Talent Issue- Why the surprise with browns loss?

[edsopafan]

Some seem surprised by this loss. Why?

Let's digress a moment to the Pittsburgh game. - missed filed goals and a bad coaching call got us the win.  We could be 0 -5. So Lady luck gave us some hope for this game. 

 

The defensive Back Filed could be among the worse in the NFL. This has needed attention for 2-3 years. Yes we are short on receivers with experience and maybe quality. Time will tell this season. BUT the DB's on this team ???? WHY this has not been addressed is the question??? Why did we draft a receiver number 1 last draft knowing his medical history over a db that was available and could have helped.???

 

I have not in the past and am not now suggesting Oz has lost is magic. BUT he does need to find it agaiin!! Is it his scouting ?

Is it the past success of the Ravens that has left Oz to be less aggressive??  

These are hard questions that NEED not just asking but answers. 

 

Our defense has been going downhill since the Super Bowl.. Yes we spent big money on Flacco and needed to invest in the offense to reap that investment. BUT no team goes anywhere without a stellar defense. We are wasting the money and years of Flacco without the investment in defense.  No one can judge the job of John Harbaugh without the players to get the job done.

This is not an injury issue.

It is a talent issue!!!

[Static]

Talent issue? Ozzie has spoon fed this defense to a fault and its still the worse unit.

Our offense has a New coordinator both Tackles were Injured. Our first round pick hasn't seen the field and Maxx needs time. Our recievers are 3-4th rate. Our main TE is injured.

AND GUESS WHAT? OUR OFFENSE IS PUTTING UP 30 GAME IN AND GAME OUT TRYING TO CARRY THIS DEFENSE.

[ratedr]

I just posted this in the other thread.

 

On offense, it's a talent issue and has ALWAYS been a talent issue. The lack of investment on the offensive side of the ball, especially at receiver, has been a talking point for YEARS. We consistently expect the Tandon Dosses and Marlon Browns of the world to step into starting positions. No team relies on unproven talent at offensive skill positions the way we do. It's amazing that they're producing at all.

 

On defense however, you can't convince me it's a talent issue. This defense has been going downhill since Pagano left. You cannot convince me that a defense with CJ Mosley, Brandon Williams, Jimmy Smith, Elvis Dumervil, and Will Hill has no talent. I'm even starting to wonder if Matt Elam was really that bad (he showed promise under Teryl Austin his rookie season) or just a casualty of poor coaching.

Edited October 12, 2015 by ratedr

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

No it's not. We've had tangible results from the new defensive players in the first three quarters, only for it to be blown in the fourth quarter. Part of that is being young, the other part is well.... the coordinating. The biggest part of it I suppose. We're not too far away from fielding another defense. We need another pass rushing OLB, another corner, FS, and MLB. All in which can either be fillled in eventually from in house(Brooks at FS could work. DBs take awhile to develop. Arthur Brown at MLB), the draft(Bosa, Floyd, Jenkins, Ramsey), or free agency(Trumaine Johnson).

[Purple_City39]

Top two receivers, four overall: Steve Smith, Breshad Perriman, Michael Campanaro and Darren Waller
Two of their top three corners, three overall: Lardarius Webb, Will Davis, Kyle Arrington
Top two running backs: Justin Forsett and Lorenzo Taliaferro
Top two tight ends: Dennis Pitta and Crockett Gillmore
Top two pass-rushers: Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil
Top defensive end: Chris Canty

 

These are the players currently injured.  You're crazy if you don't think injuries are an issue.

 

That said, performance and the coordinators are also a big problem.  The undisciplined play is also a huge factor

[52520Andrew]

We haven't had a losing season in 7 years. We have not been high enough in the draft to get impact players and the thing is it doesn't just affect the first round. A low pick in the first means a low pick in the second and so on. An early second to go with an early first would be huge as we would essentially come away with 2 players we had first round grades on from our board as opposed to waiting until the end of the second to get someone. We haven't been the best with our first round picks either of course but give us a high pick for once and I think it can help a lot. We just can't afford to miss on these first 2 picks next year.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Talent is there.   Just simple terrible coaching(chris hewitt), complete lack of discipline(penalties), and injuries(suggs, doom, forsett, perrimen, gilmore, sss, monroe, wagner, hill)  doomed us.   

Only one major flaw this offseason was signing arrington(patriots) & lewis(texans).  Both those trash secondary never shouldve been picked up.  

