[News] Eisenberg: How Did Ravens Get Here?

[riseNConquer81]

Thanks for the read. Both D tackles on NE were not starters last season. Wilfork and Kelly are no longer on the NE roster. Additionally, Reavis and Browner are no longer on the roster. That's 4. Also, Harmon has been replaced by Chung as a starter. That's 5 new starters according to my math. So that's half the defensive front and half the secondary, although Chung saw a lot of PT in the past, so I'll submit that 4 starters lost is probably more accurate.

you said 5 new players, not 5 new starters, there's a difference.

Pat Chung has had two stints in New England and plenty of starts in his career, He's also listed as a Strong Safety. Harmon is listed as a Free Safety behind Devin McCourty.

 

Now let's address ability. So what you are saying is that Mosley and Smith have no ability? Williams, Guy, Jernigan, and Davis have no ability? Upshaw, Jimmy Smith, Will Hill, and Lewis have no ability? Really? That's why we can't stop anyone? That's your opinion and I certainly respect that. But I respectfully disagree with your assessment based on Pees' track record here in Baltimore, which is not good. Simple as that.

*sigh* i hate it when people do this.

"alright cool, im going to point out the very few bright spots on the dfense and act like he was talking about those guys and then pretend he said nobody had any ability."

...do we really have to go through these motions?

You need 11 men to field a defense, Mosley and SMith cant do everything themselves.

Lawrence Guy is a career backup.

Jernigan has slid down the depth chart in case you didnt notice. he's getting beat by a rookie.

Upshaw is a two down edge controller.

Kendrick Lewis is average a best, that's why he's here in the first place.

There's nobody on this list that you're going to say (with a straight face) is comparable to or better than Devin McCourty, Donte Hightower, Jerod Mayo, Jamie COllins, Chandler Jones, Rob NInkovich, and Dom Easley unless you just dont watch football.

Pees track record here in baltimore is a 12th ranked defense, an 8th ranked defense (despite an awful secondary) and a superbowl victory. how is that "not good?"

 

I don't buy the preseason argument either. The starters played plenty and weren't consistent, and our reserves are playing against their reserves and the scheme just didn't work. That's just my opinion and seems to be the opinion of plenty of folks here in Ravens Nation as well as in the national media.

you can ignore facts all you like if that makes you feel better, but they're still facts.

there's a 90 man roster in preseason. Half of the guys you watched play back then arent even on a roster right now. the other half had injuries they were dealing with and consequently didnt play, and others just saw limited action. There was no scheme. nobody schemes for preseason games. And nobody in national media has expressed any such nonsensical ideas. Preseason is irrelevant, youre reaching.

 

And with regards to Belichick, he's the head coach. And is known for being very involved in overall scheme and working with the coordinators, not to mention is a very experienced defensive coach who let Pees go (and let him go with good reason). I believe the quote from NBC Sports mentions the fact that, while Pees' defensive units ranked in the top 10 overall in his tenure there, they continued a trend of coming up short in big games.

thats nice, but he's still not calling the defense.

and Belichick didnt let anyone go, Pees left New England on his own volition.

what is "the quote?" where? and since when is NBC sports judge and jury, even if this quote does exist?

 

If a HC is not ultimately responsible for those who work for him...i.e., OC and DC, then what is the HC's job?

i think you need to prove there's something to take responsibility for, before this question even matters. you havent offered any good reason why somebody should fire pees; just a lot of meaningless rhetorical questions.

all that aside: The Pats played Brandon Weeden an Terrance williams last week. The Jags, the steelers with half their offense suspended, and the Bills to whom they surrendered 32 points.

Despite all those weak offenses, they're still only middle of the road as a defense. when they're done playing against JV squads, the numbers will take a precipitous drop.

You're envying a defense that really hasnt done anything but get lucky so far. Anybody can look good when they play somebody worse than them.

look at what our offense (which is by no means even sufficent, let alone good) did to the last ranked pass and rush defenses.

