The Dean Pees Thread (merged)

[redrum52]

Looking back,we messed up paying Webb over Cary Williams. In fact, If Cary was still here, Pees would have him playing 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and short too......unlike Seattle who kept him maybe 4 yds off ball

In the FO defense, they paid him, I think, after he was looking like a top 5 corner and had just drafted Jimmy. Also, we had Williams. The secondary looked solid at that point and Webb was suppose to be the new leader. A problem we've been having is, players getting hurt right after they're signed, or before their contract is up. Pitta, Jimmy, Webb and Monroe. Been unlucky in that department, especially when you consider the off the field stuff with Rice. No one would've seen that coming.

[Tru11]

nobody is defending the defense because they did play terrible.

 

what is going is that people are defending Pees since for some reason he is getting all the blame with the players not being held accountable at all.

 

heck look at the title......

[BmoreBird22]

What no one can answer is why? Why did we not see them? One player should not make that big a difference. It should not freeze you in your tracks that you do absolutely nothing. That is on the DC. And it is a problem.

I actually proposed an answer to this before. 

 

You have to consider that on the first drive of the game, Jimmy Smith gets flat out beat for a 68 yard touchdown. He was on an island and just gets beat. Then, on the next drive, the offense fumbles the ball in the red zone. When finally given a chance to respond, the offense only musters a field goal. Given that even though the against Denver, the defense did only allow 12 (I believe) points, they were also flown past three times by Emmanuel Sanders, but Peyton overthrew two and under threw one of those throws. Given that Smith did actually get beaten on a long play (and Webb later), plus playing with a 10 point deficit right away, Pees probably didn't want to get beat anymore. Smith is clearly not back to 100% and Arrington just flat out forgot how to play defense. Pees was playing with a deficit for almost the entire game after his guy got flat out beat. That's going to make you question being aggressive. To be aggressive, you have to have the faith that your guys can hold up.

 

On the particular Cooper touchdown, it was a five man rush with Daryl Smith being asked to play as a QB spy to ensure that Derek Carr, who has really good escapability and pocket presence, would not run and gain positive yardage. That left five different defenders against four receivers, two WR, one TE, and one HB. Too bad the safety was underneath and not over the top. Pees trusted his guys to just simply not get beat.

 

To be fair, I was not a fan of the play calling because Carr just sat back there so comfortably, but at the same time, Pees had a lot to consider, especially considering he's the one calling the plays and he doesn't get to second guess like all of us do.

 

And yes, one player can make that much of a difference when we're talking about a top three player at his position. Suggs not only rushes the passer well, but he defends the run at a really high level. Doom is tasked with replacing Suggs, but he's been a situational pass rusher to keep himself fresh. He's an absolutely porous run defender, so there's a drop off there in terms of run defending, and he's probably about on par with Suggs as far as pass rushing goes. So, then someone has to replace Doom. Naturally, the answer is Upshaw since he's a starter. Obviously a major upgrade in run defense, but an abysmal pass rusher who has a HUGE (cannot emphasize that enough) drop off in pass rushing talent. So, the Ravens are losing run defense on the weak side and pass rush on the strong side all because one player. And it's not a small drop off in either case, it's a major one. Suggs is majorly integral because he not only plays at a high level, but also allows other players to do their roles at a high level instead of being forced into roles they aren't good at.

