Ozzie Newsome (Merged)

[January J]

Where did you want us to get one and who? It's easy to say now, but who would we have drafted? Darby, Randall, Jones are the guys you wanted, I assume, over Perriman? Don't get me wrong because I wanted a DB as well, but we also really needed a WR and I can understand the team liking Perriman over the others. People said Byron Jones was a workout warrior and quite a few people wanted to avoid him as a result. I wasn't one. A lot of people agreed that Darby wasn't a day one pick.

There's just a lot of hindsight without context.

no I agree, without the ability of hindsight I probably wouldn't have done much different than they did, I was happy with a wr round one. I just would have taken a second receiver a little sooner than round 6 , gotten diggs since he fell quite a bit and picked up a cb sooner. Round 3 I suppose , bc I'm certainly not complaining about getting Maxx in the second either. lol I don't know, I'm just all distraught right now because we keep losing. Edited October 19, 2015 by January J

[GrimCoconut]

My argument is they waited too long to invest in weapons for their QB so yes, this year's draft when your franchise guy is in year 8 DOES support my argument.

You're right on the 3 years but we still gave the #1 pick to the defense for 5 years in a row.

Lol I see you changed it from 3- to 5-years. Don't get me wrong, I wished we drafted more offensive players, too, but I can't quite fault the picks. The draft is a lottery and you don't always win. Ozzie wants more tickets to increase his chances, but sometimes we should trade a few chances to get one really good looking chance.

I won't get into how I wanted x player and Ozzie took y and x is a better pro to show I'm superior to Ozzie. Many people are doing that and it's fair to question him. I don't think Ozzie is purposely weakening the offense for the defense, however.

[GrimCoconut]

no I agree, without the ability of hindsight I probably wouldn't have done much different than they did, I was happy with a wr round one. I just would have taken a second receiver a little sooner than round 6 , gotten diggs since he fell quite a bit and picked up a cb sooner. Round 3 I suppose , bc I'm certainly not complaining about getting Maxx in the second either. lol I don't know, I'm just all distraught right now because we keep losing.

What about Carl Davis? He's been great for us. None of the other rookie CB after Davis have really done much. I don't see how we missed on someone. That's all I'm saying. It's not some easy decision that you'd give up x player for y, because we're really using y a lot lately and he's been our most impressive rookie yet.

[TheTruthHurts]

Although still one of the best GMs in the game. the legend of Ozzie's Newsome draft magic is a bit outdated. Here are the Ravens top three rounds since 2009:

 

2009 - Michael Oher, Paul Kruger, Ledarious Webb - a bust, and two above average players

2010 - Sergio Kindle, Terrance Cody, Ed Dickson - disaster of a draft (although Pitta and Arthur Jones came later)

2011 - Jimmy Smith, Torey Smith, Jah Reid - two very good picks at the top, but now what I would call stars (and one is gone)

2012 - Courtney Upshaw, Kelechi Osemele, Bernard Pierce - Upshaw is big disappointment, Osemele is very good, Pierce is gone

2013 - Matt Elam, Arthur Brown, Brandon Williams - Williams is a starter and promising DT, the other two busts

2014 - CJ Mosley, Tim Jernigan, Terrence Brooks - Mosley is a starter (but is just a two down player, cannot cover), Jernigan is up and down, Brooks looks very suspect and is now injured

2015 - Brenard Perriman, Maxx Williams, Carl Davis - too early to tell, but Perriman hasn't even seen the field yet.

 

Now Ozzie still gets some good players in later rounds, but there aren't any stars or Pro Bowlers on the list above - people overrate Jimmy Smith and Mosley has regressed this year and is a coverage liability. Osemele may be the closest thing to a Pro Bowler on the above list.

 

Like I said. I think Ozzie is still one of the top 5-10 GMs in the NFL - but his "draft magic" of late has been middle of the road.

[Wastntime]

I think a lot of it has to do with the current director of college scouting Joe Hortiz. When Phil Savage was in that position 96-2002 our pics were amazing.

