Cut, Trade, or Re-sign

[bertopr]

Us trade for Cordell Patterson. Yes NOW! While the gettin is good n they feel like they'll do better without him. Btw twice we should have moved up in the draft. Once for Peter's who is a beast out there and for Diggs...smh The only 2 guys I wanted.no moho

[PurpleSnowman]

there is no point in trading anymore. we are better off playing guys who need to develop and seeing who is worth keeping on our roster. 

[52liveforever]

naaahhhh. It's just too late to be doing anything like that. if we had managed to get to 3-3 i'd probably be a supporter, but right now we are just too far gone.

[usmccharles]

there is no point in trading anymore. we are better off playing guys who need to develop and seeing who is worth keeping on our roster. 

This. 

 

And you could have at least picked a good wr. 

[PurpleCity5]

Def. Re-sign Ross. I like him.

[usmccharles]

is butler on the PS?

[bertopr]

Trade for or sign Alfred Morris...skins just don't know when they have a baller EVER! this guy can definitely bring back our old bruising style offense. He's only what 27??

[Ravens2343]

is butler on the PS?

 

Yes he is

 

Trade for or sign Alfred Morris...skins just don't know when they have a baller EVER! this guy can definitely bring back our old bruising style offense. He's only what 27??

 

Morris is going to be a free agent this year, we could just sign him.  I think we go running back in the draft to get younger and cheaper

[rmcjacket23]

Trade for or sign Alfred Morris...skins just don't know when they have a baller EVER! this guy can definitely bring back our old bruising style offense. He's only what 27??

Alfred Morris is a JAG.

 

Complete byproduct of the read-option and a quality zone-blocking scheme under Shanahan.

 

The moment the Redskins shifted to more power-based, man blocking scheme, his numbers declined dramatically.

[jimjim5]

Cut Webb, Marlon, Arthur brown, kendrick

TRADE a TE

Resign juice

Juice is a bum.

[GrimCoconut]

Alfred Morris is a JAG.

Complete byproduct of the read-option and a quality zone-blocking scheme under Shanahan.

The moment the Redskins shifted to more power-based, man blocking scheme, his numbers declined dramatically.

Probably, but he's still a good fit for us since we do run that ZBS.

[Drew P]

Juice is a bum.

 

I was advocating for his release in camp

[rmcjacket23]

Probably, but he's still a good fit for us since we do run that ZBS.

... with a lot of tread on his tires. 

 

No better than Forsett from what I've seen so far.

[ravensfan520]

In the offseason trade Flacco to a cap friendly team or cut him if the dead money is not to much and cut Pitta. It's time to reboot. Rebuild the defense to a hard nosed team and look for a good journeyman qb to work with until we draft a new qb...

That's right I said let Flacco go... we don't have the money to give him lots of weapons and expect him and the offense to carry the team... he fizzles out too much and his clutch ability has diminished. It's time to regroup... the run was great but we need to move on sometime why not now and retool for another big run.

We will have a lot of picks... and possibly good picks... let's use them wisely and get young playmakers and sprinkle in some Nasty guys like keeping Suggs around.

[Ravens2343]

In the offseason trade Flacco to a cap friendly team or cut him if the dead money is not to much and cut Pitta. It's time to reboot. Rebuild the defense to a hard nosed team and look for a good journeyman qb to work with until we draft a new qb...

That's right I said let Flacco go... we don't have the money to give him lots of weapons and expect him and the offense to carry the team... he fizzles out too much and his clutch ability has diminished. It's time to regroup... the run was great but we need to move on sometime why not now and retool for another big run.

We will have a lot of picks... and possibly good picks... let's use them wisely and get young playmakers and sprinkle in some Nasty guys like keeping Suggs around.

 

I cannot believe people even waste their time thinking of Flacco not being a Raven next year.  This organization and city loves Flacco and what he has done, obviously not everyone agrees but there are not much better options out there.  Flacco will be extended and probably spend quite a few more years here, so I would probably get used to it.  We will give him weapons this offseason on top of Gilmore, Williams and Perriman.  Flacco is the one player we cannot live without, if we went and restarted it could be years until we sniff the playoffs again

[rmcjacket23]

In the offseason trade Flacco to a cap friendly team or cut him if the dead money is not to much and cut Pitta. It's time to reboot. Rebuild the defense to a hard nosed team and look for a good journeyman qb to work with until we draft a new qb...

That's right I said let Flacco go... we don't have the money to give him lots of weapons and expect him and the offense to carry the team... he fizzles out too much and his clutch ability has diminished. It's time to regroup... the run was great but we need to move on sometime why not now and retool for another big run.

