[News] Late For Work 10/12: Is Ravens' Season Over? What They're Saying

[ramram]

Don't know what to say and who to blame but i don't think it would change by firing Pees or trestman. I think obviously some blame has to go on Harbs. As a Head coach, i don't know that he has any deep knowledge of either offense nor defense (Ex- special team coach) so it's not like when things go wrong you can go to the HC and he's going to figure it out (like hoodie would) maybe wrong on this but that's what i feel. Also i don't know what is up with the scouting and OZ. Althought i trust in OZ fully i don't know why we have clearly miss on high draft picks. It could be us picking late in each rounds for some time now or maybe it is someone in high position who doen't have the best eye for talent who knows. But the bottom line is there is not enough talent on the roster. And not enough STAR players ala earl thomas, chancelor sherman,wagner, bennett flat out up dominate week in and week out.

Defensively we have zero pass rush and can't cover. Both work hand in hand but the 3-4 is base on OLB being disruptive (pitts couple years ago, T-Sizzle in his prime, DEN) and that is just not happening right now. Upshaw is strong as a bull but that's about it. Imo you don't draft guys like that 35th overall, guys with limited pass rush skills but good at setting the edge can be found in later rounds. Mosley is good and explosive but after that andy dalton shake n bake i don't know what to think. I have not focus on him recently so you guys tell me. Obviously we missed on Elam, which hurts. Also too many whiffs on picks from round 1-3. Those picks are critical and we cannot miss om them, (A.brown, Elam, jernigan, brooks, upshaw, pierce) I don't mean to say that these guys absolutly CAN'T play but when picking players from those round you hope getting some impact players.

the positive is, i really like our o-line and aswell as some of our backups. I like gilmore, C. davis, big B. williams, t.Walker looked good in PS, Boyle and Maxx, ORR looked really instinctive in preseason but it is still preseason.., Campanaro, W.davis)

As for this season, like others said maybe it is good that we lost like that, it will force us to look at ourselves honestly and stop sugar coating. Maybe play some younger guys too.

[rmcjacket23]

It's over all right. Time to start planning for next year. We should finally get a low pick and it may be time to move a few veterans who still have some value. More to the point we need to look at both coordinators. We have absolutely no "D", and the "O" is sputtering badly every time we get to crunch time. Did I mention... we need a much more cap-friendly number out of our QB for next year.

Wouldn't expect that, considering Joe's cap number is very friendly this season at $14.55M (12th highest in the league). He's had a well below average cap number his entire career so far. For what its worth, some of the QBs who cost more against the cap this year than Flacco... Stafford, Peyton Manning, Roethlisberger, Cutler, Romo, Kaepernick, and Alex Smith.

 

Even with an extension, expect his cap hit to go up in 2016 (and possibly significantly), not down.

[bnyce52]

Looks like someone is having a little bit of fun on Dean Pees' Wikipedia page. "On October 12th 2015 the Ravens fired him due to the inability to call 1 successful play in the 4th quarter vs the 1-3 Browns, like really Dean."

[RavensFootballFan]

Because there's no point in looking at the bright side of something that's incredibly likely to change.

 

All that's accomplished from looking at future dead money at this point is getting fans to think that we will all of the sudden going to have $50M to spend, which we won't even be remotely close to that.

 

If we want to be REALISTIC (not optimistic) about our 2016 cap situation:

 

The Ravens, as currently assembled, would have about $13M in cap space with 46 players under contract. That would rank us 24th out of 32 NFL teams. While our dead money situation right now seems like its great, keep in mind that 20 of the 32 NFL teams currently have less than $1M in dead money on their books for 2016, and all three of our division rivals fit in that category, including the 5-0 Bengals, who have the least amount of projected dead money in the league.

 

Additionally, just looking at our division rivals, the Bengals, who again are 5-0, are currently projected to have in excess of $30M in cap space.

 

Bottom line... its a pointless discussion to even look at the positives in regards to , because there really aren't any without context and the likelihood of it dramatically changing is so high that its not worth trying to sugarcoat.

