[News] What You Missed vs. Browns

[Ravensfansince03]

Just start Brooks over Lewis already. We're 1-4...

 

Unfortunately I don't even think that Brooks is better than Lewis in coverage

[Ravensfansince03]

Honest hard-nose competitive NFL football no longer exists in Baltimore. Time to reset team and particularly management.

 

Especially on the defense side. Ozzie and the crew didn't do a good job of keeping the staff that made this defense great. Were dealing with new scouts, coaches, etc

[spitfire418]

Unfortunately I don't even think that Brooks is better than Lewis in coverage

You never know until you see it. He would at least add much needed speed and tackling to the secondary. Plus I think since we're 1-4 with several injuries that we should play guys like Terrence Brooks, Arthur Brown, Tray Walker, etc.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

That Aiken play sums up the passing game in the second half pretty darn well... whenever someone was open, the pass rush was getting massive pressure on Flacco, whenever Flacco had time there was nobody getting open.

On that specific play, it was entirely Joe's fault. After faking the handoff he continued to step back - right into the rush. We didn't do a great job blocking it, but the rusher was forced wide... If Joe had simply sensed the pressure and stepped up in the pocket he would have been completely clean with a TON of time.

Joe's been doing it all season. When he feels pressure hes been retreating backward instead of climbing the pocket. Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Rivers, Manning, Big Ben all would have likely avoided that rush.

Literally one step forward and he's clean. The line did a decent job of creating a pocket for Joe but he retreated out of it. He's got to improve here

[Ravensfansince03]

You never know until you see it. He would at least add much needed speed and tackling to the secondary. Plus I think since we're 1-4 with several injuries that we should play guys like Terrence Brooks, Arthur Brown, Tray Walker, etc.

 

You make a good point about giving our players in the shadows more playing time to see what they can do. But as for right now, while they're still trying to make a shot for the playoffs, they're going to keep in the starters. Tray Walker looked kind of lost last time I saw him play though. And Terrence Brooks has been kind of injury prone. Regardless I would like to see who wants to be a Raven and who doesn't.

[Crusader]

You make a good point about giving our players in the shadows more playing time to see what they can do. But as for right now, while they're still trying to make a shot for the playoffs, they're going to keep in the starters. Tray Walker looked kind of lost last time I saw him play though. And Terrence Brooks has been kind of injury prone. Regardless I would like to see who wants to be a Raven and who doesn't.

PLAYOFFS! Your funny. Some of these guys are so lost they get lucky to make the flight to the game!

[BigUgly]

Nice "Lookout" block by Monroe in that final shot in the 4Q. Also, Zuttah got manhandled (again) all game. When the Ravens get a high draft pick, and if a legit stud left tackle is available, they should nab him to lock down the left side of the line for the rest of Joe's career.

[steelraven]

On that specific play, it was entirely Joe's fault. After faking the handoff he continued to step back - right into the rush. We didn't do a great job blocking it, but the rusher was forced wide... If Joe had simply sensed the pressure and stepped up in the pocket he would have been completely clean with a TON of time.

Joe's been doing it all season. When he feels pressure hes been retreating backward instead of climbing the pocket. Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Rivers, Manning, Big Ben all would have likely avoided that rush.

Literally one step forward and he's clean. The line did a decent job of creating a pocket for Joe but he retreated out of it. He's got to improve here

I definitely agree. At some point Joe has to take control of the offense instead of running it. He doesn't make any adjustments, never uses hand signal to his WR to change a route when he see the defenses blitzing, It's like I said before, he's a robot. He gets the play from the sideline and runs it no matter what. That's not a 100 million dollar QB, that's a rookie. What people need to understand, this defense will never be what it use to be. Ravens lost that game because of the offense. You can't get into the redzone and not score TD's. Ravens have had trouble scoring in the redzone since Boldin was traded. At some point fingers need to be pointed at Flacco. He's getting paid all that money to turn chicken poop into chicken salad, I don't want to hear about his WR, it's his job to turn his WR into superstars. 