[GrimCoconut]

I honestly don't think talent is necessarily the issue. This team is talented. The problem is injury is a disease that has consumed us these past two years coupled with what looks like a defense that doesn't fully buy-in to the philosophy of its coordinator.

But just to prove it's not talent...

Will Hill was seen as a very good player with the Giants and on this very team. Jimmy Smith is widely getting viewed as a top CB in the NFL. Before getting hurt, Webb was playing decent but once played great. Will Davis looked good in one game before getting hurt. That's like losing two of your starters at CB.

Lewis hasn't been great, but let's be fair--he's no Ed Reed and there's no pass rush to mask his deficiencies with both Suggs AND Dumervil getting hurt. Who could've foreseen that?

That guy Brandon Williams is pretty damn good, and so is CJ Mosley and Daryl Smith, who could be playing through injury himself. Lawrence Guy has been a good addition, even if he cost us yesterday. Justin Tucker is a great kicker we drafted--oh wait--got undrafted.

People here thought Arrington was a good signing as a slot CB. In fact, the media even thought it was a good signing.

[RavensMillz]

Talent issue? Ozzie has spoon fed this defense to a fault and its still the worse unit.

Our offense has a New coordinator both Tackles were Injured. Our first round pick hasn't seen the field and Maxx needs time. Our recievers are 3-4th rate. Our main TE is injured.

AND GUESS WHAT? OUR OFFENSE IS PUTTING UP 30 GAME IN AND GAME OUT TRYING TO CARRY THIS DEFENSE.

Took the words right out of my mouth. The offense with all its lackluster talent is still giving us a chance to win. Meanwhile the defense...

[Ravens2343]

I honestly don't think talent is necessarily the issue. This team is talented. The problem is injury is a disease that has consumed us these past two years coupled with what looks like a defense that doesn't fully buy-in to the philosophy of its coordinator.

But just to prove it's not talent...

Will Hill was seen as a very good player with the Giants and on this very team. Jimmy Smith is widely getting viewed as a top CB in the NFL. Before getting hurt, Webb was playing decent but once played great. Will Davis looked good in one game before getting hurt. That's like losing two of your starters at CB.

Lewis hasn't been great, but let's be fair--he's no Ed Reed and there's no pass rush to mask his deficiencies with both Suggs AND Dumervil getting hurt. Who could've foreseen that?

That guy Brandon Williams is pretty damn good, and so is CJ Mosley and Daryl Smith, who could be playing through injury himself. Lawrence Guy has been a good addition, even if he cost us yesterday. Justin Tucker is a great kicker we drafted--oh wait--got undrafted.

People here thought Arrington was a good signing as a slot CB. In fact, the media even thought it was a good signing.

 

I think it is a lack of talent in some regards.  Since Flacco and Harbaugh have arrived we have constantly picked at the bottom of the rounds due to our success.  We have lost numerous coaches due to our success as well as many players who were overpaid due to our success.  The FO routinely is strapped against the cap due to paying our top players and sometimes getting burned on bad deals.  We always have to settle for "past their prime" free agents who were cut from their prior team.  It is actually amazing how well we have done during that stretch compared to other teams.  We certainly have enough talent to make the playoffs, but injuries to key players have hurt and we don't have the depth to stay afloat.  This offseason should be a turning point for our team and hopefully we can bring in more talent to lead us through the next 5-7 years

Edited October 12, 2015 by Ravens2343

[RavensMillz]

I think it is a lack of talent in some regards.  Since Flacco and Harbaugh have arrived we have constantly picked at the bottom of the rounds due to our success.  We have lost numerous coaches due to our success as well as many players who were overpaid due to our success.  The FO routinely is strapped against the cap due to paying our top players and sometimes getting burned on bad deals.  We always have to settle for "past their prime" free agents who were cut from their prior team.  It is actually amazing how well we have done during that stretch compared to other teams.  We certainly have enough talent to make the playoffs, but injuries to key players have hurt and we don't have the depth to stay afloat.  This offseason should be a turning point for our team and hopefully we can bring in more talent to lead us through the next 5-7 years

 All of these are great reasons for our current issues. My biggest concern has been our draft history rather than our free agency results. We have drafted two offensive starters since 2008 that are currently on the field and that's Flacco and Osemele. Everyone else sees the field sparingly due to injuries of the starters in front of them. And the defense has just been unlucky. We have several draft picks in recent years just not work out for us. Maybe some of those years instead of stockpiling draft picks, maybe we trade up to get something great.

