Ozzie Newsome (Merged)

[ravensdfan]

Okay. Then if you count Stokley then we're 3/4... That's a .750 batting average. Sorry. It works. You may hate it. But bringing in a vet is fine. I'd rather do that since Ozzie's track record drafting the damn WRs is poor. Sorry ravensdfan. I highly doubt we take a high WR.

We're not 3/4 lmbo

 

TJ, Evans, - man I don't even want to go look at all of them because it is depressing to see what the FO has expected Flacco to make work when you put it all together like that. But that still makes it 3/6. 50/50. Not so good. Oh wait, there was Stallworth too. Now 3/7. Not even 50/50.

Edited October 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

TJ: dropped a perfectly placed pass (and a TD one I believe as well) that would have at the very least kept the drive alive in the playoffs.

Lee Evans: dropped a perfectly placed pass for a TD that would have sent us to a SB.

Boldin: (yep, him too) Also dropped a TD pass.

Stokley, Clark, please don't blame the O line for them. They were so old & slow it wasn't even funny. It was downright painful to watch them run.

2013 & this season are in part, not in entirety, a direct result of the "formula".

If you are content to be an also ran every year, then the formula might work.

TJ was a WR #3 we picked up beggining of the year who was lackluster in part because our team had no speed. It was a good acquisition at the time that ended up not working but he was the #3. Not a major loss here.

Lee Evans was a trade that backfired due to injury. He dropped that pass sure, but honestly to blame that on Ozzie is utterly foolish,

Boldin. Big reason we won the SB so to call that anyting BUT a success is foolish,

Sure they were slow, but Clark did have a few good plays here and Stokley got hurt. And Clark was a move of sheer desperation that Ozzie could not have possibly anticpated making.

So what, Boldin, Mason, SSR. You're counting Evans which is fair but injury. Then there's TJ. Clark was a move of desperation he had to make and there was no one better on the market and he did make some plays for us so I wouldn't call that a loss. Then if you're counting TEs Owen Daniels was a success.

Boldin-hit

Mason-hit

SSR-hit

Clark-hit considering everything involved. The fact that he was able to make a few positive plays does not make him bad at all

Daniels-hit.

Stokley-miss due to injury. Cannot truly blame Ozzie here

Lee Evans-miss

TJ Miss.

So 5/8.

Better than average. And two of those misses were large in part due to injuries.

And that track record is a hell of a lot better than his drafting track record.

[ravensdfan]

TJ was a WR #3 we picked up beggining of the year who was lackluster in part because our team had no speed. It was a good acquisition at the time that ended up not working but he was the #3. Not a major loss here.

Lee Evans was a trade that backfired due to injury. He dropped that pass sure, but honestly to blame that on Ozzie is utterly foolish,

Boldin. Big reason we won the SB so to call that anyting BUT a success is foolish,

Sure they were slow, but Clark did have a few good plays here and Stokley got hurt. And Clark was a move of sheer desperation that Ozzie could not have possibly anticpated making.

So what, Boldin, Mason, SSR. You're counting Evans which is fair but injury. Then there's TJ. Clark was a move of desperation he had to make and there was no one better on the market and he did make some plays for us so I wouldn't call that a loss. Then if you're counting TEs Owen Daniels was a success.

Boldin-hit

Mason-hit

SSR-hit

Clark-hit considering everything involved. The fact that he was able to make a few positive plays does not make him bad at all

Daniels-hit.

Stokley-miss due to injury. Cannot truly blame Ozzie here

Lee Evans-miss

TJ Miss.

So 5/8.

Better than average. And two of those misses were large in part due to injuries.

And that track record is a hell of a lot better than his drafting track record.

Stallworth! Seriously, the record is going down down down. No, injury doesn't excuse it. Why? Because they are OLD! Makes them more injury prone. Don't make me actually go look. You can't have a drafting record really when you rarely spend over a 4th rd pick on something.

 

No way Stokley & Clark are hits. No. Please. They were god awful. I think Clark even got sat.

 

oh wait! Kelley Washington! omg. This is truly painful.

 

I mean even if you count what his face, oh man, the one we drafted for returns and that was literally all he did here - always forget his name - I think Ozzie is 1/4 or something in the draft with anything over a 4th rd.

Edited October 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Injured.. Again. And horribly misused by Cam btw. And a #4 WR?

