Cut, Trade, or Re-sign

[GrimCoconut]

Hurt. He's been out since week 6.

I figured that has to be it but I remembered those rumors about him possibly getting traded a while back and the deadline is approaching.

[redlobster]

Jets are desperate for a qb. I'd float matt schaub to them and get any kind of pick out of him

[GrimCoconut]

Speaking of Schaub, anyone think he looked pissed at the end of the game? I was wondering what was up with that guy's facial expression because he looked almost mad we won. It was bizarre. 

[rmcjacket23]

Nobody ever said getting an exclusive window for signing him would automatically mean we'd get him, that's obvious. But it greatly increases the chances. Theres a difference between determining a player's worth and getting caught in a bidding war, signing a player outright without other suitors always results in a lower contract, that isn't to say it'd be cheap, just cheaper.

Who knows Weddle's perspective? there are plenty of cases where players opt not to test the waters to resign with a certain team. Getting them in house and comfortable would give an advantage. Some players are not hawking for the biggest contract possible.

Who knew both scenario's cost money, you blew my mind with that one...of course both cost money, but one costs significantly less money and could easily make up for a lost draft pick if he performs on a high level like this particular player does consistently.To get him we'd have to give up at most a second rounder, and even that is doubtful, if the Chargers think trying to re-sign him is a lost cause. Losing a pick, even with Ozzie, isn't the worst thing in the world by along shot. And there are scenarios in which a player in a trade hinges on being signed to a new contract, happens quite a bit - Chargers sign him to a long term contract then trade him (and he knows he getting shipped out once the new contract is negotiated). No new contract, no trade.

...and pertaining to the bolded part - you could say that about almost any player that is set to hit free agency but clearly considering most big name players will never see the market at all, it's just not that simple.

 

And as I said before, I am not advocating we trade for Weddle, in fact I really don't want it to happen (or think it'll ever happen, we just don't trade for big name players), but the rationale is clearly there

1.These things contradict each other though. If you are saying that nobody can possible know Weddle's perspective (although its not really that difficult to understand what he wants), then how can you definitively say that trading for him is a cheaper from a money perspective? Simply put, you can't, unless you know precisely what Weddle wants.

 

I already laid out a perfectly reasonable scenario where trading for him actually costs MORE (or at least as much) monetarily than signing him in FA. Its far from a given that him signing a long term deal with anybody means that team got him at a discounted rate. Frankly, it would actually be impossible to know that, because the only way to actually know whether you overpaid for somebody or not in terms of what the market would give him is to allow somebody to actually become a FA and find out. Other than that, you'll never definitively know whether you over or underpaid for a player.

 

2. This isn't the NBA. I can't recall one occurrence in NFL history of a sign-and-trade occurring (where a team signs a player then immediately trades them), because there's really no realistic reason to do it. It doesn't accomplish anything from either side.

[DomMcRaven]

Speaking of Schaub, anyone think he looked pissed at the end of the game? I was wondering what was up with that guy's facial expression because he looked almost mad we won. It was bizarre. 

Well it's like you said: he's cursing our team with these losses lol. He hates to see his "power" not working anymore lol. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Speaking of Schaub, anyone think he looked pissed at the end of the game? I was wondering what was up with that guy's facial expression because he looked almost mad we won. It was bizarre.

"damnit. The Flacco haters told me I would eventually be getting love like Tyrod did.. WHY IS THERE NO "I want Matt Schaub"? Thread"

- Matt Schaub

- Micheal Scott

[Ulawun]

Use another high round draft pick on a skill position. We need to rebuild the future on both ends, I wouldn't be surprised if Flacco doesn't raise some hell about getting him starter level receivers at the very least. Leaving SSS out of the picture right now, there's not many receivers we can believe in to really produce consistently. Grab another stud WR back-to-back years and give us some dangerous weapons. We can all agree our season would be alot different if we had Boldin and Torrey, right?

[rmcjacket23]

Use another high round draft pick on a skill position. We need to rebuild the future on both ends, I wouldn't be surprised if Flacco doesn't raise some hell about getting him starter level receivers at the very least. Leaving SSS out of the picture right now, there's not many receivers we can believe in to really produce consistently. Grab another stud WR back-to-back years and give us some dangerous weapons. We can all agree our season would be alot different if we had Boldin and Torrey, right?

Different? Yes. 

