[News] Eisenberg: How Did Ravens Get Here?

[roamingcharges]

This article would have been complete if we compared the Ravens' losses and draft busts to those of the Packers, Steelers, Patriots, Colts and Seahawks. Teams lose players due to injury. Teams whiff on draft prospects. All those issues notwithstanding this team should be at least 3 and 2 right now, period.

 

Let us stop dodging the elephant in the room: The coaching of this team is bad. They have gotten away with it for years because of superior talent on the field. Tell me, who is the weak link on that Defense? The problem is the scheme and a Defensive Coordinator that cannot make situational adjustments to prevent giving up late leads. We can dance around it all we want, we're just fooling ourselves.

Edited October 13, 2015 by roamingcharges

[January J]

Charles James and Asa Jackson also moved to the active roster.

[steelcityraven]

IDK.... I get that a lot of the high picks are producing but why not? Ozzie and company have done their due diligence before making draft picks. We can believe that. Take Elam for example... we utilized a resource (an ex-coaching connection between fla gators and Bravens) and we had an insiders assurance on Elam before we drafted him. He came here and under Pags started every game and played solid. Maybe not spectacular but very solid and in a tough position for a rookie. Pags leaves and Pees comes in and all of a sudden Elam cant play and is a bust. Heck McPhee had a great rookie year the same season with 7.5 sacks under Pags... the next year Pees comes in and McPhee is a non-factor. TCody...just the yea before looked in shape and ready to make his mark (under Pags) even made the game winning play vs the Chiefs in the playoffs to propel us in the post season... Pees comes in and the next season Cody is a bust. Chykie Brown showed a lot of promise as a big physical press CB under Pags... Pees comes in the next season and has Chykie playing opposite his strengths and what we drafted him for and has him playing (like all of our CBs) 5 yards off the WR and Chykie is a bust and quickly cut. LWebb looked like one of the top CBs in the NFL under PAGS (and I know he has had some injuries) but he is a physical CB... who we drafted for that reason. Pees comes in and tries to turn him into DSanders and make him a finesse cover guy (not what we drafted him for) and we wonder why Webb looks so inconsistent now. JSmith.... has been said to be one of the top 5 CB's in the NFL. We drafted him for his size and physicality. (We don't allow him to utilize it) and are trying to turn him into Deon and he looks lost in our defensive scheme? He hasn't looked top 50 much less top 5 (and I know he has had some injuries) But we are not playing our guys to their strengths... we are trying to force the proverbial square peg into the round hole! 15 draft picks over the last 5 years on defense. We have went out and brought in FA's like CCanty, DSmith, Will Hill, KLewis, and others to try to give Pees tools to ensure defensive success and he continues to fail. And fail with excuses. THe problem is his predecessors has success with the some of the same players -who are playing worse since Pees arrived. Even bigger problem.. some of the current players (Will Hill, KLewis) have played much better under previous DC's.... and some of our players who left since Pees got here are playing much better for other DC's (JIhedigbo, McPhee, JSimon, BPollard, DStewart, etc). Both Ihedigbo and Darian Stewart are playing very well with their current teams (broncos and lions respecitively) and we said the weren't good enough. It is getting easier to see that no one is good enough to have success in this system because the system is broken. How did we get here. Dean Pees! That's an easy one!

[riseNConquer81]

Neglecting the offense, failing to keep the talent level of the defense up, lots of injuries

[womeiheduo]

I guess it wouldn't be that bad with the high draft picks we get next year and the 20m dead money cleared.

[North1900]

Even tho we lost 4 out of 5 games we could easily be 5-0 with a mediocre wide receiver core and a shaky defense. We just need to fix the minor things and go out and play 4 quarters of football. I have faith in my home team. #GORAVENS

[numberonefan]

With Forsett and Taliaferro both banged up, they should bring Ray Rice back since they are paying him anyway. He still wants to play and deserves a 2nd chance imo.

[riseNConquer81]

Rush four no more than five! Every time the Ravens blitz they got burned!

yeah, give em 12 seconds to burn us instead.

no combination of Albert McClellan, Courtney upshaw, Lawrence Guy, Brandon Williams, Carl Davis, and Zadarius Smith is going to get there with a 4 man rush. thats why they blitz. If you blitz, you might get a stop. If you rush 4, you'll definitely get beat.

[DenverRaven]

The people who can't stop talking down on Perriman have serious problems. Get a grip, it's a game and he will eventually play it.

