Ozzie Newsome (Merged)

[ravensdfan]

the players we get from FA are the players we can afford.

 

so far its been a successful recipe.

 

6 playoff appearances in 7 seasons.

2 afc championship appearances.

2 division titles

1 SB.

 

seems pretty successful to me.

 

i have already seen how your recipes for succes have worked so far and i aint impressed so im sticking with what Ozzie decides to do.

So I see. The point of a football season is just to make the playoffs then? No it isn't. Besides, if you aren't going to follow the actual conversation and address the real points, then stay out of it completely.

 

To bring you up to speed:

 

Aiken

Brown

Perriman (maybe, if he isn't still injuried)

 

you are claiming you believe that is a sufficient STARTING WR corps?

 

And you haven't seen anything that you claim from me because you make claims I never said. Mr. Twisty. Never answers direct questions. Re-directs when proven wrong. And them claims people said things they never said when called out on it.

Edited October 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Once again i feel you lost, but i think wr needs to be in there along with with fs and cb before olb or rb.In this age of the nfl(not saying we need to go all offense),with Joe as our guy were building around and the money we're investing,we need an 1 and 2 and possibly 3 recievers that strike fear in any opponent we play.Especially with the defenses in the north.The we put rb and olb before wr every time is why we always have it as a need.Just saying.

We lack a pass rush. Which is far more important than having weapons. If we're going to adopt our old identity, which is what Ozzie has been trying to prime. We also lack a secondary player outside of Jimmy and Will Hill. Again, more important thing we can give Flacco is a good defense, and ours has pieces(we just happen to be young), and a good oline. Which he has a pretty solid one. And you need a good running game to set up the pass. We don't have a good RB. We have a decent one.

WR is a need. Do not get me wrong. We have more pressing ones we need. If we go get a FA(Garcon and Vjax fit best here) that will help out with the problem.

We have more pressing needs

[ravensdfan]

We lack a pass rush. Which is far more important than having weapons. If we're going to adopt our old identity, which is what Ozzie has been trying to prime. We also lack a secondary player outside of Jimmy and Will Hill. Again, more important thing we can give Flacco is a good defense, and ours has pieces(we just happen to be young), and a good oline. Which he has a pretty solid one. And you need a good running game to set up the pass. We don't have a good RB. We have a decent one.

WR is a need. Do not get me wrong. We have more pressing ones we need. If we go get a FA(Garcon and Vjax fit best here) that will help out with the problem.

We have more pressing needs

Old identity? That is a relic of the past. The NFL is way too offense friendly for our old identity. Though I miss it.

[Tru11]

So I see. The point of a football season is just to make the playoffs then? No it isn't. Besides, if you aren't going to follow the actual conversation and address the real points, then stay out of it completely.

 

To bring you up to speed:

 

Aiken

Brown

Perriman (maybe, if he isn't still injuried)

 

you are claiming you believe that is a sufficient STARTING WR corps?

 

And you haven't seen anything that you claim from me because you make claims I never said. Mr. Twisty. Never answers direct questions. Re-directs when proven wrong. And them claims people said things they never said when called out on it.

 

lol so we where not successful these past seasons?

 

alright then.

 

also mr twisty?

 

how old are you     

 

sorry said to behave so i wont be biting on this lol

[ravensdfan]

lol so we where not successful these past seasons?

 

alright then.

 

also mr twisty?

 

how old are you     

 

sorry said to behave so i wont be biting on this lol

So you aren't going to answer the direct question yet again?

 

Is that a sufficient and NFL caliber starting WR corps in your opinion? Because that is what the discussion was about.

[-Truth-]

I'd love to nab a Julio Jones type via the draft or free agency, but an elite WR isn't an absolute necessity for a championship run. Two above average WRs would be enough on the outside as long as the other pieces are there, i.e. steady running game, quality QB, dependable TE, etc.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

So I see. The point of a football season is just to make the playoffs then? No it isn't. Besides, if you aren't going to follow the actual conversation and address the real points, then stay out of it completely.

To bring you up to speed:

Aiken

Brown

Perriman (maybe, if he isn't still injuried)

you are claiming you believe that is a sufficient STARTING WR corps?

