2016 free agency

[Tru11]

I said two of them. We'll have enough cap for that.

 

well how about you explain how we got that cap and at what price we are going to sign them?

 

as of now we only have 5,4 mil free cap next season....

this is with 46 players under contract, dead money off the books and the cap going up 7 150mil.

we also need cap to sign rookies , give out tenders and maybe even tag tucker.

heck we need money to get at least 51 players under contract lol

 

i cant wait to see your detailed explanation on how can sign not 1 but 2 high priced FA...

Edited October 26, 2015 by Tru11

[rmcjacket23]

lol exactly dude. But clean players with pro bowl talent are expensive and top draft picks. The ravens won with clean players. But in today's NFL Ray Lewis may have been cut.yikes!! Just because somebody does not have a ring does not mean they are not difference makers or game changers. The ravens have no impact players right now outside Yanda and Mosley if he is on. Dumervil is 32-33 and does not look to have the same burst he once did. Hardy does look like a psychopath but I heard he did not do everything the girl claimed. She did not even have marks for proof.

Right, so we don't need to be signing Greg Hardy's. We need to be drafting players or signing players who are dependable, which he is not.

 

Dumervil doesn't look the same because he's never been the kind of pass rusher who can take over a game on his own. When he lines up opposite another rusher that players have to respect, he performs great, as he did last season. There is no #2 rusher on this team right now, which wasn't predictable, given that nobody could have anticipated Suggs would tear his achilles in week 1.

[rmcjacket23]

well how about you explain how we got that cap and at what price we are going to sign them?

 

as of now we only have 5,4 mil free cap next season....

this is with 46 players under contract, dead money off the books and the cap going up 7 150mil.

we also need cap to sign rookies , give out tenders and maybe even tag tucker.

heck we need money to get at least 51 players under contract lol

 

i cant wait to see your detailed explanation on how can sign not 1 but 2 high priced FA...

Will be dependent on who we cut and how much savings we get from a Flacco extension.

 

We will basically head into the season, after assigning tenders and accounting for draft picks, with basically $0 in cap space. There's room to be created through obvious cuts/retirements, but the biggest gain will be dependent on what happens with Joe's contract. 

 

My guess is that we will create about $8-10M in free space by extending Joe, and possibly creating another $5M or so through releases. So looking at maybe $15-20M in cap space to spend would be my guess.

 

We won't be able to sign two high priced FAs most likely.

[Winchester]

1. Maxx carries quite a bit of baby fat that I will say. I have read your previous posts and while I agree he needs to lose fat and gain muscle I think that is something that will come with him growing up. He's 21 years old and not everyone has started to peak physically at that age. Everyone is different. Jeremy Shockey in his younger years was a bit soft like Maxx, but as he matured he became I ripped monster. Maxx has a baby face, he clearly hasn't began peaking physically yet and I think you fail to realize this. Everybody's bodies are different. To compare him to a freak like Gronk is just unrealistic.

2. If you are underwhelmed with Maxx's "mediocre" numbers here are some other tight ends with mediocre numbers when they were rookies...

Jason Witten(21) 35 rec 347 yards

Todd Heap(21) 16 rec 206 yards

Greg Olsen(22) 29 rec 391 yards

Shannon Sharpe(22) 7 rec 99 yards

Jackie Smith(23) 28 rec 445 yards

Kellen Winslow(22) 25 rec 255 yards

Dave Casper(23) 4 rec 26 yards

Maxx is on pace for 36 rec and over 300 yards...But I guess these guys I listed above are just mediocre. None of them are hall of famers or anything.

I agree Gronk is a little unfair of a comparison. However my opinion, Maxx does not have the speed or suddenness of any of the modern players on that list. Nor any other modern impact TEs like Olsen,Thomas,kelce,Cameron,Reed,Clay or even Pitta before his injuries to name a couple. My point is this. He is not really an upgrade over Gilmore as a receiving threat. So what is the point in trading up for him?? And oz missed a lot of impact talent by picking Maxx. He will bulk up and add some muscle probably. But that is not babyfat!! At 21 a male is leaner than he will ever be naturally without nutrition and training programs. I talk about his flabby bod because he is no better or more explosive than Gilmore. And if he is going to be the receiving threat he was drafted to be then he needs to somehow find an extra gear. This draft is not the one to be picking a TE based on need. Edited October 26, 2015 by Winchester

[Tru11]

Will be dependent on who we cut and how much savings we get from a Flacco extension.