[ravensdan]

I'm very familiar with Ozzie's impressive resume. All good things must come to an end and his time is past. That doesn't diminish what he's accomplished in an illustrious career. Like everyone else in the organization, he must be held accountable and not rest on his laurels. We are now 19-18 in the regular season since the 2012 Super Bowl. I submit there is shared responsibility for our mediocrity and he is partly to blame. If you can't handle the truth, its not my problem. Living in the past doesn't help us solve the problem. The only constant in life is that everything will change. Embrace it!

In the final analysis, fans need to decide whether our #1 problem is the coaching or the personnel we have. I'm suggesting its the latter.

Unfortunately real problems can not be narrowed down to just one thing as you suggest. There are multiple issues adding up to these embarrassing losses. Luckily we have a premiere organization to right the ship. GM/HC/QB.

[ravensdan]

They should definitely start polling the fanbase over all personnel decisions...

I'd buy more season tickets just to see the hilarity that ensues when the fans make the personnel decisions. Sometimes, watching a train-wreck is more fun than actually watching a quality product.

No real GM in the league could make as poor decisions as I've seen suggested if they got together and purposely tried to tank a team.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

You know. Seeing this thread ironically makes me appreciates Ozzie more

[ravensdan]

No comment upon that, but I also believe this is Oz's last year. It's like being the mayor of a city for over 20 years. There just comes a saturation point and its Time for a Change.

Oz commented after the Championship he was staying on to leave the team in good shape. This will be three years past time.

Give the man his golden watch Steve B and send him on a pleasant cruise.

So if the best coach in the NFL isn't able to dig to the bottom of his bag of tricks to a now illegal formation trick. Ravens go to *another SB. Even if this year is exactly the same. OZ still lost it?

[ravensdan]

You make some good points. In a nutshell however this is not the 80's. Getting heat on the qb is #1. Wide body run pluggers come a dime a dozen these days. I'm not impressed. To be honest I like our oline far better than Dline. I do think those guys can pull it together and play dominant across the board. It remains to be seen but it is talented enough to do so. Wagner should improve. He is coming off injury. I would like a more dominant center. He may be already on the team in urschel. The Dline I like Williams Davis Jernigan but I would have preferred Michael Bennett or Jarrett over Davis. Or even Davis with Bennett or Jarrett. I just believe in the current NFL the way the ball is thrown around the talent to get to Brady Rogers Ryan Romo or whomever the hot playoff\superbowl qb happens to be is key to a championship. In the playoffs or Superbowl stopping the other teams obscure RB is like winning the peoples choice award. It just does not have that adolescent flare. The run is no longer needed to set up the QBs throws. With that said I think the ravens need 2 edge rush LBs. One must be dominant to set up the other rushers. Dumervil is over 30 and lost some burst already. If anything the air attack makes it easier for Running games in the modern NFL!! The defense needs a dominant edge rusher and a tough leader. I do believe Joe Cool is a franchise QB. With that said give the dude some weapons for crying out loud. Give him a shot to compensate for the defense. Brown\Aiken are garbage. I do not like perriman as a #1. No way he plays to his 40 time and I do not see any route savvy or speed in his routes. I like him as a round3 developmental WR. Not a rookie Ozzie was depending on to be a key part of the offense. I said before that Steffon Diggs will be a better WR than perriman. As will Lockett. The ravens should have drafted a WR in 2014 and or should have doubled on WRs this draft. No Waller does not count!! The guy is so stiff he looks as if he is running on stilts!! Ozzie missed on Lockett and Diggs whom played in the back yard. Both are phenomenal talents. I said it all along, Diggs at the right school and free of injury could have been a round 1 pick. Perriman may be good in a couple years. I do not like him as a #1 at all. I would love to trade for a talented WR yet to breakout like Marqise Lee. He is a phenomenal talent!! The dude had 10 tds as a true freshman in the pac12. If agholor was available he would have been the ravens pick. And although close, he is not quite as dynamic as Marqise Lee. The ravens have some OK TEs but neither are dynamic enough to replace a WR as #1. They are more compliments to a good WR that needs a dynamic WR to take coverage off them. The TEs can be very effective but neither are dynamic. Effective does not win championships. Remember to win the Superbowl you have to be better than everybody. I see far to many fans over excited over far to many players that are average!! The other teams players are getting paid to!! And when you compare many so called gems to players around the NFL at the same position you can see they are solid which is mediocre, not spectacular. Our oline is the one unit that has the skills to be dominant!! If they are intact and playing up to par. Another reason Joe needs a legit starting WR. With Joe and the oline it will the one need that will show up the most and make the biggest difference. I'm not saying Julio jones but a legit receiver with decent speed will make the most noise and open things up for the young TEs. The idea is to find an ascending player that will be better with the ravens and having a franchise qb. I like Marqise. He has a complete skill set. Hurns getting acclimated faster is no disgrace to him. Hurns is a beast as well. What is a disgrace is ozzie and other teams overlooking a phenomenol talent lime that!! He is well coached up and broke every miami receiving record. But tbe coaches and media in jacksonville acknowledge Marqise is more skilled and explosive player when he actually practices. When he had a viable QB and no injuries he was as dynamic as Watkins. He had 10 TDs as a true freshman in a competitive conference and as a matter of fact many college and draft analysts labeled him the best player in college as a true sophomore. His nagging injuries are agrivating but they are not major. And you will not find skills like that for a round4 pick. Paul Richardson could be obtained likely for a round 5pick because of how deep Seattle is at WR and Kick returner at the moment. He has a legit torn ligament but if he returns to form he is very dynamic!! Think Torrey Smith only faster and will attack the football. And a better route runner.