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Yes, because Ozzie would rather go get an option that has done something with his career at a position he historically has drafted poorly at. Travis Taylor, Patrick Johnson, Devard Darling, Mark Clayton turned out to be decent, Tandon Doss was bad at WR. When you're only hit is Torrey there's a problem

[52liveforever]

I'm pretty sure it's fairly obvious where to go in the draft. Our secondary is terrible.

Joe may be making some bad plays, but I think it's b.c he's trying to force things to win. If you look at this season with that in mind Joe has proven he can get points on the board regardless the cast. Our secondary SUCKS. It needs help .

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

This will put the argument to rest. We've had three major succeses when getting a vet. Boldin, Mason, and SSR. The only catastrophic failure you could bring up is Evans. And even then he got injured. TJ at least made positive plays here and there, and Donte Stallworth was not only injured but hardly ever used. Stokley was injured, and Dallas Clark was good under the circumstances. Owen Daniels was very good. Hell, add Jacoby Jones. He was not much of a WR but he did make an occasional big play there. Including one of the greatest plays of all time. So that was a success. Kelley Washington. Remember him. Was not bad at all. Not great. But not bad either.

Evans is the only failure that comes to mind that cost us anyting. We deserved to win that game. But we lost the one vs Pittsburgh as a team and we don't even know if we would have won if TJ catches it.

We have had one success in the draft under Ozzie Newsome recently: Torrey Smith. Who is nothing more than a deep threat. A damn good one, but nothing mroe.

It's clear we have more success there in FA. Case and point. Even if Perriman turns out successful, I want us to go get a vet.

Edited October 20, 2015 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[ravensdfan]

Yes, because Ozzie would rather go get an option that has done something with his career at a position he historically has drafted poorly at. Travis Taylor, Patrick Johnson, Devard Darling, Mark Clayton turned out to be decent, Tandon Doss was bad at WR. When you're only hit is Torrey there's a problem

If you are counting Stokley & Clark as hits than Travis gets a hit. He produced better than either of them. Shoot better than both of them combined.  I think Johnson did as well. Darling - miss. Clayton - eh 50/50 - hard to evalute since the injury once he left here. Doss - miss.

[ravensdfan]

This will put the argument to rest. We've had three major succeses when getting a vet. Boldin, Mason, and SSR. The only catastrophic failure you could bring up is Evans. And even then he got injured. TJ at least made positive plays here and there, and Donte Stallworth was not only injured but hardly ever used. Stokley was injured, and Dallas Clark was good under the circumstances. Owen Daniels was very good. Hell, add Jacoby Jones. He was not much of a WR but he did make an occasional big play there. Including one of the greatest plays of all time. So that was a success. Kelley Washington. Remember him. Was not bad at all. Not great. But not bad either.

Evans is the only failure that comes to mind that cost us anyting. We deserved to win that game. But we lost the one vs Pittsburgh as a team and we don't even know if we would have won if TJ catches it.

We have had one success in the draft under Ozzie Newsome recently: Torrey Smith. Who is nothing more than a deep threat. A damn good one, but nothing mroe.

It's clear we have more success there in FA. Case and point. Even if Perriman turns out successful, I want us to go get a vet.

It does cost us. It costs us seasons like 2013 and this year. It costs us any consistency. It costs us moving forward and getting better. It costs us always being a road team in the playoffs. These things add up. It isn't just the one big play they miss. That is missing the forest for the trees.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

If you are counting Stokley & Clark as hits than Travis gets a hit. He produced better than either of them. Shoot better than both of them combined.  I think Johnson did as well. Darling - miss. Clayton - eh 50/50 - hard to evalute since the injury once he left here. Doss - miss.

I counted Clark as a hit because of the circumstances. Last second desperation mood and no one better on the open market. And he actually did not do bad for us. He wasn't great either, but he had his share of positive plays here.

Stokely was injuries and I cannot blame Ozzie for that. Same goes for Stallworth. I'll give you Evans. Hell, I'll give you TJ. But Taylor was gone after 4 years and then was obscure. Johnson wasn't that good. And Darling was a miss, and Clayton wasn't very good either.

His track record with FA has had three major successes. All three better than any WR he has ever drafted.

