The bad draft myth.

[Guest]

you cant judge the last two drafts just yet, for one, this season isnt even half way over and two, the year prior class is still developing.  A complete two years should be given to a draft class to evaluate

 

Yeah, that's the prevailing wisdom. You gotta give them time, they could be All Pros. 

 

Wagner, Hurst, Urban, Perriman, Mosely, Boyle, Z. Smith, Jernigan, Campanaro, Gilmore....theres others I just can't recall right now I'm so disappointed.

 

To me it's looking more and more that guys we thought very highly of early on like Upshaw and J.Smith played in an environment that elevated their play.  Alone without the supporting cast, they are not producing.

 

We'll see, I'm holding Gilmore on my Fantasy Bench because I believe he will become a go to guy for Flacco, but times have definitely changed.

 

You don't lose two must have divisional games at home without issues.  457 passing yards?

[JEEPercreepermd]

no doubt ozzie has made some clutch short term fixes via free agency in the past, but my point is that strategy is starting to catch up with him. i'll give him the benefit of the doubt due to the injuries, but he could've been more aggressive with talent replacement at certain positions.

the amount of talent obtained compared to lost over the past couple seasons hasnt been nearly enough to stay afloat. the 80/20 philosophy is great but you have to know which position holds the largest constraint relative to the value. i knew from the day kyle arrington and kendrick lewis were signed they would not be the answer. i was surprised our organization was satisfied with our free agency moves going into the season. even up to week 6, it seems they keep putting band aids on the secondary while completely bypassing our pass rush situation.

no doubt the cap was against us but we couldve still make some trades and get a bit more aggressive in the free agent process. we failed miserably with snatching pass rush talent. you cant go into a season with two 30+ year old pass rushers and expect a rookie 4th round pick will be the answer for depth. that was the most important position to add depth but it was simply ignored. we have to start at the line on both sides of the ball before we fix anything else.

Who was available via trade, and at what cost? That must be answered before you can say that he should have traded for a pass rusher.

If it means we have to sacrifice re-singing 3 other players next year AND costs us draft picks, what is the point?

[rmcjacket23]

Here's the problem I have...

 

What, precisely, is the fanbase's expectation for draft picks? How many draft picks per year do you think the franchise should "hit" on, and what kind of players do you think they should be?

 

I hear a lot of references to All-Pro players. Do you guys understand how many actual All-Pro players there are in this league? If the expectation is that every 1st round pick we make is supposed to become an All-Pro, then shouldn't that expectation apply to every team in the league, and thus there should be like 100+ All-Pro players walking around right now in the NFL?

 

Its becoming quite clear to me that, once again, the fanbase's EXPECTATIONS are the real problem here, not necessarily the drafting of players. And I don't even think our drafts have been anything special in the last five years, but then again, I don't expect an All-Pro player to come out of each draft. Frankly, if we get one All-Pro every five years, I'd consider that to be pretty good. 

[FlackAttack]

Who was available via trade, and at what cost? That must be answered before you can say that he should have traded for a pass rusher.

If it means we have to sacrifice re-singing 3 other players next year AND costs us draft picks, what is the point?

 

so far as the magnitude of the trade deals, only insiders know that. but anyone with common sense will tell you that trade deals are there but ozzie does not trade draft picks.. and we can risk a few comp picks for a solid, proven player.

Edited October 16, 2015 by FlackAttack

[JEEPercreepermd]

If the critique is bad drafts in the last five years, why have you gone back seven years to refute the contention?

Looking at the last five years, we have not had stellar drafts. I was hopeful these last two draft years may have turned the corner for us, but the evidence is they have not. Supposedly it was drafting where we separated, but as we let key veterans go in the last five years, we are not replacing their contributions through the draft.

OK let's go back 5 years

Jimmy Smith- Drafted 27th overall-The teams best DB currently

Torrey Smith-Drafted in the 2nd round-Instrumental in getting us a super bowl

Pernell Mcphee-5th round-Developed into a strong pass rusher

Courtney Upshaw- 2nd round-Starter

Osemele -2nd round-Starter

Matt Elam-32nd overall-Jury is still out, though he hasn't performed up to being a 1st round pick, he is still young.

Brandon Williams-3rd round..developing into one of the best D lineman in the league.

Kyle Jusczyk -4th round has done a nice job at FB.

Ricky Wagner-Starting RT. 5the round Overall in 2 seasons has been solid. Still young.