Edited October 13, 2015 by riseNConquer81

[balfan23]

I think there is one issue conspicuously absent from the article: failures in coaching/player development. John cites "untimely penalties" and draft picks not not playing to expectation. Some of that has to lie at the feet of the coaching staff.

[EvilWayz]

Like I said when during Free Agency, It's hard to go shopping when you have no money. We couldn't get a player with some major value if we wanted to. Then we let go a lot of guys, trying to get some money to fill the same positions we're letting guys go from. The draft hasn't been very good to us either. Making picks on guys that cant even make it through training camp. The guys upstairs has to be looking at this going this is not good. We need to make a change somewhere. I think one is coming and its going to start with Dean Pees. I love John Harbaugh, but I'm wondering if he has gotten in Pees ear about his play calling. or in the players ear about their effort and heart. The guys have got to come together as a team, as unit, as Baltimore Ravens. They have to go out and take their respect back, because teams are not afraid of us anymore. Like Ray use to say You play fast physical and pissed off. I don't know if we that now. Some body needs to find that passion and light one major spark under this team.

[Crusader]

How about waiting until Perriman actually plays a game before putting him in the same category as Elam?

I bet you Perriman does not make it to the bye next year without getting hurt. Even if the bye is the third game. This kid is a high speed fiberglass car. He should never be allowed to stand in Steve Smith shadow. I blame how I feel about him on John and his petty games he played.

[BillyD]

you said 5 new players, not 5 new starters.

Pat Chung has had two stints in New England and plenty of starts in his career, He's also listed as a Strong Safety. Harmon is listed as a Free Safety behind Devin McCourty.

*sigh* i hate it when people do this.

"alright cool, im going to point out the very few bright spots on the dfense and act like he was talking about those guys and then pretend he said nobody had any ability."

...do we really have to go through these motions?

You need 11 men to field a defense, Mosley and SMith cant do everything themselves.

Lawrence Guy is a career backup.

Jernigan has slid down the depth chart in case you didnt notice. he's getting beat by a rookie.

Upshaw is a two down edge controller.

Kendrick Lewis is average a best, that's why he's here in the first place.

There's nobody on this list that you're going to say (with a straight face) is comparable to or better than Devin McCourty, Donte Hightower, Jerod Mayo, Jamie COllins, Chandler Jones, Rob NInkovich, and Dom Easley unless you just dont watch football.

Pees track record here in baltimore is a 12th ranked defense, an 8th ranked defense (despite an awful secondary) and a superbowl victory. how is that "not good?"

you can ignore facts all you like if that makes you feel better, but they're still facts.

there's a 90 man roster in preseason. Half of the guys you watched play back then arent even on a roster right now. the other half had injuries they were dealing with and consequently didnt play, and others just saw limited action. There was no scheme. nobody schemes for preseason games. And nobody in national media has expressed any such nonsensical ideas. Preseason is irrelevant, youre reaching.

thats nice, but he's still not calling the defense.

and Belichick didnt let anyone go, Pees left New England on his own volition.

what is "the quote?" where? and since when is NBC sports judge and jury, even if this quote does exist?

i think you need to prove there's something to take responsibility for, before this question even matters. you havent offered any good reason why somebody should fire pees; just a lot of meaningless rhetorical questions.

all that aside: The Pats played Brandon Weeden an Terrance williams last week. The Jags, the steelers with half their offense suspended, and the Bills to whom they surrendered 32 points.

Despite all those weak offenses, they're still only middle of the road as a defense. when they're done playing against JV squads, the numbers will take a precipitous drop.

You're envying a defense that really hasnt done anything but get lucky so far. Anybody can look good when they play somebody worse than them.

look at what our offense (which is by no means even sufficent, let alone good) did to the last ranked pass and rush defenses.

Hey, we can agree to disagree. And yes, I said 5 new players.  Players...starters...it's a different unit.  And folks were questioning allowing Browner, Reavis, and Wilfork to walk.  My point is it hasn't affected them in the least.  We lost one starter.  McPhee wasn't a starter, but a solid role player, no doubt.  But still, the point is we began the season with essentially the same roster as last season, and it hasn't improved.