[BallHawker]

This is why we are in this situation.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap/

 

Cap hits

 

Ray Rice RB - $9,500,000

Haloti Ngata DT - $7,500,000

Jacoby Jones WR - $2,625,000

Dennis Pitta TE $6,200,000

Lardarius Webb CB - $9,250,000

Eugene Monroe LT - $7,700,000

 

 

We're the 2013 Stoolers at best and 2014 Falcons at worst

Edited October 12, 2015 by BallHawker

[nyc9192]

Talent issue? Ozzie has spoon fed this defense to a fault and its still the worse unit.

Our offense has a New coordinator both Tackles were Injured. Our first round pick hasn't seen the field and Maxx needs time. Our recievers are 3-4th rate. Our main TE is injured.

AND GUESS WHAT? OUR OFFENSE IS PUTTING UP 30 GAME IN AND GAME OUT TRYING TO CARRY THIS DEFENSE.

Exactly.I've been saying this.If your gonna invest most of our picks and resources into the defense,specifically the front 7,theres no reason it should be the worst unit

[berad]

This is why we are in this situation.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap/

 

Cap hits

 

Ray Rice RB - $9,500,000

Haloti Ngata DT - $7,500,000

Jacoby Jones WR - $2,625,000

Dennis Pitta TE $6,200,000

Lardarius Webb CB - $9,250,000

Eugene Monroe LT - $7,700,000

 

 

We're the 2013 Stoolers at best and 2014 Falcons at worst

 

The dead money hurts us more than anything, all of that is off the books in 2016 - thankfully.

[RaineV1]

On Lewis and Arrington, I think both would be playing better in a different system with a different coordinator. There's just something about the Ravens' defense that just brings out the worst in the DBs. Either Pees' system or the DB coaching. I wouldn't be surprised if Brooks and Elam would be playing at a higher level if they were on another team.

[K-Dog]

Top two receivers, four overall: Steve Smith, Breshad Perriman, Michael Campanaro and Darren Waller

Two of their top three corners, three overall: Lardarius Webb, Will Davis, Kyle Arrington

Top two running backs: Justin Forsett and Lorenzo Taliaferro

Top two tight ends: Dennis Pitta and Crockett Gillmore

Top two pass-rushers: Terrell Suggs and Elvis Dumervil

Top defensive end: Chris Canty

These are the players currently injured. You're crazy if you don't think injuries are an issue.

That said, performance and the coordinators are also a big problem. The undisciplined play is also a huge factor

That list is a "Who's who " for The Ravens.

A shorter list would be which "A" players are NOT hurt.

[rmw10]

This is why we are in this situation.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap/

Cap hits

Ray Rice RB - $9,500,000

Haloti Ngata DT - $7,500,000

Jacoby Jones WR - $2,625,000

Dennis Pitta TE $6,200,000

Lardarius Webb CB - $9,250,000

Eugene Monroe LT - $7,700,000

We're the 2013 Stoolers at best and 2014 Falcons at worst

And the dead money from Ray Rice is the real killer. You can criticize for some bad contracts, but there's also a lot of hard luck in there as well. As you alluded to, it's hard to stack talent with that much money associated to guys that aren't on the field or even on the team. Edited October 12, 2015 by rmw10

[Sir Spooky]

I just posted this in the other thread.

 

On offense, it's a talent issue and has ALWAYS been a talent issue. The lack of investment on the offensive side of the ball, especially at receiver, has been a talking point for YEARS. We consistently expect the Tandon Dosses and Marlon Browns of the world to step into starting positions. No team relies on unproven talent at offensive skill positions the way we do. It's amazing that they're producing at all.

 

On defense however, you can't convince me it's a talent issue. This defense has been going downhill since Pagano left. You cannot convince me that a defense with CJ Mosley, Brandon Williams, Jimmy Smith, Elvis Dumervil, and Will Hill has no talent. I'm even starting to wonder if Matt Elam was really that bad (he showed promise under Teryl Austin his rookie season) or just a casualty of poor coaching.

Thank you; this is the truth about this team. I can't understand why people don't see this. The people on the forum have been constantly complaining about Pees (who always had talent at every level) and the lack of investment on offense (where our best player is our RG). Well this is what happens when your defense finally breaks and your offense lacks the talent to carry said defense. It was going to happen eventually and 2015 is that time. 

