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sflegend89

Was Harbs winning a SB lucky?

99 posts in this topic

Lucky might be too strong of a word but I believe it was. More so just a benefactor of a strong roster (especially on offense, Torrey, Boldin, prime Rice, healthy Pitta), legendary leadership from Ray, and a strong well-rounded coaching staff (many of which are coaching at a higher position with other teams currently)

 

That's not to say he isn't a competent head coach because he is, that's also not to say that just anybody could've done what he's done during his time in Baltimore. Just that his role in previous years' success has been overblown and he acted more like the glue sealing the team together rather than an active force driving the team forward.

 

I've been an outspoken supporter of Harbs over the years but it feels like as time has gone on and the roster/coaching staff has become thinner that more of his shortcomings have been exposed. I don't think he's a great football mind, I think he's a great team manager. 

 

Harbs isn't going to get fired, but this USC opening maybe a great median for the two sides to part ways without all the drama and bad blood involved with firing a winning HC. I think it may just make it easier on everyone for John to take the job if he get's offered, I've always thought his coaching style was a better fit for college similar to Nick Saban. When I watched Harbs in the rookie camp series he just fit the bill as a potential college coach, I think working with younger players in a more controlled environment is exactly the situation he needs. I'm not opposed to Harbs staying, I just see a great opportunity to part ways without things getting ugly.

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Who can we replace him with? That's all I need to know. Ive been a strong supporter to highly indifferent. I don't see anyone that would be available.... Maybe pagano....

To answer your question btw...no.

Edited by BSHU_Miami
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No. The fact that we've had more winnings seasons than not is not a coincidence. Now if we string up another losing season next year I'll get on this train. But Harbaugh is safe dude.

 

Also we almost made the super bowl last year, and the year before we won it, and his first year here.

 

 

Not a fluke man. Sorry. 

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No.

 

Elaborate, I gave him his credit where it was due but there is no denying the external factors that were the driving force behind winning that SB.

 

1. Ray Lewis Magic - There's no other way to put it, something once in a lifetime went on that postseason from his last dance at M&T, the mile high miracle, the David vs Goliath game in NE, the goal line stand in the SB.. it was like watching a movie.

 

2. Flacco Legendary Performance - 11 TD's 0 INT's, enough said, even with all the Ray Lewis "last ride" going on we don't beat Denver without Flacco playig out of his mind.

 

3. Great Coaching Staff - So many coaches from that squad have been promoted to higher positions with other teams, Teryl Austin did amazing work with the db's and Caldwell provided exactly the type of well balanced attack the offense and Joe need to thrive that we didn't see again until Kubiak.

 

 

I'll stick with my analogy in my OP, Harbaugh was the glue, he was the team manager, Ray and Ed were the leaders, they commanded the locker room. I don't believe he was a driving force behind that SB.

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Harb is the last person I would point finger at cuz he took over the team with losing record and put us in position of contending for SB 6yrs....

Injuries killed us this year and our new acquired coaches aren't every good so it just piled on.....

Unless u cheat but most stable franchise will go through bumps and falls....

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We've had the chance to make the SuperBowl more than once outside of the win. I'd understand this argument more if we were a middling team who made little-to-no noise in the postseason and then randomly came away with the title, which hasn't been the case. Can't agree with this sentiment.

Edited by -Truth-
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absolutely not.   everything our team has achieved showed that great teams knows how to prevail through tough times.   pundits heckled us.  we had an unbelievably tough playoff games from start to finish(colts,broncos, patriots, 9ers).   nothing was easy, but our team got the job done.  

 

harb wasn't 'lucky'   he had half the roster that did not agree with him.  he had a OC that he had to fire.   alot of bad things that could've let a mild HC down south fast.   

Edited by Ravenseconbeast
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Many of you are running with the intention of this thread in the wrong direction, my point is that Harbs isn't a great football mind but he is a very good team manager and I don't mean that as a back handed compliment, it's a valuable skill set as a HC. I just personally feel like he was the glue keeping everything together (which is very important) but not an active orchestrator behind that SB like a Bill Belichick or Sean Payton.

 

I also said I'm not opposed to Harbs staying, I just see a chance for both sides to get a fresh start because the train is off the tracks.

 

I think a better fit wold be someone like Josh McDaniels from NE, say what you wnat about his first gig in Denver but the guy has a tremendous mind for the game and i think he's grown as a coach a lot since then. That's the type of guy who will get hands on with the scheme, that's the type of guy who can help this team evolve with the times. I like Harbs, don't mind him staying at all, just see that the grass might be greener on the other side for both parties if he were to get offered USC.

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absolutely not.   everything our team has achieved showed that great teams knows how to prevail through tough times.   pundits heckled us.  we had an unbelievably tough playoff games from start to finish(colts,broncos, patriots, 9ers).   nothing was easy, but our team got the job done.  

 

harb wasn't 'lucky'   he had half the roster that did not agree with him.  he had a OC that he had to fire.   alot of bad things that could've let a mild HC down south fast.   