And you haven't seen anything that you claim from me because you make claims I never said. Mr. Twisty. Never answers direct questions. Re-directs when proven wrong. And them claims people said things they never said when called out on it.

You're ignoring the fact that it's in the process of becoming sufficient and convienently leaving out Crockett who has flashed and has played well this year, and Maxx, who has not only flashed but has a higher ceiling than your typical TE prospect.

We lack one guy when SSR leaves it's a whole lot of unproven though. Which is another reason I want a veteran. You say that we need to draft WRs, but then knock me for bringing up Maxx and Crockett, and Breshad for saying they're unproven.

And let's talk about that. If you make the playoffs consistently you're doing your job as a GM. Sure, the point is to win a SB, but some teams go DECADES without winning one, and we've always been in contention. And the WR corps was NEVER the problem during that run. We had pretty solid ones. Lee Evans may had screwed us over, but are you really going to say "That means the whole WR corps was weak" despite us having Torrey, Boldin, Pitta, and Dickson who had a good year that year. Not to mention Ray Rice as the RB and a pretty good oline. Pittsburgh was the defene's fault. They gave up a lead that one time. Sure, TJ dropping it on the last play hurts a ton, but that's not why they lost.

So yeah... Ozzie has been doing his job. He hasn't been neglecting Flacco like you said. Sure, he's not drafting it, he's bringing in a proven guy to take care of the job. He didn't do it after the SB well.. Let me put it this way. We STILL almost made the playoffs and probably would have if we had a capable offensive line. And Pitta.

You may not like the veteran acquisitions(which is what this argument was about anyways). But they work. WR started becoming a need when Boldin left. And while I am mad somewhat that we didn't take a Keenan Allen. I understand the approach Ozzie has taken. He built from the middle out, and a lot of these acquisitions have worked. Daryl, Dumervil, CJ(who may be having a down year but is still flashing his old self. Something's not right with him lately), Brandon, Jernigan, hell I can put Carl Davis down here too. He's been good. So has ZDS. All are good players, one of them (CJ) is going to be great. We lack a piece here or there without Suggs.Oline wise we built one. KO and Yanda remain the same but now we have Monroe who's been good since returning, Wagner who still is adjusting from returning from injury but has slowly been improving every game, and Zuttah who may be mediocre but is good enough to get the job done. We have two missing pieces in the front 7 and I have no doubts we address both this year. Daryl's replacement, and Sugg's replacment. And since it's a little easier to find an ILB, I like our odds of finding that one. And the defense(primarily the secondary. We have two good pieces there, three if Pees decided to put Arrington in the slot where he belongs) has been okay. The secondary and lack of pass rush(even though you hate Pees. You have to admit the last one here is due to injuries if anything) has really bitten us in the butt. More than lack of WR has this year.

Offensively, we have a lot to build around. A solid oline, and a few good TEs, and a potentially very good WR around Perriman who just hasn't been healthy, and Aiken is a servicable option. I think he's a #3 option. I think we're missing a veteran WR in the future and that's the route we need to go. A veteran there helps the others learn how to run routes and such. We'll probably draft one in the middle rounds rather then spending a high pick. Because a vet(give or take Garcon or Vjax) does temporarily solve a problem there. We have issues that far outweigh WRs draft wise.

[PurpleCity5]

I'd love to nab a Julio Jones type via the draft or free agency, but an elite WR isn't an absolute necessity for a championship run. Two above average WRs would be enough on the outside as long as the other pieces are there, i.e. steady running game, quality QB, dependable TE, etc.

I'd rather have two Good WRs and an elite defense quiet honestly. Torrey and Boldin were two good WRs and look at where that got us. You don't need an elite WR. As much as I'd love to have one I think Perriman and a Vet. WR would be fine. I think we have to take care of this defense during the draft and FA.

Edited October 21, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I'd love to nab a Julio Jones type via the draft or free agency, but an elite WR isn't an absolute necessity for a championship run. Two above average WRs would be enough on the outside as long as the other pieces are there, i.e. steady running game, quality QB, dependable TE, etc.