[Puntit]

Anyone saying it's at all about the offense when the team is already scoring 30 points a game just doesn't understand football. A good defense can protect a 3 point lead. The top teams in the league dont really need to score more than two touchdowns to win a game. If you are upset that Flacco couldn't extend a 30 point lead, you are basically trying to win a foot race with one leg and saying, well, if only we hopped faster we'd have a shot.

The season is likely over. The only teams on our schedule we now realistically stack up against are SF, Jacksonville and Miami, and all of them are frankly, better than Cleveland. So i dont have high hopes. Let's try out the young guys and see what we've got, and hope to pick in the top ten next year after we put together the 3-4 win season I'm unfortunately anticipating.

[callahan09]

I definitely agree. At some point Joe has to take control of the offense instead of running it. He doesn't make any adjustments, never uses hand signal to his WR to change a route when he see the defenses blitzing, It's like I said before, he's a robot. He gets the play from the sideline and runs it no matter what. That's not a 100 million dollar QB, that's a rookie. What people need to understand, this defense will never be what it use to be. Ravens lost that game because of the offense. You can't get into the redzone and not score TD's. Ravens have had trouble scoring in the redzone since Boldin was traded. At some point fingers need to be pointed at Flacco. He's getting paid all that money to turn chicken poop into chicken salad, I don't want to hear about his WR, it's his job to turn his WR into superstars. 

You can't turn a WR into a superstar.  You can't turn "chicken poop into chicken salad".  The offense is a system that has a lot of moving parts, and all 11 players on the field contribute to how it runs on every play.  To say that it's the QB's job to turn WRs into superstars completely ignores the fact that WRs are players with their own skills and abilities, and that they they have control over their own destiny as playmakers.  WRs aren't made into superstars by their QBs.  That is such an atrocious and silly argument that I am so sick of seeing.  It totally discounts the WR himself, and makes it as if any old roleplayer would be a superstar if they had been asked to replace Calvin Johnson in Detroit, for instance, because it's obviously Stafford who makes Johnson look good, and has nothing to do with Johnson's own ability.  Right.  The fact is, a WR has to make himself a superstar.

[callahan09]

On that specific play, it was entirely Joe's fault. After faking the handoff he continued to step back - right into the rush. We didn't do a great job blocking it, but the rusher was forced wide... If Joe had simply sensed the pressure and stepped up in the pocket he would have been completely clean with a TON of time.

Joe's been doing it all season. When he feels pressure hes been retreating backward instead of climbing the pocket. Brady, Rodgers, Romo, Rivers, Manning, Big Ben all would have likely avoided that rush.

Literally one step forward and he's clean. The line did a decent job of creating a pocket for Joe but he retreated out of it. He's got to improve here

You can't say that it's entirely the QB's fault because he didn't avoid a free pass rusher in his face.  Sometimes QBs can avoid a free pass rusher in their face, but no QB avoids it every time.  Sometimes when you try to avoid it, you end up fumbling the ball.  We just saw Aaron Rodgers fumble the ball in in his previous game trying to do that.  In this particularly situation, it's more important to NOT take a sack, not risk the fumble, get rid of the ball, and live to kick the field goal, because without the field goal, we lose the game right then and there.  I'm not sure where he was supposed to step up anyway.  Like I said he could have maybe tried to evade him, but there was still nobody there to block him, he was not going to get picked up by the pocket, he was just going to come right back around from behind him if he sidestepped him, and then he probably gets strip-sacked.  And then you'd be yelling about how stupid Flacco is for not throwing away the football because we really just needed to keep ball security there and kick a field goal at the worst.

