Is Bob Rogucki the real problem?

[52liveforever]

Second year in a row we have been completely plagued by injuries which can be prevented by proper strength and conditioning.

Also losing games in the second half. Could it be an issue of fatigue and not talent or gameplan?

IMO it's clearly an issue and Rogucki deserves some weight of the blame, but how much?

[ravefan52]

Yeah that's not a bad question. That could definitely be apart of the problem, but I think from an outside view it's impossible for us to tell.

Edited October 14, 2015 by ravefan52

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

It would be hard to determine how much blame to put on a person for player injuries because injuries happen in the NFL. That being said it does seem like some of the same players are always getting  injured a lot more than others. It could easily be blamed on how they train and take care of their bodies. Interesting question.

 

As far as losing games it boils down to stupid penalties and a lack of intensity and urgency. The defense has got to finish and get off the field. When the offense has the ball they have to keep drives alive and walk away with points. That comes down to every one on the team from the coaches down to the trainers doing their job. So far this year no one has really done their job. Even the Steelers game we could have easily lost if they would have had a reliable kicker I would be willing to bet Tomlin would have marched him on the field and went for the field goal to get the  Win.

Edited October 14, 2015 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[GrimCoconut]

The strength & conditioning coach can't condition a player to avoid an ACL or Achilles tear. It just can't happen. Hamstring injuries, perhaps, but those are also tricky. 

 

Perhaps if you want to blame anyone, blame the coaches who teach the technique. Technique is usually how injuries occur, or rather, improper technique is how they occur.

[52liveforever]

The strength & conditioning coach can't condition a player to avoid an ACL or Achilles tear. It just can't happen. Hamstring injuries, perhaps, but those are also tricky. 

 

Perhaps if you want to blame anyone, blame the coaches who teach the technique. Technique is usually how injuries occur, or rather, improper technique is how they occur.

As someone with chronic knee issues and continuing to compete in athletics knee injuries can be minimized in many ways. Joints become less durable when you're dehydrated which was a major problem for me as a wrestler often times dehydrating myself to make weight. Guys at this level especially ones with joint problems should get an IV in my mind prior to competing. Also building the muscle around the knee for stability without irritating it. Doing full squats and anything using both legs you will tend to favor one leg so doing exercises isolating muscle groups is very important.

Not saying the trainers don't do this, however it is worth questioning.

[GrimCoconut]

As someone with chronic knee issues and continuing to compete in athletics knee injuries can be minimized in many ways. Joints become less durable when you're dehydrated which was a major problem for me as a wrestler often times dehydrating myself to make weight. Guys at this level especially ones with joint problems should get an IV in my mind prior to competing. Also building the muscle around the knee for stability without irritating it. Doing full squats and anything using both legs you will tend to favor one leg so doing exercises isolating muscle groups is very important.

Not saying the trainers don't do this, however it is worth questioning.

Yeah, I know about those techniques. They certainly help, but it's ultimately up to the players to make sure they're conditioned. Webb came into camp out of shape. I can't blame Bob for that. Some of these guys are just lazy, and honestly, it seems to be mostly on the defense. I don't know what's up with some of them. Some are hot and some just aren't. Upshaw & Webb are the two that immediately come to mind, but Brandon Williams & Jimmy Smith do what they must to condition their bodies. I recall articles stating how both were staples during the offseason around the training facility. 

[PurpleCity5]

I don't think you can blame the conditioning coach for ACL and Achilies injuries as well. Those are just freak accidents that you can't avoid, unless we have a guy who can see the future, lol. Some players have to be accountable for keeping their bodies well trained and healthy, that's it honestly. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[52liveforever]

I don't think you can blame the conditioning coach for ACL and Achilies injuries as well. Those are just freak accidents that you can't avoid, unless we have a guy who can see the future, lol. Some players have to be accountable for keeping their bodies well trained and healthy, that's it honestly.