 

I know 20 teams are under $1 million in cap space so far next year. What you are ignoring is we are currently under the cap by at least $13 million with players under contract next year, a swing of at least $34 million ($13 million by contract and $21 million in dead money gone next year). Cap space is expected to raise to at least $150 million next year and possibly upwards of $160 million. The Ravens currently are $136,975,365 under contract next year, including Flacco's $28,550,000 which we all know will be restructured. It also includes SSS $4.1 million next year and we know that will be wiped once he retires, throw in Flacco's restructured deal and we will have even more cap space. Also there will be players cut who will not count against the cap in 2016. Sure we have Yanda and Tucker's extension to deal with. My whole point being is that we will not be dealing with nearly $20 in dead money from two players (R.Rice and H.Ngata) like we did this year. You can twist it any way you want but the facts remain that the Ravens will be in far much better shape next year with signing above average players to plug holes than they were able to do this year. You can be pessimistic about next year all you want but I am going the other way based on numbers/cap space we will see after the 2015 season is over. Cap space will be far greater preseason 2016 than preseason 2015 and that is something to be optimistic about for next year. 

[RavensFootballFan]

In what fantasy world has it been proven that Ray and Ed were the real head coaches of this team? Let's look at the facts.

 

Ed Reed was drafted in 2002, so he and Ray played 6 years together before Harbaugh was hired in 2008.

 

In those 6 years, the Ravens won 0 playoff games, they failed to make the playoffs 4 times, and they had a losing record 3 times.

 

The lack of a qb was a major factor there, but the team still had a ton of talent, and they were wildly inconsistent, and never contended for a SB. Last year, without Lewis or Reed, the Ravens overcame a ton of adversity, beat the Steelers in the postseason for the first time in franchise history(destroyed them actually), and despite having 19 players on IR, almost beat the eventual SB champs. It's not like the Ravens have never had a 1-4 stretch with Lewis and Reed. We finished our SB season by going 1-4 in the last 5 games, and we had a 5-11 season.

 

Excellent post. I agree with you. 

[thunderroach]

What a coaching job by the great clan. He inherited a team that made his rep as some kind of great coach.WRONG! He won the superbowl cause Ray and the boys told him to get out of the way and they would get the job done,and did! Players don't respect the guy and he will continue to go down hill and drag the team with him.Got rid of the last of the great defense we were known for and look what we have now !Time to cut ties with the lil dictator and get a coach who knows how to use the talent he has and someone who good players want to play for. Plenty of college teams he can coach for and bully the players.

[RavensFootballFan]

Looks like someone is having a little bit of fun on Dean Pees' Wikipedia page. "On October 12th 2015 the Ravens fired him due to the inability to call 1 successful play in the 4th quarter vs the 1-3 Browns, like really Dean."

 

Oh man, that is funny! I just took a screen shot of that before it will be removed. lol 

[rmcjacket23]

I know 20 teams are under $1 million in cap space so far next year. What you are ignoring is we are currently under the cap by at least $13 million with players under contract next year, a swing of at least $34 million ($13 million by contract and $21 million in dead money gone next year). Cap space is expected to raise to at least $150 million next year and possibly upwards of $160 million. The Ravens currently are $136,975,365 under contract next year, including Flacco's $28,550,000 which we all know will be restructured. It also includes SSS $4.1 million next year and we know that will be wiped once he retires, throw in Flacco's restructured deal and we will have even more cap space. Also there will be players cut who will not count against the cap in 2016. Sure we have Yanda and Tucker's extension to deal with. My whole point being is that we will not be dealing with nearly $20 in dead money from two players (R.Rice and H.Ngata) like we did this year. You can twist it any way you want but the facts remain that the Ravens will be in far much better shape next year with signing above average players to plug holes than they were able to do this year. You can be pessimistic about next year all you want but I am going the other way based on numbers/cap space we will see after the 2015 season is over. Cap space will be far greater preseason 2016 than preseason 2015 and that is something to be optimistic about for next year. 

Don't care about whatever perceived "swing" there is, because that swing doesn't all of the sudden add $34M to our cap. We have $13M right now. It may go up, it may go down. If the FO is wise, Flacco's extension will keep his cap hit in at least the 

$18-20M range, because going lower than that just causes the same problem you're in now, and there's no getting out from under the deal's you've already made. Most likely, by the time you factor in at least two extensions for players such as Yanda and Tucker, you're basically close to even when it comes from those tradeoffs.

 

Once you factor in draft pick compensation AND the fact that our current cap number is only for 46 players under contract, whereas the real cap accounts for 51 players, you're probably at $10M or less in cap space right from the start.

 

While SSS is retiring, not all of his salary goes away. He counts about $1.2M against the cap regardless of whether he's retired or not, and he probably won't be alone.

