The Dean Pees Thread (merged)

[BSHU_Miami]

Oh please. Defense has gotten all the love in the draft and FA with the only exception being this last draft. No excuses for being bottom feeders. Suggs is one person. Trestman, fresh into a new year and running someone else's system then having to use the likes of Schaub, Clausen and Mallet did better with MORE injuries. Practically ALL his starters out. Injuries are no excuse.

exactly.

[52520Andrew]

i hope so too, but the defense is 10th overall that isn't going to happen

24th in points allowed which is what everyone used to defend him last year oddly enough(myself included).

Not surprised to see him staying but we are going to have to load the offense up if we want to comptete.

[GrimCoconut]

24th in points allowed which is what everyone used to defend him last year oddly enough(myself included).

Not surprised to see him staying but we are going to have to load the offense up if we want to comptete.

Yeah, I find that interesting as well. People pointed to fewest points when it benefited the argument for Pees. Now they point to overall ranking despite our insufficient turnovers.

I'm not ignoring one for the other, but it is a funny coincidence. That said, those points don't include points the defense conceded but those a result of the offense and turnovers as well as I think a ST TD. It also doesn't include field position from those turnovers.

[Ravenseconbeast]

No, because continuity is a good thing, even when the coach is terrible.

Pees is confirmed to stay. Give him one last chance. Hate him or love him, he is here for 2016.

Chris Hewitt though, his not confirmed far as I know. He needs to GO. I love me some defense. But he is a horrible coach.

[ravensdfan]

Just leaving this here for when the excuses come out next season:

 

Posted February 5, 2015:

 

LOL

 

Then there aren't any good DCs nor any bad DCs. You don't get it both ways. You were one of the ones yelling for where is the praise for Pees anytime the defense actually managed to do something - but when it's bad it isn't his fault. Too funny really.

 

You guys are worse than any Flacco lover around. I didn't even say he was horrible. I said he was soft and that's his style, not Ravens' style. But you have to jump in to his defense.

Last year you blamed the offense - someone even in this thread - when it was pointed out time and tie and time again that TOP proves that argument FALSE. And when you give up 8 and 9 mins drives, it isn't the fault of the offense if you're tired.

This year it is injuries.

What will you hang you hat on this season?

When your team has multiple games where they force one or two punts the entire game, sorry, that isn't solid defense in any realm of football. And that happened last year so I guess it wasn't injuries.

 

The man is not a good DC like you want to make him out to be. Is he the worst option around? No, but he isn't above average either.

 

If the FO decided that mediocre is the plan defensively then stop giving the top draft picks to the defense where they're wasted on a guy with no creative game plans when things go south. Better give the offense the love cuz we're going to need that offense to win any games.

 

Just like they needed that high powered offense in NE when he was there.

 

Finding it ironic that everyone used pts scored against us to defend Pees when it made him look good and are now turning to overall defense LMBO!  The bolded still applies.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ravensdfan

[Cillmatic]

Pees is confirmed to stay. Give him one last chance. Hate him or love him, he is here for 2016.

Chris Hewitt though, his not confirmed far as I know. He needs to GO. I love me some defense. But he is a horrible coach.

Hewitt's confirmed.

[ravensdfan]

If you consider 25 in the league in points good than they did well.  I would consider top 15th or better good.  Look they did worse than defense.  The Defense didn't have many injuries but still the offense was worse.  Lets stop saying they were good when they were not.  Yardage doesn't mean much.  It is scoring.  

 

And the offense was bad before the injuries came.  In the beginning the only starter injured was Monroe.And Monroe played some.  I would say Suggs is a bigger loss than Monroe.  The team stunk this year.

 

Also you win games by scoring more than the opponent.  They didn't score much.  They had the ball just as  much as the other team.  

Well then, the defense was 24th in points given up. And while points scored (without their starting QB for half the season) might be 25th - they set a franchise record for yardage. What records did the defense set? Other than bad ones?

[ravensdfan]

Yeah, I find that interesting as well. People pointed to fewest points when it benefited the argument for Pees. Now they point to overall ranking despite our insufficient turnovers.

I'm not ignoring one for the other, but it is a funny coincidence. That said, those points don't include points the defense conceded but those a result of the offense and turnovers as well as I think a ST TD. It also doesn't include field position from those turnovers.

Fairly certain that points used for ranking defenses do NOT include any Pick 6's. Not sure about ST TDs but mostly defensive guys out there on ST too. So those points would be solely on the defense.

[ratedr]

Can't even be excited for next season knowing Pees is staying. When will the excuses for this guy stop?

[RavensFanMania]

And I said they improved, and even specifically that Jimmy & Webb improved but the caliber of offenses we faced factors into that as well.