So yes, it works. Without Q and Jacoby ,we don't win a SB. Without SSR last year, we do not make the playoffs, without Mason we do not make the playoffs Flacco's first two years. As long as Flacco has been here, it has worked. So honestly, I'd rather go get a vet I know that we could get a good season or two out of then a WR that Ozzie will probably evaluate poorly and has a high likelihood of being a bust.

[RaineV1]

I'm fine with going for a veteran receiver as long as it's not someone at the end of their career. Someone like Marvin Jones would be great if the Ravens are willing to move some money around.

[ravensdfan]

I'm fine with going for a veteran receiver as long as it's not someone at the end of their career. Someone like Marvin Jones would be great if the Ravens are willing to move some money around.

That typically isn't who we get in FA though. We get guys on their farewell tour cuz they're cheap.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I'm fine with going for a veteran receiver as long as it's not someone at the end of their career. Someone like Marvin Jones would be great if the Ravens are willing to move some money around.

Eh, IDK. I'd like a Vincent Jackson. Sure he's a bit older but he has like 3-5 years of good ball left.

I actually think we go get someone along the lines of a Rueban Randle. He's a solid player. Makes good catches and runs good routes. Young, would mesh with Flacco. It makes sense

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

That typically isn't who we get in FA though. We get guys on their farewell tour cuz they're cheap.

Mason played here for five years. Age 31. end of prime before end of career. Not a farewell tour.

Boldin was 30. Still playing today. Here for 3 years. Not farewell tour when he was with us.

Jacoby? Please.

TJ

SSR and Stokely, sure. One was a desperation move and the other was cheap.

But to say that for all.. Is wrong

Edited October 20, 2015 by LosT_in_TranSlatioN

[nyc9192]

Yes, because Ozzie would rather go get an option that has done something with his career at a position he historically has drafted poorly at. Travis Taylor, Patrick Johnson, Devard Darling, Mark Clayton turned out to be decent, Tandon Doss was bad at WR. When you're only hit is Torrey there's a problem

I feel you Lost but there were some blatant misses that for some reason or not Ozzie didn't pick up.I can still remember in 2013 screaming at the tv for him to pick up keenan allen in the 3rd round(Rookie of the year or a Jordan Matthews in 2014 in the 2nd(even if we had to do a trade).Alshon Jeffery in 2012 instead of trading back to get courtney upshaw.I understand that you can't predict how these guys skills will translate to the league but that never stopped him on defense.Kindle,Cody,Elam,Brown,Upshaw could all be used as examples of busts but we still pump out picks on the defense we understand that drafting isn't a science.Also I think alot of our picks hit because we had a framework core of Lewis,Reed,Ngata and Suggs and many guys would look good next to them(which would explain why most defenders that leave Baltimore in FA really dont do anything expectations wise).Im sure if we had a definite 1 and 2 combo, we could add average wrs and they could work. On last example is how with a talented class of receivers in 2014 ozzie managed to only come away with Camp in the 7th round.We never really got a good gauge of Ozzies receiver drafting skill in the Flacco era because he literally uses the last picks to pick them up,which lets be honest, those guys are most likely going to the practice squad.

Edited October 20, 2015 by nyc9192

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I feel you Lost but there were some blatant misses that for some reason or not Ozzie didn't pick up.I can still remember in 2013 screaming at the tv for him to pick up keenan allen in the 3rd round(Rookie of the year or a Jordan Matthews in 2014 in the 2nd(even if we had to do a trade).Alshon Jeffery in 2012 instead of trading back to get courtney upshaw.I understand that you can't predict how these guys skills will translate to the league but that never stopped him on defense.Kindle,Cody,Elam,Brown,Upshaw could all be used as examples of busts but we still pump out picks on the defense we understand that drafting isn't a science.Also I think alot of our picks hit because we had a framework core of Lewis,Reed,Ngata and Suggs and many guys would look good next to them(which would explain why most defenders that leave Baltimore in FA really dont do anything expectations wise).Im sure if we had a definite 1 and 2 combo, we could add average wrs and they could work. On last example is how with a talented class of receivers in 2014 ozzie managed to only come away with Camp in the 7th round.We never really got a good gauge of Ozzies receiver drafting skill in the Flacco era because he literally uses

the last picks to pick them up,which lets be honest, those guys are most likely going to the practice squad.