 

P.S. Matt Elam's tackling has fallen off and he always lacked the cover skills. He's a strong safety and only a strong safety. Maybe Teryl Austin's departure affected his tackling ability or maybe he's just out of position playing CB. 

[FlackAttack]

I just posted this in the other thread.

 

On offense, it's a talent issue and has ALWAYS been a talent issue. The lack of investment on the offensive side of the ball, especially at receiver, has been a talking point for YEARS. We consistently expect the Tandon Dosses and Marlon Browns of the world to step into starting positions. No team relies on unproven talent at offensive skill positions the way we do. It's amazing that they're producing at all.

 

On defense however, you can't convince me it's a talent issue. This defense has been going downhill since Pagano left. You cannot convince me that a defense with CJ Mosley, Brandon Williams, Jimmy Smith, Elvis Dumervil, and Will Hill has no talent. I'm even starting to wonder if Matt Elam was really that bad (he showed promise under Teryl Austin his rookie season) or just a casualty of poor coaching.

 

matt elam was really that bad, no DC can coach him how to stop playing soft and missing tackles.

[rmcjacket23]

And the dead money from Ray Rice is the real killer. You can criticize for some bad contracts, but there's also a lot of hard luck in there as well. As you alluded to, it's hard to stack talent with that much money associated to guys that aren't on the field or even on the team.

Sort of a crutch though. I mean, if we're going to look at the big picture...

 

Patriots have $17.8M in dead money, Steelers have $17.5M in dead money, Cowboys have $15.2M in dead money.

 

Granted the Steelers and Cowboys have QB injuries that are preventing them from winning, but these are among the best teams in the league when their QB is on the field, and they have pretty large dead money cap hits.

 

I doubt an extra $6M to spend (if we were to drop our dead money down to their level) is the difference between us and those teams in terms of on-field success. That's one or two decent players, and we are way more than one or two decent players away from being on their level.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Who was surprised?

 

When we were up 21 - 9, but failed to score again, I knew we were probably going to lose.

When Harbaugh settled for playing it safe, going for the field goal and overtime rather than take the risk of going for the TD and the win, I knew we were definitely going to lose.

 

That's when I turned off the TV.

I didn't watch the overtime portion.

[rmcjacket23]

Who was surprised?

 

When we were up 21 - 9, but failed to score again, I knew we were probably going to lose.

When Harbaugh settled for playing it safe, going for the field goal and overtime rather than take the risk of going for the TD and the win, I knew we were definitely going to lose.

 

That's when I turned off the TV.

I didn't watch the overtime portion.

Didn't really think we were playing for the tie at the end of regulation. We ran the ball well to get down to where we were. We just don't have anybody reliable in the red zone from a pass catching perspective, and its far easier to stop our run game when the field shrinks.

[Winchester]

We haven't had a losing season in 7 years. We have not been high enough in the draft to get impact players and the thing is it doesn't just affect the first round. A low pick in the first means a low pick in the second and so on. An early second to go with an early first would be huge as we would essentially come away with 2 players we had first round grades on from our board as opposed to waiting until the end of the second to get someone. We haven't been the best with our first round picks either of course but give us a high pick for once and I think it can help a lot. We just can't afford to miss on these first 2 picks next year.

Why not trade up several slots in round one for a change?? Since most mid rounders are busts and role players anyways!! Hmmm 2-3 busts and mediocre role players or one impact player?? Biscotti had to make him trade up for Flacco!! Same thing every draft oz sits on his thumbs and nievely thinks the players the scouts are high on will be there. Then he reaches for a bust or role player or trades back and drafts some more busts. Upshaw,Elam,Kindle,Cody,Dickson,Perriman. Is anybody aware the ravens wanted Bryant and Gronk in 2010?? Oz incompetently sat there while more competent more assertive GMs traded in front of him. Same thing in 2012,2013 and 2015. Let's not get started on the contracts oz handed out to injured,erratic or declining players. On yes Ray Rice was in Decline. Watch him run the ball in 2009 then 2012!! Ray Rice would be 30-31 RB right now and still holds salary cap implications!! It was a bad signing idea go an aging RB with lots of miles on his tires since college!! It was a Bad signing idea even without the popular Halloween costume idea he treated everybody to. Every gm deserves the benefit of bad luck for one signing. But they are pretty much all bad!! How many get out of jail free cards is he going to get??