 

We will basically head into the season, after assigning tenders and accounting for draft picks, with basically $0 in cap space. There's room to be created through obvious cuts/retirements, but the biggest gain will be dependent on what happens with Joe's contract. 

 

My guess is that we will create about $8-10M in free space by extending Joe, and possibly creating another $5M or so through releases. So looking at maybe $15-20M in cap space to spend would be my guess.

 

We won't be able to sign two high priced FAs most likely.

 

yup i dont see it happening either.

 

first priority would be to resign/tagg tucker and make an offer to osemele and other pending FA we would like to keep,

 

highly unrealistic to outbid other teams for 2 priced FA.....

[rmcjacket23]

yup i dont see it happening either.

 

first priority would be to resign/tagg tucker and make an offer to osemele and other pending FA we would like to keep,

 

highly unrealistic to outbid other teams for 2 priced FA.....

I think KO is as good as gone. Of the UFAs, Tucker gets a deal and MAYBE Upshaw, because I think the Ravens like his run-stopping ability.

 

Players with significant salaries I think get cut/retire (cap savings):

 

Steve Smith... retired ($3M cap savings)

Dennis Pitta... retired ($0.6M cap savings)

Chris Canty ($2.15M cap savings)

Daryl Smith: ($2.625M cap savings)

 

I suspect you'll see about $8-10M in savings from the Flacco extension. Conservatively say maybe $5M in cap hit to retain Tucker and I'll guess Upshaw, and I'll guess we will be right around $15M in cap space after extending Flacco, cutting/retiring the four players above, and resigning Tucker, Upshaw, and our tendered FAs.

[Cillmatic]

well how about you explain how we got that cap and at what price we are going to sign them?

as of now we only have 5,4 mil free cap next season....

this is with 46 players under contract, dead money off the books and the cap going up 7 150mil.

we also need cap to sign rookies , give out tenders and maybe even tag tucker.

heck we need money to get at least 51 players under contract lol

i cant wait to see your detailed explanation on how can sign not 1 but 2 high priced FA...

Nevermind, this team sucks and can't sign anyone. That better?

[rmcjacket23]

Nevermind, this team sucks and can't sign anyone. That better?

Well, the former is definitely true.

 

Wouldn't say they can't sign anyone, but if anybody thinks we are going to be dropping $8-10M a year on a Corner, Safety, WR, etc. in FA this coming offseason, I'd start preparing for disappointment now.

[Winchester]

Well, the former is definitely true.

Wouldn't say they can't sign anyone, but if anybody thinks we are going to be dropping $8-10M a year on a Corner, Safety, WR, etc. in FA this coming offseason, I'd start preparing for disappointment now.

Ravens could be looking at reload next year or 2. If they don't sign somebody they will not be much better next year. Unless they find a legit WR and SS returns and offense can carry defense. Who would want upshaw back?? He is a bust!! Edited October 26, 2015 by Winchester

[Tru11]

Nevermind, this team sucks and can't sign anyone. That better?

 

its a pretty good and realistic reflection of how things stand right now.

[52liveforever]

I agree Gronk is a little unfair of a comparison. However my opinion, Maxx does not have the speed or suddenness of any of the modern players on that list. Nor any other modern impact TEs like Olsen,Thomas,kelce,Cameron,Reed,Clay or even Pitta before his injuries to name a couple. My point is this. He is not really an upgrade over Gilmore as a receiving threat. So what is the point in trading up for him?? And oz missed a lot of impact talent by picking Maxx. He will bulk up and add some muscle probably. But that is not babyfat!! At 21 a male is leaner than he will ever be naturally without nutrition and training programs. I talk about his flabby bod because he is no better or more explosive than Gilmore. And if he is going to be the receiving threat he was drafted to be then he needs to somehow find an extra gear. This draft is not the one to be picking a TE based on need.

I'm not going to completely disagree with you because you do have some points, but I think you're being a little hasty on your judgement. He has looked pretty solid to me as a rookie and such a young kid.

Not every player has to fit the mold. I personally wasn't a fan of trading up at the time either and personally had guys I wanted more, but we can say that about any draft for any team. Maxx is going to be a good player and was a good pick. I had others I would've liked more, but I'm happy with it.