[Puntit]

A big part of the problem is actually that guys like Upshaw and Jernigan, guys the article said Ravens "scored" with weren't exactly wreaking havoc either on Sunday. Upshaw is in a contract year and isn't really making much of his new opportunities.

It's way too easy to blame things on Pees, and he likely won't get another season after this one, but from what I could see, the issue is less with the play calling and more with the total lack of execution by players on the field. I think it's time to make some guys take charge on the field and maybe even fire a player or two to shake up the rest from just phoning it in.

A few years back, Tandon Doss, I recall, became a much better player after he was cut for a while because it never occurred to him that his job was in jeopardy for lack of execution. And im sure his firing had some impact on those who survived the cut. A healthy fear of being fired might go a long way.

[Bob21043]

Have the DL coach as interim DC - the defensive line has been good. Let Pees walk (run) outta here.

[Run Pass Pass Punt]

Just cut Babin and Melvin. What ever happened to how great this guy was?

[Bob21043]

Haven't seen anything from Babin - wasted signing.

[Bob21043]

Just saw that Melvin & Babin were released -

[Zeus]

Oz is finally Admittng that he made a booboo in Babin,

[Zeus]

Just cut Babin and Melvin. What ever happened to how great this guy was?

I know, most here believed they were the answer

[slowboater]

Whiffing on early draft picks; Elam, Brown and now add Perriman

Elam has a track record of not performing. Brown obviously isn't good enough to even make it on the defensive side of the ball. Perriman isn't a bust. He is hurt. Just like the others scratched every week.

[birdseye]

Dante Fowler and Kevin White, according to Ravens fans logic, are the two biggest busts in NFL history. at least Perriman has a chance to play, those two are already on IR, therefore their careers have been decided.

[BillyD]

Disagree...disagree...disagree.  Coaching...coaching...coaching.  Mike Preston had a great article recently in the Sun basically stating that Belichick continues to coach to his roster ability, and thus continues to win.  They have 5 new players on that 11 man defensive roster in NE and haven't missed a beat.  We have basically the same roster as last season, only losing Ngata to free agency.  And we have the same DC.  Yes, we have had injuries, but how do you explain the inability to stop the opposing offense dating all the way into the preseason, before the injuries happened?  Didn't Harbs mention that in a post game press conference in pre season, that it would be nice to get a defensive stop at the end of a half?  This is all about coaching and scheme, and Pees has proven over his tenure that he cannot defend the pass.  He has never been able to scheme a defense to effectively defend the pass, look at his track record.  I'm not overly excited about the offense either, but they are at least putting up points.  There are multiple issues on this team on offense and defense, but most glaring to me is the lack of discipline and the inability to put together a defensive scheme that stops the opposing offense.

[BillyD]

Have the DL coach as interim DC - the defensive line has been good. Let Pees walk (run) outta here.

Couldn't agree more.  Clarence is proven and his unit does its job for the most part.  The secondary is not being coached or schemed appropriately.  We let Dalton pass for 300+ and AJ Green log over 200 yards receiving.  Carr passed for 350+.  And McCown?  457 yards passing!  Really?  It ain't getting any better.  Same old story from the coaching staff...we need to do a better job.  Really?  Talk is cheap, boys.  Every week we need to do a better job, and every week it seems to get worse.

[cushrinada1986]

No one is a fortune teller but given some of the play and talent that got left over from last year, we should have known something was bad. Brown has only shined once since being in the league. Aiken is on his 7th-8th team now for a reason. A younger less experienced team relying on close to retirement vets to lift the team. Multiple injuries to key players and positions, giving way to players who have not played that often, which give way to penalties and blown coverage. Draft picks that were high, not performing well or not performing at all. A Oline that was shacky due to injury at LT. A QB worried about protection, which leads to throwing the ball inaccurately, which leads to int's. No pressure in clutch situations, or at all, which allows the other team to hit down field. Lack of cap which does not allow for possible trade or signing of high quality players. Thats about it in a nutshell.

[riseNConquer81]

Disagree...disagree...disagree.  Coaching...coaching...coaching.  Mike Preston had a great article recently in the Sun basically stating that Belichick continues to coach to his roster ability, and thus continues to win.  They have 5 new players on that 11 man defensive roster in NE and haven't missed a beat.

glad you pointed out that line about ability: seems like a great time to mention how much more "ability" Belichick has on his roster than we do on ours. Not to mention Belichick isnt defensive coordinator int the first place. Also, Bradley Fletcher is new and that's it. not sure who these other 4 guys you're imagining are, the rest of those starters been there for a while..