 

The quote from NBC Sports can be found at :  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/14/patriots-fire-defensive-coordinator/

 

Now, an hour later NE made a statement saying Pees stepped down.  That can be found in this article:  http://www.patspulpit.com/2010/1/14/1251972/time-for-a-house-cleaning-patriots

 

Notice the reasoning in the second article as to why:

 

1)  Inability to develop talent

2)  Late game collapses

 

Did the Patriots cut Pees some slack, tell him they were letting him go or weren't going to renew his contract and give him the opportunity to step down?  Who knows?  But the trend of blowing leads in games and getting out-coached is pretty apparent.  Those defenses ranked high as well, but lost games in big spots.  Just like the Ravens have done under Pees.

 

And Belichick, well, enough with that talk.  Does he call the plays?  Generally I would think not, but I don't know. I'm not following him and Patricia on the sidelines to see what they are discussing during the game.

 

I respect your opinions and you obviously are not only a fan but very knowledgeable about the game.  So let's go ahead and throw out the preseason.  Let's talk about these first 5 games.  What are your thoughts?  It hasn't gotten any better.  Yeah, there have been injuries, but we have been getting burned all season. So it can't just be that.  For that matter, the injury bug has hit us before and we have survived:  http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/9/28/9406691/pees-should-be-fired

 

I tend to disagree with your thoughts on Guy. Yes, he's been a back up. Since stepping into a starting role he has 2 sacks and 22 tackles in 2 games.  These other guys do have talent.  It's the coaches job to instill discipline and install a scheme that works with the talent available.

 

IMO, Pees almost lost that SB.  So he gets no credit in my book.

 

Look, I enjoy the banter and definitely respect your opinion. I just have my own opinion and I'm not just speaking off the cuff. My opinions are based in what I see and my own experience. 

 

All that being said I'm sure we can agree that, ugly or not, we're both going to be watching Sunday rooting for the Black and Purple.  Let's hope in the long run, they either rebuild or find a way to fix the problems.  Either way you look at it, your opinion or mine, there's no easy quick fix. 

[JamesA119]

I agree with most of the points in the article, but he (intentionally) left out one of the most important one; The highest paid Raven Joe Flacco is an underachiever. It is clear to me that he is not a student of the game. He appears to put in just the minimal amount of time needed for film study. He is an expert at backyard football (that's where he excels) however he is not interested in mastering the intricacies of the mastery of the game. Playing in his 8th season, he still cannot read complex defensive alignments. This can allow him to put his players where they can win the match ups. A great QB does not need Calvin Johnson, A. J. Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant etc. Brady only played with 1 hall of fame QB - Randy Moss, and Moss had just flopped in Oakland before resurrecting his career in New England - what a coincidence!

Flacco has the authority to change 100% of the calls pre-snap. He isn't taking advantage of that because he isn't up to par. All the Ints these season were not the WRs fault.

Why am I saying all these? Not that I am interested in bashing anyone, but because I believe that Coach Harbaugh has the will and know how to fix this team's multiple issues, but he can't change who Flacco is. The defense will be back, great WRs will come, but Flacco may not change. If he doesn't change, our hopes will continue to get dashed. He rode the back of the best defense ever, and consequently didn't go through the fire. He progressed at a very comfortable pace.

[Drew P]

Bad drafting, and not giving Joe some help on offense. Losing Kubiak was huge too. Trading down in drafts to get more picks hasn't worked. I rather get a stud player than 2 average players. You look at what Joe has to work with and you wonder why we are 1-4? his best receiver is retiring and the others cant get open if my grandma is the corner. When they did give him something he won a Super Bowl could of won 2. We get rid of Boldin and Torrey and expect M.Brown and Aiken to be your guys? Brady or Rodgers couldn't throw 100 yards with these guys. They keep bringing in guys who have been cut from other teams and we expect them to be strong starters for us, why do u think the other teams let them go? you might get lucky one in a hundred but most likely not. To many bad decisions and bad talent evaluation. When Browns and Raiders score over 30 points folks stop sugar coating things, these team needs a 2 or 3 year rebuild

 

What's your grandma's forty time?