Kaplan Lewis-Moore-A good 6th round find..is an excellent peice of the day line rotation.

CJ Mosley-17th overall- Monster rookie season, not quite as good this year but still has a ton of room to grow..great pickisser

Tommy Jernigan -2nd round..again a dependable Dlineman.

Crockett Gilmore -3rd round..Good pick there.

John Urschel-5th round..has been solid when pressed into service. Great depth.

Campanaro-7th round..Jury is still out, a playmaker when healthy.

Can't speak to this year's draft because they've all played 5 games or fewer..maximum Williams,nick boyle, Carl Davis and Smith are all looking good though.

[arnie_uk]

to me its a myth until the people that are saying it actually come with the stats to back it up.

1 thing i learned on this forum is that majority says a lot of things with nothing to back it up or will keep saying it even when stats and facts say otherwise.

Are you not one of the ones that refuses to blame pees and says it's a personnel issue?

[redrum52]

OK let's go back 5 years

Jimmy Smith- Drafted 27th overall-The teams best DB currently

Torrey Smith-Drafted in the 2nd round-Instrumental in getting us a super bowl

Pernell Mcphee-5th round-Developed into a strong pass rusher

Courtney Upshaw- 2nd round-Starter

Osemele -2nd round-Starter

Matt Elam-32nd overall-Jury is still out, though he hasn't performed up to being a 1st round pick, he is still young.

Brandon Williams-3rd round..developing into one of the best D lineman in the league.

Kyle Jusczyk -4th round has done a nice job at FB.

Ricky Wagner-Starting RT. 5the round Overall in 2 seasons has been solid. Still young.

Kaplan Lewis-Moore-A good 6th round find..is an excellent peice of the day line rotation.

CJ Mosley-17th overall- Monster rookie season, not quite as good this year but still has a ton of room to grow..great pickisser

Tommy Jernigan -2nd round..again a dependable Dlineman.

Crockett Gilmore -3rd round..Good pick there.

John Urschel-5th round..has been solid when pressed into service. Great depth.

Campanaro-7th round..Jury is still out, a playmaker when healthy.

Can't speak to this year's draft because they've all played 5 games or fewer..maximum Williams,nick boyle, Carl Davis and Smith are all looking good though.

People really need to look at the first round of the 13 draft. It SUCKED. The class as a whole just isnt good, as a whole. I'm pretty sure 2 or 3 tackles were taken in the first 10 picks. We found our starting RT in the 5th.

[Tru11]

Are you not one of the ones that refuses to blame pees and says it's a personnel issue?

 

i refuse to blame him for everything.

 

he has part of the blame of course but not everything and certainly not most of the things people accuse him off.

 

people blame him for players missing tackles, cant play press or cant communicate with others.

its a positions coach job to fix those not a DC.

 

people blame for having arrington on the outside without even knowing webb and davis left the game injured and he was the only healthy CB left behind jimmy and walker.

i mean yeah are we now also going to blame him that players got injured and he did not send them back on the field even when to injured to play?

[JoeyFlex5]

ravens have drafted at the back end for 8 years straight, it gets harder and harder to hit on picks when youre picking from 24 and later every single year for nearly a decade, and after all this time, 1 year struggles are going to really highlight those misses. 

 

09 gave us a cb that gave us some very good years, our star pass rusher of our SB team, and michael oher honestly had some solid years when he got to play RT for us, he was instrumental in our run game and when he switched to RT for the super bowl run he kept joe in a clean for all but one game @ denver

 

10 was a disaster that resulted in dennis pitta as our featured security blanket and a huge reason we won a super bowl. cody was a straight up bust, ed dickson had sky high potential but he could never put it all together,  and kindle i still believe wouldve been a perennial double digit guy without the fractured skull. also arthur jones was a dominant defender here for his last 2 years. 

 

11 was a damn good draft class, 2 starters, 1 has been teetering on pro bowl caliber, the other has topped 800 yards receiving and led the league in PI yardage every year i believe, and gave us our offensive identity of "fear the bomb", plus mcphee who we were all sad to see leave as he offered something special as a rotational sack artist. 

 

12 was hit and miss, we got some ok players, upshaw forced a SB fumble and has for the most part been a good player for us, he cant handle a full time role though and lack pass rush ability, he hasnt lived up to his draft status but he has been an im[portant part of this defense. pierce had huge plays in our sb run, and KO could be a top 3 guard in the league in a healthy year. 