Edited October 12, 2015 by Winchester

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Didn't really think we were playing for the tie at the end of regulation. We ran the ball well to get down to where we were. We just don't have anybody reliable in the red zone from a pass catching perspective, and its far easier to stop our run game when the field shrinks.

 

It was classic Harbaugh, run twice, then throw. Remember, Trestman's history would lead one to expect him to throw it at least twice if not all 3 times. But you're right that Harbaugh may have had more confidence in the run, even though Justin had just been lost for the game, than in our makeshift recieving corp, though Kamar, Nick and Jeremy all played well and the RBs showed they could catch too. Only one who really failed to show up was Marlon (again).

[Ravens2343]

Why not trade up several slots in round one for a change?? Since most mid rounders are busts and role players anyways!! Hmmm 2-3 busts and mediocre role players or one impact player?? Biscotti had to make him trade up for Flacco!! Same thing every draft oz sits on his thumbs and nievely thinks the players the scouts are high on will be there. Then he reaches for a bust or role player or trades back and drafts some more busts. Upshaw,Elam,Kindle,Cody,Dickson,Perriman. Is anybody aware the ravens wanted Bryant and Gronk in 2010?? Oz incompetently sat there while more competent more assertive GMs traded in front of him. Same thing in 2012,2013 and 2015. Let's not get started on the contracts oz handed out to injured,erratic or declining players. On yes Ray Rice was in Decline. Watch him run the ball in 2009 then 2012!! Ray Rice would be 30-31 RB right now and still holds salary cap implications!! It was a bad signing idea go an aging RB with lots of miles on his tires since college!! It was a Bad signing idea even without the popular Halloween costume idea he treated everybody to. Every gm deserves the benefit of bad luck for one signing. But they are pretty much all bad!! How many get out of jail free cards is he going to get??

 

Trading up is a good idea sometimes and sometimes its not.  If we traded away a majority of our mid round picks for 1 impact guy then we would be stuck with the same problem we have now, we have no quality depth.  We have drafted fairly well over the last few years considering we are always picking late in the rounds.  I would not consider Perriman a bust until he plays games and we see what he is made of.  Elam is still young and could turn into a decent backup for us, obviously not what you want from a first round pick but its something.  Our team stinks right now but we have to try and find the positives, because there is a lot of good we can build on moving forward and hopefully have a quick turnaround for next season

[52520Andrew]

Why not trade up several slots in round one for a change?? Since most mid rounders are busts and role players anyways!! Hmmm 2-3 busts and mediocre role players or one impact player?? Biscotti had to make him trade up for Flacco!! Same thing every draft oz sits on his thumbs and nievely thinks the players the scouts are high on will be there. Then he reaches for a bust or role player or trades back and drafts some more busts. Upshaw,Elam,Kindle,Cody,Dickson,Perriman. Is anybody aware the ravens wanted Bryant and Gronk in 2010?? Oz incompetently sat there while more competent more assertive GMs traded in front of him. Same thing in 2012,2013 and 2015. Let's not get started on the contracts oz handed out to injured,erratic or declining players. On yes Ray Rice was in Decline. Watch him run the ball in 2009 then 2012!! Ray Rice would be 30-31 RB right now and still holds salary cap implications!! It was a bad signing idea go an aging RB with lots of miles on his tires since college!! It was a Bad signing idea even without the popular Halloween costume idea he treated everybody to. Every gm deserves the benefit of bad luck for one signing. But they are pretty much all bad!! How many get out of jail free cards is he going to get??

Because teams don't just give high picks away. You know how the Falcons got Julio? By giving up so much in draft picks, they are just now getting back to being good. Our depth is bad enough as is as well. And if the player we trade up for doesn't pan out? Sets you back for years

[Winchester]

Because teams don't just give high picks away. You know how the Falcons got Julio? By giving up so much in draft picks, they are just now getting back to being good. Our depth is bad enough as is as well. And if the player we trade up for doesn't pan out? Sets you back for years