[jazz1988]

 

And yes, one player can make that much of a difference when we're talking about a top three player at his position. Suggs not only rushes the passer well, but he defends the run at a really high level. Doom is tasked with replacing Suggs, but he's been a situational pass rusher to keep himself fresh. He's an absolutely porous run defender, so there's a drop off there in terms of run defending, and he's probably about on par with Suggs as far as pass rushing goes. So, then someone has to replace Doom. Naturally, the answer is Upshaw since he's a starter. Obviously a major upgrade in run defense, but an abysmal pass rusher who has a HUGE (cannot emphasize that enough) drop off in pass rushing talent. So, the Ravens are losing run defense on the weak side and pass rush on the strong side all because one player. And it's not a small drop off in either case, it's a major one. Suggs is majorly integral because he not only plays at a high level, but also allows other players to do their roles at a high level i

 

I wish Albert McClellan had some pass rush ability because it might have helped especially since the last time he was a starter  as outside back he received some positive grades from pro foot ball focus

[BmoreBird22]

I wish Albert McClellan had some pass rush ability because it might have helped especially since the last time he was a starter  as outside back he received some positive grades from pro foot ball focus

He has some, but it's nothing near consistent enough for what the Ravens need right now

[PurpleCity5]

I'm not the type to say "Fire So-and-So" but now that I think about it I wouldn't say Pees's job is safe. I mean when you look at it, there was high expectations coming from the Ravens on the secondary and the defense. In terms of talent, this team is talented on defense. I mean the safety's are much better, CBs are better, and the DL more or less is still good, FWIW I'm comparing the rosters from week 1 of the 2014 season to now. Even if you lose Suggs, Ngata, and McPhee, the guys on the defensive Line are still good enough not to under-preformed. Same can be said for the Linebackers who severely under-preformed.               

Edited September 24, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[Edgar]

Pees states in the Baltimore sun that scheme changes defensively are always under consideration but the unit's success in week one "PROVED it wasn't the scheme".

....uh......ok.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Edgar

[berad]

Pees states in the Baltimore sun that scheme changes defensively are always under consideration but the unit's success in week one "PROVED it wasn't the scheme".

....uh......ok.

 

Yeah, his press conference was all about needing more 'energy and effort' from the players... as he sits in the air conditioned booth and relies on his positional coaches to make adjustments and rally the troops.

[bMore Heathen]

Yeah, his press conference was all about needing more 'energy and effort' from the players... as he sits in the air conditioned booth and relies on his positional coaches to make adjustments and rally the troops.

Watching his press conference, it's really hard to think this guy is a good coach. He essentially says they don't spend much time on tackling because of the "physical nature of playing 20 games". Great plan, especially since we are a very poor tackling team. He then talks about how hard it is to tackle guys when they have a lot of space. He says it's a lot easier when your in close range to the ball carrier. So then WHY do we line up 10 yards off the receiver and then have the corners backpedal? Your giving the receiver more space to work with!?!

The same problems exist for pees entire tenure here; Soft off coverage essentially giving receivers 5-7 yards per play, poor tackling, and poor communication in the secondary. And listening to him talk to the media, none of that will change because the guy doesn't see a problem with his scheme. The scheme is designed to basically let teams move the ball, then tighten up in the red zone and force a field goal. Its a terrible scheme and it's the reason the cheaters let him go.

[GrimCoconut]

I don't necessarily think his scheme is bad. I think he's right that it takes the players to execute it. My biggest question is whether the players actually want to execute his scheme. I've always questioned whether the players buy into his scheme.

[PurpleCity5]

I don't necessarily think his scheme is bad. I think he's right that it takes the players to execute it. My biggest question is whether the players actually want to execute his scheme. I've always questioned whether the players buy into his scheme.

Yeah, I think Seattle runs a similar scheme, it works so well where they can back off since they're such great tacklers.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

I don't necessarily think his scheme is bad. I think he's right that it takes the players to execute it. My biggest question is whether the players actually want to execute his scheme. I've always questioned whether the players buy into his scheme.

Same thing I was thinking. Maybe they are not playing with "energy" because they don't buy into his scheme themselves?

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah, his press conference was all about needing more 'energy and effort' from the players... as he sits in the air conditioned booth and relies on his positional coaches to make adjustments and rally the troops.

Yeah, this isn't even close... sitting inside the booth is a duel edged sword, but the major advantage is that it allows the ENTIRE field to be seen and not be obstructed by tall lineman, referees, crowded clumps of players, etc. It's huge advantage is that it does allow the coordinator to see everything and make adjustments accordingly. 