And it's regardless of age for that matter. Sure Perriman is unproven, but if he is Torrey Smith 2.0 as the media "proclaims" then that's an above average WR. We honestly have pieces in place next year to allow an immediate turnaround but everyone is looking at the record and not the pieces.

People. We've been in every game we've lost this year. If we've come close to winning every game and lose most of them. Then the team is more unlucky than horrible.

I have little doubt we'll turn it around. And that's why Ozzie, Harbs, and Flacco are all safe.

[Tru11]

So you aren't going to answer the direct question yet again?

 

Is that a sufficient and NFL caliber starting WR corps in your opinion? Because that is what the discussion was about.

 

its impossible to answer a question that is set in the future.

 

if those 3 guys are the only receivers on the roster and thus the default starters when the season starts then yeah you have a point.

 

i simply doubt the possibility of that going to be the case.

you can form your opinion on that if you want but i wont.

 

alot can happen between now and then.

 

again  ozzie method so far has proven to work so i believe if he keeps true to his recipe we would have enough firepower next season.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Tru11

[ravensdfan]

You're ignoring the fact that it's in the process of becoming sufficient and convienently leaving out Crockett who has flashed and has played well this year, and Maxx, who has not only flashed but has a higher ceiling than your typical TE prospect.

We lack one guy when SSR leaves it's a whole lot of unproven though. Which is another reason I want a veteran. You say that we need to draft WRs, but then knock me for bringing up Maxx and Crockett, and Breshad for saying they're unproven.

And let's talk about that. If you make the playoffs consistently you're doing your job as a GM. Sure, the point is to win a SB, but some teams go DECADES without winning one, and we've always been in contention. And the WR corps was NEVER the problem during that run. We had pretty solid ones. Lee Evans may had screwed us over, but are you really going to say "That means the whole WR corps was weak" despite us having Torrey, Boldin, Pitta, and Dickson who had a good year that year. Not to mention Ray Rice as the RB and a pretty good oline. Pittsburgh was the defene's fault. They gave up a lead that one time. Sure, TJ dropping it on the last play hurts a ton, but that's not why they lost.

So yeah... Ozzie has been doing his job. He hasn't been neglecting Flacco like you said. Sure, he's not drafting it, he's bringing in a proven guy to take care of the job. He didn't do it after the SB well.. Let me put it this way. We STILL almost made the playoffs and probably would have if we had a capable offensive line. And Pitta.

You may not like the veteran acquisitions(which is what this argument was about anyways). But they work. WR started becoming a need when Boldin left. And while I am mad somewhat that we didn't take a Keenan Allen. I understand the approach Ozzie has taken. He built from the middle out, and a lot of these acquisitions have worked. Daryl, Dumervil, CJ(who may be having a down year but is still flashing his old self. Something's not right with him lately), Brandon, Jernigan, hell I can put Carl Davis down here too. He's been good. So has ZDS. All are good players, one of them (CJ) is going to be great. We lack a piece here or there without Suggs.Oline wise we built one. KO and Yanda remain the same but now we have Monroe who's been good since returning, Wagner who still is adjusting from returning from injury but has slowly been improving every game, and Zuttah who may be mediocre but is good enough to get the job done. We have two missing pieces in the front 7 and I have no doubts we address both this year. Daryl's replacement, and Sugg's replacment. And since it's a little easier to find an ILB, I like our odds of finding that one. And the defense(primarily the secondary. We have two good pieces there, three if Pees decided to put Arrington in the slot where he belongs) has been okay. The secondary and lack of pass rush(even though you hate Pees. You have to admit the last one here is due to injuries if anything) has really bitten us in the butt. More than lack of WR has this year.

Offensively, we have a lot to build around. A solid oline, and a few good TEs, and a potentially very good WR around Perriman who just hasn't been healthy, and Aiken is a servicable option. I think he's a #3 option. I think we're missing a veteran WR in the future and that's the route we need to go. A veteran there helps the others learn how to run routes and such. We'll probably draft one in the middle rounds rather then spending a high pick. Because a vet(give or take Garcon or Vjax) does temporarily solve a problem there. We have issues that far outweigh WRs draft wise.