 

A lot different? No. I don't think we'd be playoff contenders.

[redlobster]

Rumor is the seahawks are desperate for O-line help and are willing to trade WR chris Mathews along with other things (draft picks implied).

 

I don't think Chris Mathews is worth anything but a late round flier but its not like baltimore doesn't need WR help

Edited November 2, 2015 by redlobster

[rmcjacket23]

Rumor is the seahawks are desperate for O-line help and are willing to trade WR chris Mathews along with other things (draft picks implied).

 

I don't think Chris Mathews is worth anything but a late round flier but its not like baltimore doesn't need WR help

I doubt he's an upgrade over anything we have. 

 

To me, he's David Tyrell.

[redlobster]

I doubt he's an upgrade over anything we have. 

 

To me, he's David Tyrell.

Looked good last year in the superbowl.

 

4 catches 109 yards and 1 td.

 

and I know you had to laugh when saying he's probably not an upgrade over what the ravens have?

 

Jeremy Butler?

Marlon Brown?

 

I'm not saying he is a future pro-bowler but he can't be worse than some of the scrubs they run out there.

Edited November 2, 2015 by redlobster

[rmcjacket23]

Looked good last year in the superbowl.

 

4 catches 109 yards and 1 td.

 

and I know you had to laugh when saying he's probably not an upgrade over what the ravens have?

 

Jeremy Butler?

Marlon Brown?

 

I'm not saying he is a future pro-bowler but he can't be worse than some of the scrubs they run out there.

Hence my David Tyree reference. 

 

Looked good in the SB, nobody heard of him before or after that. 

 

Sure, he can't be worse. But I'm not sure he can be better either, so then what are we really accomplishing? Are we now in the business of bringing in guys who simply "can't be worse"? Can't be worse, to me, means "the same".

[Drew P]

Rumor is the seahawks are desperate for O-line help and are willing to trade WR chris Mathews along with other things (draft picks implied).

 

I don't think Chris Mathews is worth anything but a late round flier but its not like baltimore doesn't need WR help

 

The Ravens are desperate for O line help to

[Deflated Football]

Even though we have nothing to play for this season, we still need to think about the future. I would send any other picks besides a first rounder over to Chicago for Alshon and make sure he signs a long term contract before he lands in Baltimore. Not going to happen, but if he can be had for cheap before he enters free agency, I would grab him in a heartbeat.

[rmcjacket23]

Even though we have nothing to play for this season, we still need to think about the future. I would send any other picks besides a first rounder over to Chicago for Alshon and make sure he signs a long term contract before he lands in Baltimore. Not going to happen, but if he can be had for cheap before he enters free agency, I would grab him in a heartbeat.

1. I doubt Chicago would give him up for less than a first.

 

2. There's nothing to indicate that the Bears want to or should move him. I expect him to be a Bear for quite some time.

[Deflated Football]

1. I doubt Chicago would give him up for less than a first.

2. There's nothing to indicate that the Bears want to or should move him. I expect him to be a Bear for quite some time.

I agree, just dreaming for a bonafide young number one WR like I have been for years now.

[PurpleCity5]

I agree, just dreaming for a bonafide young number one WR like I have been for years now.

I love Alshon's game, but we have too many needs right now. I'd rather rebuild the defense, I'd love to have Mike Neal from Greenbay and a FS.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

There are a lot of dumb teams out there, plus we traded a 4th and a 5th for Monroe.

Only to have him play 50%-70% of each season

[Gordo52]

@FieldYates: Source: the Ravens tried out former Browns first round pick DL Phil Taylor. Big bodied former Baylor standout.

Guess we're all about ex Browns born in Maryland

[rmw10]

@FieldYates: Source: the Ravens tried out former Browns first round pick DL Phil Taylor. Big bodied former Baylor standout.

Guess we're all about ex Browns born in Maryland

 

No harm in trying him out.  Word is that those knees are bad, but I'd be interested if you could get him on a pitch count.  He hasn't quite lived up to his draft status but has still been a quality player.

[Winchester]

I love Alshon's game, but we have too many needs right now. I'd rather rebuild the defense, I'd love to have Mike Neal from Greenbay and a FS.