[berad]

Yeah, this isn't even close... sitting inside the booth is a duel edged sword, but the major advantage is that it allows the ENTIRE field to be seen and not be obstructed by tall lineman, referees, crowded clumps of players, etc. It's huge advantage is that it does allow the coordinator to see everything and make adjustments accordingly. 

 

So Pees communicates that directly with the players?

 

Who's the best coordinator who's been in a booth? It's just ironic to talk about energy and effort when you sit for the entirety of the game.

Edited September 25, 2015 by berad

[BmoreBird22]

So Pees communicates that directly with the players?

That doesn't mean he's not making the adjustments. He relays all the calls and adjustments to the defensive staff and they then give it to the players. Jim Caldwell made the calls from the booth in 2012 and 2013, but did that mean that Jim Hostler was really the one making those calls and adjustments? I'm sure it does since he's currently the OC for the Ravens.

[bMore Heathen]

I don't necessarily think his scheme is bad. I think he's right that it takes the players to execute it. My biggest question is whether the players actually want to execute his scheme. I've always questioned whether the players buy into his scheme.

People say this a lot so after 4 years, he still can't find the right players? I just find that hard to believe. If the players aren't behind him then why is he still here? If the coach can't be changed then it has to be the players. I'm sorry but it's a lot easier to replace a coach than it is to replace all of the players on the entire defense. And it's not like we have terrible players. Maybe if the were taught the proper way to wrap up and tackle the defense would work better, right?

[berad]

That doesn't mean he's not making the adjustments. He relays all the calls and adjustments to the defensive staff and they then give it to the players. Jim Caldwell made the calls from the booth in 2012 and 2013, but did that mean that Jim Hostler was really the one making those calls and adjustments? I'm sure it does since he's currently the OC for the Ravens.

 

So he relies on assistant coaches to relay those messages and talk to the players. The positional coaches also make their own adjustments - independent of Pees - and hear feedback from the players, leading them to have more insight to what their temperment is and how to adjust to what they're experiencing on the field.

 

Jim Hostler as OC? Not following you there. Jim Caldwell did sit in the booth to coordinate one of the worst Ravens offensive seasons ever, yes.

[GrimCoconut]

People say this a lot so after 4 years, he still can't find the right players? I just find that hard to believe. If the players aren't behind him then why is he still here? If the coach can't be changed then it has to be the players. I'm sorry but it's a lot easier to replace a coach than it is to replace all of the players on the entire defense. And it's not like we have terrible players. Maybe if the were taught the proper way to wrap up and tackle the defense would work better, right?

Don't mistake my comment as an indication that I'm happy with sloppy tackling, decreased turnovers, and the same problems plaguing us since he took over. I'm not happy with these things but that doesn't mean he's a bad coordinator. He's called some truly excellent games.

I also agree that the players aren't as easily replaced. We have good players. Why couldn't he get this Darian Stewart out of the guy last year? Then again, it's a two way street. It's not fair to overlook the good Pees does for the bad.

[BmoreBird22]

So he relies on assistant coaches to relay those messages and talk to the players. The positional coaches also make their own adjustments - independent of Pees - and hear feedback from the players, leading them to have more insight to what their temperment is and how to adjust to what they're experiencing on the field.

 

Jim Hostler as OC? Not following you there. Jim Caldwell did sit in the booth to coordinate one of the worst Ravens offensive seasons ever, yes.

They can make individual adjustments for their unit, as they always did. For example, Pees probably isn't going to tell Timmy Jernigan that he needs to stop trying to knife the A-gap and that he needs to be more patient in holding his ground in the run game. That would fall under Clarence Brooks. But Brooks isn't going to tell the entire defense that they're going to send an overload blitz off the left side because the quarterback was slow to avoid pressure from his blindside. That's going to be a Pees adjustment. 