 

13 resulted in brandon williams and rick wagner, finding talent that is good enough to be considered top 3 league wide in their positions, in the 3rd and 5th rounds, is impressive. we had some huge misses though that are coming back to bite us now since we blew our top 2 picks on players who dont suit up and wouldnt be contributing even if they could.

 

14 simply looks to be a great draft, first pick in contention for DROY, the ILB of our future, struggles in coverage but is still young, jernigan who is nothing short of dominant when healthy, terrence brooks is yet to be seen but my hopes arent high, gillmore is a stud, urban is yet to be seen, LT is meh, urschel is our future at either C or G. great draft. 

 

finding one starter, and one contributor per draft equates a successful draft, we have found multiple starters and multiple rotation guys is nearly every draft in the harbaugh era. a missed top pick hurts, but it doesnt equate to a bad draft, we are still finding strong assets throughout each draft. 2010 and 2013 is coming back to haunt us right now though because none of those players besides williams and wagner and juice are even suiting up for us. a down season is to be expected at some point and a year or 2 of drafting high will get us back playing at a higher level than i think we ever have.

[Winchester]

This what I see :

 

2015 : Unknown but the only standout has been Nick Boyle and sometimes Davis when he doesn't take plays off

 

2014 : Mosley looked great rookie year, this year just average. Jeringan plays hard when he wants to, Gilmore looks good.

 

2013: Brandon Williams is the stud, Juice is ok and Wagner has looked terrible this year.

 

2012: KO is the only worthwhile mention

 

2011: Jimmy Smith looked good until this year, Torrey was good while here.

 

2010: Disaster beyond Arthur Jones and Pitta

 

2009: Oher was decent, Kruger played well his final year, Webb was good till hurt.

 

2008: Flacco and Rice were tops

Good post bro!! However we can not applaud mediocrity or a touch below average drafting. I say oz has been below average since 2010 because his overall amount of starters may be about average but most teams draft at least one game changing all pro building blocks in 7 years of drafting. And you really have to take into consideration the massive amount of impact players Ozzie shunned for the busts and mediocre role players. It is quite an impressive list of players available. Then his drafting has been way to conservative!! Ozzie has a propensity to hoard draft picks and not trade up when his scouts advise. Deandre Hopkins would look really good right now!! As a matter of fact we would likely be 3-2 or better right now. But Ozzie did not want to part with the draft pick to move up several spots. My point is this, role players come a dime a dozen. Cheap in free agency, or cut from other teams strong at that particular position. All pro building blocks are harder to come by. Ozzie has been waaaay to conservative and when he does trade up it has been round2 for busts. Yes I am going out on a limb and calling max a bust or mediocre at best!! He will have to reshape his flabby bod and work very hard on his craft to be a legit weapon. Oz has not even played the drafts strengths. 2014 Robinson should have been the pick. 2015 Lockett should have been the pick over max. The best of a bad TE class is still a bad TE. In a stouter division and in the 2010 class Max would have been a mid to late round pick.

This year's draft class is looking atrocious. Carl Davis seems to be the best pick but he was not the best DT on the board.

[rmcjacket23]

Good post bro!! However we can not applaud mediocrity or a touch below average drafting. I say oz has been below average since 2010 because his overall amount of starters may be about average but most teams draft at least one game changing all pro building blocks in 7 years of drafting. And you really have to take into consideration the massive amount of impact players Ozzie shunned for the busts and mediocre role players. It is quite an impressive list of players available. Then his drafting has been way to conservative!! Ozzie has a propensity to hoard draft picks and not trade up when his scouts advise. Deandre Hopkins would look really good right now!! As a matter of fact we would likely be 3-2 or better right now. But Ozzie did not want to part with the draft pick to move up several spots. My point is this, role players come a dime a dozen. Cheap in free agency, or cut from other teams strong at that particular position. All pro building blocks are harder to come by. Ozzie has been waaaay to conservative and when he does trade up it has been round2 for busts. Yes I am going out on a limb and calling max a bust or mediocre at best!! He will have to reshape his flabby bod and work very hard on his craft to be a legit weapon. Oz has not even played the drafts strengths. 2014 Robinson should have been the pick. 2015 Lockett should have been the pick over max. The best of a bad TE class is still a bad TE. In a stouter division and in the 2010 class Max would have been a mid to late round pick.

This year's draft class is looking atrocious. Carl Davis seems to be the best pick but he was not the best DT on the board.

Too much hindsight for my taste. Its a lazy approach.

