2016 free agency

[Sherly_Tebow]

Now I know this is probably at most a one year thing, but Andre Johnson is gonna be a free agent. He had a down year, and appeared to be in decline, but hey, who knows? Any chance we at least give him a look?

[edthehead]

18 minutes ago, Sherly_Tebow said:

Now I know this is probably at most a one year thing, but Andre Johnson is gonna be a free agent. He had a down year, and appeared to be in decline, but hey, who knows? Any chance we at least give him a look?

too old, nope for me

[Winchester]

With all the combine talk free agency is getting ignored. However in this era of free agents after 4 yrs free agency needs to be approached like the draft. Players must be found that can breakout but have yet to do so cuz ofvreasons like bad teams and bad motivation,no opportunity,bad schemes and surrounding talent, bad coaching, not challenged to be in best play shape and play weight. Are just some reasons good players underperform. Similar to finding a mid round gem in the draft. A couple players that could be impact players

Brian Quick. Derailed by injury but mostly terrible QB play. Great route runner,fast sudden, good ball skills and elusive after the catch for a 6'4 220lb player.

 

Mike Neal, similar skills to penetrating tackles!! Lean explosive strong. Many packers players on defense and offense underperform. Coach is terrible!! One of best edge rushers playing ilb for 2 yrs now!! Enough said about that terrible leadership and terrible schemes and motivation!! Fire the coach!!

Russell Okung. If ravens lose KO he could take one year prove it deal. Ravens nasty attitude along OLine could rub off.

Will add to list when I'm not  busy

Percy Harvin. Was playing a complete game before his injury. Could get him at very cheap and was showing route running and ball skills before his injury. Could be a steal with an accurate pocket QB like Joe Cool

Nick Fairly. Many teams forget how elite his raw skills are. Played well and he could be a pro bowler if he is in his best shape and motivated. Harbs is the best at motivating and challenging players to get in the best shape to max power and explosion.  could be a major free agency steal for ravens.

Aldon Smith Harbs brother got the most out of him and kept him out of trouble for most part. He is as skilled and explosive as any edge rusher.

Patrick Robinson talented explosive player. If properly coached and motivated he could maybe be a very solid cover cornerback for ravens.

Tashaun Gipson. Plays for browns could use better team.

 

On 2/23/2016 at 4:39 AM, Halshayeji said:

From the looks of it, you probably have seen the packers play a lot more than I have.

Nick Perr

Edited March 2, 2016 by Winchester

[usmccharles]

With Marques Colston being cut from NO, I will be interested to see where he lands, I always liked him.  New England?

[GrimCoconut]

6 hours ago, usmccharles said:

With Marques Colston being cut from NO, I will be interested to see where he lands, I always liked him.  New England?

Carolina makes some sense. 

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Carolina makes some sense. 

Yea didnt think of them. 

[Purple_City39]

I don't know if Carolina would make the move for Colston.  They made it to the superbowl this past season without Benjamin and get him back this year.  He's basically a faster, younger, Colston but his hands aren't as good.  

[Winchester]

21 hours ago, usmccharles said:

With Marques Colston being cut from NO, I will be interested to see where he lands, I always liked him.  New England?

Are not there some WRs coaching positions open?? He is a shell of Marques Colston!!

[Winchester]

Can not believe the ravens used the franchise tag on Tucker over KO!! Ravens are acting like a bad team last several years. Drafting to replace retired or aging players over pure impact. Contracts given to wrong players, causing team to lose good and dominant players,bad draft picks and the brightest spot on the team the OLine could be compromised when KO walks. Looks as if KO will get $11mil a yr now. Keep the dislikes coming homers.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Winchester

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, Winchester said:

Can not believe the ravens used the franchise tag on Tucker over KO!! Ravens are acting like a bad team last several years. Drafting to replace retired or aging players over pure impact. Contracts given to wrong players, causing team to lose good and dominant players,bad draft picks and the brightest spot on the team the OLine could be compromised when KO walks. Looks as if KO will get $11mil a yr now. Keep the dislikes coming homers.