 

What I mean is that just because Pees doesn't directly communicate with the players (most players go to their positional coaches on the sidelines, regardless of the coordinator being on the sidelines) doesn't mean that he's not making adjustments. Caldwell sat in the booth in 2012 and 2013, but it was Hostler who relayed the calls, showing how little it means that he relayed the calls. And hey, Caldwell was the offensive coordinator for one of the greatest showings by a playoff quarterback, ever. 

[BmoreBird22]

Don't mistake my comment as an indication that I'm happy with sloppy tackling, decreased turnovers, and the same problems plaguing us since he took over. I'm not happy with these things but that doesn't mean he's a bad coordinator. He's called some truly excellent games.

I also agree that the players aren't as easily replaced. We have good players. Why couldn't he get this Darian Stewart out of the guy last year? Then again, it's a two way street. It's not fair to overlook the good Pees does for the bad.

Stewart had one good interception (when he was completely late in coverage) and then got exposed with several missed tackles and poor run defense against the Chiefs. Not too impressive through two weeks.

[The Raven]

Yeah, his press conference was all about needing more 'energy and effort' from the players... as he sits in the air conditioned booth and relies on his positional coaches to make adjustments and rally the troops.

 

He's right, regardless of the air conditioning. There was NO energy at all on the field against Oakland.

[The Raven]

So Pees communicates that directly with the players?

 

Who's the best coordinator who's been in a booth? It's just ironic to talk about energy and effort when you sit for the entirety of the game.

 

Ironic yes, but that doesn't make him wrong.

[bMore Heathen]

Don't mistake my comment as an indication that I'm happy with sloppy tackling, decreased turnovers, and the same problems plaguing us since he took over. I'm not happy with these things but that doesn't mean he's a bad coordinator. He's called some truly excellent games.

I also agree that the players aren't as easily replaced. We have good players. Why couldn't he get this Darian Stewart out of the guy last year? Then again, it's a two way street. It's not fair to overlook the good Pees does for the bad.

Right, but again every year we keep having the same problems. It's easy to say oh, well there were injuries. But the job of the coordinator is to call plays that put their players in the best position to succeed. If he's not doing that, and he's not working on the players weaknesses then what is the benefit of keeping him here?

[GrimCoconut]

Stewart had one good interception (when he was completely late in coverage) and then got exposed with several missed tackles and poor run defense against the Chiefs. Not too impressive through two weeks.

I was more or less talking turnovers there.

[berad]

They can make individual adjustments for their unit, as they always did. For example, Pees probably isn't going to tell Timmy Jernigan that he needs to stop trying to knife the A-gap and that he needs to be more patient in holding his ground in the run game. That would fall under Clarence Brooks. But Brooks isn't going to tell the entire defense that they're going to send an overload blitz off the left side because the quarterback was slow to avoid pressure from his blindside. That's going to be a Pees adjustment. 

 

What I mean is that just because Pees doesn't directly communicate with the players (most players go to their positional coaches on the sidelines, regardless of the coordinator being on the sidelines) doesn't mean that he's not making adjustments. Caldwell sat in the booth in 2012 and 2013, but it was Hostler who relayed the calls, showing how little it means that he relayed the calls. And hey, Caldwell was the offensive coordinator for one of the greatest showings by a playoff quarterback, ever. 

 

Yes, that's all true. I was pointing out the irony of bashing the 'energy and effort' of the unit while he ate popcorn in an air-conditioned booth. How does he plan to address that while he's physical separated from the team and doesn't communicate with players directly during the game?

 

He said he'll try to address it in practice then rely on his assistants and the players themselves. The 'hands off, hey I just call the plays' attitude is annoying to me because the defense has the talent but didn't perform.

[berad]

Ironic yes, but that doesn't make him wrong.

 

He's right, regardless of the air conditioning. There was NO energy at all on the field against Oakland.