[Crusader]

If Joe had three Jerry Rices type wide receivers and two Gronkowski's on this team do you think that will improve the DEFENSE? COME ON MAN!

[bozo]

cut pita, do not give all the money to flacco, tucker is a must go into free agencey for a who new secondary.

[JamesA119]

"If Joe had three Jerry Rices type wide receivers and two Gronkowski's on this team do you think that will improve the DEFENSE? COME ON MAN!"

Defense is not the only problem on this team. For a long time the defense held the Browns 3 points. We had many opportunities to go 21-3. Then on the final drive of regulation we needed a TD . We were 1st and goal on the 9 yd line after Justin Forssette's run but only got a field goal. Do you guys ever hold the offense especially Flacco to any type of responsibility?

To answer your question; 3 Jerry Rices, and Gronkowski would not change who Flacco is.

[ReginaldColeman1]

How did the Ravens get here? Pratt Street. On a similar subject of how the Ravens will get away from here just now on NFL Fantasy Live TV the moderator predicts the Bears are looking to trade Golden Tate. Anyone in Baltimore listening? R U There?

[Arch Mage]

We saw what thin ice we were on in the preseason when the 2's and 3's lost most of their battles. Even John H pointed that out. So for us, injuries were expected to be a BIG problem.

How anyone could have picked us to excel with no receivers ( first year receivers have about, what, a 1 in 10 chance of really making a difference?) other than Smith Sr, is a mystery to me. The cap space issue is interesting and sad.

And I wonder if we have too many "nice" guys on the team now after this many years of John H input on the drafts. Maybe Ozzie has changed?

[Arch Mage]

Yeah that 21 mill in dead money has really been the elephant in the room. Also I know Pita is a great guy and a good player BUT why did Ozzie sign him with a major hip concern ? Penalties are a killer and needs to be cleaned up. Fine the players John or make them to extra work SOMETHING ! On a brighter side Ravens are favorite again , been favorites 5 out of 6 games a sign that even Vegas thinks the Ravens are a good team , but have just been snake bitten.

Vegas sets the spread to make money, not because of what they, themselves, think of a team.  The spread is based on what they think the uninformed expect.  Vegas thinks that we will think the Ravens are a good team.  Then they make money as reality happens.

[Arch Mage]

Even tho we lost 4 out of 5 games we could easily be 5-0 with a mediocre wide receiver core and a shaky defense. We just need to fix the minor things and go out and play 4 quarters of football. I have faith in my home team. #GORAVENS

If Vick played against us as he did last night, we could be 0-5.  If Pittsburgh has the kicker they had last night, against us we would be 0-5.  I love the Ravens, but there are no leaders on this team, and I think it is because of a change in philosophy in the draft room.  When we have to get a Boldin or a Smith from some other team to provide the fire, that should tell us something.  It took John H a while to learn to live with Ray and Ed; I wonder if we would have drafted them with a John H as coach.

[wgrebe]

All true and well thought out. Inasmuch as the dead cap money is a big issue so is the relative lack of productivity in drafts. In Sunday's game, 10 starters were drafted by the Ravens since 2008. The team is not finding as many quality mid round picks, or in case they do, can't afford to sign them (McPhee, Kruger). Whiffing way too much at top of draft..Oher, Kindle, Cody.

[riseNConquer81]

Hey, we can agree to disagree. And yes, I said 5 new players.  Players...starters...it's a different unit.  And folks were questioning allowing Browner, Reavis, and Wilfork to walk.  My point is it hasn't affected them in the least.  We lost one starter.  McPhee wasn't a starter, but a solid role player, no doubt.  But still, the point is we began the season with essentially the same roster as last season, and it hasn't improved.

