2016 free agency

[Winchester]

forsett webb and smith are going to leave even bigger holes to fill though.

When the ravens oline is intact it is easy to find a RB to be effective. Daryl Smith is getting old and slow. I mentioned last offseason replacing him with a fast physical 3 down LB. Bowman and Willis made the safety's look good and their job easy. Mosley with another fast physical 3 down LB would control the middle. Then adding Chancellor next to Hill and that is a defense that would command a name!!

[Tru11]

When the ravens oline is intact it is easy to find a RB to be effective. Daryl Smith is getting old and slow. I mentioned last offseason replacing him with a fast physical 3 down LB. Bowman and Willis made the safety's look good and their job easy. Mosley with another fast physical 3 down LB would control the middle. Then adding Chancellor next to Hill and that is a defense that would command a name!!

 

kam and hill play the same position not to mention have the same skill set.

 

would solve 0.

 

we need a earl thomas type at FS.

 

id trade hill for Kam though.

 

also my point was that even though what you say is true about forsett and smith , we still dont have the replacement on the roster which mean we most draft or sign one which adds to the many holes we need to fix.

 

if you do that you better hope brown and allen are the answers.

[Winchester]

Chancellor is under contract, and the Seahawks have practically all of the leverage. Strongly doubt they are interested in moving on from him.

Chancellor is under contract, and the Seahawks have practically all of the leverage. Strongly doubt they are interested in moving on from him.

If his agent knew the ravens were interested he would put the pressure on for a trade. And with all the money the seahawks are paying they are interested in collecting draft picks. A pair of #2 picks could tempt them. And there is nobody in the NFL or draft like Chancellor!! So that is not steep at all. He hits like a LB and covers as well as any safety.

[Winchester]

kam and hill play the same position not to mention have the same skill set.

would solve 0.

we need a earl thomas type at FS.

id trade hill for Kam though.

also my point was that even though what you say is true about forsett and smith , we still dont have the replacement on the roster which mean we most draft or sign one which adds to the many holes we need to fix.

if you do that you better hope brown and allen are the answers.

Hill can play fs in a blink. And Daryl Smith is already a hole. Edited October 22, 2015 by Winchester

[rmcjacket23]

If his agent knew the ravens were interested he would put the pressure on for a trade. And with all the money the seahawks are paying they are interested in collecting draft picks. A pair of #2 picks could tempt them. And there is nobody in the NFL or draft like Chancellor!! So that is not steep at all. He hits like a LB and covers as well as any safety.

Doesn't really matter what his agent wants... his agent knows that literally every team in the league has interest in trading for Chancellor.

 

They're keeping him. He's making chump change for his value, and the Seahawks know that, hence they have all the leverage. The only thing Cam can do is hold out again, which accomplished nothing.

 

There is nobody like Chancellor... and the Seahawks know that. Hence, why he is a Seahawk.

[Tru11]

Hill can play fs in a blink. And Daryl Smith is already a hole.

 

dont think he has the range to do that.

[Ravens2343]

dont think he has the range to do that.

 

I agree I do not think Hill would be a good FS for us.  He is entrenched as our strong safety "thumper" similar to what Chancellor is for the Hawks.  No way we trade for Chancellor, we tend to keep our picks and bring in young, cheaper talent. 

[gtalk12]

I don't see how Webb leaving would benefit us, he was not an issue until we lacked consistent pressure on the QB, stats are misleading.

[-Truth-]

dont think he has the range to do that.

He's had some issues there in a couple games this season, but to Hill's defense, he was our FS in each of his active games last season. He also started every game at FS in New York the year before, which included quite a bit of single-high, and he was much more effective than you'd expect.

[Tru11]

He's had some issues there in a couple games this season, but to Hill's defense, he was our FS in each of his active games last season. He also started every game at FS in New York the year before, which included quite a bit of single-high, and he was much more effective than you'd expect.

 

actually stewart played FS most for us.

 

Hill played the SS role taking it over for elam who slided to nickle corner.

 

We actually ran a lot of  3 safety sets.

 

its true that he played FS in NY but he was the most effective coming up from that spot and blowing plays up.

 

he was a FS in college as well but i just dont think he has the speed to cover side line to side line.

if you are going to use him there you will pretty much limit him to staying deep every snap lol.

you cant really disguise what he is going to do or you will be burned a lot.

 

he only had 2 int in 12 games not counting his rookie season.

only 2 pass break ups as well.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't see how Webb leaving would benefit us, he was not an issue until we lacked consistent pressure on the QB, stats are misleading.

I think Webb gets too much hate here. He only had one down season, 2014 and looked much better as the season got along. This year he was looking like the Webb who rebounded from his ACL tear. I think Webb is fine and I personally would keep him. I would still draft a CB. IMO the biggest problem with this secondary is at Free Safety, we need one badly and its one to be addressed. 

[Deflated Football]

Why not move Webb to FS if we draft Vernon or Jalen?