Let's just wait until next year this time to continue this discussion because I see him having a big year 2 and if I'm wrong then well you can call me out.

[rmcjacket23]

Ravens could be looking at reload next year or 2. If they don't sign somebody they will not be much better next year. Unless they find a legit WR and SS returns and offense can carry defense. Who would want upshaw back?? He is a bust!!

Dependent on a lot of factors. Technically, they aren't a ton different in most areas than they were last season, when they win double digit games, won a playoff game, and came as close to beating the Patriots as anybody.

 

I think the Ravens will want Upshaw back, because I think he's done mostly what they've wanted him to be all along. He looks worse this year because he's been forced into a role that he's not good at (everydown OLB rushing the passer as well as stopping the run).

 

He won't be high priced, and letting him go just means you have to address the position elsewhere, and there's only so many draft picks and so much money to spend.

 

The term "bust" is widely overused by fans who really don't understand the concept to begin with. They think a second round pick who largely does what he was drafted to do that doesn't turn into JJ Watt is a bust. 

 

Its why fans aren't asked their opinions on personnel decisions...

[Tru11]

I think KO is as good as gone. Of the UFAs, Tucker gets a deal and MAYBE Upshaw, because I think the Ravens like his run-stopping ability.

 

Players with significant salaries I think get cut/retire (cap savings):

 

Steve Smith... retired ($3M cap savings)

Dennis Pitta... retired ($0.6M cap savings)

Chris Canty ($2.15M cap savings)

Daryl Smith: ($2.625M cap savings)

 

I suspect you'll see about $8-10M in savings from the Flacco extension. Conservatively say maybe $5M in cap hit to retain Tucker and I'll guess Upshaw, and I'll guess we will be right around $15M in cap space after extending Flacco, cutting/retiring the four players above, and resigning Tucker, Upshaw, and our tendered FAs.

 

15 M would be nice but its still would rank us among the teams with the least to spend though.

 

its pretty much going to depend on and if flacco is going to get an extension done and when the deal gets done.

 

i just dont see this team blowing 15 mil on just 2 players when we will have numerous holes to fill.

[rmcjacket23]

15 M would be nice but its still would rank us among the teams with the least to spend though.

 

its pretty much going to depend on and if flacco is going to get an extension done and when the deal gets done.

 

i just dont see this team blowing 15 mil on just 2 players when we will have numerous holes to fill.

Correct, it won't be that much. It seems like a lot to some fans, but it will definitely be in the bottom third in the league in space.

 

What I've been harping on for fans for weeks now... people see the dollar amount of cap space and say "o look how much we have". Without perspective, its meaningless. We could have $50M in cap space, but if the rest of the league has $100M in cap space, you've got nothing.

[Tru11]

Correct, it won't be that much. It seems like a lot to some fans, but it will definitely be in the bottom third in the league in space.

 

What I've been harping on for fans for weeks now... people see the dollar amount of cap space and say "o look how much we have". Without perspective, its meaningless. We could have $50M in cap space, but if the rest of the league has $100M in cap space, you've got nothing.

 

yup our 15 mil means nothing compared to the raiders for instance who will have around 70 mil......

[Purple_City39]

I think KO is as good as gone. Of the UFAs, Tucker gets a deal and MAYBE Upshaw, because I think the Ravens like his run-stopping ability.

 

Players with significant salaries I think get cut/retire (cap savings):

 

Steve Smith... retired ($3M cap savings)

Dennis Pitta... retired ($0.6M cap savings)

Chris Canty ($2.15M cap savings)

Daryl Smith: ($2.625M cap savings)

 

I suspect you'll see about $8-10M in savings from the Flacco extension. Conservatively say maybe $5M in cap hit to retain Tucker and I'll guess Upshaw, and I'll guess we will be right around $15M in cap space after extending Flacco, cutting/retiring the four players above, and resigning Tucker, Upshaw, and our tendered FAs.

Other potential cut options:

 

Lawrence Guy and Anthony Levine ($1M savings each)

Justin Forsett ($2.3M savings) but likely only if Allen shows out

Lardarius Webb ($3.9M savings)

Jeremy Zuttah ($1.28M savings

 

There are other cap savings but I don't think those are likely due to position, performance, and lack of actual talent behind them.

[Purple_City39]

Ravens could be looking at reload next year or 2. If they don't sign somebody they will not be much better next year. Unless they find a legit WR and SS returns and offense can carry defense. Who would want upshaw back?? He is a bust!!