I would prefer to finally maximize Joe's talents and get him a bona fide #1. Ravens are not replacing Reed Lewis or Ngata. Much simpler to get a #1 WR that will open things up for the rest of the offense and take advantage of a franchise QB. Mike Neal is very underrated because of injuries and fluctuating weight and positions. So if he does hit the market he would be a bargain. His best position in my opinion is penetrating DT or 3-4 Defensive End at about 285 lbs or so Very similar power and explosion of Geno Atkins. He would be the best penetrator of the DLine rotation. Neal is one of the most underrated defenders in the league when healthy!! He is actually more talented than the far more heralded Mike Daniels. If he stayed healthy in ravens system he would be a double digit sack artist as a 3-4 penetrator and olb on obvious throwing downs. He is far more explosive than Mcphee!! He will not be very expensive and I see no reason ravens can not sign him and Alshon.

I would cut a number of current scrubs to sign Neal and Alshon. Aging Daryl Smith could be cut. Along with Lewis,Monroe,Elam and Pitta. Only free agents worth retaining are Tucker and Osemele. I would even cut Suggs. 35 yrs old coming back from an Achilles is silly and delusional to think he is going to come back and fix the rush.

As for cutting Jimmy. I am not sure what his cap savings would be. But Jimmy is a waste of $$!! He has been Injured or terrible more often than he flashed. If he were a round4 pick that merely flashed at times there is no way he would of received a big contract. But being he is an overhyped round1 draft pick he gets rewarded for his very rare success.

Bringing back Scrubshaw would be a mistake in my opinion. I ran into some of the crew from the fan at the harbor. I told them Upshaw is a bust and ravens should of traded up several spots for Jones. They got pi$$ed and rude and shot off how awesome Upshaw looked with his burst packaged in his thick powerful frame and how Upshaw is another future great raven defender. And Jones was overrated and lanky. And here is Jones leading the NFL in sacks while Upshaw doesn't know what a sack is. BTW Jones sets the edge better than Upshaw as well. Hopefully ravens let that busted waste of a #1 pick go and sign Mike Neal!!

[PurpleCity5]

I would prefer to finally maximize Joe's talents and get him a bona fide #1. Ravens are not replacing Reed Lewis or Ngata. Much simpler to get a #1 WR that will open things up for the rest of the offense and take advantage of a franchise QB. Mike Neal is very underrated because of injuries and fluctuating weight and positions. So if he does hit the market he would be a bargain. His best position in my opinion is penetrating DT or 3-4 Defensive End at about 285 lbs or so Very similar power and explosion of Geno Atkins. He would be the best penetrator of the DLine rotation. Neal is one of the most underrated defenders in the league when healthy!! He is actually more talented than the far more heralded Mike Daniels. If he stayed healthy in ravens system he would be a double digit sack artist as a 3-4 penetrator and olb on obvious throwing downs. He is far more explosive than Mcphee!! He will not be very expensive and I see no reason ravens can not sign him and Alshon.

I would cut a number of current scrubs to sign Neal and Alshon. Aging Daryl Smith could be cut. Along with Lewis,Monroe,Elam and Pitta. Only free agents worth retaining are Tucker and Osemele. I would even cut Suggs. 35 yrs old coming back from an Achilles is silly and delusional to think he is going to come back and fix the rush.

As for cutting Jimmy. I am not sure what his cap savings would be. But Jimmy is a waste of $$!! He has been Injured or terrible more often than he flashed. If he were a round4 pick that merely flashed at times there is no way he would of received a big contract. But being he is an overhyped round1 draft pick he gets rewarded for his very rare success.

Bringing back Scrubshaw would be a mistake in my opinion. I ran into some of the crew from the fan at the harbor. I told them Upshaw is a bust and ravens should of traded up several spots for Jones. They got pi$$ed and rude and shot off how awesome Upshaw looked with his burst packaged in his thick powerful frame and how Upshaw is another future great raven defender. And Jones was overrated and lanky. And here is Jones leading the NFL in sacks while Upshaw doesn't know what a sack is. BTW Jones sets the edge better than Upshaw as well. Hopefully ravens let that busted waste of a #1 pick go and sign Mike Neal!!

I definitely want Mike Neal here and I don’t see why we wouldn’t be interested in him. He’s exactly who we need as of now considering the fact that we’ve had a hard time replacing Pernell McPhee. Neal makes too much sense here. He wouldn’t command an overly expensive contract and would fill in immediate need. I don’t think there is much of a problem in terms of position. He would play OLB for us but can rush the passer from practically anywhere. His play style is similar to McPhee’s.

