with Brandon's role in the current defense because he's come off the field at times in the past. I don't see how Bosa would change anything. 

[ALPHA]

19 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Wonder if there would be any thought of Carl Davis at DE full time?

 

It depends how disruptive he can be, we're going to see a lot more 4 man fronts this season. If we play 4-3 over he would play two gap DE over the TE.

[Clmraven]

1 minute ago, ALPHA said:

It depends how disruptive he can be, we're going to see a lot more 4 man fronts this season. If we play 4-3 over he would play two gap DE over the TE.

I don't think we'd put a 320lb man at DE in a 4-3, I think he'll just be a rotational player at DT if we play more 4-3.

[Edgar]

On March 2, 2016 at 11:01 AM, ellicottraven said:

To be fair, I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it, because if I could, I would've done ti in my first post. There is something about this kid that rubs me the wrong way. I would have seen past all of that, but then his combine wasn't stellar either. I just think you need to factor in a whole host of factors like him being in trouble in college, his lack of production in his senior year, his idiotic tweets, his lackadaisical demeanor in interviews, a tinge of arrogance in the way he carries himself, and all of this may be overlooked, but then when you couple all of that with his combine performance, something didn't smell right.

But, if we end up drafting him and he proves me wrong, nobody will be happier than me.

This is exactly as he strikes me. It is simply an impression.....

[ALPHA]

20 minutes ago, Clmraven said:

I don't think we'd put a 320lb man at DE in a 4-3, I think he'll just be a rotational player at DT if we play more 4-3.

A 4-3 over uses 3-4 personnel. Davis would line up over the TE and force a double team, that opens up a one on one inside and the Sam LB

[Clmraven]

1 minute ago, ALPHA said:

A 4-3 over uses 3-4 personnel. Davis would line up over the TE and force a double team, that opens up a one on one inside and the Sam LB

I still don't think Davis would fit that roll, I think a player like Buckner or even Bosa would be better off. And in this scenario whose playing Sam?

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, Clmraven said:

I still don't think Davis would fit that roll, I think a player like Buckner or even Bosa would be better off. And in this scenario whose playing Sam?

It depends on the pieces, if it's Buckner he gets the single gap matchup with the strongside guard, if it's a 4-3 under, hybrid or 3-4 variants he plays DE, if it's a traditional 4-3 he plays base end. Bosa's best fit would be on either side but preferably sam LB

[ellicottraven]

Is Brent Urban capable of being an able back up to Canty this year? How does he compare to Deforest Buckner? Both are 5 technique ends I think but does taking Buckner improve our team and by how much? This is one of the reasons I think the Ravens surprise us and take either Stanley, VH3 or even an Elliott with their #6 pick, assuming of course that Bosa is taken.

[Clmraven]

1 hour ago, ALPHA said:

It depends on the pieces, if it's Buckner he gets the single gap matchup with the strongside guard, if it's a 4-3 under, hybrid or 3-4 variants he plays DE, if it's a traditional 4-3 he plays base end. Bosa's best fit would be on either side but preferably sam LB

I think if we went Buckner we stay with more 3-4 looks, and I don't see any reason to put Bosa as a Sam if we switch to a 4-3 he's obviously best as a DE, I think going with a 4-3 over could be realistic, but not the way your saying we should configure our personnel.

 

if we were to do it, say we got Bosa, he and Suggs would man the end positions Jernigan at 3t and Williams playing nose, but we don't have someone to play Sam, just because they are often on the LOS doesn't mean they don't have to drop into coverage, I think Leonard Floyd would make a great Sam/situational pass rusher but right now we don't have someone like that.

 

the team that comes to mind when I think of this defense is the 2013 Broncos, they had 2 3-4 DEs who were on the lighter side (285lbs) then a typical 4-3 DE with Phillips a good NT with Knighton and a beast Sam with Miller, Doom could probably match Phillips in the pass game and Suggs Bosa or Buckner could match Malik Jackson/Wolfe's role but we don't have a versatile guy like Miller.

[Edgar]

What is the best game tape example of Bosa winning the edge AND collapsing the pocket? A stretch,I mean.

 

[Edgar]

Bosa puts me in the mind of Paul Kruger  a little(rushing)

[trevorsteadman]

Bosa if he falls to 6 will probably be our pick and I am not upset with it. He is an amazing talent and is getting bashed but I think he could be a 3-4 outside linebacker. He may struggle the first year or so getting accustomed to it but he will be playing with Elvis Dumervil and Terrell Suggs. Also with the whole Terrell Suggs driving with a license situation I am almost waiting for a game or two suspension from the league... It may not happen but with Suggs' achilles and his age I think we plan the start of the season without him regardless and even then I am not sure how much we can rely on him throughout the season anyhow. 

[RavensFan38173]

I don't get why Ravens fans love Bosa so much. He's a really good run defender, but we don't need that. We need a pass rusher, and, no matter what NFL or ESPN say, he isn't. Also, the notion that he can play OLB is absolutely untrue. Guys like Shaq Lawson, Deforest Buckner, and Noah Spence are all better pass rushers. Watch this video: 

 

 

[Clmraven]

3 hours ago, RavensFan38173 said:

I don't get why Ravens fans love Bosa so much. He's a really good run defender, but we don't need that. We need a pass rusher, and, no matter what NFL or ESPN say, he isn't. Also, the notion that he can play OLB is absolutely untrue. Guys like Shaq Lawson, Deforest Buckner, and Noah Spence are all better pass rushers. Watch this video: 

 

 

Can you explain with your own words on why he's not a good pass rusher? (I'm not about to watch a 45min video by some random) I don't like to say someone's opinion is wrong because everyone is entitled to their own... But your opinion seems really wrong.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Clmraven

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, Clmraven said:

Can you explain with your own words on why he's not a good pass rusher? (I'm not about to watch a 45min video by some random) I don't like to say someone's opinion is wrong because everyone is entitled to their own... But your opinion seems really wrong.

Voch lombardi is actually solid analytically but he gets biased at times. He's way too hyped on speedy guys and he clearly favors noah Spence for that reason and hypes him up even saying he's a good run defender and he never had a complaint about him. He thinks low of Bosa and buckner basically because they're not explosive enough for his personal liking. 

 

He did a great job breaking down linebackers of this draft, I think thats where he does his best work, he's good on o linemen too