[Gorgee3]

What we missed was Joe Stepping up in the pocket literally. He could've maneuvered away from the pass rush. Not only that but Joe should run if needed. He's big and tall cmon. Last but not least I've seen Flacco worried about the cameras more. Worry about the game and your team for god sakes.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Anyone saying it's at all about the offense when the team is already scoring 30 points a game just doesn't understand football. A good defense can protect a 3 point lead. The top teams in the league dont really need to score more than two touchdowns to win a game. If you are upset that Flacco couldn't extend a 30 point lead, you are basically trying to win a foot race with one leg and saying, well, if only we hopped faster we'd have a shot.

The season is likely over. The only teams on our schedule we now realistically stack up against are SF, Jacksonville and Miami, and all of them are frankly, better than Cleveland. So i dont have high hopes. Let's try out the young guys and see what we've got, and hope to pick in the top ten next year after we put together the 3-4 win season I'm unfortunately anticipating.

 

If the other teams offense, which is worse than ours can put up 33 points then no, 30 isnt good enough for ours... especially when the defense we're going up against is statistically the worst in the league - even worse than ours.

 

Even more so when you miss field goals bc of stupid penalties pushing it further back, and not getting into the end zone when you're 1st and goal from the 5. It's not an absolute thing. Sure 30 points sounds good enough. But when the offense should have easily put up 37, and 37 would have won the game, then no in that case 30 isnt good enough.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

You can't say that it's entirely the QB's fault because he didn't avoid a free pass rusher in his face.  Sometimes QBs can avoid a free pass rusher in their face, but no QB avoids it every time.  Sometimes when you try to avoid it, you end up fumbling the ball.  We just saw Aaron Rodgers fumble the ball in in his previous game trying to do that.  In this particularly situation, it's more important to NOT take a sack, not risk the fumble, get rid of the ball, and live to kick the field goal, because without the field goal, we lose the game right then and there.  I'm not sure where he was supposed to step up anyway.  Like I said he could have maybe tried to evade him, but there was still nobody there to block him, he was not going to get picked up by the pocket, he was just going to come right back around from behind him if he sidestepped him, and then he probably gets strip-sacked.  And then you'd be yelling about how stupid Flacco is for not throwing away the football because we really just needed to keep ball security there and kick a field goal at the worst.

I apologize I didnt read your whole post, because I completely disagree with the whole premise. Joe didnt have a pass rusher "in his face" as you put it... he had a pass rusher that was forced wide and behind him if he stood tall or stepped up in the pocket like hes supposed to.

 

The pass rusher became "in his face" because he backed up into the rush. That's like saying a receiver runs the wrong route and you blame the QB for an inaccurate throw. The QB threw to the right spot, the receiver just wasnt where he was supposed to be. Wagner pushed his guy beyond the pocket, Joe just backed up right out of the clean pocket that was created for him. 

 

That pocket was empty and clean, Joe simply panicked and bailed.

Edited October 14, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

In the video regarding Aiken being open in the endzone I cannot believe I watched Juice run right by the DE and not even touch him to knock him off balance; inexcusable to allow that to happen. He actually ran around the guy instead of trying to knock him down and let him run right at Joe and forced Joe to throw off his back foot. Come on Juice, you're better than that man

 

That said, Joe could have done a much better job trying to elude the defensive player; instead of back peddling a pump fake and roll out to the right would have bought him another 2-3 seconds and he might of had a chance to get the ball to Aiken.

Edited October 14, 2015 by ibleedpurpleandblack

[callahan09]

I apologize I didnt read your whole post, because I completely disagree with the whole premise. Joe didnt have a pass rusher "in his face" as you put it... he had a pass rusher that was forced wide and behind him if he stood tall or stepped up in the pocket like hes supposed to.

 

The pass rusher became "in his face" because he backed up into the rush. That's like saying a receiver runs the wrong route and you blame the QB for an inaccurate throw. The QB threw to the right spot, the receiver just wasnt where he was supposed to be. Wagner pushed his guy beyond the pocket, Joe just backed up right out of the clean pocket that was created for him. 