 

And his plan to fix it?

 

When that happens, what do you as a coach do the following week to get them to play with energy? (Ryan Mink) “Sometimes we have to take the role of leaders, sometimes as coaches, and we have to do some things and just expedite the process a little bit and get them to play harder. Sometimes it’s changing a little bit of the scheme, but it’s not that. If it was changing the scheme, we wouldn’t have played well in the first game. It’s more about within the scheme. You can always let yourselves as coaches [ask], ‘Did we do too much? Did we do too little? Did we do this? Did we do that?’ We’re always critiquing ourselves on the calls and our scheme. But the bottom line is you just have to go out and … The old saying for years and years and years [has been], ‘You play like you practice,’ and sometimes, maybe, we didn’t practice as well last week as we should have.”

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Transcripts-Ravens-Media-Availability-924/dc95eed7-1fc0-416c-ba7f-ec52f343a64f

 

Yeesh.

[GrimCoconut]

Right, but again every year we keep having the same problems. It's easy to say oh, well there were injuries. But the job of the coordinator is to call plays that put their players in the best position to succeed. If he's not doing that, and he's not working on the players weaknesses then what is the benefit of keeping him here?

But he's called some absolutely excellent games against good competition. You can't simply discredit that. Yes, it's true that his defenses have consistently not tackled well nor forced many turnovers, but he's been far from horrible some fans make him out to be. Are there areas for improvement? Absolutely yes, without question. That doesn't make him bad.

I do somewhat agree regarding the superficial perception that he doesn't adjust to his players. In some ways I agree with this perception but I can't fully agree. He has adjusted although not consistently. We seem to do best when we're an attacking defense but he (likely) wants to avoid being one dimensional and always attacking because that can also leave you susceptible.

Sometimes injuries are a big deal. Losing Jimmy Smith was a big deal. Losing Suggs could very well also prove to be an issue.

[rmw10]

Pees threads are always fun.

[52520Andrew]

Yes, that's all true. I was pointing out the irony of bashing the 'energy and effort' of the unit while he ate popcorn in an air-conditioned booth. How does he plan to address that while he's physical separated from the team and doesn't communicate with players directly during the game?

 

He said he'll try to address it in practice then rely on his assistants and the players themselves. The 'hands off, hey I just call the plays' attitude is annoying to me because the defense has the talent but didn't perform.

 

Wait was he eating popcorn up there? If so I need to see this

[bMore Heathen]

But he's called some absolutely excellent games against good competition. You can't simply discredit that. Yes, it's true that his defenses have consistently not tackled well nor forced many turnovers, but he's been far from horrible some fans make him out to be. Are there areas for improvement? Absolutely yes, without question. That doesn't make him bad.

I do somewhat agree regarding the superficial perception that he doesn't adjust to his players. In some ways I agree with this perception but I can't fully agree. He has adjusted although not consistently. We seem to do best when we're an attacking defense but he (likely) wants to avoid being one dimensional and always attacking because that can also leave you susceptible.

Sometimes injuries are a big deal. Losing Jimmy Smith was a big deal. Losing Suggs could very well also prove to be an issue.

I'm not one of those people saying he needs to blitz x amount of times, or play press every single play. I'm saying if we're in a game and teams are driving on us, we don't do anything to change what we're doing. He is pretty good at half time adjustments, but not in game adjustments play to play. And his ability to teach his guys to be better football players.

He referenced how good we were in week 1, so it's obviously not the scheme. That's not what I saw when I watched that game. I saw a very old QB trying to run an offense he's not comfortable in who missed several wide open receivers. And a very poor o line which required very little pressure to get a pass rush. Peyton is not able to run kubes system because he can't play under center. He hasn't for about 5 years. Conversely Kubes running game can't operate out of shotgun. They figured this out in the KC game and they ended up looking like the old Broncos. It had very little to do with our defense.