Hindsight is 20/20. Kindle was not a bust because of Ozzie. We had no idea. And Elam could still possibly turn it around.

Ozzie takes the BPA. Many dissagree with the method but I see it's stregnths. He makes picks that make the team better as a whole. Mosely and Jernigan may be having sophmore slumps but even then have had plays where they look like they did last year. BPA is something I convey a lot because genrally it does make the team better. CJ and Jernigan are pretty darn good. As is Carl Davis who was also a BPA pick. Maxx? We traded up to get him because of BPA. And Elam was in a horrid draft class tbh. Allen is a good WR yes, but that class is just awful.

I'm happy with Jernigan and Mosley over Jordan Matthews tbh. Jeffery is better than Upshaw and Allen is better than Brown and Elam. I'll admit that. But I'm happy with most of the players I have. We've been putting up points with this crappy corp. And we're missing a few players. I think if Campanaro ever finds a way to stay healthy(and btw. I do think his IRing is a precautionary thing), and Perriman makes improvements suddenly the corps turns around. We already have two good TEs.

We just need a veteran to help out. It's why I want one. We need a leader there.

[nyc9192]

Hindsight is 20/20. Kindle was not a bust because of Ozzie. We had no idea. And Elam could still possibly turn it around.

Ozzie takes the BPA. Many dissagree with the method but I see it's stregnths. He makes picks that make the team better as a whole. Mosely and Jernigan may be having sophmore slumps but even then have had plays where they look like they did last year. BPA is something I convey a lot because genrally it does make the team better. CJ and Jernigan are pretty darn good. As is Carl Davis who was also a BPA pick. Maxx? We traded up to get him because of BPA. And Elam was in a horrid draft class tbh. Allen is a good WR yes, but that class is just awful.

I'm happy with Jernigan and Mosley over Jordan Matthews tbh. Jeffery is better than Upshaw and Allen is better than Brown and Elam. I'll admit that. But I'm happy with most of the players I have. We've been putting up points with this crappy corp. And we're missing a few players. I think if Campanaro ever finds a way to stay healthy(and btw. I do think his IRing is a precautionary thing), and Perriman makes improvements suddenly the corps turns around. We already have two good TEs.

We just need a veteran to help out. It's why I want one. We need a leader there.

Agreed.I just wish sometimes we go for need instead of BPA when it comes to reciever or corner.When the front seven has a need whether its bpa or not,ozzie gets it.Just wish he would show the same love to the corps and secondary.

[ravensdfan]

Mason played here for five years. Age 31. end of prime before end of career. Not a farewell tour.

Boldin was 30. Still playing today. Here for 3 years. Not farewell tour when he was with us.

Jacoby? Please.

TJ

SSR and Stokely, sure. One was a desperation move and the other was cheap.

But to say that for all.. Is wrong

You only remember the ones who fit your narrative. Washington. TJ. SSR. Stokley. Evans. That is 5 to your 3. I'd count Stallworth but that was a different situation.

Edited October 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

You only remember the ones who fit your narrative. Washington. TJ. SSR. Stokley. Evans. That is 5 to your 3.

Still. It's a greater success rate than drafting one. Ozzie is not good at this. And the only ones that were truly out of their way were SSR and Stokley. Housh could have played another few seasons granted at a lower level. Evans left the league for shame. Never got signed again and was 30 when he joined the team. Only ancient guys here were SSR and Stokely. They were OLDER. Does not mean they were on a farewell tour. Hell, TJ played for another team a season later. That was his farewell tour. And Washington was 30 as well and played on the chargers afterwards. Not on a farewell tour at all. Just never got signed again and had his career season with us.

So again, wrong. SSR is right. Stokley. Right. Boldin, Mason, TJ, Evans Washington were not on the verge of retirement when we acquired them.

Nice try though.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Stallworth was also 30. Considered to be the end of a WRs physical prime. Again. Only ancient men we've had are Stokely and SSR.

[ravensdfan]

Still. It's a greater success rate than drafting one. Ozzie is not good at this. And the only ones that were truly out of their way were SSR and Stokley. Housh could have played another few seasons granted at a lower level. Evans left the league for shame. Never got signed again and was 30 when he joined the team. Only ancient guys here were SSR and Stokely. They were OLDER. Does not mean they were on a farewell tour. Hell, TJ played for another team a season later. That was his farewell tour. And Washington was 30 as well and played on the chargers afterwards. Not on a farewell tour at all. Just never got signed again and had his career season with us.