We will have a lot of picks... and possibly good picks... let's use them wisely and get young playmakers and sprinkle in some Nasty guys like keeping Suggs around.

You'll be the Cleveland Browns for a decade under this strategy...

[-Truth-]

Probably, but he's still a good fit for us since we do run that ZBS.

I'd be on board. He'd be an effective two-down option. Probably wouldn't be overpriced neither.

[GrimCoconut]

... with a lot of tread on his tires.

No better than Forsett from what I've seen so far.

I'd be on board. He'd be an effective two-down option. Probably wouldn't be overpriced neither.

I see it the same as Truth. Even if he's got tread, why not try to sign him if he's affordable? There's nothing wrong with getting better. Forsett has his injuries and it's not like we couldn't use a guy. I know we have Allen and Taliaferro, and I'm not even sure Morris wants to come here, but I wouldn't mind the signing at all. It's not like Taliaferro isn't coming off his second campaign ended early due to injury for the same time he's been in the league. Edited October 22, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[ravensfan520]

I cannot believe people even waste their time thinking of Flacco not being a Raven next year. This organization and city loves Flacco and what he has done, obviously not everyone agrees but there are not much better options out there. Flacco will be extended and probably spend quite a few more years here, so I would probably get used to it. We will give him weapons this offseason on top of Gilmore, Williams and Perriman. Flacco is the one player we cannot live without, if we went and restarted it could be years until we sniff the playoffs again

I know everyone loves Flacco and he played well for us in his time here... just think about it since his big contract... He has done what... thrown a pic in the final drive in the afc championship last year... missed the playoffs after we lost Boldin... will miss the playoffs this year... (lets be honest with or withou weapons Flacco has not looked good)has looked awful. When he played on his rookie contract we had a more rounded team so his mistakes or flaws were either hidden by a tough defense or an remarkable play by former weapons. Luck has been on his side and my theory is his luck is running thin... the back footed throw and pray aren't working anymore and throw it deep and get a pass interference call is gone without torrey... my point is why extend Flacco out... and pay extend a quarterback who is on the back end of his career when we can rebuild a balanced team. This team has many holes and just given Flacco one wr or rb or 1 more weapon is not going to stop him from staring at that one wr and throwing into double coverage... just saying.

It's time to move on... He may be the best qb that's ever been as a raven but he really hasn't had much to contend against... whose to say we won't find a gem somewhere.

[ravensfan520]

You'll be the Cleveland Browns for a decade under this strategy...

You mean the team that just outplayed us and looks like they are better going forward then we do... be serious... You never know we could build a team like the Bengals have slowly built... I mean Seattle won a superbowl with Russell Wilson who was a I think 5th round pick... I mean defenses are still important and we have complaining about not giving Flacco weapons but are forgetting to give the defense some real weapons.

[Ravens2343]

I know everyone loves Flacco and he played well for us in his time here... just think about it since his big contract... He has done what... thrown a pic in the final drive in the afc championship last year... missed the playoffs after we lost Boldin... will miss the playoffs this year... (lets be honest with or withou weapons Flacco has not looked good)has looked awful. When he played on his rookie contract we had a more rounded team so his mistakes or flaws were either hidden by a tough defense or an remarkable play by former weapons. Luck has been on his side and my theory is his luck is running thin... the back footed throw and pray aren't working anymore and throw it deep and get a pass interference call is gone without torrey... my point is why extend Flacco out... and pay extend a quarterback who is on the back end of his career when we can rebuild a balanced team. This team has many holes and just given Flacco one wr or rb or 1 more weapon is not going to stop him from staring at that one wr and throwing into double coverage... just saying.

It's time to move on... He may be the best qb that's ever been as a raven but he really hasn't had much to contend against... whose to say we won't find a gem somewhere.

 

Lets assume that Flacco agrees to an extension this offseason that lowers his cap hit and puts him back in the range of 8-12 QB money, then he is absolutely worth it.  Last year he threw that pick in the AFCG figuring Torrey would fight for it, it didn't happen and it looks bad but he also made throws in that game few QB's could make.  Our defense let him down in that game and has let him down in numerous games this year, like Cleveland. 

 

I get that people think his contract is the reason we lost players, but in reality it was not the biggest reason why.  We will be able to give him more weapons this year and should be able to build the defense back up to being a top 10 unit, especially with a change at D-coordinator. 