 

That pocket was empty and clean, Joe simply panicked and bailed.

This is an absolutely astonishing conclusion to me.  Joe play faked to the left, and then he rolls out and to the right.  He didn't know there was a free rusher coming through because his back was to that side of the field while play faking left.  By the time he gets to his roll-out in the other direction, that's when he sees the defender coming right at him, unblocked, and with blocker anywhere on the field to pick him up even if he did evade him once.  He evades him once, there's a good chance the defender just comes up on him from behind.  It's not like once Joe moves a little bit out of the defender's trajectory that the defender just disappears or falls on his face or something, he's going to adjust and keep pursuit because there was no-one to pick up the block.  Joe decided that it was essentially a lost play with the pass rusher coming straight for him and so he back-pedaled and threw the ball away to Aiken's direction.  It is a judgment call to decide that the play is dead and to throw it away to live for the field goal, or to think "Hey, maybe I can evade this guy" and try to hold onto the ball an extra couple of seconds.  The problem with your judgment of him is that first of all, it's not always an easy decision in the moment with a pass rusher coming right at you with no-one to block him, and second, he did choose the SAFEST play, because choosing to try to evade the pass rusher and hold onto the football opens him up to being sacked anyway, and especially a higher chance of it being a strip-sack because he's opening the hit up to come at him from behind and potentially while he might be loading up to throw the ball.  If he'd done that and been stripped of the football, then we don't get the field goal and we lose the game then and there.  You cant just say he didn't have a pass rusher in his face because some QBs, under some situations, SOMETIMES evade such a pass rusher.  The pass rusher was coming right at him unblocked.  That's literally what happened.  He chose to throw the ball away rather than risk a turnover.  That's not a bad football decision or play on his part.  It's the safe one.

[Eckenrodetovictory]

Not sure if anybody mentioned this, but the play where Aiken was open in the endzone, Boyle was wide open in the middle of the field. Of course it looks like Joe may have had to thrown it before he broke free, but there was nobody within 5 yards. A straight walk into the endzone.

[callahan09]

Not sure if anybody mentioned this, but the play where Aiken was open in the endzone, Boyle was wide open in the middle of the field. Of course it looks like Joe may have had to thrown it before he broke free, but there was nobody within 5 yards. A straight walk into the endzone.

He came open after Joe was already in the process of the throwing the ball away.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

I also don't understand why Ozzie gives some players big contracts when they've had injuries in the past or drafts players who were injured in college (probably because they were cheaper "value") To sum it up, I could've done a better job than Oz/ Scouting department on whether we should've drafted injury- prone Perriman- I found this article and I can't believe what I read:"I remember at an older age, my knees would just give out just walking in random places like in the mall or something," Perriman said. "And everybody would be like, 'Boy, what's wrong with you?'"http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/ucf-knights/os-ucf-breshad-perriman-nfl-draft-0430-20150429-story.htmlIf Perriman's knees give out when he was younger and just walking around the mall, then what makes Oz think that he's going to be able to survive a 16 game season? Let's do some homework, boys.

Because homework would tell you that it's a childhood disorder that doesn't continue into adulthood.

And he wasn't injury prone in college.

Soooooo.... was that your basis for being able to do a better job than our FO?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