So again, wrong. SSR is right. Stokley. Right. Boldin, Mason, TJ, Evans Washington were not on the verge of retirement when we acquired them.

Nice try though.

They were over and done when we acquired them, which is the point. Our FA hit is really no better when you begin to go back and add them all up.

 

And when you count someone who never had more than a 200 yd season for us as a hit - but then count someone who put up 600 yds as a miss as a drafted player - you're flat out cheating with your stats.

Edited October 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

So pretty much we go after guys who have just hit 30. Which is not a terrible strategy AT ALL. They're towards the end of their primes but usually have some solid football left in them for another few years. Some it did not work out(TJ, Evans, Stokely due to injury). Other times it was a moderate success to massive success(Mason, Boldin, Washington, Jacoby Jones(who was younger btw), SSR).

So again. I fail to see how this has screwed the team over. We made the playoffs each year with these guys and only one of them truly messed us up. Evans.

[ravensdfan]

So pretty much we go after guys who have just hit 30. Which is not a terrible strategy AT ALL. They're towards the end of their primes but usually have some solid football left in them for another few years. Some it did not work out(TJ, Evans, Stokely due to injury). Other times it was a moderate success to massive success(Mason, Boldin, Washington, Jacoby Jones(who was younger btw), SSR).

So again. I fail to see how this has screwed the team over. We made the playoffs each year with these guys and only one of them truly messed us up. Evans.

You are caught in some microcosm. You fail to see the big picture. Why is WR a NEED every year? Because we pick up guys who are done when they get here. We have the most turnover in our receiving corps, bar none, of any team in the league. That lack of consistency does not allow for any chemistry to build over time. Sure you can get a Mason or a SSS (look how many years apart they are) that hit with your QB right away. Even Boldin took a year before he & Flacco had any chemistry.  These things take time.

That sets your QB up for failure. Timing is not right. Overthrown/Underthrown balls because the speed is different. To some extent you are going to have that with your rookies but if you aren't facing that desperation mode need every year, you've got your core guys and the chemistry and timing is there.

This is not a recipe for success unless you count success as merely making the playoffs every year. Making the playoffs is NOT the point of football season. SBs are the point. And this is not going to get us there in today's offensive friendly NFL.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

They were over and done when we acquired them, which is the point. Our FA hit is really no better when you begin to go back and add them all up.

And when you count someone who never had more than a 200 yd season for us as a hit - but then count someone who put up 600 yds as a miss as a drafted player - you're flat out cheating with your stats.

Stokely again, got hurt. Not Ozzie's fault that it happened. He probably would have had over 400 yards had he played more than 6 games... So not really cheating with my stats, as Housh, Washington, and Jacoby all went over that. Stallworth and Evans were again injured and Evans is a miss, and I cannot really count Stallworth because not only was he hurt but he was so horribly missused it's not even funny.

Taylor I'm giving a bad rep. He had a decent season but was overally a dissapointment and was drafted to be a lot more than he was. Huge bust for the 10th overall pick.

But yeah. I stand by my point. We have had major successes in FA. NONE in the draft.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

You are caught in some microcosm. You fail to see the big picture. Why is WR a NEED every year? Because we pick up guys who are done when they get here. We have the most turnover in our receiving corps, bar none, of any team in the league. That lack of consistency does not allow for any chemistry to build over time. Sure you can get a Mason or a SSS (look how many years apart they are) that hit with your QB right away. Even Boldin took a year before he & Flacco had any chemistry. These things take time.

That sets your QB up for failure. Timing is not right. Overthrown/Underthrown balls because the speed is different. To some extent you are going to have that with your rookies but if you aren't facing that desperation mode need every year, you've got your core guys and the chemistry and timing is there.

This is not a recipe for success unless you count success as merely making the playoffs every year. Making the playoffs is NOT the point of football season. SBs are the point. And this is not going to get us there in today's offensive friendly NFL.

Except for the point that it's not. Not really as big as everyone sees. WR has been a need every year since Boldin went away. It really was not a need before then until we truly needed speed and went to go get Torrey. I'll admit that it's frustrating sure, but we've lived. Even this year WR isn't a super prevelent issue. We're still putting up points.