We have basically the same roster as last season, only losing Ngata to free agency. And we have the same DC. Yes, we have had injuries, but how do you explain the inability to stop the opposing offense dating all the way into the preseason, before the injuries happened?

easy.

1) its preseason. most of the guys you're talking about, the starters, barely or didnt even play.

2) The defense wasnt good last year either. secondary struggles arent new, the front was the only thing tht kept us afloat, and now we've lost that too along with some if the depth. Ngata was traded. McPhee became a bear in free agency.

[EliteRavens]

We dug ourselves in a deep hole unfortunately.

[BillyD]

glad you pointed out that line about ability: seems like a great time to mention how much more "ability" Belichick has on his roster than we do on ours. Not to mention Belichick isnt defensive coordinator int the first place. Also, Bradley Fletcher is new and that's it. not sure who these other 4 guys you're imagining are, the rest of those starters been there for a while..

easy.

1) its preseason. most of the guys you're talking about, the starters, barely or didnt even play.

2) The defense wasnt good last year either. secondary struggles arent new, the front was the only thing tht kept us afloat, and now we've lost that too along with some if the depth. Ngata was traded. McPhee became a bear in free agency.

Thanks for the read.  Both D tackles on NE were not starters last season.  Wilfork and Kelly are no longer on the NE roster.  Additionally, Reavis and Browner are no longer on the roster.  That's 4.  Also, Harmon has been replaced by Chung as a starter.  That's 5 new starters according to my math.  So that's half the defensive front and half the secondary, although Chung saw a lot of PT in the past, so I'll submit that 4 starters lost is probably more accurate.

 

Now let's address ability.  So what you are saying is that Mosley and Smith have no ability?  Williams, Guy, Jernigan, and Davis have no ability?  Upshaw, Jimmy Smith, Will Hill, and Lewis have no ability?  Really?  That's why we can't stop anyone?  That's your opinion and I certainly respect that. But I respectfully disagree with your assessment based on Pees' track record here in Baltimore, which is not good. Simple as that. 

 

I don't buy the preseason argument either.  The starters played plenty and weren't consistent, and our reserves are playing against their reserves and the scheme just didn't work.  That's just my opinion and seems to be the opinion of plenty of folks here in Ravens Nation as well as in the national media.

[BillyD]

glad you pointed out that line about ability: seems like a great time to mention how much more "ability" Belichick has on his roster than we do on ours. Not to mention Belichick isnt defensive coordinator int the first place. Also, Bradley Fletcher is new and that's it. not sure who these other 4 guys you're imagining are, the rest of those starters been there for a while..

easy.

1) its preseason. most of the guys you're talking about, the starters, barely or didnt even play.

2) The defense wasnt good last year either. secondary struggles arent new, the front was the only thing tht kept us afloat, and now we've lost that too along with some if the depth. Ngata was traded. McPhee became a bear in free agency.

And with regards to Belichick, he's the head coach.  And is known for being very involved in overall scheme and working with the coordinators, not to mention is a very experienced defensive coach who let Pees go (and let him go with good reason).  I believe the quote from NBC Sports mentions the fact that, while Pees' defensive units ranked in the top 10 overall in his tenure there, they continued a trend of coming up short in big games. 

 

If a HC is not ultimately responsible for those who work for him...i.e., OC and DC, then what is the HC's job? 

[reed20fence]

Yall realize that Harbaugh has heard every single defensive playcall since 2012 that Pees has made in his headset, right? You realize he's standing there watching every day in practice when the defensive position coaches are training their guys? He views the same tape, the same mistakes, the same blown coverages that everyone else sees. Furthermore, you all realize that on critical plays where our secondary has gotten burned, it wasn't because they were 10 yards off, it was because they lost their guy in press man coverage? Oftentimes this was during blitz calls in the front seven.

I get the feeling that a lot of fans (and I love you all cuz there are few greater joys in life than seeing a fellow Ravens fan when you live thousands of miles away from home) often vent their frustration with oversimplified criticisms and do so with such anger that they convince themselves and can't possibly fathom why career football coaches that get paid to routinely put in 14 hour days watching every footstep their guys take on a play don't understand that Dean Pees is simply "soft."

This isn't Cam Cameron, who frankly had HR type issues with his attitude and had to be let go because it was getting toxic. There are too many things going on right now for it to be that simplistic.