Why is Upshaw a bust?  Because he doesn't get sacks?

[Cillmatic]

Why is Upshaw a bust? Because he doesn't get sacks?

Or pressure

[rmcjacket23]

Or pressure

Ideally, he wouldn't be asked to do this. When Suggs and Dumervil are healthy, he's not even on the field in situations requiring QB pressure.

[rmcjacket23]

Other potential cut options:

 

Lawrence Guy and Anthony Levine ($1M savings each)

Justin Forsett ($2.3M savings) but likely only if Allen shows out

Lardarius Webb ($3.9M savings)

Jeremy Zuttah ($1.28M savings

 

There are other cap savings but I don't think those are likely due to position, performance, and lack of actual talent behind them.

Correct, I only put a couple options out there that I felt are more realistic.

 

I can't see Zuttah going anywhere... he's playing well and they have no replacement option available, and he's relatively inexpensive. Webb is the wildcard unknown, though unless they add at least 1-2 corners in FA/draft, I still see him being here for one more year.

 

Forsett is interesting, because conventional wisdom says keep him, but if for some reason a high end RB becomes available in the draft, I could definitely see him being expendable.

[balfan23]

Ravens could be looking at reload next year or 2. If they don't sign somebody they will not be much better next year. Unless they find a legit WR and SS returns and offense can carry defense. Who would want upshaw back?? He is a bust!!

Just like with "elite" ... "bust" is a matter of how you define it. Some use the term for players who don't play to the level of their draft selection - without much regard to how far off the mark they are. 

 

A player who doesn't really play to the level of their draft selection, but provides a meaningful role and plays that role for a number of years ... that to me is not a bust. Disappointing, perhaps, but not a bust.

 

That is what Upshaw is in my mind. 

[rmw10]

Just like with "elite" ... "bust" is a matter of how you define it. Some use the term for players who don't play to the level of their draft selection - without much regard to how far off the mark they are.

A player who doesn't really play to the level of their draft selection, but provides a meaningful role and plays that role for a number of years ... that to me is not a bust. Disappointing, perhaps, but not a bust.

That is what Upshaw is in my mind.

Same. He's definitely a disappointment compared to his draft position, but at least he's been a useful player for us.

[balfan23]

I think KO is as good as gone. Of the UFAs, Tucker gets a deal and MAYBE Upshaw, because I think the Ravens like his run-stopping ability.

 

Players with significant salaries I think get cut/retire (cap savings):

 

Steve Smith... retired ($3M cap savings)

Dennis Pitta... retired ($0.6M cap savings)

Chris Canty ($2.15M cap savings)

Daryl Smith: ($2.625M cap savings)

 

I suspect you'll see about $8-10M in savings from the Flacco extension. Conservatively say maybe $5M in cap hit to retain Tucker and I'll guess Upshaw, and I'll guess we will be right around $15M in cap space after extending Flacco, cutting/retiring the four players above, and resigning Tucker, Upshaw, and our tendered FAs.

The only one there I'm not sure about is D. Smith. 

 

I do think the plan was that we'd not be carrying him for the final year on his contract and that our 2nd rounder (with a trade up) in Brown would be more than ready to take that slot. I see no evidence to indicate that he is (or ever will be). 

 

How do you see us filling his spot? Are you thinking we'd go for a lower-cost ILB option on the FA? I think we'd have to go that route, because I don't see anyone on our roster for 2016 that I think we'd be willing to use as a starter. Anyway you slice it, I think the move would result in a downgrade at the position. 

[Winchester]

Dependent on a lot of factors. Technically, they aren't a ton different in most areas than they were last season, when they win double digit games, won a playoff game, and came as close to beating the Patriots as anybody.

I think the Ravens will want Upshaw back, because I think he's done mostly what they've wanted him to be all along. He looks worse this year because he's been forced into a role that he's not good at (everydown OLB rushing the passer as well as stopping the run).

He won't be high priced, and letting him go just means you have to address the position elsewhere, and there's only so many draft picks and so much money to spend.

The term "bust" is widely overused by fans who really don't understand the concept to begin with. They think a second round pick who largely does what he was drafted to do that doesn't turn into JJ Watt is a bust.

Its why fans aren't asked their opinions on personnel decisions...