I mean I understand that its also on the players, but if you put the defensive woes on the players and pees, is it not the same for the strength and conditioning coach. Otherwise what's the point in having strength and conditioning personnel if they aren't there to mitigate or minimize these possibilities. If you look at the Ravens compared to other teams accross the NFL we are above the norm when it comes to injuries. So is it dumb luck or something else.

Just saying it is something that deserves a look into.

[K-Dog]

Sometimes there is no one to blame.

Sometimes things just happen.

[Tank 92]

Yeah, I know about those techniques. They certainly help, but it's ultimately up to the players to make sure they're conditioned. Webb came into camp out of shape. I can't blame Bob for that. Some of these guys are just lazy, and honestly, it seems to be mostly on the defense. I don't know what's up with some of them. Some are hot and some just aren't. Upshaw & Webb are the two that immediately come to mind, but Brandon Williams & Jimmy Smith do what they must to condition their bodies. I recall articles stating how both were staples during the offseason around the training facility. 

 

This is a fair point. Off season conditioning(or more appropriately a lack of) seems a more likely reason for the rash of injuries. Sizzle actually said he didn't do as much this past off season and we all know the story with Webb. Think about Ray Lewis, an off season workout freak.  Injuries during his career were minimal until near the end.

 

That said, there will always be the unavoidable injury that will happen no matter what precautions are taken.  

[rmcjacket23]

Training/conditioning is 100% the responsibility of the players.

[Sami84]

the offseason program is brutal..some players even boasted that '' it's the toughest camp around.

 

 

i said earlier in the season players will be worn out and get injuries because of it.

 

 

im sick of harbaraugh. He's way too defensive for my liking. When he asked eisenberg after he questioned the ravens playoffs chances as being pretty non existent ..he said ''we can...you don't think we can make it? ''...even in his voice..he lost conviction..he needs to come clean and say '' we are not a good football team right now, coaches players and myself, we are all responsible'' '' its clear in hindsight we have come up short in all aspects of making this football team and while I'm not going to just quit on this season, its clear that if things continue to be the same over the next several weeks, we will need to come to a  few important decisions ''

[rmcjacket23]

the offseason program is brutal..some players even boasted that '' it's the toughest camp around.

 

 

i said earlier in the season players will be worn out and get injuries because of it.

 

 

im sick of harbaraugh. He's way too defensive for my liking. When he asked eisenberg after he questioned the ravens playoffs chances as being pretty non existent ..he said ''we can...you don't think we can make it? ''...even in his voice..he lost conviction..he needs to come clean and say '' we are not a good football team right now, coaches players and myself, we are all responsible'' '' its clear in hindsight we have come up short in all aspects of making this football team and while I'm not going to just quit on this season, its clear that if things continue to be the same over the next several weeks, we will need to come to a  few important decisions ''

Been running the same "tough" camp for years now, all the way back to when Ed and Ray were roaming the field.

 

In 2011 and 2012, that "tough" camp was one of the reasons why the team was tough and why they were prepared. Now, strictly because we are losing and the fanbase needs something to blame other than the players, that "tough" camp is supposedly a bad thing.

 

SMH... the logic in here sometimes is horrendous.

[berad]

Who was in the program throughout this past offseason that ended up getting hurt?

[CorvusCorax]

Should the turf we play on game days be part of the blame? Wasn't Webb's prior ACL tears at home (M&T) stadium?

 

I see where you are getting at, but I am expand the viewpoint more. Seems like we take a lot of injuries while playing at home...

Edited October 14, 2015 by CorvusCorax

[jimmypowder]

Nah , he's not the problem . The problem is LACK OF TALENT AT KEY POSITIONS.

 

We may have the worst Secondary and Receiver Group in the NFL . 

[-Truth-]

Nah , he's not the problem . The problem is LACK OF TALENT AT KEY POSITIONS.

We may have the worst Secondary and Receiver Group in the NFL .

The worst secondary group with regards to talent or performance?

[Drew P]

These guys don't trust each other. Watch the Seahags they maintain lane discipline. Watch the Ravens they fly around the ball not too it.