You do realize that the difference in franchise tagging KO and Tucker is about 9million right?  Doesn't make sense to do that when we haven't worked a deal out with Joe.  That's like saying, Why would anyone buy a civic when you can buy a Ferrari, the money isn't there. 

What do you mean by that?

[Winchester]

7 hours ago, usmccharles said:

You do realize that the difference in franchise tagging KO and Tucker is about 9million right?  Doesn't make sense to do that when we haven't worked a deal out with Joe.  That's like saying, Why would anyone buy a civic when you can buy a Ferrari, the money isn't there. 

What do you mean by that?

Of course the idea is to not pay him franchise player gold!! The idea is to get leverage so the ravens can pay him a long contract that is fair to the team and player. As opposed to having to match whatever 31 rival teams will pay him!! I watched bout 30 mins of combine review and saw the ravens pretty much mocked for using the Franchise on a freaking kicker!! And leaving the most punishing drive blocker in the NFL free to walk!! And went on to give the opinion he is a future all pro and how feared and respected he is at locker room talk and league office circles. Homers do not like to hear about how terrible ravens players are. Or the terrible signings and picks of late. Nobody here likes Heath Evans. I will go out on a limb and say Heath Evans said something bad about the ravens or mocked the ravens moves?? 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Winchester

[rmcjacket23]

11 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Of course the idea is to not pay him franchise player gold!! The idea is to get leverage so the ravens can pay him a long contract that is fair to the team and player. As opposed to having to match whatever 31 rival teams will pay him!! I watched bout 30 mins of combine review and saw the ravens pretty much mocked for using the Franchise on a freaking kicker!! And leaving the most punishing drive blocker in the NFL free to walk!! And went on to give the opinion he is a future all pro and how feared and respected he is at locker room talk and league office circles. Homers do not like to hear about how terrible ravens players are. Or the terrible signings and picks of late. Nobody here likes Heath Evans. I will go out on a limb and say Heath Evans said something bad about the ravens or mocked the ravens moves?? 

LOL, the franchise tag for KO is $13.7M. 

He's not anywhere close to a $13.7M player, now or probably any time in the future.

If I were KO, and you tagged me at $13.7M, I wouldn't sign a single contract offer you made to me. I'd say "thank you very much" and play out the year at a good $3-4M more than what anybody else on the open market would pay me.

The entire concept of franchising a player is that the deal you will pay them on a long term deal is similar to one year average of the franchise tag. That's certainly not the case for KO by any possible measure, but it is certainly realistic for Tucker, since he's actually a top player at his position (as opposed to KO, who is not).

Since I don't watch the Combine (for obvious reasons), my guess would be any moron dumb enough to mock a team for using the franchise tag on a kicker doesn't understand football and certainly doesn't understand the franchise tag process. I guess they forgot to mock the SB champs last season for doing it, because they did. But hey, I guess the Patriots don't know what they're doing either right?

Some people need to wake up and get educated FAST.

[usmccharles]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, the franchise tag for KO is $13.7M. 

He's not anywhere close to a $13.7M player, now or probably any time in the future.

If I were KO, and you tagged me at $13.7M, I wouldn't sign a single contract offer you made to me. I'd say "thank you very much" and play out the year at a good $3-4M more than what anybody else on the open market would pay me.

The entire concept of franchising a player is that the deal you will pay them on a long term deal is similar to one year average of the franchise tag. That's certainly not the case for KO by any possible measure, but it is certainly realistic for Tucker, since he's actually a top player at his position (as opposed to KO, who is not).

Since I don't watch the Combine (for obvious reasons), my guess would be any moron dumb enough to mock a team for using the franchise tag on a kicker doesn't understand football and certainly doesn't understand the franchise tag process. I guess they forgot to mock the SB champs last season for doing it, because they did. But hey, I guess the Patriots don't know what they're doing either right?

Some people need to wake up and get educated FAST.

I eat my case.  Well said sir

[Winchester]

19 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, the franchise tag for KO is $13.7M. 

He's not anywhere close to a $13.7M player, now or probably any time in the future.

If I were KO, and you tagged me at $13.7M, I wouldn't sign a single contract offer you made to me. I'd say "thank you very much" and play out the year at a good $3-4M more than what anybody else on the open market would pay me.