 

Cutting Eugene Monroe wouldn’t make sense. I know the injuries are bothersome but the cap savings are at 2M and do you know who we are putting out there? James Hurst is awful, period. I wouldn’t even want him as a full time starter, he’s bad. And what do you have outside of him? Nothing. Unless we draft Ronnie Stanley or Laremy Tunsil, I wouldn’t even consider cutting Monroe. And Cutting Suggs? Have you seen what losing Suggs for a year has done? No way. I agree with your settlements on Upshaw, I don’t want him back. 

[Winchester]

Hurst is awful. But Monroe isn't much better and he rarely plays. A round3 tackle could outplay either!! I can't believe ravens didn't draft clemmings!! May as well draft a tackle. I would like to see tunsil or Stanley but it should not be hard to find an upgrade over both. The defense IS struggling without Suggs. But at 34 was he going to be the pro bowler Suggs or begin to be the shell of himself?? Now at 35 coming back from another Achilles?? He is a contributer at best much less a difference maker if he returns. Time for some young edge rushers!!

And I think Neal is far more explosive than Mcphee could ever dream!! His power and explosive 5 yard bursts and flexibility to get low make him a prime fit as a 3-4 penetrator. He has very similar skill set to Atkins and the new phenom in St. Louis. Capers told my co worker/friend himself he wants to keep him. However hopefully the packer organization prioritizes Daniels

[-Truth-]

I'm tagging out.

[usmccharles]

 I would even cut Suggs. 35 yrs old coming back from an Achilles is silly and delusional to think he is going to come back and fix the rush.

 

Dude, do you ever look up info before you post? Suggs just turned 33...

 

I will answer that for you, no, no you dont. 

[Winchester]

Dude, do you ever look up info before you post? Suggs just turned 33...

I will answer that for you, no, no you dont.

Fine!! Next year he will be going on 35 when he returns. We will Have to wait and see how he performs if he returns and see who is right;) Anybody that has ever remotely attempted to keep in shape or played a sport other than video games or fantasy league knows what happens to athleticism in mid 30's much less coming back from an injury. I could only imagine why nobody posts pics of themselves around here. Edited November 13, 2015 by Winchester

[usmccharles]

Fine!! Next year he will be going on 35 when he returns. We will? Have to wait and see how he performs if he returns and see who is right;)

Its common knowledge that the older the player gets, his performance will go down.  Suggs declining will still be better than most pass rushers out there.  Let me guess, you prolly wanted us to cut Ray Lewis because he was a weak point in coverage at the end of his career....smh. some people

[Winchester]

Its common knowledge that the older the player gets, his performance will go down.  Suggs declining will still be better than most pass rushers out there.  Let me guess, you prolly wanted us to cut Ray Lewis because he was a weak point in coverage at the end of his career....smh. some people

And you do not see Suggs has declined any already so far?? And at what point is he no better than some rotational dude?? When he is 50??!!

[usmccharles]

And you do not see Suggs has declined any already so far?? And at what point is he no better than some rotational dude?? When he is 50??!!

you do realize he had his second best year rushing the passer last year?  you prolly dont since you never look anything up.  You make no legit argument on cutting sugs other than he will be 35...in 2 years, since that is a fact i cant argue that.  Suggs is what anchors our defense.  look at week 1 compared to week 2...but i know you will come back and just say...hes old! trade for von miller!

[Winchester]

you do realize he had his second best year rushing the passer last year?  you prolly dont since you never look anything up.  You make no legit argument on cutting sugs other than he will be 35...in 2 years, since that is a fact i cant argue that.  Suggs is what anchors our defense.  look at week 1 compared to week 2...but i know you will come back and just say...hes old! trade for von miller!

So he is coming back at 34 yrs old coming off an Achilles injury to anchor the defense??!! I'm going out on a limb here and say he will be a shell of his prime. How many players came off great years only to decline sharply?? Jared Allen, freeney. And if you get below the surface of things he was a non factor in new England and finished the regular season on kind of a sack drought. Surprise Surprise the defense played better against Peyton's arm?? As long as the Suggs anchored ravens Defense play qbs that can't throw over 45 yards it can dominate?? Awesome!! That and a buck will buy a bag of potato chips.