[JoeyFlex5]

ask this question during preseason: "lol youre overreacting the whole nfl deals with injuries were going to da super bowwwl!" 

 

ask this question during a tailspin: "obviously its the conditioning coaches fault" 

 

i brought this up many times when i could just see the injury bug creeping up on us in camp, our first round pick goes down, 2 torn biceps, webb injury, campanaro with one injury after another, jernigan, wagner missing practice time, etc. etc.... but if you mention this right before the season starts, no matter how obvious then youre clueless. 

 

i saw this injury bug coming, and i dont think for one second its just bad luck for 2 years straight, not to this degree, this is absolutely ridiculous.

[JoeyFlex5]

Training/conditioning is 100% the responsibility of the players.

then why do they hire and pay a hefty salary to strength and conditioning coaches?

[cobrajet]

ask this question during preseason: "lol youre overreacting the whole nfl deals with injuries were going to da super bowwwl!" 

 

ask this question during a tailspin: "obviously its the conditioning coaches fault" 

 

i brought this up many times when i could just see the injury bug creeping up on us in camp, our first round pick goes down, 2 torn biceps, webb injury, campanaro with one injury after another, jernigan, wagner missing practice time, etc. etc.... but if you mention this right before the season starts, no matter how obvious then youre clueless. 

 

i saw this injury bug coming, and i dont think for one second its just bad luck for 2 years straight, not to this degree, this is absolutely ridiculous.

I agree with you, teams can run into a stretch of bad luck regarding injuries but this has been going on for years now with the Ravens and our injury list is just way too insanely long to continue to say it is just bad luck. I am convinced something is wrong and seriously needs to be examined ASAP! It may be a combination of things but we need to make some changes because the amount of injuries on our team are beyond ridiculous.

[GrimCoconut]

OK, so how about this argument if you want to blame Bob Rogucki for the injuries: 

 

Why is it that we were considered one of the healthiest teams for a couple years now? Last year we rated 7th, & the years before that we were 3rd. I also recall from memory that we (the fans) used to boast a few years ago about how this team remains healthy. Does anyone know how long Bob Rogucki has been here? He's been here since Harbaugh came to Baltimore. Yes, that means that the health concerns we have now are not necessarily related to his performance or teachings to the players. 

 

No, I am firmly against any sales pitch someone wants to throw around that he's somehow to blame. That's absurd & simply doesn't meet with logic or the facts that support the contrary! 

 

Injuries don't just occur due to improper condition. In fact, in my experience working with athletes post injury in acute care, the most common reason for injuries seems to be bad technique. Granted, I do believe being overweight or not properly condition attributes to injuries. I also believe that our reckless & poor technique is probably more of the culprit than any other excuse we want to throw around or scapegoat we want to find to cast blame. The bad technique is evident on the field. 

 

Position coaches should go before Bob. I don't think he's the problem at all right now. 

 

http://www.empowher.com/muscle-injuries/content/how-lessen-risks-knee-acl-injuries

Most knee ACL injuries occur when you decelerate, come to a sudden stop or land with improper technique while placing too much stress on the knees. If you are an athlete, you should dominate with the hamstrings, hips and glutes during movement. The hips are often under-used during sports competition. Another common mechanical breakdown is when the knees protrude far in front of the feet when decelerating, landing or squatting. This puts undue stress on the knees and often causes injury. Also, when the quadriceps are much stronger than the hamstrings, this can cause an ACL injury. Research has shown that the hamstrings play an important role in stabilizing the knee and protecting the ACL during deceleration.