[Tenacious Faulker]

mosley is still one of the better ilbs in the league and i still love this pick in 2014. sure hes been struggling with pass coverage but it has mostly to do with the overall defense failing with the schemes, execution, pass rush, etc. hes just one man. a great comparison is luke kuechly. dude knows where to be and has a motor but when the whole defense struggles, youll see him struggle as well in coverage. i will admit tho, mosely got JUKED by andy dalton a couple weeks ago.

 

if we decide to enter a massive rebuilding phase after this season, mosley is one of the few players im keeping.

Yeah, been seeing a lot of Mosely haters this year and it drives me nuts.  The MLBs have been having to do it all and are spread thin.  It's not so much that he's missing tackles (like Elam) as he's a step or two behind making a play.  Why is that?  Pass rush injuries and the seondary has been playing bush league football and the MLBs are forced to drop back in coverage during screens and play action after the play starts.  He asnd Daryl Smith literally have to make a 50/50 call then readjust when the QB decides to throw or the second they see the fake hand-off.  So of course his tackle counts will be down as QBs try to through the ball where they are not.  Daryl Smith however, has missed some tackles but that's a separate conversation.

 

This is Mosely's 2nd year and is being asked to do it all without much support up front (without Suggs/Dume) and to do the DB's job for them.  He has 2 sacks and is on par for 11-12 pass defense.  On top of that a few fans have called him to the carpet for poor leadership skill as if he's sudden is supposed to be Ray Lewis in his second season when Ray Lewis himself wasn't the "Ray Lewis" we think of until about 2000.

 

Also I'd add Za'Darius Smith to the 2015 role call for draft picks that work out.  He too has 2 sacks on the season in limited snaps.  That might improve now with our pass rusher corps needing all hands on deck.  Dume returned to practice today, but might need someone like Z to spell him more this week.

[Tenacious Faulker]

Overall Ozzie has usually found 2 gems in each draft that are of use.  2010 was his worst that I can recall, but we didn't really seem to suffer for it.  I'm sure though someone might look back on the picks Ozzie traded away in the first round and can insert some other player that could've taken that made it to the pro bowl, but that's revisionist history and N if L.  The reality is that there aren't many teams better at drafting overall and most tend to be better at some postions than others. 

 

The issue as I see it now is not so much the draft picks, but the free agent pick-ups that have just fallen flat.  If you think our team wins because of 2 standout rookies each season then you have another thing coming.  The free agents we've signed in the past 3 seasons are mostly desperation move - mid-season replacement players aka the bottom of the barrel. 

 

The fact they we seem to be in this mess each year now seems like two reasons - conditioning and salary cap.  Our salary cap is getting out of hand and we have like $7-10M wrapped up in personnel that is no longer on the team.  That number might not get much better in 2016 especially when Joe's salry is doubled.   So I get Ozzie and DeCosta trying to get more for less" and valuing his draft picks, but the low to mid-level talent that they're trying to cultivate hasn't panned out since 2012. 

 

In any event players need to be protected from the rigors of the season and conditionin is paramount to prevent injuries.  From 2012 to 2014 the Ravens have been ranked the 3rd healthiest team, but our injuries seemed to be concentrated generally by position.  This year we've had 26% of the 53-man roster go on IR so far.  Therefore, they may need to do better with their conditioning.  I'm not sure if the conditioning coach has failed or that Harbaugh as slacked off of that aspect somewhat, but it has to get better.  Three out of our four last seasons worth of injury bugs truncating our post season has to stop.

[Winchester]

Overall Ozzie has usually found 2 gems in each draft that are of use.  2010 was his worst that I can recall, but we didn't really seem to suffer for it.  I'm sure though someone might look back on the picks Ozzie traded away in the first round and can insert some other player that could've taken that made it to the pro bowl, but that's revisionist history and N if L.  The reality is that there aren't many teams better at drafting overall and most tend to be better at some postions than others. 

 

The issue as I see it now is not so much the draft picks, but the free agent pick-ups that have just fallen flat.  If you think our team wins because of 2 standout rookies each season then you have another thing coming.  The free agents we've signed in the past 3 seasons are mostly desperation move - mid-season replacement players aka the bottom of the barrel. 

 

The fact they we seem to be in this mess each year now seems like two reasons - conditioning and salary cap.  Our salary cap is getting out of hand and we have like $7-10M wrapped up in personnel that is no longer on the team.  That number might not get much better in 2016 especially when Joe's salry is doubled.   So I get Ozzie and DeCosta trying to get more for less" and valuing his draft picks, but the low to mid-level talent that they're trying to cultivate hasn't panned out since 2012. 