As for jimmy I think he is eratic and far to inconsistent to be considered elite. Not worth a big contract!! Malcolm Butler is outplaying him!! Pathetic!! I rooted for him to be elite as well. I would like to sign Bruce Irvin this offseason. He is a 4-3 LB that would be a double digit sack guy if he lined up as a 3-4 olb edge rushers. He is being underutilized. It is great he can cover and play traditional LB Duties at 6'3 255lbs, but he is an explosive edge rusher and would be more valuable as a 3-4 olb!! Which makes him a HUGE BARGAIN!! Because if he already played 3-4 rush olb he could easily rack up 12-15 sacks and loads of pressure on qbs!! Thus command over $10mil a year on the open market!! But being that he plays traditional 4-3 LB and has yet to rush the qb often enough to hit 12-16 sacks he is undervalued and his best football will be as a raven. He is as explosive an edge rusher as there is in the NFL. And he has learned an arsenal of moves. The ravens should be able to get him for about 4 years $30million. He is worth far more than Mcphee!! He is a player a smart gm will overpay slightly when considering his current production because of his immense potential. A Smart aggressive gm knows when to pay an ascending player. He is as dynamic as vic Beasley a top10 draft pick. With Mosley and Irvin the ravens Defense is halfway there with 2 explosive building blocks that can run like safety's and play with a mean streak. I like Mosley\Irvin idea. Ravens could draft the best edge rusher to partner with Irvin and Mosley and with their stout DLine once again have a dynamic defense. Just an idea.

I have to agree with some of what you say here. The biggest issue with this team is the lack of pass rush. One move I highly question was not resigning McPhee before he hit the open market. We needed to resign our young up and coming guy. I would rather have spent what was needed to bring him back than any free agent brought in.

That said a value like JabaalSheard would have been a nice consolation right now.