 

Flacco is undoubtedly a top 12 QB in this league and is only 30 years old, he has atleast 5 more years of his prime left considering he does not take a beating.  If you are all for getting rid of guys who have a big cap hit and are not living up to their contract then start with guys like Webb, Monroe and Pitta.  Perriman, Gilmore, Forsett, Williams and hopefully another draft pick or two at WR (we have 10-12 picks this year) and a veteran free agent will be enough to get Flacco back on track.  Couple all of that with a defensive laden draft and we should be on our way back to the top

[Deflated Football]

LOL @ anyone wanting to dump Flacco. Give it a break. He's OVERACHIEVED this season and has put us in position to win every game despite some dumb turnovers which were probably due to him trying to make something happen without a competent WR group behind SSS. Blame Ozzie for that, not Flacco.

[rmcjacket23]

You mean the team that just outplayed us and looks like they are better going forward then we do... be serious... You never know we could build a team like the Bengals have slowly built... I mean Seattle won a superbowl with Russell Wilson who was a I think 5th round pick... I mean defenses are still important and we have complaining about not giving Flacco weapons but are forgetting to give the defense some real weapons.

I mean everything looks great when you start finding the outliers, but outliers are outliers for a reason. Heck, we should just keep holding out hope that we find a 6th round gem like Tom Brady, and lets just ignore the fact that its been 15+ years since that happened.

 

Lets be realistic here... the college QB market is a baron wasteland. QBs like Blake Bortles and Derek Carr are about the absolute best you can expect from college right now.

 

Straight face and all, how many QBs drafted since 2008 (the year Flacco was drafted) are walking around in this league that play QB better than Joe Flacco right now?

 

Lets take a look:

 

If you take just QBs drafted from 2009-2014, lets go round by round at who these QBs are: 

 

1st round QBs: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Jack Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel

 

Of those guys, which even ONE, besides Andrew Luck, am I supposed to be impressed enough to say "yeah, that guy will do better than Flacco will right now"? I don't see a name on that list. The only debatable one's at this point would be Newton/Stafford/Tannehill, and they all get paid top dollar. 

 

Lets go further:

 

2nd round QBs: Pat White, Jimmy Clausen, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Brock Osweiler, Geno Smith, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garapolo

 

Same question, who am I supposed to be impressed by? Dalton?

 

3rd round QBs: Colt McCoy, Ryan Mallett, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Mike Glennon

 

Here, there's Wilson, and a bunch of career backup type QBs

 

4th round QBs: Stephen McGee, Mike Kafka, Kirk Cousins, Matt Barkley, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson, Landry Jones, Logan Thomas, Tom Savage

 

Kirk Cousins is the BEST of this group. Yikes.

 

I'd list all the 5th to 7th rounders, but its not worth it. The most accomplished on that list are Tyrod Taylor (who hasn't even started for a full season), Zach Mettenberger, and TJ Yates.

 

Not really that hard to see why "starting over" is so difficult for teams like the Browns, because you spend an eternity looking for a player who comes around once every five years, at best. And even that player is an Andy Dalton type.

 

Where's the upside? I don't care if the Browns are better than us right now... they're going to win 6-7 games just like they did last year and be irrelevant... just like they've been for many years. They got a pretty good defense and it means nothing because they have no consistency at QB and haven't for a long time. Until then, they are irrelevant.

 

I'd bet the Browns would cut half their defense just for the opportunity to sign Flacco, because they understand what most teams understand... good defensive players exist annually in the draft. Good QBs are incredibly rare these days.

[Militant X 1]

I mean everything looks great when you start finding the outliers, but outliers are outliers for a reason. Heck, we should just keep holding out hope that we find a 6th round gem like Tom Brady, and lets just ignore the fact that its been 15+ years since that happened.

 

Lets be realistic here... the college QB market is a baron wasteland. QBs like Blake Bortles and Derek Carr are about the absolute best you can expect from college right now.

 

Straight face and all, how many QBs drafted since 2008 (the year Flacco was drafted) are walking around in this league that play QB better than Joe Flacco right now?

 

Lets take a look:

 

If you take just QBs drafted from 2009-2014, lets go round by round at who these QBs are: 

 

1st round QBs: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Jack Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel

 

Of those guys, which even ONE, besides Andrew Luck, am I supposed to be impressed enough to say "yeah, that guy will do better than Flacco will right now"? I don't see a name on that list. The only debatable one's at this point would be Newton/Stafford/Tannehill, and they all get paid top dollar. 