 

The quote from NBC Sports can be found at :  http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/14/patriots-fire-defensive-coordinator/

 

Now, an hour later NE made a statement saying Pees stepped down.  That can be found in this article:  http://www.patspulpit.com/2010/1/14/1251972/time-for-a-house-cleaning-patriots

 

Notice the reasoning in the second article as to why:

 

1)  Inability to develop talent

2)  Late game collapses

 

Did the Patriots cut Pees some slack, tell him they were letting him go or weren't going to renew his contract and give him the opportunity to step down?  Who knows?  But the trend of blowing leads in games and getting out-coached is pretty apparent.  Those defenses ranked high as well, but lost games in big spots.  Just like the Ravens have done under Pees.

 

And Belichick, well, enough with that talk.  Does he call the plays?  Generally I would think not, but I don't know. I'm not following him and Patricia on the sidelines to see what they are discussing during the game.

 

I respect your opinions and you obviously are not only a fan but very knowledgeable about the game.  So let's go ahead and throw out the preseason.  Let's talk about these first 5 games.  What are your thoughts?  It hasn't gotten any better.  Yeah, there have been injuries, but we have been getting burned all season. So it can't just be that.  For that matter, the injury bug has hit us before and we have survived:  http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2015/9/28/9406691/pees-should-be-fired

 

I tend to disagree with your thoughts on Guy. Yes, he's been a back up. Since stepping into a starting role he has 2 sacks and 22 tackles in 2 games.  These other guys do have talent.  It's the coaches job to instill discipline and install a scheme that works with the talent available.

 

IMO, Pees almost lost that SB.  So he gets no credit in my book.

 

Look, I enjoy the banter and definitely respect your opinion. I just have my own opinion and I'm not just speaking off the cuff. My opinions are based in what I see and my own experience. 

 

All that being said I'm sure we can agree that, ugly or not, we're both going to be watching Sunday rooting for the Black and Purple.  Let's hope in the long run, they either rebuild or find a way to fix the problems.  Either way you look at it, your opinion or mine, there's no easy quick fix.

except its not. its the same unit, just minus 4 guys. thats completely different from saying 5 new guys nobody on that team had met before signed on as starters. depth chart promotes know the scheme, the vocab, each other, they're familiar with the coaches and the game plans...the learning curve is eliminated and

as i pointed out before, that's an extremely premature assessment when they havent played but four games against crippled teams and basement dwellers. only reason mcphee didnt start (thats not even entirely true, cuz we moved him all around the line at multiple times) is because our D line was super deep once upon a time. you cant take suggs and dumervil off the field for McPhee, UNLESS one of them gets hurt.

you wanna talk about week 1 -5?

ok: week 1, we held peyton Manning's offense scoreless, no offensive TDs, they scored 12 points. i'd say we were in good shape then, but Suggs didnt make it out of course.

week 2, an emerging young QB with a cornucopia of new stud weapons takes advantage of a weakened pass rush that can no longer mask a shaky secondary

we never had a chance of standing up to the Bengals with all the offensive talent they got.

Held the steelers to 20, stopped em twice on 4th down in overtime, which aint no sure thing at all, even if Vick (who is still lpenty dangerous) is in. You saw What Leveon did to the niners last night.

and hen against the browns, dumervil got hurt, we lost two starting corners...time to stop pretending the injuries dont matter now. backin 2012 and 2014 when suggs or dumervil gets hurt, we stick in aforementioned pernell mcphee. in 2015, its Albert McClellan, who switches positions with the wind and is really only good at special teams. i mean cmon. there's just no way you look at our depth chart, especially after the injuries, and believe you can pitch anything much better than a middle of the road defense at best.

we got a lombardi for that superbowl so dont know what you mean at all there.

and Pees made NE successful. he was dealing with cancer and junk. he had the organization back him, Pees clearly left on his own volition.

everything else is upset journalists selling hypothetical spin to cover their rears after misreporting. that's it.

[riseNConquer81]

How did the Ravens get here? Pratt Street. On a similar subject of how the Ravens will get away from here just now on NFL Fantasy Live TV the moderator predicts the Bears are looking to trade Golden Tate. Anyone in Baltimore listening? R U There?

thats nice, but the bears dont own the rights to Golden Tate unfortunately.

did you mean Matt Forte or Alshon Jeffrey, or was it the Lions?

either way, we cant afford any of the three of them, so its irrelevant.