 

In any event players need to be protected from the rigors of the season and conditionin is paramount to prevent injuries.  From 2012 to 2014 the Ravens have been ranked the 3rd healthiest team, but our injuries seemed to be concentrated generally by position.  This year we've had 26% of the 53-man roster go on IR so far.  Therefore, they may need to do better with their conditioning.  I'm not sure if the conditioning coach has failed or that Harbaugh as slacked off of that aspect somewhat, but it has to get better.  Three out of our four last seasons worth of injury bugs truncating our post season has to stop.

Players of use are not gems!! Most of the starters drafted that are "of use" that you label successful draft picks is the reason they are 1-4. Championship teams draft impact players!! Oz has done very little of that lately!!

[rmcjacket23]

Players of use are not gems!! Most of the starters drafted that are "of use" that you label successful draft picks is the reason they are 1-4. Championship teams draft impact players!! Oz has done very little of that lately!!

Most teams only have a handful of "gems". You'd be hard pressed to find more than five on most teams. 

 

This team has about that many. The "gems" aren't the problem...

[The Raven]

Players of use are not gems!! Most of the starters drafted that are "of use" that you label successful draft picks is the reason they are 1-4. Championship teams draft impact players!! Oz has done very little of that lately!!

 

Rick Wagner, Carl Davis, Juice, Brandon Williams, Jimmy, Kelechi, Crockett Gillmore, CJ Mosley, Tim Jernigan, and Zadarius Smith have all been impact players thus far in their careers, whether or not you see that.

[The Raven]

Most teams only have a handful of "gems". You'd be hard pressed to find more than five on most teams. 

 

This team has about that many. The "gems" aren't the problem...

 

This too.

[Cville-Raven]

Look at the long term aspect. Jigg was great his rookie year, he's had a down sophomore year but that doesn't mean he'll be bad. I think he'll be great for us. 

I think the injury he suffered in the pre season set him back a bit. I still think he'll be a beast for us.

[donkeyking64]

Eh, Ozzie has done well in free agency too. Usually finding solid, productive players on the cheap.

Carey Redding, Trevor Pryce, Willie Anderson, TJ Houshmanzadeh was a decent 1 year rental, Derrick Mason,

My original post was that we've gotten production out of every draft, some more than others, but this seasons record has nothing to do with Ozzie not drafting well.

The Ravens were handcuffed this year by the cap which happens. If nobody had been injured..Suggs,Perriman,Pitta,Gilmore,Dumervil,Webb, Davis, Monroe. .this team is probably 4-1 right now.

This is the 2007 season all over. Good core of talent, too many injuries to overcome.

This season's record has to do with the fact that we went in to 2015 thinking that a 36 year old receiver and a 1st round rookie would be the best bet for the passing game. To supplement that we picked a 20 year old TE - one who I never really understood what all the hype was about, thinking that he'd be a huge part of the offense. Mel Kiper even went on to say that he could be 2015 OROY.

 

No disrespect to Williams, but the kid doesn't even look like a TE. Nick Boyle flipping looks like a TE. A TE should be a big rig. Doesn't matter what kind of speed he's got, but he should look like he spent all his college free time in the weight room. Especially if he comes from the Big 10 where there's nothing but farm boys. Max may develop over this year and next, but what was the hype to take a 20 yr old who at some point might be asked to block a James Harrison or a Bud Dupree....(notice I said might)

 

Not saying that the free agent pool at WR and TE was so great this year for the right price, but I would not have been disappointed if Ravens did end up signing Mike Crabtree. No he wouldn't have been the answer, but putting faith in the 36 yr old and 2 young 20 somethings is a huge part of the problem.

[Guest Omerta]

Players of use are not gems!! Most of the starters drafted that are "of use" that you label successful draft picks is the reason they are 1-4. Championship teams draft impact players!! Oz has done very little of that lately!!

I would like to know what your idea of a gem is. Is a gem anybody only drafted after round 3 or 4 ? I think that can go a long way in either floating your point or dismantling it. 

[HomeoftheBRAVENS]

I don't see why so many people think the 2010 draft was so bad just because the first two picks were bust.We got Pitta,Jones and Dickson that year.That's a great haul.That's two above average starters and a competent backup who played like a starter for one year.If Pitta was taken in the first,Jones in the second and Dickson in the third(which I think he was),then you guys would be saying we did well that year.