Of course you don't give up that much for one player!! Even though an argument can be made Jones is a once every 5 year talent. Impact players can not be replaced. Role players come a dime a dozen. If the player does not work out you trade up for then it does not set you back any further than when your late round1 pick is a bust and your round2-4 picks are busts and role players!! This team has lost impact players and not replaced them!! The so called wizzard should have been making moves to replace and or add the impact players. I can not believe what I am reading on this board. Everybody is making excuses for oz not having top10 picks then defending his decision to sit on the picks and load the roster with busts and role players!! Forget Ozzie's busts and bad signings. Name ONE impact player added in the last 6 drafts. Mosley is the only one you could remotely make a case for. Dumervil is the only impact free agent that has been added in the last 9 years. Unless you count Steve Smith a 2 year rental. By his own acknowledgement he is a #2 at the current moment of his career. It is amazing nobody wants to give up a #3 pick for a potential #1 WR. As if we are going to miss out on an all pro player with that pick!! I don't get why everybody is defending oz and his lack of creativity to maneuver into a top 15 pick and get the ravens some game changers. The team is losing game changers to age, money or whatever. And is not adding any game changers. Oz is not even playing the drafts strengths. 2014 was his best shot to change is reputation on his complete incompetence drafting WRs and he ignores the position!! Everybody knew Torry was not a #1WR yet was going to look to get paid. Suggs and Dumervil are aging yet their replacement is not currently on the foster to learn from them. This draft oz had 2 options at WR. Trade up and secure a more dynamic commodity like White or Cooper. Or sit at 26 and reach for whatever WR name is left in the hat. By not trading up for Hopkins in 2013 or playing the 2014 drafts strengths and drafting Robinson or Matthews the ravens were locked into drafting a WR this draft. Problem is, most rookie WRs are not ready to make an impact. Especially a raw project like Perriman. Which means oz should have known he was entering the season with Smith a year older, fragile Campanaro and 2 way overhyped undrafted WRs. I tried to cool down everybody's enthusiasm and tell everybody oz should have signed a WR or traded for one before the season. At least another legit #2 caliber WR. Everybody including my best friends became upset at me for saying that!! I would have traded our Roud1 pick last year for Allen Robinson in .04 seconds over drafting perriman!! He is a better prospect coming out, plays faster than Perriman and showed impact promise as a rookie. The defense is not going to be good this year unless they acquire an impact edge rusher. The ravens route to a winning season rests on Joe cool. They need to trade for a legit WR. At least a legit #2 caliber with speed and pair him with Steve Smith when he returns. Then hope the online gets healthy and dominates like it is capable of. And maybe the ravens go on a winning streak and get into the playoffs playing their best football offensively!! And they could potentially win a shootout with anybody. BUT oz and his followers would likely frown at the idea of trading a draft pick or couple draft picks. As if they have yielded anything that significant. Even for an impact WR. I suppose everybody thinks we need some more mediocre TEs. But when the oline is back intact and dominates like they should. And if they would only acquire a legit WR to pair with Steve Smith when he returns Joe Cool already proven he can hang 30-40 every game and control the ball. And by playoff time guys on defense like jernigan Mosley Dumervil Hill Davis could be up to speed enough to provide a little defense. But they got to acquire a legit WR and allow Joe cool a shot to carry the team to the postseason. Joe cool has done a lot with these scrubs. He deserves a legit WR to show he can win any shootout and get the team on a run. No QB could do it with the current weapons!! Not Brady or Rodgers. Joe deserves a WR and coaching and management to hand him the keys and show him some trust and say screw the defense go win some games for us Joe. This would be a great test for Joe Cool. To prove he is an elite franchise QB that can carry the team to an 8-3 record or better the rest of the way. If it takes a round2 and a round3or4 pick to bring in the WR then so be it. Give Joe cool a shot to get the team on a run.

[Winchester]

Trading up is a good idea sometimes and sometimes its not.  If we traded away a majority of our mid round picks for 1 impact guy then we would be stuck with the same problem we have now, we have no quality depth.  We have drafted fairly well over the last few years considering we are always picking late in the rounds.  I would not consider Perriman a bust until he plays games and we see what he is made of.  Elam is still young and could turn into a decent backup for us, obviously not what you want from a first round pick but its something.  Our team stinks right now but we have to try and find the positives, because there is a lot of good we can build on moving forward and hopefully have a quick turnaround for next season

Our problem is not quality role players or depth. It is no game changer type players. Depth can be found anywhere. Game changers can not. Why talk about depth when starters are terrible

[52520Andrew]