Yes,  but they don't go from one of the worst to the best secondary just because of the caliber of offenses that were faced.  Jimmy's foot healing up, moving Webb to FS and Z'd Smith getting up to speed had a pretty big factor.

Edited January 7, 2016 by RavensFanMania

[ratedr]

Fairly certain that points used for ranking defenses do NOT include any Pick 6's. Not sure about ST TDs but mostly defensive guys out there on ST too. So those points would be solely on the defense.

Nah I'm pretty sure the PPG includes all scores.

Pees is still a garbage DC though.

[jazz1988]

Have we fired the DB coach? If not, why?

 

Considering that Harbaugh promoted Chris Hewitt to defensive back coach in 2015 it doesn't seem right to fire him after one year with the job.. The fact that Shareece Wright played so well after being one the worst cover corner in 2014 is impressive and it was Hewitt coaching him .

Edited January 7, 2016 by jazz1988

[arnie_uk]

If we gave another season like this, with the defense playing like it did early, 5 6 7 win year, harbs can leave with Pees next spring.

Hope it doesn't turn into a cam situation. Whatever they changed post bye week better be what they start with next season!

[Adreme]

Well then, the defense was 24th in points given up. And while points scored (without their starting QB for half the season) might be 25th - they set a franchise record for yardage. What records did the defense set? Other than bad ones?

 

Yes the defense was not as good as the 2000 era Ravens defenses which were stacked with pro bowlers and hall of famers in there prime in an era where being a hard hitting defense was allowed and encouraged.  That era is over.  Also the only even pro bowl level player on the Ravens defense this year was Jimmy Smith who didnt get back to pro bowl form until later in the year when shockingly they played much better.  

 

Suggs who was the lynch pin of that pass rush got knocked out for the year on the first game and without him the entire defensive scheme had to be adjusted and there were noticeably worse for it.  Hopefully with Suggs back and some good solid draft picks and the players who developed over the course of the year continue to develop the defense can once again be a top 10 defense (top 5 is the dream) and hopefully able to force more turnovers with a stronger pass rush.

[redrum52]

No one expected great but defense has been given all the love every season in the draft and FA. No excuse for bottom feeders.

 

Defense has not improved nor even maintained the same level of success since Pees came in. It has degraded in every area since 2012. That is the very definition of failure. And that SB you want to credit him for? His 4th quarter fail defensive philosophy nearly cost us that win .

Ok... I've tried avoiding real responses, but... 

 

1st - Wasn't the run d bad in 2012?  Isn't our run defense one of the best now?  Wouldn't that be... an improvement?

 

2nd - The defense was great in 2013 and was just hamstrung by an awful offense.  Had the offense even been remotely decent, we make playoffs that year.

 

3rd - The SB.  I always hear the defense get attention for "giving" up a lead.  The offense managed a whole 6 points in the 2nd half.  Great job and I'm sure the fact that the offense shut down, had nothing to do with the defense giving up points.  Why should that or Ngata doing down effect the defense, right?  Also, didn't they still get the stop, the same problem most complain about?

 

4th- Merry go round at CB last year didn't help.  Shouldn't have to explain anything there.

 

5th - Suggs went down and Jimmy was recovering, but regardless, I don't think the defense should've performed as poorly as they did, early on.

 

And everyone harping on the Bengals losses, look at the O's production.  How many games have they gone scoreless in the first half?  Couple that with turnovers and I don't know what you all expect.  The offense simply can't wait till late in a game to score and pull out wins.  There's a reason there are 60 minutes in a game and not just the last two.  You can't expect one side to do their job the whole game, then the other, to only have to work for a quarter.

 

One more thing.  If you complain about the defense not doing their job since Pees got here, then why not complain about Flacco not playing like he has, since the playoffs?  The defense has gotten better, minus this year, while he's been "shockingly" inconsistent, season to season.  He's the constant on offense, isn't he?

[52520Andrew]

Yeah, I find that interesting as well. People pointed to fewest points when it benefited the argument for Pees. Now they point to overall ranking despite our insufficient turnovers.

I'm not ignoring one for the other, but it is a funny coincidence. That said, those points don't include points the defense conceded but those a result of the offense and turnovers as well as I think a ST TD. It also doesn't include field position from those turnovers.

Yeah those help. Most teams give at least one special teams play though at some point and our special teams were a bright spot for us this year. Rosburg has done a great job with that group.

I am just tired of the defense going as soon as one thing goes wrong for them. I get that losing Suggs is big but our injuries on defense were nothing compared to what the offense went through and we were 25th in points scored, ranked right with the defense. It is pretty easy to look good as a coordinator when everything goes right. If that is the only time someone looks good, that is a problem to me.