[donkeyking64]

Rick Wagner, Carl Davis, Juice, Brandon Williams, Jimmy, Kelechi, Crockett Gillmore, CJ Mosley, Tim Jernigan, and Zadarius Smith have all been impact players thus far in their careers, whether or not you see that.

I didn't feel that going into the season there was anything special about this defense. One guy not on that list is Brent Urban. Perhaps he can bring some ferocity to the pass rush....? Maybe? We haven't seen him play. This team is full of potential stars and just missing pieces and it's hard to say what those pieces are. It's not a draft issue at all.

 

To address the GOOD DRAFTING/BAD DRAFTING question - whoever has time should do an analysis on how the teams that are picking in the Top 10 are performing. Here some usual suspects

• Washington Football team
• Jax Jags
• Brownies
• Raiders
• New York Jets
• Maybe St Louis?

I agree we need top quality talent at some point, but these teams are consistently getting top quality talent. They also have a revolving door at GM and Head Coach. That's part of the formula. But ask these teams how picking in the top 10 consistently has worked out for them

 

Mediocre teams don't have the constant revolving door at Head Coach and GM but they stay mediocre

• G-men
• Texans???
• Buffalo Bills???
• Phins

For usual playoff suspects like the Packers, Ravens, Steelers, Bengals, Seahawks, Pats, Colts, their saving grace or opportunity to get a bonafide stud that plays in a good football environment (great head coach, front offic, franchise QB)...their saving grace is to have a bad season or a bunch of injuries that puts them at .500 or below! Then they can bounce back the next 5-6 years.

 

But the usual playoff suspects are the teams that work through their lineups with backups in the playoffs. Case in point: I still don't know the corner that won the game for the Pats in the Superbowl....however, further case in point: i don't really know the full name of the receiver that he punked to win the ball.

[donkeyking64]

Last thing...

 

First was that we put too much faith in the pieces we had for the season and thought the plan was sufficient, 2nd is that we need some time to get a bonafide stud. If you don't get a bonafide stud you need someone to "drop" to you because of "character concerns".....

 

Last thing - when your team is playing like worldbeaters, people run in to hire your coaches away. It's that simple. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and Joe Flacco to some extent have gotten a lot of guys head coaching jobs - Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan, Chuck Pagano, Jim Caldwell, Gary Kubiak.

 

Granted the last two were head coaches and it was only a matter of time before they were going to get head coaching gigs again BUT the point is that when you are doing well, your coordinators and asstants get the call somewhere else. And those guys then take some assistants with them. That's another function of winning that has been affecting this team - whether by a lot or a little, it has an effect.

 

Something with this lineup is really off, but I think it has less to do with the players drafted. Certainly there are some personnel issues, and they fell in love with players that they shouldn't have fallen in love with but that happens

[donkeyking64]

OK let's go back 5 years

Jimmy Smith- Drafted 27th overall-The teams best DB currently

Torrey Smith-Drafted in the 2nd round-Instrumental in getting us a super bowl

Pernell Mcphee-5th round-Developed into a strong pass rusher

Courtney Upshaw- 2nd round-Starter

Osemele -2nd round-Starter

Matt Elam-32nd overall-Jury is still out, though he hasn't performed up to being a 1st round pick, he is still young.

Brandon Williams-3rd round..developing into one of the best D lineman in the league.

Kyle Jusczyk -4th round has done a nice job at FB.

Ricky Wagner-Starting RT. 5the round Overall in 2 seasons has been solid. Still young.

Kaplan Lewis-Moore-A good 6th round find..is an excellent peice of the day line rotation.

CJ Mosley-17th overall- Monster rookie season, not quite as good this year but still has a ton of room to grow..great pickisser

Tommy Jernigan -2nd round..again a dependable Dlineman.

Crockett Gilmore -3rd round..Good pick there.

John Urschel-5th round..has been solid when pressed into service. Great depth.

Campanaro-7th round..Jury is still out, a playmaker when healthy.

Can't speak to this year's draft because they've all played 5 games or fewer..maximum Williams,nick boyle, Carl Davis and Smith are all looking good though.