[BmoreBird22]

thats nice, but the bears dont own the rights to Golden Tate unfortunately.

did you mean Matt Forte or Alshon Jeffrey, or was it the Lions?

either way, we cant afford any of the three of them, so its irrelevant.

Can't afford Tate by trade or by cap? Because they could afford him both ways, if they wanted, but given the Ravens don't have a chance at the playoffs (at last not reasonably), they won't trade for him, in all likelihood, so it's likely not even worth fantasizing about.

[ravensdfan]

b9333, Flacco's rating is so low because he's throwing to Practice Squad WR's that the organization vastly over rated in OTA's and Training Camp. They got excited because these guys were "Catching Everything" in shorts and a jersey....with no pads.

To be fair, they were playing against OUR defense. Of course they were cathing everything and looked great! lol

 

We got here by winning a SB Pees first year, while Ray & Reed coached the players on the field and sidelines and his fat butt sat in the booth. Because we won the SB , he got to stick around and even though the defense never played up to its potential during his tenure, and the 4th quarter fails are a trend, they didn't want to look bad getting rid of a DC who so recently won them a SB.

[BillyD]

except its not. its the same unit, just minus 4 guys. thats completely different from saying 5 new guys nobody on that team had met before signed on as starters. depth chart promotes know the scheme, the vocab, each other, they're familiar with the coaches and the game plans...the learning curve is eliminated and

as i pointed out before, that's an extremely premature assessment when they havent played but four games against crippled teams and basement dwellers. only reason mcphee didnt start (thats not even entirely true, cuz we moved him all around the line at multiple times) is because our D line was super deep once upon a time. you cant take suggs and dumervil off the field for McPhee, UNLESS one of them gets hurt.

you wanna talk about week 1 -5?

ok: week 1, we held peyton Manning's offense scoreless, no offensive TDs, they scored 12 points. i'd say we were in good shape then, but Suggs didnt make it out of course.

week 2, an emerging young QB with a cornucopia of new stud weapons takes advantage of a weakened pass rush that can no longer mask a shaky secondary

we never had a chance of standing up to the Bengals with all the offensive talent they got.

Held the steelers to 20, stopped em twice on 4th down in overtime, which aint no sure thing at all, even if Vick (who is still lpenty dangerous) is in. You saw What Leveon did to the niners last night.

and hen against the browns, dumervil got hurt, we lost two starting corners...time to stop pretending the injuries dont matter now. backin 2012 and 2014 when suggs or dumervil gets hurt, we stick in aforementioned pernell mcphee. in 2015, its Albert McClellan, who switches positions with the wind and is really only good at special teams. i mean cmon. there's just no way you look at our depth chart, especially after the injuries, and believe you can pitch anything much better than a middle of the road defense at best.

we got a lombardi for that superbowl so dont know what you mean at all there.

and Pees made NE successful. he was dealing with cancer and junk. he had the organization back him, Pees clearly left on his own volition.

everything else is upset journalists selling hypothetical spin to cover their rears after misreporting. that's it.

Whatever man. You have your opinion, I have mine.

You want to talk semantics and split hairs about the 'unit'. It's clearly not the same unit, even in your own words (it's the same unit minus 4 guys). Ok, the replacement starters know the lingo, the players etc. So do ours.

You say we 'held' the vaunted Broncos out of the end zone, I say Manning hasn't looked himself yet this season and that offense is not clicking on all cylinders. That team has been leaning on its defense thus far this season.

You say Carr lit us up because he is up and coming and surrounded by weapons. I say we got out coached by a mediocre team that has not performed nearly as well in any other game outside of the Ravens game.

You say we didn't have a chance against Cincy. I say the D blew it and we were out coached (see the Bengals comments after the game about the scheme we were running and how they just took what they wanted and we just kept giving it to them. But I guess you don't follow those comments. Just what you feel are legit in your own mind).

You say we held the Steelers to 20. Talk about a Jayvee squad. Vick was atrocious and looked atrocious last night as well. We won that game because the Steelers had no kicker and their coach made some bone headed decisions in crunch time. And since you are all into specifics and semantics, the Steelers played the Chargers last night, not the Niners. And Bell did pretty much the same to them as he did to the Ravens.