He was practically a #1 pick. Getting after the qb is key. Edge setting is just minor details in the modern nfl. While Brady or Rogers is throwing for 400 yards and 5 tds who is really that worried about some obscure RB running for 80 yards. He was not brought in to be a role player. Ozzie even said we feel like we got the best edge rusher in the draft. So that is bull that he is not expected to rush the qb. Did Didnt Harbs say he would like to see more pressure on the QB from Upshaw. Saying he needs to be jj watt is an attempt to overblow the expectations he failed miserably to meet. Any team that this guy has any value to at a key position is not a contender. If this scrub is appreciated at all it means the team is that terrible the standards have been lowered. I never liked Upshaw from the day he was drafted. Edited October 26, 2015 by Winchester

[Winchester]

Why is Upshaw a bust?  Because he doesn't get sacks?

Yep

[balfan23]

Other potential cut options:

 

Lawrence Guy and Anthony Levine ($1M savings each)

Justin Forsett ($2.3M savings) but likely only if Allen shows out

Lardarius Webb ($3.9M savings)

Jeremy Zuttah ($1.28M savings

 

There are other cap savings but I don't think those are likely due to position, performance, and lack of actual talent behind them.

Absolutely agree on Guy, Levine and Webb. 

 

Since KO is all but gone (IMO) ... I have to think Zuttah is safe. If KO goes, then I'll assume we will expect Urschel to fill that spot. I just don't think we want to deplete the o line and I don't think we will want to expend significant resources (either FA $ or draft picks) there, given the acute needs we have in other areas. 

 

Forsett is a possibility ... perhaps. I guess I didn't think of him as a cut option, because IMO he is more than earning his keep. LT keeps getting hurt and Allen, while promising, doesn't seem to be the go to guy at this point. I just don't think we save enough $ cutting him, when he's been really effective and we'd be seriously thin at the position if he's gone. 

[rmw10]

I think Guy is safe and worth the price tag. He's one of few finding ways to get pressure on the QB. He should be back as a quality reserve.

[rmcjacket23]

He was practically a #1 pick. Getting after the qb is key. Edge setting is just minor details in the modern nfl. While Brady or Rogers is throwing for 400 yards and 5 tds who is really that worried about some obscure RB running for 80 yards. He was not brought in to be a role player. Ozzie even said we feel like we got the best edge rusher in the draft. So that is bull that he is not expected to rush the qb. Did Didnt Harbs say he would like to see more pressure on the QB from Upshaw. Saying he needs to be jj watt is an attempt to overblow the expectations he failed miserably to meet. Any team that this guy has any value to at a key position is not a contender. If this scrub is appreciated at all it means the team is that terrible the standards have been lowered. I never liked Upshaw from the day he was drafted.

Umm, no, completely wrong.

 

He was a 2nd round pick. There aren't a ton of high-end edge rushers coming out of the second round in drafts. He was drafted to be the replacement for JJ, who also wasn't overly good at getting to the QB. He was drafted to stop the run.

 

Harbs said he would like to see him get to the QB more because 1. we just lost Pernell McPhee to FA and 2. we lost Suggs to injury. 

 

Failing to meet expectations is subjective, because it depends on what the expectations were to begin with. Obviously, neither you nor I are capable of speaking for the franchise's expectations, because neither of us know specifically what they were. If he gets resigned in Baltimore, which I think he does, we will have a clue.

 

Whether he meets YOUR expectations or not is irrelevant. There was nothing on film from him in Alabama to indicate this guy was going to be a quality edge rusher, so if you developed those expectations on your own, then the failed expectations is a YOU problem, not an Upshaw or Ravens problem.

 

Standard response from fans on these boards lately. Setting unreasonable, baseless expectations, and then complaining when players don't meet them. 

 

He's been a key player for us in the past, and we certainly were contenders then. So saying "they're not a contender because he's a key player" has already been proven false.

[balfan23]

I would have to think that Elam ($1.3M savings) will be let go. Depends on whether our team was really buying our own hype on how good he looked in camp. 

 

Unless Arrington ($1.4M) proves he has more to offer that what he's show so far, he could be tossed out as well. 

[balfan23]

I think Guy is safe and worth the price tag. He's one of few finding ways to get pressure on the QB. He should be back as a quality reserve.

Yeah - probably should have removed him from that list ... Levine yes, but Guy ... especially given we'll be parting ways with Canty, will likely be a keeper at his price.