 

We are 19-19 since the SB. Not all, certainly not all, but a lot of that is a result of having a below average receiving corps. Not just this year but in 2013 as well, which is only 2 years ago. You want to say it works, and if you dredge up history, you can make a solid case. But if you look at actual recent history, it actually hasn't.

And it's regardless of age for that matter. Sure Perriman is unproven, but if he is Torrey Smith 2.0 as the media "proclaims" then that's an above average WR. We honestly have pieces in place next year to allow an immediate turnaround but everyone is looking at the record and not the pieces.

People. We've been in every game we've lost this year. If we've come close to winning every game and lose most of them. Then the team is more unlucky than horrible.

I have little doubt we'll turn it around. And that's why Ozzie, Harbs, and Flacco are all safe.

That goes without saying. In no way am I trying to say that Ozzie needs to go. I just think that based on recent history, the way we go into the draft needs to be tweaked. 

 

its impossible to answer a question that is set in the future.

 

if those 3 guys are the only receivers on the roster and thus the default starters when the season starts then yeah you have a point.

 

i simply doubt the possibility of that going to be the case.

you can form your opinion on that if you want but i wont.

 

alot can happen between now and then.

 

again  ozzie method so far has proven to work so i believe if he keeps true to his recipe we would have enough firepower next season.

We were told these WRs were great. Were awesome. Were solid. All reports from camp were about how they were overachieving and we did nothing in FA to shore up that area. So I am not as certain as you it will get addressed.

[JoeyFlex5]

I agree with what you said. 

 

If our losing trend continues and we end up with a top 10 pick (top 5 at this rate), what do you think the over/under will be that Ozzie trades down?

 

We all know it'll happen. 

the ravens are looking like a top 5 drafting team, if this happens, and jared goff is available at our pick, do you realize what that does for us? while youll be begging for us to reach for laquon treadwell or tyler boyd in the top 5, chicago, NO, and KC will be in a bidding war for our pick, so we will trade back, likely remain in the top 10, get an extra 2nd round pick in the top 10, get a decent first round pick next year, and maybe even more depending on how much we can drive up the price. that is a top 10 pick, 2 top 10 picks in the 2nd round, and 2 first round picks the following year with the trade pick very possibly coming in the top half depending on our trade partners success. 

 

a FAR better move for this team than to draft a player in the top 5 just because some fans are desperate for a star players.

[Tru11]

We are 19-19 since the SB. Not all, certainly not all, but a lot of that is a result of having a below average receiving corps. Not just this year but in 2013 as well, which is only 2 years ago. You want to say it works, and if you dredge up history, you can make a solid case. But if you look at actual recent history, it actually hasn't.

That goes without saying. In no way am I trying to say that Ozzie needs to go. I just think that based on recent history, the way we go into the draft needs to be tweaked. 

 

We were told these WRs were great. Were awesome. Were solid. All reports from camp were about how they were overachieving and we did nothing in FA to shore up that area. So I am not as certain as you it will get addressed.

 

well it aint my fault people felt for the hype.

 

i certainly did not buy it.

 

i was laughing at the people that suggested to bench torrey for aiken last year and certainly those who where comparing butler and aiken to boldin lol.

 

if you can find those threads you can look it up.

 

if perriman smith and camp where healthy we would probably not have this discussion.

[-Truth-]

I'd rather have two Good WRs and an elite defense quiet honestly. Torrey and Boldin were to good WRs and look at where that got us. You don't need an elite WR. As much as I'd love to have one I think Perriman and a Vet. WR would be fine. I think we have to take care of this defense during the draft and FA.

Right there with you. Definitely a good example too.

[Static]

We haven't seen if Perriman is above average yet.

[ravensdan]

LOL No the formula does not work. It has not worked since Mason outside of Boldin & SSS now. Not even sure Mason can be counted as part of that formula. In fact, that "formula" is in part why we are 1-5. Guarantee if we had not been using that formula and had drafted a Perriman (high rd WR) other than once in the last what now? 7 years? 6 years? something like that, we would have managed a win in at least 2 of our 3 losses.