[ravensdfan]

Ok... I've tried avoiding real responses, but... 

 

1st - Wasn't the run d bad in 2012?  Isn't our run defense one of the best now?  Wouldn't that be... an improvement? One of the best? 12th ranked giving up 103.8 yds a game is one of the best? Besides, Pees was the DC in 2012 - the metric would be improvement since 2011 - before he came in. Run D was ranked 2nd giving up 92 yds per game. So yep, not better.

 

2nd - The defense was great in 2013 and was just hamstrung by an awful offense.  Had the offense even been remotely decent, we make playoffs that year. What metric were they "great" at?

 

3rd - The SB.  I always hear the defense get attention for "giving" up a lead.  The offense managed a whole 6 points in the 2nd half.  Great job and I'm sure the fact that the offense shut down, had nothing to do with the defense giving up points.  Why should that or Ngata doing down effect the defense, right?  Also, didn't they still get the stop, the same problem most complain about? So again - the offense should have to score over 30 pts before the defense is ever held accountable? Holding a lead is the defenses job - especially a 3 score lead.

 

4th- Merry go round at CB last year didn't help.  Shouldn't have to explain anything there.

 

5th - Suggs went down and Jimmy was recovering, but regardless, I don't think the defense should've performed as poorly as they did, early on.

 

And everyone harping on the Bengals losses, look at the O's production.  How many games have they gone scoreless in the first half?  Couple that with turnovers and I don't know what you all expect.  The offense simply can't wait till late in a game to score and pull out wins.  There's a reason there are 60 minutes in a game and not just the last two.  You can't expect one side to do their job the whole game, then the other, to only have to work for a quarter.  But the defense can wait until the last 7 games to actually be a defense? And that's okay?

 

One more thing.  If you complain about the defense not doing their job since Pees got here, then why not complain about Flacco not playing like he has, since the playoffs?  The defense has gotten better, minus this year, while he's been "shockingly" inconsistent, season to season.  He's the constant on offense, isn't he? The defense has not gotten better. It's been inconsistent at best with that continuity buzzword that now everyone is bantering about. While the offense has had no continuity at all. Not in personnel outside of QB, not in OC.

Edited January 7, 2016 by ravensdfan

[Ravenseconbeast]

Hewitt's confirmed.

 

I don't believe you!!! NOOOOOOOOO

[Tank 92]

[ratedr]

The Steelers and Bengals (especially AJ Green) endorse these developments.

[ravensdfan]

The Steelers and Bengals (especially AJ Green) endorse these developments.

Right? Green & Brown must be very excited.Not to mention NE, who will never have to worry about us in the playoffs again.

[redrum52]

 

Ok... I've tried avoiding real responses, but... 

 

1st - Wasn't the run d bad in 2012?  Isn't our run defense one of the best now?  Wouldn't that be... an improvement? One of the best? 12th ranked giving up 103.8 yds a game is one of the best? Besides, Pees was the DC in 2012 - the metric would be improvement since 2011 - before he came in. Run D was ranked 2nd giving up 92 yds per game. So yep, not better.

 

2nd - The defense was great in 2013 and was just hamstrung by an awful offense.  Had the offense even been remotely decent, we make playoffs that year. What metric were they "great" at?

 

3rd - The SB.  I always hear the defense get attention for "giving" up a lead.  The offense managed a whole 6 points in the 2nd half.  Great job and I'm sure the fact that the offense shut down, had nothing to do with the defense giving up points.  Why should that or Ngata doing down effect the defense, right?  Also, didn't they still get the stop, the same problem most complain about? So again - the offense should have to score over 30 pts before the defense is ever held accountable? Holding a lead is the defenses job - especially a 3 score lead.

 

4th- Merry go round at CB last year didn't help.  Shouldn't have to explain anything there.

 

5th - Suggs went down and Jimmy was recovering, but regardless, I don't think the defense should've performed as poorly as they did, early on.

 

And everyone harping on the Bengals losses, look at the O's production.  How many games have they gone scoreless in the first half?  Couple that with turnovers and I don't know what you all expect.  The offense simply can't wait till late in a game to score and pull out wins.  There's a reason there are 60 minutes in a game and not just the last two.  You can't expect one side to do their job the whole game, then the other, to only have to work for a quarter.  But the defense can wait until the last 7 games to actually be a defense? And that's okay?

 

One more thing.  If you complain about the defense not doing their job since Pees got here, then why not complain about Flacco not playing like he has, since the playoffs?  The defense has gotten better, minus this year, while he's been "shockingly" inconsistent, season to season.  He's the constant on offense, isn't he? The defense has not gotten better. It's been inconsistent at best with that continuity buzzword that now everyone is bantering about. While the offense has had no continuity at all. Not in personnel outside of QB, not in OC.