 

Like I specifically said, without CONTEXT, these numbers mean nothing. We could have $30M in cap space, but if everybody else in the league is working with $50-60M, then $30M in cap space isn't a good thing. If we have $15M in cap space, and that's bottom third in the league, that's not great. Better than last year? OK, so what? It doesn't matter if there's 2 guys taking up $15M in dead money or 20 guys taking up $15M in dead money... its the same amount. We're going to have north of $10M in dead money for whatever quantity of players aren't playing for us. 

 

Some of those cuts will free up space, and some of them might free up very little. I don't suspect you're going to see some radical change in team philosophy where we go out and buy some FA WRs, corners, etc. We will probably still be shopping in the second tier of players just like we always have.

 

To me, this whole concept changes virtually nothing about our off-season strategy in terms of how we deal with the FA market.

[steelcityraven]

I don't know if the Ravens season is over or not???? but I know that Dean Pees season with the Ravens should be over!

[steelcityraven]

I really do think Harbs is a great coach. I thing his one down fall is that he don't hold his assistants accountable enough! When Cam Cameron didn't cut it....it took him too many loses to finally acknowledge this and do something about it (and I think that was forced from the FO). When Gary Moeller struggled...same thing. Now that Dean Pees is struggling.... that axe should have been out a long time ago. Harbs gives his assistants way too much freedom and doesn't hold them accountable unless he is forced to. CMon Biscotti.... time to get rid of Pees!

[Ravenshine]

No more "Next game..." now it is "Next year..." The Orioles didn't allow the Ravens to play a home game after the Super Bowl win; the Ravens have not been the same since. The new defensive coordinator will insist on DBs that can attack the ball and tackle. The loss at home on a beautiful day was symbolic of poor management. If no change in management, expect more of the same failing results. Ticket holders are embarrassed by their hard earned money going down the drain into the Harbor.

Maybe not for you, but I guarantee for the players and coaches there is indeed....next game.

[rmcjacket23]

I really do think Harbs is a great coach. I thing his one down fall is that he don't hold his assistants accountable enough! When Cam Cameron didn't cut it....it took him too many loses to finally acknowledge this and do something about it (and I think that was forced from the FO). When Gary Moeller struggled...same thing. Now that Dean Pees is struggling.... that axe should have been out a long time ago. Harbs gives his assistants way too much freedom and doesn't hold them accountable unless he is forced to. CMon Biscotti.... time to get rid of Pees!

Good managers of people don't just fire people because the masses say so.

 

If coaches fired assistants as quickly as fans want them fired, then no assistant coach would ever agree to come here again. 

 

Just think... this fanbase wanted Juan Castillo fired after about the first month. Can you imagine if Harbs actually listened to fans in that regard?

[RavensFootballFan]

Don't care about whatever perceived "swing" there is, because that swing doesn't all of the sudden add $34M to our cap. We have $13M right now. It may go up, it may go down. If the FO is wise, Flacco's extension will keep his cap hit in at least the 

$18-20M range, because going lower than that just causes the same problem you're in now, and there's no getting out from under the deal's you've already made. Most likely, by the time you factor in at least two extensions for players such as Yanda and Tucker, you're basically close to even when it comes from those tradeoffs.

 

Once you factor in draft pick compensation AND the fact that our current cap number is only for 46 players under contract, whereas the real cap accounts for 51 players, you're probably at $10M or less in cap space right from the start.

 

While SSS is retiring, not all of his salary goes away. He counts about $1.2M against the cap regardless of whether he's retired or not, and he probably won't be alone.

 

Like I specifically said, without CONTEXT, these numbers mean nothing. We could have $30M in cap space, but if everybody else in the league is working with $50-60M, then $30M in cap space isn't a good thing. If we have $15M in cap space, and that's bottom third in the league, that's not great. Better than last year? OK, so what? It doesn't matter if there's 2 guys taking up $15M in dead money or 20 guys taking up $15M in dead money... its the same amount. We're going to have north of $10M in dead money for whatever quantity of players aren't playing for us. 

 

Some of those cuts will free up space, and some of them might free up very little. I don't suspect you're going to see some radical change in team philosophy where we go out and buy some FA WRs, corners, etc. We will probably still be shopping in the second tier of players just like we always have.

 

To me, this whole concept changes virtually nothing about our off-season strategy in terms of how we deal with the FA market.