The WR need is highly overstated. We will add a couple of players that fit Flaccos skill set next offseason. That has not cost us any of these games. As for Perriman I will say he was not one of my favorites pre draft. However he was a favorite of Greg Cossell, who was also a fan of Moncreif. Now that is a media opinion I will defer to. However, even Cossels evaluation expected his impact to be minimal year one so I had no expectation of him contributing. And that need has been greatly overstated as well.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Tbh, we have a share of holes. But some of them are easy to fill

We need a new RB(easy)

We need another playmaking WR on offense(easy via FA. Hard via draft. Who cares if the guy is old. If he can play he can play)

We need another MLB(Very easy)

We need another pass rusher(hard unless Bosa is there. Then awesome)

We need another corner(easy. Ozzie is historically good at drafting corners)

[Cillmatic]

Tbh, we have a share of holes. But some of them are easy to fill

We need a new RB(easy)

We need another playmaking WR on offense(easy via FA. Hard via draft. Who cares if the guy is old. If he can play he can play)

We need another MLB(Very easy)

We need another pass rusher(hard unless Bosa is there. Then awesome)

We need another corner(easy. Ozzie is historically good at drafting corners)

If it was that easy we wouldn't be 1-5 about to be 1-7...

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

If it was that easy we wouldn't be 1-5 about to be 1-7...

Nah. We're not as bad as the record indicates. Here we out. If all of our losses have been by what, 5 points or less it means we've been in every game. You can mask an issue or two, meaning we'll probably neglect WR again draft wise. But I think with a Bosa caliber player(yes, you think he's overrated. He is. But he's still better than all of the pass rushers this year) and if you add even a Trumaine Johnson, then you vastly improve the defense by that alone.

We don't look as awful as everyone makes it seem. we've been in every game. Two against undefeated teams. We're not good, but we're not awful.

[Static]

Last two draft classes ain't looking too hot Imo

[-Truth-]

Strange examples and explanations used in hindsight. I thought Grady Jarrett was underrated coming into the draft, but both he and Michael Bennett were viewed as undersized 4-3 one-gap perpetrators, so neither was seen as an ideal fit in our system. Bruce Irvin doesn't play on a defense with an odd front, but he does play the SAM in Seattle's 4-3 Under, which provides him with a plethora of opportunities to rush the passer from a two-point stance. He's also seen countless snaps at RE in his career and even played several games predominantly at DE, including in their SuperBowl victory. He was 16th in pass rush attempts among all LBs last season, regardless of the scheme, and he's currently within the Top 20 in 2015. I personally like Irvin in general, but he hasn't been overly productive as a pass rusher on a per snap basis, and it hasn't been due to a lack of opportunities. He's also arguably benefited from lack of attention while playing with elite rushers in Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril, so while it's possible, it's difficult projecting his number taking a serious uptick in a different situation.

Edited October 22, 2015 by -Truth-

[ravensdfan]

Tbh, we have a share of holes. But some of them are easy to fill

We need a new RB(easy)

We need another playmaking WR on offense(easy via FA. Hard via draft. Who cares if the guy is old. If he can play he can play)

We need another MLB(Very easy)

We need another pass rusher(hard unless Bosa is there. Then awesome)

We need another corner(easy. Ozzie is historically good at drafting corners)

We care if he is old because we need consistency in that area, not patches that are gone in a year. Of course, sadly, we have no idea what we have in Perriman right now.

 

Right now Ozzie's batting average at finding corners isn't stellar tbh so I wouldn't call that one easy at all.

[Winchester]

Yea because Antonio Gates is ripped....hes had a lackluster career huh.

Seriously?? I read your posts my friend and I know you are smarter than that!! Completely different athletes. Some guys have to squeeze every ounce of speed and athletic skills they can while. Others wake up fast and athletic without trying. That is like saying Julian edelman or Kevin Walter does not have to train and work hard on his detail and conditioning because Justin Blackmon could smoke weed and drink all week and rack up 180 yards and 3TDs. Edited October 20, 2015 by Winchester

[nyc9192]

Nah. We're not as bad as the record indicates. Here we out. If all of our losses have been by what, 5 points or less it means we've been in every game. You can mask an issue or two, meaning we'll probably neglect WR again draft wise. But I think with a Bosa caliber player(yes, you think he's overrated. He is. But he's still better than all of the pass rushers this year) and if you add even a Trumaine Johnson, then you vastly improve the defense by that alone.