And now you're going to blame the Browns game on injuries.

Pees' units have a history of softening when he has the lead. It's fact. Do the research. And the proof that there is a problem is in our current record. We're 1-4, lucky not to be 0-5, after we were expected to be playoff and potential Super Bowl contenders. The proof is in the record, which was earned prior to the injuries compounding the issues. The offense is not blameless in the struggles, but they had us up 21-9 this week, and also had late leads in pretty much every single game this season. And the same thing happens. The defense cannot hold the lead.

Like I said in the opening here. You have your opinion. I have mine. Let's leave it at that.

And I see that anyone, even legit reporters that break news an hour before the 'official' word comes out, from a team that regularly bends the truth, don't hold water in your mind because it strays from your line of thinking.

That's cool, though. I respect that. I'd love to go through life with blinders on, too. I just choose not to.

Edited October 14, 2015 by BillyD

[bmoraven]

Simple, Not playing a complete game on O, D, and ST. And Not able to Close. Coaches and Players are both to blame. It's time for an overhaul from Top to Bottom and accept the Reality that we are no longer the Lewis/Reed/Ngata/Suggs led Ravens that were able to talk the talk and walk the walk. Those guys studied more film then required, worked out all year round, the little things that make you great.. And, they forced all other Role players to elevate their game to the highest level because they were held accountable if they didn't. Who on this years team raises the Bar and forces guys to perform? If players aren't doing it, you can only blame the coaches. If we had a solid Defense, and a Great run game we would be 3-1 this year. Our WR's are not losing these games. Sure its nice to have balance on O, but we need to dominate on D, and Control the Clock with the run game. Run down a teams throat and then you open up the pass games. Teams aren't worried about our Rushing attack, so they easily shut down our WR's and TE's.

[letitgosometimes]

In chess, sometimes strategically you must give up the queen to win. Joe has got to go in order to rebuild the Ravens team within the next five years. Joe is a great player on and off the field, and teams will give up a lot for him. Time to retool or merely stay adrift.

[throwback2000]

I had no idea the Ravens are into that much with Ray Rice. I feel for him , but if that $9.5m is accurate, he should be okay. Pitta on the other hand, should be fortunate he got hurt after the deal. He is a good guy, but, the Ravens need to move on from him. He is done! Webb has to take another reduction or be released. What a cut throat business. The players are pawns. Why can't head coaches get cut without taking a financial hit. Remember B. Billick?

[BillyD]

To be fair, they were playing against OUR defense. Of course they were cathing everything and looked great! lol

We got here by winning a SB Pees first year, while Ray & Reed coached the players on the field and sidelines and his fat butt sat in the booth. Because we won the SB , he got to stick around and even though the defense never played up to its potential during his tenure, and the 4th quarter fails are a trend, they didn't want to look bad getting rid of a DC who so recently won them a SB.

Yep. Their leadership went a long way. People soon forget that it was Ray, Ed, Pollard, Boldin, that stood up to Harbs that season, said they wanted McKinney on the O line, pulled a rabbit out of a hat when SF was storming back against the Pees "bend don't break" D...people also forget that Harbs was practically forced to dump Cameron after a 3 game midseason skid. Credit the veterans in 2012 for that SB win. Alas, they are all gone and we are stuck with the real Harbs era philosophy at this point. These are now all his draft picks and trades. These are his coaches. Across the board they are not even spreading the mustard let alone cutting it. Starts at the top-philosophy, coaching, and scheme. Not good.

[OzzieBisciotti]

Regarding the draft, we're supposed to have one of the deepest scouting departments, and we don't pay third party scouting services for recommendations--- maybe we should reconsider that.

Either Oz or the scouting department needs to be turned upside down. I'm surprised Eisenhower came to terms and admitted recent top picks aren't performing or aren't on the field (Mosely could end up here after being ROY last year based upon his recent pass coverage deficiencies).