This is an absolutely astonishing conclusion to me. Joe play faked to the left, and then he rolls out and to the right. He didn't know there was a free rusher coming through because his back was to that side of the field while play faking left. By the time he gets to his roll-out in the other direction, that's when he sees the defender coming right at him, unblocked, and with blocker anywhere on the field to pick him up even if he did evade him once. He evades him once, there's a good chance the defender just comes up on him from behind. It's not like once Joe moves a little bit out of the defender's trajectory that the defender just disappears or falls on his face or something, he's going to adjust and keep pursuit because there was no-one to pick up the block. Joe decided that it was essentially a lost play with the pass rusher coming straight for him and so he back-pedaled and threw the ball away to Aiken's direction. It is a judgment call to decide that the play is dead and to throw it away to live for the field goal, or to think "Hey, maybe I can evade this guy" and try to hold onto the ball an extra couple of seconds. The problem with your judgment of him is that first of all, it's not always an easy decision in the moment with a pass rusher coming right at you with no-one to block him, and second, he did choose the SAFEST play, because choosing to try to evade the pass rusher and hold onto the football opens him up to being sacked anyway, and especially a higher chance of it being a strip-sack because he's opening the hit up to come at him from behind and potentially while he might be loading up to throw the ball. If he'd done that and been stripped of the football, then we don't get the field goal and we lose the game then and there. You cant just say he didn't have a pass rusher in his face because some QBs, under some situations, SOMETIMES evade such a pass rusher. The pass rusher was coming right at him unblocked. That's literally what happened. He chose to throw the ball away rather than risk a turnover. That's not a bad football decision or play on his part. It's the safe one.

Just rewatched again to make sure we're seeing

the same thing.

After the fake, Joe turns to face the field and the rusher is clearly in his line of sight after one step. He continues to take 3 additional steps backward... Not rolling out... Which puts him directly in the rushers angle of pursuit.

If instead of backing up he plants and steps forward the rushers momentum would have carried him beyond Joe a good 3-4 steps giving him plenty of time to find Aiken.

On the rusher recovering, if you watch again, Monroe flattens his man and then turns to the backfield. This is about 2 steps prior to Joe feeling the pressure. If Joe had stepped up Monroe would have had PLENTY of time to engage the rusher before he got anywhere close to Joe.

Sure maybe he then beats Monroe and continues his pursuit of Joe, but at that point we're talking probably 6-7 seconds of clean pocket for Joe. If he hadn't thrown a TD or walked in to the endzone at that point then we've got a whole new issue entirely.

Joe saw the rusher at least 3-4 steps before contact. It wasn't bang bang by any means. He retreated away from the pressure instead of stepping up and past it like you're supposed to. A man that big isn't changing direction on a dime so at the very least is buys him another second or 2 to deliver a clean ball, or most likely allows a lineman (Monroe) to block the free rusher and keep the pocket completely clean.

You can argue this one, but there have been a dozen just like it where Joe retreats and then throws weak inaccurate passes off his back foot while backing up instead of stepping up, buying a second or two and delivering a strike like the top QBs routinely do.

[steelraven]

You can't turn a WR into a superstar.  You can't turn "chicken poop into chicken salad".  The offense is a system that has a lot of moving parts, and all 11 players on the field contribute to how it runs on every play.  To say that it's the QB's job to turn WRs into superstars completely ignores the fact that WRs are players with their own skills and abilities, and that they they have control over their own destiny as playmakers.  WRs aren't made into superstars by their QBs.  That is such an atrocious and silly argument that I am so sick of seeing.  It totally discounts the WR himself, and makes it as if any old roleplayer would be a superstar if they had been asked to replace Calvin Johnson in Detroit, for instance, because it's obviously Stafford who makes Johnson look good, and has nothing to do with Johnson's own ability.  Right.  The fact is, a WR has to make himself a superstar.

How is Ben, Rodgers & Brady doing it then? No WR or TE was a 1st rd pick. A bunch of 2nd, 4th, 6th & 7th rounders. 

[callahan09]

How is Ben, Rodgers & Brady doing it then? No WR or TE was a 1st rd pick. A bunch of 2nd, 4th, 6th & 7th rounders. 

 

They aren't "doing it".  Those guys just happen to be playing well by their own capability.  Just because a player wasn't a 1st round pick doesn't mean he can't be a good player.  And also a good deal of it is coaching and offensive system, but not the QB who makes the receiver.  Do you really think Antonio Brown or Gronk or Randall Cobb wouldn't be any good if they were playing in the same system but had the backup QB throwing to them?