We don't look as awful as everyone makes it seem. we've been in every game. Two against undefeated teams. We're not good, but we're not awful.

You make good points,but with all of the resources invested in the front 7,i dont care how good the pass rushers are.Ozzie can't possibly neglect cb or wr again this year considering we can possibly have a top 10 pick.I think he should double dip for each position in 2016

[PurpleCity5]

For those who don't like Ozzie who do you suggest we replace him with? I certainly blame the F.O as well for what has happened this season. Our frustrations at WR is annoying and getting old and believe me, Perriman's injury has just made me angry at the fact we can't catch a break with these WRs. Not labeling Perriman a bust or injury prone, but I was just hoping our problems with WRs would be solved and yet the one time we draft a WR in the 1st round, he goes down to a ridiculous injury. 

 

Anyways, I just want to see us once, just once put the conservative FA approach on hold and actually get some guys. This F.O was putting in some nice work after our 8-8 season, to be honest I'm confident they'll make some nice adjustments needed to fix this whole thing. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

We care if he is old because we need consistency in that area, not patches that are gone in a year. Of course, sadly, we have no idea what we have in Perriman right now.

Right now Ozzie's batting average at finding corners isn't stellar tbh so I wouldn't call that one easy at all.

Jimmy and Webb were not bad picks. Both were good actually. No one could forsee Webb's injury history and Jimmy has two damn good years under his belt and is inconsistent right now. As the whole team is. Hell, Asa Jackson even had his moments. And Tray Walker is not bad either.

Um.. No we don't care. You may care. But if he can play, he can play. You may be tired of it. But the formula works

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

You make good points,but with all of the resources invested in the front 7,i dont care how good the pass rushers are.Ozzie can't possibly neglect cb or wr again this year considering we can possibly have a top 10 pick.I think he should double dip for each position in 2016

A good pass rush will help out the seconary immensly. Honestly, Arrington is fine in the slot and I like what I saw from Will Davis in limited playing time. CB is honestly a position I would go after in FA rather than the draft. Draft wise I'd draft 3 pass rushers. Two Linebackers and another dlinemen.

WR. Again. You can solve that with a veteran. For cheap. Or not cheap. Take Vincent Jackson for example. I'd take him. He'd be pricey. Reuben Randle would not be.

Hell, you could go get someone like Nick Perry in FA for relatively cheap.

Zach Brown would not be too expensive neither.

[ravensdfan]

Jimmy and Webb were not bad picks. Both were good actually. No one could forsee Webb's injury history and Jimmy has two damn good years under his belt and is inconsistent right now. As the whole team is. Hell, Asa Jackson even had his moments. And Tray Walker is not bad either.

Um.. No we don't care. You may care. But if he can play, he can play. You may be tired of it. But the formula works

LOL No the formula does not work. It has not worked since Mason outside of Boldin & SSS now. Not even sure Mason can be counted as part of that formula. In fact, that "formula" is in part why we are 1-5. Guarantee if we had not been using that formula and had drafted a Perriman (high rd WR) other than once in the last what now? 7 years? 6 years? something like that, we would have managed a win in at least 2 of our 3 losses.

 

Edit: In fact, not sure you can count Boldin since he wasn't really old by the formula's standards. He was still under 35.

Edited October 20, 2015 by ravensdfan

[I AM LEGEND]

Unfortunately for Ozzie when ur team is on pace to get a top 5-10 draft pick...there's very little he can do come next spring that will satisfy the fan base.

25% of us want a pass rusher

25% of us want secondary help

25% of us want another WR

The other 25% don't care what we get...we just don't want a repeat of this year.

[52liveforever]

If I read one more negative post about Maxx Williams I am going to scream. The kid is 20 yrs old he is not fat he just hasn't completely become a man yet. He reminds me of Jeremy Shockey in his early years at the U. Give him a few years to grow.