The entire concept of franchising a player is that the deal you will pay them on a long term deal is similar to one year average of the franchise tag. That's certainly not the case for KO by any possible measure, but it is certainly realistic for Tucker, since he's actually a top player at his position (as opposed to KO, who is not).

Since I don't watch the Combine (for obvious reasons), my guess would be any moron dumb enough to mock a team for using the franchise tag on a kicker doesn't understand football and certainly doesn't understand the franchise tag process. I guess they forgot to mock the SB champs last season for doing it, because they did. But hey, I guess the Patriots don't know what they're doing either right?

Some people need to wake up and get educated FAST.

When KO signs for $10mil a year or more I will be sure to rub your nose in this. Players do not really like the franchise cuz there is injury risk involved. So the agent is more likely to push for a fair deal. The Pat's did not have a young stud to franchise. If Jamie Collins or Jones were free agents then the kicker would not have been franchised!! So different situation. And you are right people need to wake up. Homers think 5-11 is a fluke and think the ravens will be competing for a championship. lol And think SS and Suggs are going to be impact players coming off Achilles injuries at that age. lol And you are  wrong. The franchise is often to allow the team to negotiate without having to get into a bidding war with 31 teams.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Winchester

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Terrance Knighton reportedly hasnt had any talks with Washington to come back. I remember us reportedly and surprisingly having some interest in him last offseason when he left Denver. Popular thought was he'd receive a big contract but ended up having to sign a one year, prove it type deal.

Since hes a pure, 3-4 nose tackle there are only so many teams that could really use him to the best of his ability, and obviously we already have one of the best in Brandon Williams already in house... but if he doesnt get much interest and could be had for cheap I'd love to bring him in to bolster our d-line rotation. Could spell Williams to help keep him fresh, or maybe even get them both on the field on early down to occupy double teams.

Definitely not a need, but at the right price id like the move.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Also, Charles Casserly I believe mentioned Baltimore as a possible destination for Mario Williams. It's probably just spit balling and naming a team with clear need for pass rushing help. I dont think we'll be able to afford him with some of the other teams that also have a need and their enormous cap space, but its obviously an intriguing name.

He wouldnt be an every down OLB for us since he constantly complained about being dropped into coverage last year in Rex's 3-4, but maybe could be used like McPhee was and moved around the front 7 to exploit 1on1 matchups. I havent followed his career that closely, but could he be used as a 3-4 DE on early downs to get on the field? If not, i just cant see him being worth the money he'll probably get to do what Dumervil already does for us. Plus he's 31 I believe so doesnt help solve the long term issue, and would like block us from being able to get a guy like Bosa on the field much should he fall to us in the draft.

Ultimately i think he lands in Oakland to pair with Mack, in Jacksonville, Dallas to replace Hardy/Gregory, or maybe the Giants if they cant keep JPP.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

48 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Of course the idea is to not pay him franchise player gold!! The idea is to get leverage so the ravens can pay him a long contract that is fair to the team and player. As opposed to having to match whatever 31 rival teams will pay him!! I watched bout 30 mins of combine review and saw the ravens pretty much mocked for using the Franchise on a freaking kicker!! And leaving the most punishing drive blocker in the NFL free to walk!! And went on to give the opinion he is a future all pro and how feared and respected he is at locker room talk and league office circles. Homers do not like to hear about how terrible ravens players are. Or the terrible signings and picks of late. Nobody here likes Heath Evans. I will go out on a limb and say Heath Evans said something bad about the ravens or mocked the ravens moves?? 

Tagging KO would give him a cap hit of the average of the top 5 highest paid olineman in the league... for cap calculations with the tag i dont believe they differentiate between tackle and guard. It'd be a dumb move.

And it doesnt give the Ravens any leverage. KO could hold out of offseason activities for a long term deal. And then you're in a position of taking a HUGE hit for a guy that isnt giving it his all bc he doesnt want to get injured, or having to pay the guy basically whatever he wants. We've made him an aggressive offer. Hes obviously going to measure it against what he's offered in FA which is what he should do and I bet he gives us a chance to match any offers he gets.