Edit: In fact, not sure you can count Boldin since he wasn't really old by the formula's standards. He was still under 35.

Considering the WR position has not cost us a single game this year and has yet to propel any team to a super bowl and the winning formula this teams front office employs consistently puts this team amongst a handful of teams competing for a championship nearly every year no you would be wrong.

[ravensdan]

I honestly think so. We are going to have to rebuild entirely and his recent history and age tend to indicate his position needs to be part of that process.

If we finish 3-13, we'll be finishing stronger than we've started.

I get it losing to the Browns is the most embarrassing loss in all my years of this team going back to 96. That doesn't mean a wholesale change after one season is called for. You have to look at the big picture. Well you don't as long as the decision makers continue to.

[-Truth-]

And it's regardless of age for that matter. Sure Perriman is unproven, but if he is Torrey Smith 2.0 as the media "proclaims" then that's an above average WR. We honestly have pieces in place next year to allow an immediate turnaround but everyone is looking at the record and not the pieces.

People. We've been in every game we've lost this year. If we've come close to winning every game and lose most of them. Then the team is more unlucky than horrible.

I have little doubt we'll turn it around. And that's why Ozzie, Harbs, and Flacco are all safe.

I'm board with everything said here. Perriman is unproven and will continue to be until he sees the field. That being said, he has a promising set of tools and I hope that he gives us a stretch of active games this season so that we can have a glimpse into the future. I do feel that we can contend next season with the right offseason and we do have more talent than our record indicates.

[January J]

The Denver Broncos are winning this year with defense alone.

[ravensdan]

Oh and Joe Flacco is 29 mil against the cap next season. LOL... lets pray for a restructure, I think Joe Flacco is worth 8.5 mil per year.

8.5 mil. Lol. Now that is the most laughable thing I've seen. And there's a lot of laughable comments being thrown around nowadays. I'm still not convinced we want a restructure. You should really look at some current contracts.

[ravensdan]

You guys talking down on Maxx do realize him and Boyle are the top rated rookie TEs by PFF, right?

http://imgur.com/mZDKrHa

That was before last week....

Tied at first and second in catches for rookie tight ends.

[Edgar]

Funny cause we won the SB with an LT and C we picked up in FA. Also a traded for our starting wr too. We haven't had the picks the Steelers or Bengals have had. Before last year, the Steelers hadn't made the post season since 11. The abengals for years had top picks due to a dry spell. The Browns... well, they're the Browns.

True enough. But keep in mind we are often replacing players we have drafted(Oher,Gradkowski) that haven't worked out and doing it by spending additional draft picks. We are left now with a team that doesn't know itself.

We also had some pretty good players who WERE draft picks on the team that won the super bowl.

[Inqui]

I'd love to nab a Julio Jones type via the draft or free agency, but an elite WR isn't an absolute necessity for a championship run. Two above average WRs would be enough on the outside as long as the other pieces are there, i.e. steady running game, quality QB, dependable TE, etc.

This is going to sound crazy, but I actually think building the running game to the point where it's a genuinely dominant force might be our best bet to become an AFC powerhouse again.

 

If we do that, that should come a big way in helping our red zone offence, and would let us make comparatively minor additions to the receiving group (also not forgetting the leaps our TEs should take during the next three years) but still let Joe spread his wings. We saw him have a career year last year as an unashamed run-first QB and focusing on a top-shelf running game and letting the rest of the pieces fall together might be easier than trying to make our unit anything like the 2013 Broncos. It's actually kind of a shame Leonard Fournette isn't eligible until next year.

[JoeyFlex5]

well it aint my fault people felt for the hype.

 

i certainly did not buy it.

 

i was laughing at the people that suggested to bench torrey for aiken last year and certainly those who where comparing butler and aiken to boldin lol.

 

if you can find those threads you can look it up.

 

if perriman smith and camp where healthy we would probably not have this discussion.

i still, for the life of me, cannot understand how so many people just ate up the hype by the spoonful, i mean people really thought that jeremy butler was gonna be some superstar outta nowhere, they thought aiken was gonna literally quadruple his production last year with ease, they thought for the past 3 years that marlon brown was quite literally our future #1... i swear it is the anti-stigma of a tall wr, if a wr is 6'2" or more(like everyone on that list) then the bandwagon is immediately full steam ahead and everyone is expecting that wr to be the next megatron or aj green, it doesnt work like that, most absurdly tall wr's are horrible because for someone that big to be coordinated and athletic enough to be a well rounded WR is extremely rare.