Two things here

1 - he hasn't been very good. One of the players that I think they shouldn't have fallen in love with (worthwhile noting that a lot of people on these boards were gushing over that pick....so much to the extent that they were monitoring Steelers forums and posting how Steelers fans were unhappy because the Cowboys skipped Elam and the Ravens got him)

2 - it's important to note that the Ravens knew they would address one of the safety positions through the draft. I don't think any of the hyped up safeties from that class are performing at a high level.

 

That's something else that I haven't seen in this forum topic - people aren't saying who they thought the Ravens should have picked instead. Just simply saying Ozzie is drafting well.

 

If you didn't pick a WR in the 2014 class, good luck finding your guy in 2015. Some year's the guys at the position are all stellar and other years you're better looking the other way if you can't get #1 or #2. But for the folks that are saying the Ravens haven't drafted well, who are they saying would have been the better alternatives?

[cobrajet]

Keep in mind that some of the decent players we traded, let walk in free agency, or cut for cap reasons - more often than not, did not pan out as well for the new teams they joined or at least did not quite live up to the huge paydays that they received. So maybe Ozzie deserves a little credit for that.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Yeah, that's the prevailing wisdom. You gotta give them time, they could be All Pros.

Wagner, Hurst, Urban, Perriman, Mosely, Boyle, Z. Smith, Jernigan, Campanaro, Gilmore....theres others I just can't recall right now I'm so disappointed.

To me it's looking more and more that guys we thought very highly of early on like Upshaw and J.Smith played in an environment that elevated their play. Alone without the supporting cast, they are not producing.

We'll see, I'm holding Gilmore on my Fantasy Bench because I believe he will become a go to guy for Flacco, but times have definitely changed.

You don't lose two must have divisional games at home without issues. 457 passing yards?

Webb, Arrington, Melvin and Davis went down in the Browns game. Jimmy was playing alongside my little sister and here friends at CB.

At so many positions we're currently fielding 2nd or 3rd string players or worse.. It's unfair to judge the guys on the field so far. The other team can totally focus on our key players knowing that everyone else around them isn't NFL level talent, or hasn't developed to that yet.

When the larger sample size says guys like Jimmy Smith, CJ Mosley, Jernigan, Williams, Wagner, Juice, etc... Are very good to great young players - I side with that over some down play in a season where we've been so devastated by injuries that more than half the current starters either weren't on the team to begin the season or were 3rd or worse on the depth chart.

Ozzie is still a top drafter and talent evaluator. This season is an anomaly due to injuries. With the amount of constant turnover we face the fact that we've won a Super Bowl and been consistent contenders speaks to his ability to replace talent through the draft.

If he wasn't still getting it done, we wouldn't be competitive. If his drafts weren't good, we wouldn't be losing 2-3 key young players every year in FA bc their play has priced them out of our team.

Clearly the rest of the league thinks were still aces in the draft bc they continue to build their teams by picking up our guys coming off a rookie deals since they can't get the young talent themselves in the draft.

This whole idea is silly.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

The problem I have with the whole "Ozzie's been poor in the draft" logic is that it lacks context. In order to determine that he's been poor, you'd have to compare it to something...

 

So what are we comparing his recent draft picks too? If we are doing what we are supposed to be doing, and comparing his picks to the other 31 teams in the league, then if you really sat down and put them side by side, you'd see Ozzie has done pretty well. In particular, when compared to teams that have been drafting at similar positions in the draft, since its a lot easier to get a high quality player picking in the top 5 than it is picking in the bottom five.

 

If we are comparing Ozzie to his previous draft history from 10+ year ago, then no, he probably hasn't been as good. But again, league-wide, it appears the league hasn't been as great either, which is more of a product of the type of players available to be drafted.

 

The biggest myth, by far, is that Ozzie "hits" on like 70-80% of his draft picks. That's never been true in the history of this franchise or any franchise for that matter. In a typical draft, you're taking roughly 7-8 players, depending on different factors. The elite of the elite teams will get maybe 1-2 starters out of that group, and a solid role player or two, and that's on a good year. For the best of the best teams drafting (and you can research this and see for yourself), a good 50% of the players they draft will never go above respectable backup level in their career, and a good 20-25% won't even make it past ST player and annually fighting for a roster spot and eventually losing it to a younger guy.

There should be other comparisons. Like:

How does Ozzie draft compared to Division rivals? Bungles and Squeelers

How does Ozzie manage the Cap vs Division Rivals?

How does Ozzie do keeping home grown Ravens?

How does Ozzie do evaluating talent compared to Division Rivals?