 

Lets go further:

 

2nd round QBs: Pat White, Jimmy Clausen, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Brock Osweiler, Geno Smith, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garapolo

 

Same question, who am I supposed to be impressed by? Dalton?

 

3rd round QBs: Colt McCoy, Ryan Mallett, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Mike Glennon

 

Here, there's Wilson, and a bunch of career backup type QBs

 

4th round QBs: Stephen McGee, Mike Kafka, Kirk Cousins, Matt Barkley, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson, Landry Jones, Logan Thomas, Tom Savage

 

Kirk Cousins is the BEST of this group. Yikes.

 

I'd list all the 5th to 7th rounders, but its not worth it. The most accomplished on that list are Tyrod Taylor (who hasn't even started for a full season), Zach Mettenberger, and TJ Yates.

 

Not really that hard to see why "starting over" is so difficult for teams like the Browns, because you spend an eternity looking for a player who comes around once every five years, at best. And even that player is an Andy Dalton type.

 

Where's the upside? I don't care if the Browns are better than us right now... they're going to win 6-7 games just like they did last year and be irrelevant... just like they've been for many years. They got a pretty good defense and it means nothing because they have no consistency at QB and haven't for a long time. Until then, they are irrelevant.

 

I'd bet the Browns would cut half their defense just for the opportunity to sign Flacco, because they understand what most teams understand... good defensive players exist annually in the draft. Good QBs are incredibly rare these days.

 

Now this is a break down of yours that I really enjoyed.  Very insightful!  Great job bro!   

[ravensfan520]

I mean everything looks great when you start finding the outliers, but outliers are outliers for a reason. Heck, we should just keep holding out hope that we find a 6th round gem like Tom Brady, and lets just ignore the fact that its been 15+ years since that happened.

Lets be realistic here... the college QB market is a baron wasteland. QBs like Blake Bortles and Derek Carr are about the absolute best you can expect from college right now.

Straight face and all, how many QBs drafted since 2008 (the year Flacco was drafted) are walking around in this league that play QB better than Joe Flacco right now?

Lets take a look:

If you take just QBs drafted from 2009-2014, lets go round by round at who these QBs are:

1st round QBs: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Cam Newton, Jack Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannehill, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel

Of those guys, which even ONE, besides Andrew Luck, am I supposed to be impressed enough to say "yeah, that guy will do better than Flacco will right now"? I don't see a name on that list. The only debatable one's at this point would be Newton/Stafford/Tannehill, and they all get paid top dollar.

Lets go further:

2nd round QBs: Pat White, Jimmy Clausen, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Brock Osweiler, Geno Smith, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garapolo

Same question, who am I supposed to be impressed by? Dalton?

3rd round QBs: Colt McCoy, Ryan Mallett, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Mike Glennon

Here, there's Wilson, and a bunch of career backup type QBs

4th round QBs: Stephen McGee, Mike Kafka, Kirk Cousins, Matt Barkley, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Wilson, Landry Jones, Logan Thomas, Tom Savage

Kirk Cousins is the BEST of this group. Yikes.

I'd list all the 5th to 7th rounders, but its not worth it. The most accomplished on that list are Tyrod Taylor (who hasn't even started for a full season), Zach Mettenberger, and TJ Yates.

Not really that hard to see why "starting over" is so difficult for teams like the Browns, because you spend an eternity looking for a player who comes around once every five years, at best. And even that player is an Andy Dalton type.

Where's the upside? I don't care if the Browns are better than us right now... they're going to win 6-7 games just like they did last year and be irrelevant... just like they've been for many years. They got a pretty good defense and it means nothing because they have no consistency at QB and haven't for a long time. Until then, they are irrelevant.

I'd bet the Browns would cut half their defense just for the opportunity to sign Flacco, because they understand what most teams understand... good defensive players exist annually in the draft. Good QBs are incredibly rare these days.

Let's relook at that again... Dalton and Cam are having MVP type years... and Cam has less weapons than Flacco. Dalton has weapons but the Bengals have been giving Dalton weapons and we have been not... why I don't know could it be everyone in The office is trying to prove that he can do it without or is in the elite conversation. Hey and wasn't Dalton a probowler...

Every Flacco lover wants to make excuses for him because he is the best we have ever had... gain not saying much because before that we had Boller and some life long backups other than McNair. Go ahead extend him... but stop making excuses for him... sometimes when he is the problem... we need to start pointing fingers at the person who is supposed to be the leader of your offense.