 

All our loses are within six points or less. We don't need a major overhaul. We basically are one #1 WR and a couple/maybe a few spots mainly on defense from being Super Bowl contenders which we will be able to afford to get next year. We don't need $50-$60 million in cap money to turn around the team's fortune. $30 million is more than enough to get the players we need next year. We are at bottom third because we already have above average players in a lot of positions making good money, it is our biggest weaknesses that needs plugged in. A top #1 type WR (Spread the field) and a top #1 type safety (Forces QBs to throw to one side most times) would make a big difference this year and we will be able to afford to get those next year. When all is said and done, we are in better financial shape next year than this year. We will be even after Yanda and Tucker extensions? Even after Flacco restructure? Only two guards are paid at $8 million or more per year. Only one kicker is paid at $4 million range. Yanda is making over $6 million this year, what's another $2 million? That's hardly making the Ravens even for next year. 

[reed20fence]

I think it's starting to dawn on people just how TITANIC the loss of Suggs really was. And not in some nebulous 'leadership' way that kinda gets overblown sometimes. Losing him put a huge dent in our ability to create pressure. It drew more attention to Doom and neutralized him. Slowing the pressure not only adds more time that QBs have to pick apart our secondary but would put strain on any secondary. It also means devoting more bodies up front to manufacture pressure, which further detracts from coverage.

It's becoming evident that yes, we may follow the formula of bringing in a proven vet once SSS leaves, but the bulk of that huge boon we're about to get in cap dollars next year will be spent on building a nightmarish edge on the defensive front.

[ellicottraven]

Hey, we beat the Steelers didn't we? We may not win another game for weeks, but the silver lining is we'll know our weak links and purge them for next season and for the first time in a long time, we'll be getting a high draft pick. Now what we do with it, only time will tell, but at least it is time to rebuild the Ravens in every department - front office personnel, coaching and player personnel. Just purge and replenish the untalented, weak and old and get going Ravens.

[ibrahim9416]

Pees is like the Cam Cameron of this years team...

[EliteRavens]

We're supposed to be intimidating, but instead we let opposing qb throw for 300 yards. Makes no sense

[godc28]

Stay positive. there are a million reasons out there of why we're 1-4 but we could also be 4-1 if a few more things had gone our way. The main reason we've come out on the wrong side in my eyes is haven't played complimentary football in ANY of these 5 games save the 4th quarter and OT versus Pitt. Lately it has been the D more often than not but for a few examples look at the recent game. Even though we dropped 30 on Cleveland we can't have 3 and outs ore possessions that take 2-3mins off the game clock when the defense is injured and struggling. When they were holding up in the first half, where did the Offense go in the 2nd quarter when the browns were cutting the lead down? To me, that is the biggest reason we're in this hole.

[brob99]

I am not one for reactionary moves....but Pees' Defensive scheme/playcalling has never sat well with me, so he gets no slack.

I don't think the talent level is great (and not one TSizzle away from decent), but they are just playing with such bad fundamentals that the coaches have to be held accountable. Pete Carroll is preaching the success of the Seahawk's rugby style tackling, Pees seems to be preaching Matt Elam style tackling. It's pathetic.

[rmcjacket23]

All our loses are within six points or less. We don't need a major overhaul. We basically are one #1 WR and a couple/maybe a few spots mainly on defense from being Super Bowl contenders which we will be able to afford to get next year. We don't need $50-$60 million in cap money to turn around the team's fortune. $30 million is more than enough to get the players we need next year. We are at bottom third because we already have above average players in a lot of positions making good money, it is our biggest weaknesses that needs plugged in. A top #1 type WR (Spread the field) and a top #1 type safety (Forces QBs to throw to one side most times) would make a big difference this year and we will be able to afford to get those next year. When all is said and done, we are in better financial shape next year than this year. We will be even after Yanda and Tucker extensions? Even after Flacco restructure? Only two guards are paid at $8 million or more per year. Only one kicker is paid at $4 million range. Yanda is making over $6 million this year, what's another $2 million? That's hardly making the Ravens even for next year. 

Think you missed the whole "even" concept...

 

Flacco will get an extension. However, unlike some fans think, its probably unrealistic to think Flacco getting an extension is going to get us like $20M in cap space from it. Given that the minimum after paying him a salary and likely another bonus is in the $15M cap hit range, its realistic to think he will probably be in the $18-20M range in cap hit for 2016, which means he really only frees up about $10M in space.

 

That $10M in cap space created is likely gone the moment you sign Yanda and Tucker to extensions, and that assumes we don't sign somebody else to an extension.

 

So, at the end you're back to probably around $15M, before you cut players (which will happen but likely won't create a ton of space) and you sign draft picks. So yes, $30M would be great, except I don't see how you get anywhere near that number. $20M is probably on the ambitious end.