Tagging a guy who doesnt want to be tagged almost never works out. Sure it gives us more time to negotiate and ultimately keep the player for one more year, but KO at top 5 tackle money when we're not 100% sure he can be a great LT makes no sense. Great we have more time to try and get a deal done, but we'd have absolutely no flexibility to get anything else done in FA.

As much as I love KO, keeping him for 1 more year isnt worth us not being able to do anything at all in FA. Keeping KO under the tag would chew up all of the money freed up by a Flacco extension and then some. It's an absolutely horrible idea.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2016 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[Winchester]

On 3/1/2016 at 11:38 PM, Winchester said:

With all the combine talk free agency is getting ignored. However in this era of free agents after 4 yrs free agency needs to be approached like the draft. Players must be found that can breakout but have yet to do so cuz ofvreasons like bad teams and bad motivation,no opportunity,bad schemes and surrounding talent, bad coaching, not challenged to be in best play shape and play weight. Are just some reasons good players underperform. Similar to finding a mid round gem in the draft. A couple players that could be impact players

Brian Quick. Derailed by injury but mostly terrible QB play. Great route runner,fast sudden, good ball skills and elusive after the catch for a 6'4 220lb player.

 

Mike Neal, similar skills to penetrating tackles!! Lean explosive strong. Many packers players on defense and offense underperform. Coach is terrible!! One of best edge rushers playing ilb for 2 yrs now!! Enough said about that terrible leadership and terrible schemes and motivation!! Fire the coach!!

Russell Okung. If ravens lose KO he could take one year prove it deal. Ravens nasty attitude along OLine could rub off.

Will add to list when I'm not  busy

Percy Harvin. Was playing a complete game before his injury. Could get him at very cheap and was showing route running and ball skills before his injury. Could be a steal with an accurate pocket QB like Joe Cool

Nick Fairly. Many teams forget how elite his raw skills are. Played well and he could be a pro bowler if he is in his best shape and motivated. Harbs is the best at motivating and challenging players to get in the best shape to max power and explosion.  could be a major free agency steal for ravens.

Aldon Smith Harbs brother got the most out of him and kept him out of trouble for most part. He is as skilled and explosive as any edge rusher in the league.

Patrick Robinson talented explosive player. If properly coached and motivated he could maybe be a very solid cover cornerback for ravens.

Tashaun Gipson. Plays for browns could use better team.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Winchester

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, Winchester said:

When KO signs for $10mil a year or more I will be sure to rub your nose in this. Players do not really like the franchise cuz there is injury risk involved. So the agent is more likely to push for a fair deal. The Pat's did not have a young stud to franchise. If Jamie Collins or Jones were free agents then the kicker would not have been franchised!! So different situation. And you are right people need to wake up. Homers think 5-11 is a fluke and think the ravens will be competing for a championship. lol And think SS and Suggs are going to be impact players coming off Achilles injuries at that age. lol And you are  wrong. The franchise is often to allow the team to negotiate without having to get into a bidding war with 31 teams.

Well, when he signs for $10M a year, that will be almost $4M a year LESS than the franchise tag, so I would be the one coming back to rub your nose in it. When he signs for $12M a year (which he won't), I would still be the one rubbing your nose in it, because getting in the habit of overpaying players isn't good, which is precisely what you are advocating by franchise tagging KO. You are quite literally the only person on the planet who thinks thats a realistic option... that should tell you something alone.

Keep in mind also that a franchise tag means the Ravens actually have to carry a $13.7M cap hit until they get an extension done, which would take several months at least, and likely not until July. That's not good for a team with so little cap space.

The franchise tag is to keep another player off the market and buy more time to negotiate. That's it. If every team just franchise tagged players regardless of assessing their worth (which in this case you clearly aren't), then every team would use the franchise tag every year. But they don't, because there's risk to the franchise tag. If you spent the time and looked at the guys who have been franchised tagged, you'd see that their value's are very close to the actual franchise tag amount. This is not a coincidence.