 

The Ray Lewis "last ride" and Super Flacco performance was the only thing that got us through those games. How much did Harbs have to do with any of that? I give him his credit for the role he played, but there's a difference between playing a role and being a driving force behind at a SB. Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Pete Carroll, have been a driving force in their SB's for instance. Harbs was along for the ride with the magic of that postseason, the team played on another level because of Ray and Ed. 

 

If Ray doesn't announce his "last ride" I don't think we win that SB, I really don't, so how can you say Harbs was a driving force behind winning it when the biggest difference in winning and losing those playoff games came down to a Ray Lewis speech (which feeds into the Flacco run as well).

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Harb is the last person I would point finger at cuz he took over the team with losing record and put us in position of contending for SB 6yrs....

Injuries killed us this year and our new acquired coaches aren't every good so it just piled on.....

Unless u cheat but most stable franchise will go through bumps and falls....

Ok, I understand your point, but this is a very misleading statement. While true we were 13-3 two years before and the only reason we were losing before he took over is because one of the best in Franchise history at QB got hurt. 

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This isn't a "fire Harbs" or "Harbs is a bad HC" thread, good lord people. Maybe I just did a poor job of explaining my point.

 

Thread Cliffnote: The strongest factors of us winning SB 47 didn't have to do with Harbaugh. If he took the USC job it could benefit both of us, college is more Harbs style, we could nab a guy like McDaniels this offseason who is on the cutting edge of how the game is evolving.

Edited by sflegend89
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Many of you are running with the intention of this thread in the wrong direction, my point is that Harbs isn't a great football mind but he is a very good team manager and I don't mean that as a back handed compliment, it's a valuable skill set as a HC. I just personally feel like he was the glue keeping everything together (which is very important) but not an active orchestrator behind that SB like a Bill Belichick or Sean Payton.

 

I also said I'm not opposed to Harbs staying, I just see a chance for both sides to get a fresh start because the train is off the tracks.

 

I think a better fit wold be someone like Josh McDaniels from NE, say what you wnat about his first gig in Denver but the guy has a tremendous mind for the game and i think he's grown as a coach a lot since then. That's the type of guy who will get hands on with the scheme, that's the type of guy who can help this team evolve with the times. I like Harbs, don't mind him staying at all, just see that the grass might be greener on the other side for both parties if he were to get offered USC.

There'd almost certainly be a give-and-take with the suggestion. I felt that McDaniels was significantly overmatched as a head coach in terms of managing his team. He burned bridges with several players in just over a single season. He essentially suspended Tony Scheffler for making comments to his teammates about his limited usage. In a statement move, he benched his best WR in Brandon Marshall for the last game of the season when they were alive in the playoff hunt. He also exclaimed, "We own you!" at Shaun Phillips prior to a 3-32 shellacking by San Diego. And those were just two of several examples of his chaotic run-ins with an assortment of players and coaches. I wouldn't trust him to maintain a winning culture while we attempt to turn it around, at least not more than John Harbaugh.

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The awkward moment where you try to use a well rounded coaching staff as the reason the Ravens wion, but fail to acknowledge Harbaugh actually chooses the coaching staff...

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I dont want to say it was luck, but he has been gifted some incredibly talented teams, and he had probably the best leader on the field in NFL history, the guy he tried to stifle upon arrival, leading the charge from the altruism perspective.  I think it is almost impossible to say how much of this is Harbaugh, but you cant say he was just along for the ride either. 

 

I have NEVER been a Harbaugh fan and to this day don't like the guy, as a coach or seemingly as a person (although I do admire his ardent commitment to men and women in uniform) I can name 10 other coaches I would rather have right now than him, but only a few have had the success he has had. 

 

I do not for one second think he is the sole reason of our success, I do not find it coincidence that we always need a a fiery guy to get the players to play, because honestly I think harbaugh is probably a coach not many people like. This is all hearsay but all these mutinies and how he keeps failing coordinators and absolving them, while handing out back handed compliments have lead to reports that are not as pushed y the media about players who dislike him. 

 

I do think, however, to say that he has just been along for the ride and has not contributed either is false. I have to begrudgingly admit that he has contributed to our success, but not in ways I dont think other coaches could. Long story short he is not great, he is not terrible, he is not our savior nor our bane, in my opinion that is. 

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Some people really put too much into that "last ride" thing with Ray Lewis. The defense was shaky that entire playoff run except against New England. They gave up a lot of points in the super bowl as well. Had the Ravens lost you could have made the argument the defense really gave the game away. All that aside, Harbs winning the SB was not luck, he used what he had and the team played well enough with some breaks going in their favor to help win a SB. Has everyone forgotten they were nearly in the TWO times before that? Harbs is not the best coach but hardly the worse. This team is very injured and those not injured just are not playing very well. It happens. A lucky superbowl would have been him having terrible seasons over and over and tucked in-between them is a lucky season where they won the SB.

Edited by TSizzle00
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So a team with great players wins a lot of games and a team without great players dont win a lot of games. 

 

Nothing new here.