Every team is going to have a weakness, no such thing as a perfect time. WR is ours. Ozzie is not very good at drafting them. And even then we have come so close even without these WRs. And lost all (except Evans. I am giving you him) as a team. You cannot put sole blame or the majority of the blame on the WRs for all except the Lee Evans one. We honestly did not deserve to win those games because, well the better team won those. And it was not because of the WR corps.

And btw. If you're saying that this year WR is a MAJOR need. You're wrong. It was only a major need the years Boldin and Torrey went away. We're going to give Perriman a chance and we appear to have a viable #3 in Aiken. We will probably go get a Randle, which is fine, and rely on the TE more(which btw... If you have a stable TE core and only average WRs.. which for most of Flacco's career except for 2013 has been true. You're fine... You're offense will be fine. You need a number one OPTION. Not a number one WR. Hell, the number one option the year we won the SB wasn't Boldin, it was Rice) and the offense will have success. Especially if you have a run game.

Sure, post SB you could make the argument Ozzie neglected Flacco but he rebuilt the team from the middle out. Focusing on the oline and dline(Which are FAR more important than the WR position)first. Because you're truly neglecting your QB if you give him no run game or time.

WR has been more of an inconvience rather than a dagger like you're implying. Other than Evans I cannot think of there being another time where the sole reason for our season ending prematurely was because of a WR.

And yes. the method works. We've had success with it. Ozzie will continue to do it. Because it does work more times than not. It'll be our weakness, but honestly. If your weakness is WR and you have a good oline, running game, and TE corps(which btw. We have those). Genrally the offense will be fine(Which it has been).

So I'm not upset at all about WR. Is it a need? Yeah. SSR retiring creates a problem but not one that'll kill us. Is it catastrophic. No. Hell no. OLB, CB, FS. OG to replace KO if we don't resign him), and yes. RB. Forsett is not the answer and Allen is honestly more of a compliment. If we fill in 3 of those(my guess is we fill in CB, OG, OLB and RB via the draft and possibly get a WR via FA), we'll be fine..

But that WR is more than likely than not to be near 30, and have a few good years left in him. Which is fine. You cannot win a SB without your veterans.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

If you can see anything by Ozzie's recent draft strategy for offense it's that we want to involve the TE more. We've drafted 3 TEs that all look promising. Maxx and Crockett look to be a hell of a duo, and I think that this time next year we'll end up using two TE sets a lot. Both of them are good recievers with good hands and are tough to bring down and good blockers. That'll put 7 people on the line at all times. Then you have your QB, WR, and RB. You're 11th guy is going to be either Juice(which sometimes it will be), Boyle on the goaline(LOL. That should be fun in the near future), and maybe another WR.

I think that's the direction we're moving full time in the future and I'm fine with that. Ozzie is pretty good at drafting TEs. So I trust him there.

[Winchester]

Hindsight is 20/20. Kindle was not a bust because of Ozzie. We had no idea. And Elam could still possibly turn it around.

Ozzie takes the BPA. Many dissagree with the method but I see it's stregnths. He makes picks that make the team better as a whole. Mosely and Jernigan may be having sophmore slumps but even then have had plays where they look like they did last year. BPA is something I convey a lot because genrally it does make the team better. CJ and Jernigan are pretty darn good. As is Carl Davis who was also a BPA pick. Maxx? We traded up to get him because of BPA. And Elam was in a horrid draft class tbh. Allen is a good WR yes, but that class is just awful.

I'm happy with Jernigan and Mosley over Jordan Matthews tbh. Jeffery is better than Upshaw and Allen is better than Brown and Elam. I'll admit that. But I'm happy with most of the players I have. We've been putting up points with this crappy corp. And we're missing a few players. I think if Campanaro ever finds a way to stay healthy(and btw. I do think his IRing is a precautionary thing), and Perriman makes improvements suddenly the corps turns around. We already have two good TEs.

We just need a veteran to help out. It's why I want one. We need a leader there.