 

You're also significantly short-changing our areas where we need more players. The secondary needs a minimum of two players, a FS for sure and at least a corner. In all likelihood, possibly two corners.

 

You need a WR for sure, and possibly more than one. Given the lack of depth on the OLine at the tackle position, you could use another tackle as well. RB could potentially be an area in need of upgrade as well. And naturally, you need to add at least one pass rusher and likely a defensive end as well.

 

And that's before you start adding depth, which is arguably the greatest need.

 

It doesn't really matter whether you're losing your games by 6 points or 60. When you are 1-4, unless your QB is hurt, you've got a lot more than just one positional need.

[law215]

The season isn't over. Ravens have a lot of young players that should be allowed the opportunity to grow. That's something that fans should look forward to and cheer for. Ravens bid for the playoffs is over. The rest of the season is about talent evaluation. Who to keep, trade, resign, who to draft. Ravens need a LB that can cover run and pass, a corner that can play man coverage, safety can play center field, speed rusher, and a playmaker at Wr. All of these have one theme - team speed.

[brob99]

And whilst I am dishing it out...

Ozzie and co are rightly lorded around the league for their long-term success, but there have bone-headed blunders over the last few seasons that appeared so obvious to everyone. 2013 Going into a season with AQ Shipley and Gino Gradkowski at C was criminal, 2014 not securing a serviceable Nickel corner, and this year being so reliant on a 36 year old wr (Perriman, even if healthy, is a project).

In these cases a probowler wasn't required, just a serviceable veteran.

[terrynjulia03]

The press conference better about Pees being fired, or the rest of my season tickets will be on sale tommorow, face value. I refuse to waste any more hard earned money on this pathetic showing.

[rmcjacket23]

And whilst I am dishing it out... Ozzie and co are rightly lorded around the league for their long-term success, but there have bone-headed blunders over the last few seasons that appeared so obvious to everyone. 2013 Going into a season with AQ Shipley and Gino Gradkowski at C was criminal, 2014 not securing a serviceable Nickel corner, and this year being so reliant on a 36 year old wr (Perriman, even if healthy, is a project). In these cases a probowler wasn't required, just a serviceable veteran.

Serviceable veteran doesn't really solve any long-term problems though.

 

Perhaps that's the issue... Ravens fans have gotten so use to just plugging long-term problems with short-term solutions that they don't realize that its an unsustainable practice long-term.

[rmcjacket23]

The press conference better about Pees being fired, or the rest of my season tickets will be on sale tommorow, face value. I refuse to waste any more hard earned money on this pathetic showing.

No worries. There will be plenty of people willing to pay that price, and the Ravens already got your money, so they don't care.

[cbrook1862]

On defense

1) Get faster and more athletic pass-rushers and LB's. If you look at seattle's defense they are all big, fast, strong and athletic, not just big, strong and stumpy.

2) Get a ballhawk. We aren't getting enough turnovers.

3) Get meaner, nastier, and more aggressive, teams simply don't fear us anymore, we need to get our scary back.

4) We all know it, it's no secret... FIRE DEAN PEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On offense

1) Mix up the playbook, throw on first down half the time and run on first down the other half, add some style and put some tricks in their.

2) Finish drives. Been settling for a Justin Tucker FG way too much

3) Get Joe some DAMN WEAPONS! We have good TE's and solid #2 receivers, but we must get a dynamic receiver, I have no idea what we have with Perriman, he has the worlds slowest healing knee sprain the world has ever seen, and this is SSS last year soooo......what are we gonna do.

[Ravens Raver]

Fer cryin' out loud, somebody hire Ed Reed as secondary coach, or even DC.

[riseNConquer81]

please stop with the ridiculous "not an excuse" rhetoric, its the dumbest most cliche idea in all of sports and never made any sense. What idiot decided to pretend that losing all your stars to injuries shouldnt make a difference and everything should be fine? everything will not be fine. It does make a difference. They wouldnt be destroying the salary cap if they didnt make a difference. injuries are absolutely an excuse, especially when you have this many....

[rmcjacket23]

Fer cryin' out loud, somebody hire Ed Reed as secondary coach, or even DC.

What makes you think he'd be a good coach? Do you know how many elite level players there have been in professional sports that struggled to coach a high school team well?

 

Great players actually rarely make great coaches.

[Purple Dawg 96]

Not going for the Touchdown cost the Ravens that game! You got Williams and Boyle in the redzone and they don't use their size to the Ravens advantage! Joe is not getting it done anymore commentators said he is missing WRs wide open!