We have all heard of the Oriole way. When we had Ray and Ed here, we had the Raven way. Now that we have been giving up quality home grown pieces like McPhee, we have been bringing in retreads off the scrap pile that have no clue what the Raven way is. Or is it the DC Philosophy?

[Winchester]

Rick Wagner, Carl Davis, Juice, Brandon Williams, Jimmy, Kelechi, Crockett Gillmore, CJ Mosley, Tim Jernigan, and Zadarius Smith have all been impact players thus far in their careers, whether or not you see that.

By your definition over half the league are gems!! Jimmy is eratic,zadarius is not a gem,jernigan has struggled this yr without ngata,Gilmore is about average,Carl davis is a typical run stuffer,kelechi is a gem, Mosley is a gem and wagner is struggling this year. A gem is top10-15 at your position depending on your position. Most of those players are midle of the pack.

[52liveforever]

I don't think he has done too shabby honestly

 

 

2008

1. Joe Flacco- arguably the best QB in the draft. Depends on who you ask between him and Ryan.

2. Ray Rice- Arguably the 3rd best RB taken and was the 7th Rb taken.

3. Zibby- Decoud was the only Safety I would have picked over him and zibby was the fourth taken.

 

Also Haruki in the 6th wasn't bad. So he missed after the 3rd round where the talent pool is limited so I would say good draft.

 

2009

1. Michael Oher- Oher wasn't terrible. I will say there were better guys picked up after so its not a fail but not a success

2. Kruger- He was the best player at this position at this point in the draft and better than many picked before him. So good pick here especially since at this time Suggs was our only pass rusher and it was a need.

3. Webby- 1 of very few hits in a draft with a lot of CB's coming off of the board.

6. Cedric Peerman went on to have a pretty decent career for a 6th rd pick. Although RB was already pretty full and guys like captain munnerlyn and Edelman were still on the board kinda makes it hurt a little. 

 

2010

Worst draft he has had. Although the kindle fiasco just couldn't be predicted. He was a boss in college so its one of those who knows what could have been. Cool we got Pitta, but we traded back and missed out on Gronk and we drafted ed Dickson over Jimmy Graham. So I have nothing good to say except Art Jones.

 

2011(possibly best draft)

1. Jimmy- probably the third best CB in the draft.

2. Torrey- 4th best WR and 5th taken. I'll take it

5. McPhee- huge steal, should've paid the man but oh well 

6. Anybody see what he is doing in buffalo? Just because we never needed the insurance doesn't mean it wasn't some of the bang for your buck when it came to a back up QB. Look at what we are paying Schaub. He saved us money and I think this is an example of something some people don't realize the value of.

 

2012

Upshaw- 2nd best OLB taken in this draft behind Hightower and I would say they are pretty dead even. he was the the 4th taken. we had lost JJ so this was needed and he delivered. Having Kruger as the pass rusher and Courtney as the edge guy was a good and cheap combo.

Osemele- Best guard in the draft.

 

2013 very underrated due to this Elam, Brown picks

3. Brandon Williams needs no introduction. He's a monster

4. Juice- he is finally getting a chance to make plays this year and doing a really good job. However our badd D is overshadowing anything good right now.

5. Rick Wagner- don't understand the hate on him this year. He's played well I have though.

6. KLM- for a 6th rounder and the cap hit I don't hate what ive seen. just the injuries.

6. Jensen- His time is coming. I think he will supplant Zuttah in a couple of years. He was just so young coming out.

 

2014

1. CJ Mosley- not only the best of the draft he is one of the best in the league. He gets torn up in coverage, but that is a scheming deficiency by Pees. Yes, he still needs to get better in that aspect.

2. Timmy Jernigan- He's not where we thought he'd be after his flashes last year. He still has the flashes though so I'd say it is still a really good pick and his best is to come.

3. Brooks- Jury is still out. He's played great, average and terrible so he needs a little more time.

4. Gilmore is a boss.

4. Urban we will see

4. LT needs to stop getting hurt

5. Urschel - killer pick

7. Camp needs to stop getting hurt

 

2015

just so far Maxx and boyle lead all rookie tight ends in receptions and Maxx leads in yards as well.

Carl Davis is looking very good for a rookie on the DL.

[curtis0360]

CJ mosely brandon williams Torrey smith, joe flacco, ray rice, Courtney upshaw, Crockett Gillmore, Maxx williams, nick boyle, etc etc etc. The only thing i knock ozzie for is the free safety position other than that. I dont knock him at all for the other draft picks