So, yes, Bob should be helping to build up the hamstrings & avoid the quadriceps from being stronger than the hamstrings. Who's to say he doesn't do this and that it's not the aforementioned reason in bold that shows how most (as in, most common) ACL injuries are due to technique? I happen to go on the side that perhaps Bob, who has been here since Harbaugh came, isn't the problem and that the players & position coaches are. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[JoeyFlex5]

I agree with you, teams can run into a stretch of bad luck regarding injuries but this has been going on for years now with the Ravens and our injury list is just way too insanely long to continue to say it is just bad luck. I am convinced something is wrong and seriously needs to be examined ASAP! It may be a combination of things but we need to make some changes because the amount of injuries on our team are beyond ridiculous.

im not gonna place it all on the conditioning coach, but he has to be doing something wrong. '

 

some of our players need to get to work in the offseason and stop being lazy and coming to camp out of shape as well. these guys spend the offseason falling more and more out of shape and when camp comes around they have dedicate their summer to losing weight, rather than strengthening the muscles around their knees, working on safe technique, and things like that, instead they have to work twice in hard in half the time to just burn weight, it leaves their bodies weak and fragile. so the players absolutely are a problem, but i think our conditioning coach does need to be held accountable because he is paid a fat paycheck to keep these players as healthy as he can, either they blatantly ignore and avoid his guidance or he isnt doing something right.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Fire Chris Hewitt. Would solve alot of our problems.

[Guest Omerta]

This is just my opinion from being an athlete in college, I have no formal training in physiology or strength and conditioning or even a personal trainer.

I do not think that our strength and conditioning coach can be blamed for this for two reasons. On one account, it has long been said that our office season conditioning in training camps or one of the toughest around from not only our players but those who join our team from other teams. I think this is no coincidence in this is been a hallmark of the Harbaugh era. I think that when training camp starts the coaches as well as the strength and conditioning coach do all they can to make sure that these players muscles, joints, and ligatures are strong and healthy as they can be.

The second reason I cannot blame it is also the most obvious in my mind. If this were something that were a team epidemic I would understand the logic behind blaming him. That said, when I look at the players that are injured they tend to be the same people over and over again. Campanaro has had injury problems dating back to his days at Wake Forest, so this is not exactly a new phenomenon. Looking at Webb, this is old hat as far as his injuries are going. It started with one, then led to another come out and then in my opinion his muscles were over compensating and leads to the back issues. I also think that looking at Jernigan his injury history has been less than pristine. Now if you look at players that are off and healthy and have been their entire career how often do they get injured? Look at Joe Flacco, marshal Yanda, Justin Forsett and so on all of these players have been healthy for the majority of their careers and continue to be so. Now another thing to take into account is what condition these players put themselves in the offseason. Terrell Suggs came into camp out of shape and admittedly was not at fighting weight, he did not make it through the first game. Courtney Upshaw is never in shape and and generally speaking does not make much contribution to the team other than setting an edge, which that aspect of his game has been declining anyway. Timmy Jernigan is the only outlier to this is by all accounts is off season conditioning was very rigorous, however, he does have an injury history.

I think was looking at our injuries these are not new occurrences. As far as I can tell it is the same players, with injuries in the same general vicinity. I did not think I can in good conscience claim our strength and conditioning coach for that.

[The Mom Gene]

ACL injuries are league-wide...  and moreso since the secondary players have had to alter their defensive approach to receivers.  It's very difficult for them to defend now.  It's been discussed on NFLN and ESPN ad-nauseam.

[Tru11]

are we seriously going to make a thread for everyone in the ravens organisation to be fired?

[Cillmatic]

Idk, I DO know that we should lose our current secondary coach. Hire West Virginia's Brian Mitchell, he's a very good coach.

[rmcjacket23]

then why do they hire and pay a hefty salary to strength and conditioning coaches?

For the same reason people go to the gym and hire personal trainers and then can't understand why they don't get jacked and lose weight...

 

They are coaches, not babysitters. 

[GrimCoconut]

then why do they hire and pay a hefty salary to strength and conditioning coaches?

They can't monitor a player every minute. What a player puts in their body and does on their own time makes a big impact. In the Army in our basic training, the drill sergeant makes "recommendations" but even they can't enforce what we eat or do on our own time. They encourage us to exercise recreationally. Perhaps this same example applies to the team?