Upshaw and Elam were BPA's??!! If they were Ozzie's BPA's then oz is further off the reservation than I thought!! I called upshaw a bust after I heard they drafted him after I watched 5 mins of his Clips and CD. Elam I did not think would bust and I did not label an instant bust but in no way did I think he was the best player we could of drafted.Nor did I think he was a round1 caliber. Those scrubs were not even the best defensive players. Who in their right minds would prefer Upshaw over Harrison Smith?? Much less Alshon!! Is Ozzie going senile?? I would much prefer Allen Robinson over Jernigan. Marty Bryant over Brooks Urban or Gilmore. I actually liked kiko Alonso and Alec Ogletree in 2013 in Round1 almost as much as Hopkins. Ozzie's conservative approach costed us Hopkins. How much would it cost to move up several spots to secure Hopkins?? Just as his refusal to give up a mid round pick costed the Ravens Dez and Gronkowski. But Ozzie waits until his back is against the wall and drafts perriman and trades up for fat maxx. If he were more aggressive when there was actually talent and value Gronk and or Dez would be ravens. Carl Davis is not even the best defensive tackle on the board!! Who is happy with the ravens draft picks??!! I am not happy with mediocrity. Even the so called Hits are mediocre. Where does mediocre players get you?? To win the Superbowl the ravens must be better than every other team. Can not settle for mediocre players!! Without a shot to win a championship what fun is watching the ravens. At least get Joe cool a legit WR!! And allow Joe to carry the defense. They will be fun to watch with a dynamic offense. Joe cool should be applauded for what he has done with his joke of WRs. Aiken and Brown would not make another roster if cut. Yet here they are expected to start.

[usmccharles]

Seriously?? I read your posts my friend and I know you are smarter than that!! Completely different athletes. Some guys have to squeeze every ounce of speed and athletic skills they can while. Others wake up fast and athletic without trying. That is like saying Julian edelman or Kevin Walter does not have to train and work hard on his detail and conditioning because Justin Blackmon could smoke weed and drink all week and rack up 180 yards and 3TDs.

I was simply using gates as a point.  He by no means looks like he is in shape, He looks like Charles Barkley Comapared to a Sean Kemp at their position.   I understand what your trying to stay, But the way his body looks has no corelation with the way he plays or how he takes care of his body.  There is things called genes, maybe his family isnt built the way you want but rather a thicker type.  My best friend doesnt work out a day in his life and some how is ripped, even when i was down to 8% body fat i didnt look as good as him.  Looks can be devieving my friend.

 

Don't want either...

Ozzie's philosophy on WR may need to change.

His top priority since the end of 2008 should have been...let me go get Joe his number 1....he has failed to do that. He's kept the Corp respectable at the very least all these years but that's not good enough.

I agree with this to an extent.  I wouldnt say since 2008 because we were an elite defense and we wanted a ground and pound game, and it worked.  Sure it would of helped to have a elite WR but we were doing ok on that side of the ball. 

 

TJ: dropped a perfectly placed pass (and a TD one I believe as well) that would have at the very least kept the drive alive in the playoffs.

Lee Evans: dropped a perfectly placed pass for a TD that would have sent us to a SB.

Boldin: (yep, him too) Also dropped a TD pass.

 

Stokley, Clark, please don't blame the O line for them. They were so old & slow it wasn't even funny. It was downright painful to watch them run.

 

2013 & this season are in part, not in entirety, a direct result of the "formula".

 

 

 

If you are content to be an also ran every year, then the formula might work.

I may be the only one here who just thinks the defensive guy made a great play on the ball, to me it looks like he had it knocked out.  Yea he could of held on to it better, but sometimes the other player makes a better play, its their job. 

 

Eh, IDK. I'd like a Vincent Jackson. Sure he's a bit older but he has like 3-5 years of good ball left.

I actually think we go get someone along the lines of a Rueban Randle. He's a solid player. Makes good catches and runs good routes. Young, would mesh with Flacco. It makes sense

I really like Vjax and i have been pushing that for awhile

 

I dont like Randle, the guy seems to always have injury issues, last thing we need is a guy with all this great potential sitting on the sideline ie Camp

 

 

I agree with the argument OZ isnt good at drafting WRs and it works better for us to go FA with a proven guy.  But for once i wish he would put his cards all in on the FA market WRs and go after a younger but proven guy, i know those guys dont hit the market often and they are costly, but doing it one time and not worrying about it for a couple years would prove effecient.  Heres a list of FAs next year that i think are worth noting

 