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There'd almost certainly be a give-and-take with the suggestion. I felt that McDaniels was significantly overmatched as a head coach in terms of managing his team. He burned bridges with several players in just over a single season. He essentially suspended Tony Scheffler for making comments to his teammates about his limited usage. In a statement move, he benched his best WR in Brandon Marshall for the last game of the season when they were alive in the playoff hunt. He also exclaimed, "We own you!" at Shaun Phillips prior to a 3-32 shellacking by San Diego. And those were just two of several examples of his chaotic run-ins with an assortment of players and coaches. I wouldn't trust him to maintain a winning culture while we attempt to turn it around, at least not more than John Harbaugh.

 

McDaniels was also 33 years old and was the youngest HC in NFL history at the time, he was thrust into a position of responsibility/power that he wasn't equipped for at that age and his immaturity showed, he was coaching some players older than him. 

 

I think he's evolved a lot as a coach/person since then and working closely with Belichick more closely as an OC has really groomed him for a HC job now. He will no doubt be a HC after this season. Look at what he's doing up there in NE, that's not all Belichick, McDaniels is on the cutting edge of how the game is evolving and is playing a different game than we are, regardless of personnel.

 

I don't want to turn this into Harbs vs McDaniels, John is still our coach and I stand by him. But if he get's offered USC I'm not going to be crying for him to stay because there is certainly A LOT of untapped potential with someone like a Josh McDaniels.

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McDaniels was also 33 years old and was the youngest HC in NFL history at the time, he was thrust into a position of responsibility/power that he wasn't equipped for at that age and his immaturity showed, he was coaching some players older than him. 

 

I think he's evolved a lot as a coach/person since then and working closely with Belichick more closely as an OC has really groomed him for a HC job now. He will no doubt be a HC after this season. Look at what he's doing up there in NE, that's not all Belichick, McDaniels is on the cutting edge of how the game is evolving and is playing a different game than we are, regardless of personnel.

 

I don't want to turn this into Harbs vs McDaniels, John is still our coach and I stand by him. But if he get's offered USC I'm not going to be crying for him to stay because there is certainly A LOT of untapped potential with someone like a Josh McDaniels.

It's fair to wonder or assume that he's learned from his experiences, but I'm not willing to bank it or bet the farm on the assumption.

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So a team with great players wins a lot of games and a team without great players dont win a lot of games. 

 

Nothing new here.

 

Look at NE or Carolina, they aren't overflowing with talent, they're just getting the MOST out of the players they do have. When you look at Cincy's roster you can see why they're dominating, same with Denver, top to bottom they got studs all over the place. NE isn't beating the brakes off the entire NFL because they're roster is head and shoulders above everyone else's, not by any stretch of the imagination, it's about the scheme, it's about how they use the players they have to work with like a Dion Lewis to get everything they possibly can out of them.

 

We don't maximize player potential, that's a coaching and scheme issue. I'm not saying we would be a top tier team even if we did maximize player potential better, but we damn sure wouldn't be 1-5 (should be 0-6). Injuries and all we should be a middle of the pack team, instead we are bottom 5 in the NFL.

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Lets ask the 49ers about life without their Harbaugh

 

Better than ours with our Harbaugh after they had the biggest mass exodus of key players I have ever seen in a single offseason. Willis (Pro Bowl caliber), Borland (Pro Bowl caliber), Aldon Smith (Pro Bowl caliber), Justin Smith, Chris Culliver, Perrish Cox, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, Michael Crabtree, Stevie Johnson.. oh yeah Jim Harbaugh...am I forgetting anybody?

 

We actually lost to that team today, but nah it's injuries, excuses, excuses, excuses from this coaching staff. I understand injuries have taken their toll, I get it, I'm not asking to be a top tier team, but to not even be middle of the pack with our roster is a flat out joke. We're sitting here acting like it has little to nothing to do with coaching when the Steelers are beating an upper tier team with Landry freakin' Jones at QB.

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Better than ours with our Harbaugh after they had the biggest mass exodus of key players I have ever seen in a single offseason. Willis (Pro Bowl caliber), Borland (Pro Bowl caliber), Aldon Smith (Pro Bowl caliber), Justin Smith, Chris Culliver, Perrish Cox, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, Michael Crabtree, Stevie Johnson.. oh yeah Jim Harbaugh...am I forgetting anybody?

 

We actually lost to that team today, but nah it's injuries, excuses, excuses, excuses from this coaching staff. I understand injuries have taken their toll, I get it, I'm not asking to be a top tier team, but to not even be middle of the pack with our roster is a flat out joke. We're sitting here acting like it has little to nothing to do with coaching when the Steelers are beating an upper tier team with Landry freakin' Jones at QB.

Coaches do make huge difference; JB is best example for Michigan; however, Harbs will be the last person I would put the hammer on right now.  Dean Pees is the person I want to get rid of.......we need a coach with mentality of playing like the Ravens...physical, tough football game....

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No. If anything it was unlucky it didn't happen earlier, with the horrible ending to the AFC 2012 Championship game (not saying that guarantees a Super Bowl title, but we would have had a good chance). 

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