[Edgar]

i still, for the life of me, cannot understand how so many people just ate up the hype by the spoonful, i mean people really thought that jeremy butler was gonna be some superstar outta nowhere, they thought aiken was gonna literally quadruple his production last year with ease, they thought for the past 3 years that marlon brown was quite literally our future #1... i swear it is the anti-stigma of a tall wr, if a wr is 6'2" or more(like everyone on that list) then the bandwagon is immediately full steam ahead and everyone is expecting that wr to be the next megatron or aj green, it doesnt work like that, most absurdly tall wr's are horrible because for someone that big to be coordinated and athletic enough to be a well rounded WR is extremely rare.

Tons of hype. Much of it straight from the Ravens players/coaches/Ozzie,not just the fan base. Remember Steven means?.....butler?

Carter? Melvin island?

[JoeyFlex5]

Tons of hype. Much of it straight from the Ravens players/coaches/Ozzie,not just the fan base. Remember Steven means?.....butler?

Carter? Melvin island?

thats how it goes though, coaches arent gonna bash their players throughout training camp, and as soon as one guy shows a good motor, reporters are gonna throw their names on the next article, and when the hype train gets rolling people suddenly lose any sense of "show me". i mean butler did almost literally nothing the entire preseason and some were even surprised he got cut because reporters said he had good practices lol. fans need to take it upon themselves to realize that some players are downright bad and reporters can be even worse 

[Guest]

I get it losing to the Browns is the most embarrassing loss in all my years of this team going back to 96. That doesn't mean a wholesale change after one season is called for. You have to look at the big picture. Well you don't as long as the decision makers continue to.

 

It is a big picture analysis now.

 

What really has us worried is not this year any longer.

[ravensdfan]

well it aint my fault people felt for the hype.

 

i certainly did not buy it.

 

i was laughing at the people that suggested to bench torrey for aiken last year and certainly those who where comparing butler and aiken to boldin lol.

 

if you can find those threads you can look it up.

 

if perriman smith and camp where healthy we would probably not have this discussion.

I am not worried about fans buying into the hype. Who cares? But apparently the FO and the coaching staff bought into as well.

[PurpleCity5]

This is going to sound crazy, but I actually think building the running game to the point where it's a genuinely dominant force might be our best bet to become an AFC powerhouse again.

 

If we do that, that should come a big way in helping our red zone offence, and would let us make comparatively minor additions to the receiving group (also not forgetting the leaps our TEs should take during the next three years) but still let Joe spread his wings. We saw him have a career year last year as an unashamed run-first QB and focusing on a top-shelf running game and letting the rest of the pieces fall together might be easier than trying to make our unit anything like the 2013 Broncos. It's actually kind of a shame Leonard Fournette isn't eligible until next year.

I agree with you. I want to continue to build on the offensive line and allow it to be dominant. I'd like to have a guy like Ronnie Stanley here. I think the only tweak I'd make at WR is to add a #2. I like Aiken and Camp, but good god Campanaro needs to stay healthy lol.

 

I really want to build on this defense, its pure trouble.

[-Truth-]

This is going to sound crazy, but I actually think building the running game to the point where it's a genuinely dominant force might be our best bet to become an AFC powerhouse again.

 

If we do that, that should come a big way in helping our red zone offence, and would let us make comparatively minor additions to the receiving group (also not forgetting the leaps our TEs should take during the next three years) but still let Joe spread his wings. We saw him have a career year last year as an unashamed run-first QB and focusing on a top-shelf running game and letting the rest of the pieces fall together might be easier than trying to make our unit anything like the 2013 Broncos. It's actually kind of a shame Leonard Fournette isn't eligible until next year.

A dominant running game will always go a long way. Definitely a shame on the latter. Haven't seen much of him but I've obviously heard great things.