On your topic of busts every position has its busts... we had quite a few as well as every team. It's not just the qb... even Mark Sanchez took his team to the AFC championship I think it was twice. Why... because their team was a rounded out team played smash mouth and had a great defense... like we did when Flacco was early in his years. My point is look at teams that surround their qb with talent when they are on their rookie contract and then look at them after they get their secound... Russell Wilson, Kapernick, Flacco, Stafford, and Sanchez etc... Only the elite qbs do it with the secound tier weapons or draft picks... Brady, Rogers, a less beat up/old Manning. QBs like Carr, Dalton, Bortles, Bridgewater, etc are building... we are not. So let's start. We can't expect Flacco to play like a journeyman qb and get paid like a top 10 guy when he is not. It's not just the records it the game film. Records are deceiving because like the Houston playoff game where we should have been blown out but Our Defense played great and we pulled out a win. Or the mile miracle that Jones pulls off. Without that debacle of coverage we may never have been having this conversation.

Edited October 23, 2015 by ravensfan520

[rmcjacket23]

Let's relook at that again... Dalton and Cam are having type years... and Cam has less weapons than Flacco. Dalton has weapons but the Bengals have been giving Dalton weapons and we have been not... why I don't know could it be everyone I. The office is trying to prove that he can do it without. Hey and wasn't Dalton a probowler...

Every Flacco lover wants to make excuses for him because he is the best we have... again not saying much because before that we had Boller and some life long backups other than McNair. Go ahead extend him... but stop making excuses for him... sometimes when he is the problem... we need to start pointing fingers at the person who is supposed to be the leader of your offense.

1. You're right... they've both having good years. They both also have much more talent overall, particularly on defense, than we do.

 

2. The FO, to this point, has been operating under the same way we've always wanted them to... run the ball, play great defense  (by investing in the defense, both in the draft and financially). The reason that's not working this year is because the defense isn't very good.

 

3. Nobodies making excuses for him... he gets full blame when he throws dumb INTs just like every QB does. But there's a gigantic difference between thinking that we are making excuses for him and suggesting that he should be released. Suggesting he should be released is ludicrous, as largely proved by my post earlier outlining the basic optimal expectation you can have for releasing him, and showing how that optimal replacement (basically a Dalton/Newton type) might take several years to obtain. In the mean time, we lose games, plain and simple.

 

I'm as critical of Joe as anybody, because he's an incredibly pedestrian regular season QB for the most part. This nothing new to anybody, so why all of the sudden now its somehow a conversation topic I don't understand. We know his postseason play speaks for itself, which is why he is paid what he is paid.

 

We amplify his regular season struggles (which again, are nothing new) ONLY when the team isn't doing very well. In the grand scheme of things, he's playing better than he did in 2013, when he was below average, and the team still won 8 games. Yet, this team probably has no realistic shot at winning 8 games... so whats the difference? He's better than his previous season where he had very little weapons, and the teams winning less games. The difference? The other personnel on the team.

 

Cutting Joe doesn't solve any problems... it creates new one's. If you want to bash him for throwing dumb picks and when he plays poorly, go for it. Its the flavor of the week when the team is struggling.

 

But why wasn't anybody suggesting we cut him after last season when he had (yet again) another great postseason and his best regular season as a pro? You mean in 6 regular seasons games he's somehow gone from being worth every penny we paid for him (and frankly more) to now not even being worth a roster spot?

 

Sorry, logically that just doesn't hold up. These QBs ain't growing on trees in the back yard where you can just go grab one at will...

 

O, and Pro Bowls are beauty contests. Nobody cares about them, half the invitees turn them down, and its never a positive to reference it in the context of proving how good somebody is. Our current backup QB, who's 1/100th the QB Joe is, has been to a Pro Bowl, and Joe hasn't.

 

Its utterly meaningless.

Edited October 22, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[bertopr]

naaahhhh. It's just too late to be doing anything like that. if we had managed to get to 3-3 i'd probably be a supporter, but right now we are just too far gone.

What are yall talking about?! This seasons been over lol. This is the time to grab someone like Patterson on the cheap. Heck I'll do it for a 4th even a 3rd the way these scouts look at WR'S lol

[rmcjacket23]

What are yall talking about?! This seasons been over lol. This is the time to grab someone like Patterson on the cheap. Heck I'll do it for a 4th even a 3rd the way these scouts look at WR'S lol

What makes you think a contending team would trade a quality backup and return man to a non contending team for a middling draft pick?

 

Don't see the motivation on the Vikings side to be honest...

[Moderator 3]

There's a Flacco thread. Please take it there.

[Moderator 3]

On second thought, the same discussion is already happening there so please drop it here.