[gtalk12]

I think Webb gets too much hate here. He only had one down season, 2014 and looked much better as the season got along. This year he was looking like the Webb who rebounded from his ACL tear. I think Webb is fine and I personally would keep him. I would still draft a CB. IMO the biggest problem with this secondary is at Free Safety, we need one badly and its one to be addressed. 

 

We don't have someone with Webb's experience or ability. He is still a solid CB.

[PurpleCity5]

We don't have someone with Webb's experience or ability. He is still a solid CB.

That's very true, I feel that if we get a guy like Vernon Hargreaves we can let Webb walk after his deal is up.

[-Truth-]

actually stewart played FS most for us.

Hill played the SS role taking it over for elam who slided to nickle corner.

We actually ran a lot of 3 safety sets.

its true that he played FS in NY but he was the most effective coming up from that spot and blowing plays up.

he was a FS in college as well but i just dont think he has the speed to cover side line to side line.

if you are going to use him there you will pretty much limit him to staying deep every snap lol.

you cant really disguise what he is going to do or you will be burned a lot.

he only had 2 int in 12 games not counting his rookie season.

only 2 pass break ups as well.

Stewart was our SS in all but two games last season. I recall noting this when re-watching the contests. In addition, PFF lists Hill at FS in 12 of 12 games and Stewart at SS in 16 of 18. They send in their data on snap totals and positions to be checked by the league, from what I recall, and their information in those aspects is deemed to be roughly 99.5% accurate. There were even articles by the BaltimoreSun and other outlets about Hill's position change in this offseason to SS. You are correct about the usage of three safeties in general, however.

That being said, I would disagree with your assessment about his areas of strength while in New York. I followed Hill closely in 2013 and he was outstanding in coverage that season. The INT and PD numbers are by no means indicative of his performance. He wasn't asked or expected to be a ball-hawking center-fielder but rather was responsible for preventing big plays and forcing throws towards the sidelines. And that he did, allowing just 186 yards through the air, only 9.8 yards per completion, with a mere 1 TD and a QB rating of 62.0. As far as the physical attributes go, his agility and acceleration aren't the most ideal for the role, but he's been more than competent in coverage at FS in his career.

Edited October 22, 2015 by -Truth-

[rmcjacket23]

We don't have someone with Webb's experience or ability. He is still a solid CB.

All comes down to value.

 

I agree that when he's on the field, he's pretty much an average to slightly above average corner. The problem has become that he's completely unreliable week-to-week as to whether or not he will even be on the field, and thus makes his large cap number cumbersome for a team who may want to use the cap space on somebody more reliable, whether its at corner or another position. 

 

While I think he will be back, if the FO attacks corner early in the draft or even in FA, the $3.5M in cap savings from releasing him might be tasty.

[Tru11]

Stewart was our SS in all but two games last season. I recall noting this when re-watching the contests. In addition, PFF lists Hill at FS in 12 of 12 games and Stewart at SS in 16 of 18. They send in their data on snap totals and positions to be checked by the league, from what I recall, and their information in those aspects is deemed to be roughly 99.5% accurate. There were even articles by the BaltimoreSun and other outlets about Hill's position change in this offseason to SS. You are correct about the usage of three safeties in general, however.

That being said, I would disagree with your assessment about his areas of strength while in New York. I followed Hill closely in 2013 and he was outstanding in coverage that season. The INT and PD numbers are by no means indicative of his performance. He wasn't asked or expected to be a ball-hawking center-fielder but rather was responsible for preventing big plays and forcing throws towards the sidelines. And that he did, allowing just 186 yards through the air, only 9.8 yards per completion, with a mere 1 TD and a QB rating of 62.0. As far as the physical attributes go, his agility and acceleration aren't the most ideal for the role, but he's been more than competent in coverage at FS in his career.

 

as far as i can see stewart was listed as the FS .

i also remember articles questioning if stewart could make the transition from SS to FS when we brought him here.

both profootball reference and NFL.com have him listed as a FS.

could be both played FS with the 3rd safety being the SS lol

 

yeah i dont question him being competent to play FS but i dont find it ideal and i think he can be a much bigger force at SS.

he could actually be better of use when disguising what he is going to do.

at FS you pretty much know he going to be single high covering the deep middle of the field and with our corners its scary since he might not have the speed to cover over the top.

 

we are getting burned quite alot towards the side lines lately.

 

ive always been a fan of having speed at FS though so im probably pretty biased.

[January J]

I would tell webb to take another pay cut or he can walk. I like him but he's just hurt too much. We can get almost as much production from somebody else for much much cheaper. I think we should definitely draft a safety or pass rusher in the first though regardless.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Why not move Webb to FS if we draft Vernon or Jalen?

 

Why not stop putting hope on the 3-game a season Webb?   He has been injured and barely played since 2012.   Im ready to move on from him.   

 

His injuries (and performance) has been worse than Bob Sanders of Colts.

[lgcs27288]

Why not stop putting hope on the 3-game a season Webb? He has been injured and barely played since 2012. Im ready to move on from him.

His injuries (and performance) has been worse than Bob Sanders of Colts.

Good example. Sanders was good when he was on the field though.