Crabtree-  I think he looks good, i wanted him this year

Jeffery-  Most likely resigned, would give a 2nd for no question

Marvin Jones-  We have seen a lot of him.  Could be be better with a better qb and a bigger role

 

And guys ive been pushing for that i have a hunch about

Garcon- would fit great here and still lot of career

Vjax-  Might be costly, older, but is a beast and i think a good 3 years left

R.White-  I just feel like he will get cut and its a guy that would fit our targeted FA pickup, i hope not

 

With SSR retiring, Leaving us with BP, Brown, Waller, Camp*, Ross.  That is a very young, extremely unproven group, that would be terrible.  Joe should be fed up with how the FO has neglected giving him someone of true talent.  We gave him a massive contract, trade away his most reliable weapon, his 2nd favorite weapong gets hurt....Bout time we do something for Joe, glad we tried this year....to an extent. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by usmccharles

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

The hindsight game is fun. No GM can be perfect. And to be fair, Elam was in a crappy draft class, and okay. I've got nothing for Upshaw. He's not bad he's just beyond one dimensional. Even then... You build teams from the middle out. I understand the logic behind taking Jernigan who has flashed a ton here over Robinson. Crockett has turned into a good TE.

You're playing the hindsight game. So keep at it. You're winning. And no... They are not mediocre. Jernigan, Williams, CJ, Davis, ZDS, Jimmy, hell FA acquisition Will Hill have not been mediocre, they've been good. One of them is going to be a star LB. They're not stars, but you cannot have a team full of stars. You need a few, I agree. But full of them is a virtual impossibility. Everyone is having a down year. CJ and Jernigan are going through growing pains(happens), Jimmy is in the process of recovering from injury(happens). But at times they do flash their old selves which btw, is good. It means they haven't totally declined yet. Which some rookies do. We need another corner, and quite possibly a safety.

Every GM makes mistakes. Upshaw and Elam and Brown are the big mistakes recently. You're not giving Maxx a fair rep. He's a ROOKIE TE. They rarely ever produce.

And for all anyone knew at the time, Alshon and others could have been busts. No one knew. And if you say you did, I'm calling BS. The draft is an unpredictable thing, and I've seen "safe picks" turn into busts in the past(Blaine Gabbert anyone?). The only sure pick we've had in the past ten or so years is ANDREW LUCK. So yeah. Saying "I knew X player is going to be a star" is utter crap until you see them play an NFL down. Once you see them for awhile(take Maxx. His first 6 games he hasn't put up big numbers but he's looked good. He looks tough and has good hands and quickness and can block), you can get a genral idea of what they can/will become. But even then it takes YEARS.

So yeah. Ozzie is still not going anywhere.

Holy crap. If the fans ran this team we'd be so screwed... Goes for me too.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I

 

Crabtree-  I think he looks good, i wanted him this year

Jeffery-  Most likely resigned, would give a 2nd for no question

Marvin Jones-  We have seen a lot of him.  Could be be better with a better qb and a bigger role

 

And guys ive been pushing for that i have a hunch about

Garcon- would fit great here and still lot of career

Vjax-  Might be costly, older, but is a beast and i think a good 3 years left

R.White-  I just feel like he will get cut and its a guy that would fit our targeted FA pickup, i hope not

 

With SSR retiring, Leaving us with BP, Brown, Waller, Camp*, Ross.  That is a very young, extremely unproven group, that would be terrible.  Joe should be fed up with how the FO has neglected giving him someone of true talent.  We gave him a massive contract, trade away his most reliable weapon, his 2nd favorite weapong gets hurt....Bout time we do something for Joe, glad we tried this year....to an extent.

To the last point we're slowly but surely trying. Getting him Perriman, Maxx, Crockett over the past two drafts is a start and I think Buck is a more than capable 3rd down back and has a very reliable set of hands(I watched a ton of USC games. Not a massive fan as a runner but I think he could be our recieving threat that Trestman loves so much). So that's a start. We need a veteran. We even appeared to find a viable #3 option that Flacco is slowly growing comftolorable with in Aiken. Who btw, is a viable #3. A good one if you ask me. He's reliable for #3 standards, and will work his hardest out there. He's not a massive threat, but in 3 WR sets he's a good choice.

I think we need another guy yes. But I want it to come via FA. I would take Garcon or White in a heartbeat. White is no longer a number one but I could see him filling a #2 role here.