Also he's on pace to out perform any rookie tight end we have ever had. Tight ends typically don't come out getting a bunch of yards. Gronk had like 500 his first year so I don't know what you expect. Gronk is a freak so I wouldn't expect those results, but I feel like that's what's being expected of this 20 yr old kid which is ridiculous.

Maxx is going to be a GREAT tight end. To see him play this way at 20 is extremely exciting for me. Can't wait to see this grow and become one of the great tight ends in this league. Just don't make Gronk the barometer that's just not fair and unrealistic.

[Guest]

So if the best coach in the NFL isn't able to dig to the bottom of his bag of tricks to a now illegal formation trick. Ravens go to *another SB. Even if this year is exactly the same. OZ still lost it?

 

I honestly think so.  We are going to have to rebuild entirely and his recent history and age tend to indicate his position needs to be part of that process.

 

If we finish 3-13, we'll be finishing stronger than we've started.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

LOL No the formula does not work. It has not worked since Mason outside of Boldin & SSS now. Not even sure Mason can be counted as part of that formula. In fact, that "formula" is in part why we are 1-5. Guarantee if we had not been using that formula and had drafted a Perriman (high rd WR) other than once in the last what now? 7 years? 6 years? something like that, we would have managed a win in at least 2 of our 3 losses.

*facepalm*. The formula is a reason why we haven't drafted a WR. We had winning seasons. All three of them turned into viable security blankets. The formula works. Just for the short term. Which is fine. If we have to go get a reliable vet, who's been proven capable fine by me. You do not necesarily need a superstar WR. You need a relaible option.

And who else besides Mason and Boldin? Are you really going to bring up Stokley? That season was to blame on an oline. Not a WR corps.

[I AM LEGEND]

WR. Again. You can solve that with a veteran. For cheap. Or not cheap. Take Vincent Jackson for example. I'd take him. He'd be pricey. Reuben Randle would not be.

Don't want either...

Ozzie's philosophy on WR may need to change.

His top priority since the end of 2008 should have been...let me go get Joe his number 1....he has failed to do that. He's kept the Corp respectable at the very least all these years but that's not good enough.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Okay. Then if you count Stokley then we're 3/4... That's a .750 batting average. Sorry. It works. You may hate it. But bringing in a vet is fine. I'd rather do that since Ozzie's track record drafting the damn WRs is poor. Sorry ravensdfan. I highly doubt we take a high WR.

[ravensdfan]

*facepalm*. The formula is a reason why we haven't drafted a WR. We had winning seasons. All three of them turned into viable security blankets. The formula works. Just for the short term. Which is fine. If we have to go get a reliable vet, who's been proven capable fine by me. You do not necesarily need a superstar WR. You need a relaible option.

And who else besides Mason and Boldin? Are you really going to bring up Stokley? That season was to blame on an oline. Not a WR corps.

TJ: dropped a perfectly placed pass (and a TD one I believe as well) that would have at the very least kept the drive alive in the playoffs.

Lee Evans: dropped a perfectly placed pass for a TD that would have sent us to a SB.

Boldin: (yep, him too) Also dropped a TD pass.

 

Stokley, Clark, please don't blame the O line for them. They were so old & slow it wasn't even funny. It was downright painful to watch them run.

 

2013 & this season are in part, not in entirety, a direct result of the "formula".

 

 

 

If you are content to be an also ran every year, then the formula might work.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

You may not want it. But it works. There's tangible results. You may hate the method, but it works. This is our only bad season and it's a combo of injuries and bad coaching for the reason. Aiken for a #3(another FA) has played quite well for filling in anyway. So much so that I want to keep the guy as a #3. I think Perriman at worse is a #2. I watched tons of tape of the guy.

Ozzie knows he has a weakness at drafting WRs. Why he's been hesitant. WR is a flashy position but in reality there's a lot more to that. I'd honestly rather have him nail doubles on good players at positions we do not need than have him needlessly try for a WR.

You heard me. I'm okay with the veteran thing