Jamie Collins isn't even a FA this season, so I'm not sure what point playing the "if pigs could fly" game is to your weak argument.

[Winchester]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, when he signs for $10M a year, that will be almost $4M a year LESS than the franchise tag, so I would be the one coming back to rub your nose in it. When he signs for $12M a year (which he won't), I would still be the one rubbing your nose in it, because getting in the habit of overpaying players isn't good, which is precisely what you are advocating by franchise tagging KO. You are quite literally the only person on the planet who thinks thats a realistic option... that should tell you something alone.

Keep in mind also that a franchise tag means the Ravens actually have to carry a $13.7M cap hit until they get an extension done, which would take several months at least, and likely not until July. That's not good for a team with so little cap space.

The franchise tag is to keep another player off the market and buy more time to negotiate. That's it. If every team just franchise tagged players regardless of assessing their worth (which in this case you clearly aren't), then every team would use the franchise tag every year. But they don't, because there's risk to the franchise tag. If you spent the time and looked at the guys who have been franchised tagged, you'd see that their value's are very close to the actual franchise tag amount. This is not a coincidence.

Jamie Collins isn't even a FA this season, so I'm not sure what point playing the "if pigs could fly" game is to your weak argument.

Ravens are in the habit of overpaying in case you have not noticed!! How many players are not playing to contracts?? No excuses!! like injuries or whatever cuz i know how homers think.lol Why not shell out for an actual stud!! And he still would not be overpaid cuz he is getting better. I said "if" a stud PLAYER like Collins or Jones were free agents then the Pat's would not have used franchise on a kicker!! I bet you are one of the Homers who think the ravens are going right back to playoffs and winning a playoff game??

[GrimCoconut]

10 hours ago, Winchester said:

Can not believe the ravens used the franchise tag on Tucker over KO!! Ravens are acting like a bad team last several years. Drafting to replace retired or aging players over pure impact. Contracts given to wrong players, causing team to lose good and dominant players,bad draft picks and the brightest spot on the team the OLine could be compromised when KO walks. Looks as if KO will get $11mil a yr now. Keep the dislikes coming homers.

What if we put the tag on Tucker over KO because we want to extend KO but Tucker we're not close to agreement on a new deal so we're letting Tucker play out his tag and reassess next year in a win win for both the Ravens and Tucker?

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Ravens are in the habit of overpaying in case you have not noticed!! How many players are not playing to contracts?? No excuses!! like injuries or whatever cuz i know how homers think.lol Why not shell out for an actual stud!! And he still would not be overpaid cuz he is getting better. I said "if" a stud PLAYER like Collins or Jones were free agents then the Pat's would not have used franchise on a kicker!! I bet you are one of the Homers who think the ravens are going right back to playoffs and winning a playoff game??

So your solution to not overpaying players is to overpay another player? Brilliant work. Any way you slice it, $13.7M for KO is overpaying him, regardless of whether he gets better or worse.

Sorry, I'm not an "IF" guy. I'm more of a common sense, facts, look at the evidence and make intelligent judgments kind of guy. I don't pretend like things that were never going to happen could have happened to make a bad argument. Not my style. 

Time will tell if we go back to the playoffs or not. I can say, for certain, that overpaying a guy who's played LT for half a season by $3-4M a year, which is what you are proposing, doesn't put us an inch closer to getting back to the playoffs though. You'd have to be a pretty big homer to believe that.

[usmccharles]

35 minutes ago, Winchester said:

When KO signs for $10mil a year or more I will be sure to rub your nose in this. Players do not really like the franchise cuz there is injury risk involved. So the agent is more likely to push for a fair deal. The Pat's did not have a young stud to franchise. If Jamie Collins or Jones were free agents then the kicker would not have been franchised!! So different situation. And you are right people need to wake up. Homers think 5-11 is a fluke and think the ravens will be competing for a championship. lol And think SS and Suggs are going to be impact players coming off Achilles injuries at that age. lol And you are  wrong. The franchise is often to allow the team to negotiate without having to get into a bidding war with 31 teams.