 

Metrics are the only thing which you will judge a team or player by?  First mistake.  Also lost one of our best run stoppers in JJ.

 

The defense was good in 13 whether you'd like to admit it or not.

 

My point on the SB was both sides sucked after the blackout.

 

No, they shouldn't wait til the last 7 games, but I don't hear the Flacco fan club complaining about having to wait till the playoffs for him to get his mind right.

 

Good point.  Who have our  safeties been since 12?  How much continuity there?  Where have the biggest lapses come on defense?  You realize they usually make the calls and get the secondary in order, right?  You can't blame Pees, when our rush gets no pressure, the secondary falls giving up a td or just flat out blows a coverage.

 

I heard about Flacco's contusion in 09 when he was brown, water, trash in the 09 playoffs.  Same thing with his knee at the end of the 13 season.  Then Jimmy comes back from a lisfranc injury, in a position where you actually need to be mobile, people toss that away as a valid argument. 

 

 

Have any of you actually watched Shareece Wright before he got here?

Edited January 7, 2016 by redrum52

[Tank 92]

Doesn't the Ravens' offense and defense play for the same team?  Aren't they both good sometimes and also bad sometimes?  

 

All I can say is, damn.     lol

[redrum52]

Doesn't the Ravens' offense and defense play for the same team?  Aren't they both good sometimes and also bad sometimes?  

 

All I can say is, damn.     lol

Trust me, I'm not trying to make this about one side or the other.  Just why aren't both asked the same.  Ravensdfan says everything goes into the defense lately, but which one took the bigger hit after the SB?  It only made sense to put more into it.  Williams, Reed, Lewis, Kruger, Jones and Ellerbe all left, didn't they?  On offense we had Q, Leach and Birk, I think.  Also, if you look at the cap, guess which side most of the money is invested?

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

I think something will change if the defense cant finish games next year. I know they had a problem finishing this year. That's how things work give the guy a chance to fix things and if they do then great if they don't then its time for change. This team works very hard and does not quit so that's a good thing going forward. Lets see what Pees does next season.

[JO_75]

Alright back to back top 10 picks and once again losing by one possession because Pees can't call the right plays to keep the other offense from scoring in the fourth.

And I thought Indy was wasting away Luck even before he hits his prime by keeping Grigson was bad. Wasting away Flacco in his prime by keeping Pees is equally as bad.

Ozzie and Steve need to realize, if our DC doesn't have intetest from a team to be a head coach he's a bad defensive coordinator. Pees had had no interest from anyone and wasn't what we are seeing now the reason the Patriots let him go?

Guess this thread will be going strong for another year.

[Willbacker]

Bill Belichick loves continuity. Pees is the only coordinator I can think of that he let go. Everybody else became HCs somewhere else.

[allblackraven]

Alright back to back top 10 picks and once again losing by one possession because Pees can't call the right plays to keep the other offense from scoring in the fourth.

And I thought Indy was wasting away Luck even before he hits his prime by keeping Grigson was bad. Wasting away Flacco in his prime by keeping Pees is equally as bad.

Ozzie and Steve need to realize, if our DC doesn't have intetest from a team to be a head coach he's a bad defensive coordinator. Pees had had no interest from anyone and wasn't what we are seeing now the reason the Patriots let him go?

Guess this thread will be going strong for another year.

To be fair, Pees publicly said that he isn't interested in HC jobs.

[Moderator 3]

Bill Belichick loves continuity. Pees is the only coordinator I can think of that he let go. Everybody else became HCs somewhere else.

Also, to be fair, I believe Pees resigned.

[gtalk12]

Alright back to back top 10 picks and once again losing by one possession because Pees can't call the right plays to keep the other offense from scoring in the fourth.

And I thought Indy was wasting away Luck even before he hits his prime by keeping Grigson was bad. Wasting away Flacco in his prime by keeping Pees is equally as bad.

Ozzie and Steve need to realize, if our DC doesn't have intetest from a team to be a head coach he's a bad defensive coordinator. Pees had had no interest from anyone and wasn't what we are seeing now the reason the Patriots let him go?

Guess this thread will be going strong for another year.

 

 

Question, is it Pees fault Jimmy Smith isn't at 100%? What about Webb?

 

 

If you can't cover in this league how do you expect us to do anything exactly?

 

I don't really like Pees, but we won with him and he looked like a genious pre-blackout.

 

We just don't have many playmakers at this point. Asking you or any of us fans to have patience is tough, I get it