I remember hyping Webb up when he drafted him, but at some point you've just to learn to let go. He is simply too expensive for the amount of games he is still missing and for the production he has given when on it.

[Deflated Football]

Why not stop putting hope on the 3-game a season Webb?   He has been injured and barely played since 2012.   Im ready to move on from him.   

 

His injuries (and performance) has been worse than Bob Sanders of Colts.

Good point. I'm just not interested in having Lewis here anymore. We need a true playmaker at FS to pair up with Will Hill. If we draft Ramsey, hopefully he could solve the crisis and maybe we could be in the market for a Sean Smith or a Prince Amukamara and cut ties with Webb unless he excels in the slot. 

[-Truth-]

as far as i can see stewart was listed as the FS .

i also remember articles questioning if stewart could make the transition from SS to FS when we brought him here.

both profootball reference and NFL.com have him listed as a FS.

could be both played FS with the 3rd safety being the SS lol

 

yeah i dont question him being competent to play FS but i dont find it ideal and i think he can be a much bigger force at SS.

he could actually be better of use when disguising what he is going to do.

at FS you pretty much know he going to be single high covering the deep middle of the field and with our corners its scary since he might not have the speed to cover over the top.

 

we are getting burned quite alot towards the side lines lately.

 

ive always been a fan of having speed at FS though so im probably pretty biased.

 

True, but neither of those two websites does in-depth studies on where the players line up specifically so I'll personally side with PFF. I've seen similar errors in the past such as with George Iloka, who was incorrectly listed as the SS last season. Also, Stewart is listed as an FS on NFL.com since that's his current position in Denver. Don't get me wrong, neither Will nor Stewart were exclusive to being solely one of the two. I've just went through our Tennessee game from last season as a refresher and there were numerous times when they were both 8+ yards off the LOS. There were also times when Hill was lined up in the box or moved down right before the snap, especially in situations when he was in man coverage against the slot WR/TE. However, he spent the majority of his snaps as an FS in either two-deep looks or alone in the deep middle. In fact, from the Titans' last drive before the half until the end of the game, Hill was the single-high safety in over 80% of the snaps, and Terrence Brooks accompanied him in most of the two-deep looks from thereon.

 

I understand what you're getting at, though that's debatable given that we're already getting a glimpse of Hill at SS and he doesn't seem more dominant than he was at FS. I do agree on the disguising. I agree once more that we're giving up separation on the sidelines and that a faster FS would help in those circumstances. Above average instincts can help make up for the deficiency in foot speed, but the latter at the position would obviously be a plus, especially in the role we're discussing.

Edited October 23, 2015 by -Truth-

[ravensdan]

I would like us to take a look at Olivier Vernon if we want a free agent pass rusher. I've always liked him a lot. Maybe the Dolphins let him to due to the Suh deal.

That would be a game changer signing. I imagine he will command a lot though don't you think?

[GrimCoconut]

That would be a game changer signing. I imagine he will command a lot though don't you think?

I think so as well. I also don't know how we can sign a pass rusher with the money we already tied into the position with Dumervil and Suggs. For this reason I don't believe Upshaw returns. That would be a lot of money invested in our OLB corps. I also don't see why we should even bring Upshaw back, but that's another story altogether, lol. 

 

Still, Vernon would certainly help fix the team. 

[ravensdan]

When the ravens oline is intact it is easy to find a RB to be effective. Daryl Smith is getting old and slow. I mentioned last offseason replacing him with a fast physical 3 down LB. Bowman and Willis made the safety's look good and their job easy. Mosley with another fast physical 3 down LB would control the middle. Then adding Chancellor next to Hill and that is a defense that would command a name!!

Chancellor quite possibly the most overrated player in the NFL. He's not good in coverage. Not a FS

[ravensdan]

kam and hill play the same position not to mention have the same skill set.

would solve 0.

we need a earl thomas type at FS.

id trade hill for Kam though.

also my point was that even though what you say is true about forsett and smith , we still dont have the replacement on the roster which mean we most draft or sign one which adds to the many holes we need to fix.

if you do that you better hope brown and allen are the answers.

Hill is a much better player than kam.

[PurpleCity5]

Good example. Sanders was good when he was on the field though.

I remember hyping Webb up when he drafted him, but at some point you've just to learn to let go. He is simply too expensive for the amount of games he is still missing and for the production he has given when on it.

We can let him go but who would be his replacement? Unless we're signing a FA we have no one out there to replace Webb with.

[BSHU_Miami]

Winchester....you remind me of a former poster named Pirate88 and he had some off the wall predictions and trade ideas like colt lyreia, josh Gordon and Justin Blackmon and also didn't know how to use paragraphs.... Just thought I'll say that

[Kid87]

I think we need a Veteran WR like steve Smith, or as close a possible. Somebody tough. And then An upgrade in The secondary.

[-Truth-]

Chancellor quite possibly the most overrated player in the NFL. He's not good in coverage. Not a FS

 

I see two of those as overstatements. He's certainly not an FS, but he's a very good safety and he's at least formidable in coverage.