5-11 with the most injuries in the league, losing all those games by 8 or less.  The Jacksonville "loss."  who did we lose last season to make us 5-11 since you always blame us losing on not paying players to dollar,  even when we don't even have the money to do so

[52520Andrew]

50 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I eat my case.  Well said sir

What did it taste like?

As for topic at hand, fun fact: There is this thing called a salary cap and you can't just spend on franchising an O-linemen when you don't have the space.

Another fun fact: Franchise tags are kinda not the same price for players with different positions. 

[usmccharles]

5 minutes ago, 52520Andrew said:

What did it taste like?

As for topic at hand, fun fact: There is this thing called a salary cap and you can't just spend on franchising an O-linemen when you don't have the space.

Another fun fact: Franchise tags are kinda not the same price for players with different positions. 

Like more Cap space

[Winchester]

27 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

5-11 with the most injuries in the league, losing all those games by 8 or less.  The Jacksonville "loss."  who did we lose last season to make us 5-11 since you always blame us losing on not paying players to dollar,  even when we don't even have the money to do so

Ravens were already losing games before many of the injuries. What difference makers are the ravens getting back?? Seriously!! And when KO gets his recognition and is all pro then he is not getting overpaid then is he?? Would you prefer to pay A stud like KO to be paid $10mil a year or an overrated scrub like Jimmy to get $10mil per year?? Keep in mind there will be no excuses for Jimmy on this go round!!

[usmccharles]

36 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Ravens were already losing games before many of the injuries. What difference makers are the ravens getting back?? Seriously!! And when KO gets his recognition and is all pro then he is not getting overpaid then is he?? Would you prefer to pay A stud like KO to be paid $10mil a year or an overrated scrub like Jimmy to get $10mil per year?? Keep in mind there will be no excuses for Jimmy on this go round!!

I tend to be a positive person but I'm objective.   One losing season in 8 years is a fluke and not the norm By definition, a year ago we had  14 point lead on the pats,  twice.   I'm willing to give the offense the benefit of the doubt and hope our defense steps up.   I don't get how your always so negative.    

[redlobster]

Ravens cleared the Flacco cap space to sign Alex Mack at Center :-)

[rmcjacket23]

44 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Ravens were already losing games before many of the injuries. What difference makers are the ravens getting back?? Seriously!! And when KO gets his recognition and is all pro then he is not getting overpaid then is he?? Would you prefer to pay A stud like KO to be paid $10mil a year or an overrated scrub like Jimmy to get $10mil per year?? Keep in mind there will be no excuses for Jimmy on this go round!!

That would depend on what position they are playing. KO only gets $10M a year as a LT, not as a Guard. The jury is largely still out on whether KO is a $10M a year player as a LT.

As a Guard, I wouldn't pay a single player in the league $10M, because I can get really, really good Guards for half that price. He's not twice as good as a $5M a year Guard.

Corners make more money because they are more valuable to the team. There's a smaller supply of good one's and they are in higher demand, hence why Jimmy gets $10M. 

KO actually proves this point, since everything people are saying about him they were saying when we let Grubbs go, who was a first round pick. Then, we replace him and his gigantic salary with a little-known second round pick from a non-powerhouse College, and he performs better than Grubbs. No different than Yanda... not exactly investing high-round picks in these guys, which shows you its not that difficult to find quality interior lineman in the middle rounds of drafts.

As such, doesn't make much sense to commit $15-20M of your salary cap to a couple of Guards. 

[rmcjacket23]

48 minutes ago, Winchester said:

Ravens were already losing games before many of the injuries. What difference makers are the ravens getting back?? Seriously!! And when KO gets his recognition and is all pro then he is not getting overpaid then is he?? Would you prefer to pay A stud like KO to be paid $10mil a year or an overrated scrub like Jimmy to get $10mil per year?? Keep in mind there will be no excuses for Jimmy on this go round!!

And at $10M a year, he wouldn't be overpaid. But you want him at $13-14M a year, which is the franchise tag price.

At that price, he will be overpaid as an All-Pro most likely. I don't suspect he ends up as an All-Pro LT anyway, so this argument is probably moot. There's a lot of really good LTs who have proven a lot more than him and will probably continue to be a lot better than him.