I also don't understand why Ozzie gives some players big contracts when they've had injuries in the past. To sum it up, I could've done a better job than Oz/ Scouting department on whether we should've drafted injury prone Perriman- I found this article and I can't believe what I read:

"I remember at an older age, my knees would just give out just walking in random places like in the mall or something," he said. "And everybody would be like, 'Boy, what's wrong with you?'"

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/ucf-knights/os-ucf-breshad-perriman-nfl-draft-0430-20150429-story.html

[RavensDieHard21]

-I'll tell you it easily. Cap nightmare stopped us from keeping some great talent (Torrey, whom we knew how to utilize and McPhee who played great against the run and could line up anywhere).

-Injuries on this team are some of the craziest I've ever seen. How could we get so unlucky? Suggs is still a top 5 OLB and we miss his leadership, knowledge and outstanding play on the field. SSS, Crock, and Perriman are supposed to be lighting it up but that has been squashed by the injury bug. Heck, look at how well the D looked first half, then we see Davis, Doom , and Webb leave and we absolutely fell apart.

-Stupid undisciplined penalties have crushed a lot of great things for us. Jernigan's roughing the passer in Oakland that gave them an extra 15 yards to win the game. Guy's roughing the passer against Cleveland that negated Webb's sick pick. Cincy game was atrocious. We stalled out so many offensive drives because we would either get a nice play then have it come back or we would start from 1st and 20. We had the 4th down conversion until Ko's penalty--which was suspect--then we failed to get it again.

Coaching and execution. I can't entirely blame Trestman yet because his unit has been injured, but a lot of his calls have been so predictable to even me of all people, i can imagine how players on the field are laughing pre-snap. I'm glad we finally got the run game going. Forsett and Buck are a great tandem, but then the passing game is irrelevant because we have a lack of talent, whom all love to drop open passes. I have hope that if SSS and Gilmore come back that their superior blocking and receiving will help our offense become explosive--a dream would be for a miracle to happen and to get SSS, Permian, Gilmore, Aiken, and Pitta on the field together. Defense, well Pees must go because it's blatant that he can't make adjustments to preserve leads, he can't utilize players strengths and he has taken a historic defense that still does have a lot of pieces and they cannot stop the pass to save their lives. But we fortunately are equipped for the trenches.

I pray we can turn it around and Ravens for life! With a new DC and our players healthy. I think this is a legit squad that can battle it out with anybody.

[Crusader]

How Ravens got here. Bad decisions. Ozzie is 60 years old and played 13 years as a tight end in the nfl. Back when there was no penalty for defensive receiver. Need l say more?

[Benjamin13]

Upshaw was a hit? I think he put him in the wrong section.

[law215]

How did we get here: 1.)Over drafting the positions. Drafting an ILB in round 2 one year then taking a first ILB the next is not smart when your team lacks talent at the WR and secondary positions. Also, taking 2 TE while lacking young pass rushers not to mention taking a FB with a 4th round pick. Don't get me wrong Williams, Boyle, Juice are good players, but using those picks while you have holes at other position doesn't make the team better. 2.) Under achieving players Webb, J Smith, Upshaw, Elam, Brown - too many high draft picks and big contract guys not performing. If any ONE of these players live up to draft status or contract, Ravens would be a better team. 3)Didn't value what you already had. Bolding wasn't that expensive to keep, how much extra money Ravens are spending to replace Torrey and Jacoby (Ravens don't value the WR position in a passing league - MISTAKE) 4) Injuries. Pitta, Campanero, Jernigan, Urban - good players on talent but are injured

[law215]

In chess, sometimes strategically you must give up the queen to win. Joe has got to go in order to rebuild the Ravens team within the next five years. Joe is a great player on and off the field, and teams will give up a lot for him. Time to retool or merely stay adrift.

IMO that would be ridiculous. Ravens had a dominant defense for years prior to Joe Flacco. The problem was instability at the QB position which meant few playoff appearances. Since Joe 5 Championship appearances and a Superbowl title. When you have an Superbowl MVP QB, you keep him . Your team will go no where without a durable, good QB. Joe is both.