Edited October 13, 2015 by reed20fence

[MissRay27]

Unproductive draft picks vs productive draft picks over the last five years there is a disparity and the inability to keep our own home grown has been detrimental. Just look at the Bengals over the last five years and how they steadily have had productive draft picks and have been able to keep their star players for the most part[discounting a few veterans]who they felt could be replaced by younger more productive players and didn't require huge salaries.

[BillyD]

Yall realize that Harbaugh has heard every single defensive playcall since 2012 that Pees has made in his headset, right? You realize he's standing there watching every day in practice when the defensive position coaches are training their guys? He views the same tape, the same mistakes, the same blown coverages that everyone else sees. Furthermore, you all realize that on critical plays where our secondary has gotten burned, it wasn't because they were 10 yards off, it was because they lost their guy in press man coverage? Oftentimes this was during blitz calls in the front seven.

I get the feeling that a lot of fans (and I love you all cuz there are few greater joys in life than seeing a fellow Ravens fan when you live thousands of miles away from home) often vent their frustration with oversimplified criticisms and do so with such anger that they convince themselves and can't possibly fathom why career football coaches that get paid to routinely put in 14 hour days watching every footstep their guys take on a play don't understand that Dean Pees is simply "soft."

This isn't Cam Cameron, who frankly had HR type issues with his attitude and had to be let go because it was getting toxic. There are too many things going on right now for it to bee that simplistic.

Absolutely.  100% correct.  But why was Pees let go in New England?  Because his scheme could not get the job done in big games.  And we're seeing a continuing trend here in Baltimore.  There are, no doubt, multiple issues facing the Ravens, but it's pretty clear if you look at Pees' track record he has not faired well in big moments.  And even though we're talking about the start of a season and not the playoffs or SB, we have lost 4 of 5 games because of defensive let downs.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the patience the org has shown here and over the past few seasons with Pees. I think patience is one of our organization's strong points.  But you have to admit, you were on the edge of your seat in 2012 as the 49ers roared back after being shut down for the entire 1st half and most of the 2nd half.  Was that a scheme adjustment or the lights going out?  It's difficult to say looking at one game, but we have seen this over...and over...and over again with Pees calling the plays.  I think Harbs deserves a lot of credit supporting "his guys", both the OC and the DC.  Would love to be a fly on the wall in some of those team meetings to see what he's saying behind closed doors, though.

 

We'll see how this all shakes out.  I'm just ready for another Ravens win, ugly or not.  Let's get it done!

[ravensrock89]

Bad drafting, and not giving Joe some help on offense. Losing Kubiak was huge too. Trading down in drafts to get more picks hasn't worked. I rather get a stud player than 2 average players. You look at what Joe has to work with and you wonder why we are 1-4? his best receiver is retiring and the others cant get open if my grandma is the corner. When they did give him something he won a Super Bowl could of won 2. We get rid of Boldin and Torrey and expect M.Brown and Aiken to be your guys? Brady or Rodgers couldn't throw 100 yards with these guys. They keep bringing in guys who have been cut from other teams and we expect them to be strong starters for us, why do u think the other teams let them go? you might get lucky one in a hundred but most likely not. To many bad decisions and bad talent evaluation. When Browns and Raiders score over 30 points folks stop sugar coating things, these team needs a 2 or 3 year rebuild

[Dorota]

A big part of the problem is actually that guys like Upshaw and Jernigan, guys the article said Ravens "scored" with weren't exactly wreaking havoc either on Sunday. Upshaw is in a contract year and isn't really making much of his new opportunities.

It's way too easy to blame things on Pees, and he likely won't get another season after this one, but from what I could see, the issue is less with the play calling and more with the total lack of execution by players on the field. I think it's time to make some guys take charge on the field and maybe even fire a player or two to shake up the rest from just phoning it in.

A few years back, Tandon Doss, I recall, became a much better player after he was cut for a while because it never occurred to him that his job was in jeopardy for lack of execution. And im sure his firing had some impact on those who survived the cut. A healthy fear of being fired might go a long way.

Don't know if you posted before the news on Babin and Melvin, but I guess they're thinking the same thing. Babin will showcase why you don't commit bonehead penalties. Jernigan, watch it! I actually like some of the talent and swagger Jernigan has, but I don't want to see any more 15 yarder penalties. Those break our backs.

I'm no expert and can't tell whether our secondary is getting burnt on coverage because they're slow or due to bad play calls, but I hope new blood from the PS will help. Shame about Webby being so brittle, because I like the guy as a player and as a person. It's frustrating.