Of course you don't give up that much for one player!! Even though an argument can be made Jones is a once every 5 year talent. Impact players can not be replaced. Role players come a dime a dozen. If the player does not work out you trade up for then it does not set you back any further than when your late round1 pick is a bust and your round2-4 picks are busts and role players!! This team has lost impact players and not replaced them!! The so called wizzard should have been making moves to replace and or add the impact players. I can not believe what I am reading on this board. Everybody is making excuses for oz not having top10 picks then defending his decision to sit on the picks and load the roster with busts and role players!! Forget Ozzie's busts and bad signings. Name ONE impact player added in the last 6 drafts. Mosley is the only one you could remotely make a case for. Dumervil is the only impact free agent that has been added in the last 9 years. Unless you count Steve Smith a 2 year rental. By his own acknowledgement he is a #2 at the current moment of his career. It is amazing nobody wants to give up a #3 pick for a potential #1 WR. As if we are going to miss out on an all pro player with that pick!! I don't get why everybody is defending oz and his lack of creativity to maneuver into a top 15 pick and get the ravens some game changers. The team is losing game changers to age, money or whatever. And is not adding any game changers. Oz is not even playing the drafts strengths. 2014 was his best shot to change is reputation on his complete incompetence drafting WRs and he ignores the position!! Everybody knew Torry was not a #1WR yet was going to look to get paid. Suggs and Dumervil are aging yet their replacement is not currently on the foster to learn from them. This draft oz had 2 options at WR. Trade up and secure a more dynamic commodity like White or Cooper. Or sit at 26 and reach for whatever WR name is left in the hat. By not trading up for Hopkins in 2013 or playing the 2014 drafts strengths and drafting Robinson or Matthews the ravens were locked into drafting a WR this draft. Problem is, most rookie WRs are not ready to make an impact. Especially a raw project like Perriman. Which means oz should have known he was entering the season with Smith a year older, fragile Campanaro and 2 way overhyped undrafted WRs. I tried to cool down everybody's enthusiasm and tell everybody oz should have signed a WR or traded for one before the season. At least another legit #2 caliber WR. Everybody including my best friends became upset at me for saying that!! I would have traded our Roud1 pick last year for Allen Robinson in .04 seconds over drafting perriman!! He is a better prospect coming out, plays faster than Perriman and showed impact promise as a rookie. The defense is not going to be good this year unless they acquire an impact edge rusher. The ravens route to a winning season rests on Joe cool. They need to trade for a legit WR. At least a legit #2 caliber with speed and pair him with Steve Smith when he returns. Then hope the online gets healthy and dominates like it is capable of. And maybe the ravens go on a winning streak and get into the playoffs playing their best football offensively!! And they could potentially win a shootout with anybody. BUT oz and his followers would likely frown at the idea of trading a draft pick or couple draft picks. As if they have yielded anything that significant. Even for an impact WR. I suppose everybody thinks we need some more mediocre TEs. But when the oline is back intact and dominates like they should. And if they would only acquire a legit WR to pair with Steve Smith when he returns Joe Cool already proven he can hang 30-40 every game and control the ball. And by playoff time guys on defense like jernigan Mosley Dumervil Hill Davis could be up to speed enough to provide a little defense. But they got to acquire a legit WR and allow Joe cool a shot to carry the team to the postseason. Joe cool has done a lot with these scrubs. He deserves a legit WR to show he can win any shootout and get the team on a run. No QB could do it with the current weapons!! Not Brady or Rodgers. Joe deserves a WR and coaching and management to hand him the keys and show him some trust and say screw the defense go win some games for us Joe. This would be a great test for Joe Cool. To prove he is an elite franchise QB that can carry the team to an 8-3 record or better the rest of the way. If it takes a round2 and a round3or4 pick to bring in the WR then so be it. Give Joe cool a shot to get the team on a run.

Julio wasn't even the first WR taken in that draft by the way let alone a once every 5 year talent. Calvin Johnson was when he was picked.

On another note, I don't have the time to read through that entire thing and give you a good counterarguement. Try to at least organize your thoughts into paragraphs as it makes it easier for all involved as opposed to a big wall of text. I'll give you this from what I have read.

Basically my thoughts are that we can always move up a few spots for a player but since I didn't hear the phone calls it is kinda hard to know what the terms are or if teams are even moving down.

I also think the Ravens had really high hopes on Perriman this year, I feel that we should have at least had a backup plan if he wasn't ready but oh well. The injury there is what is killing us because he was going to be our speed threat to make things easier for everyone.

[rmw10]

Holy wall of text.