The Dean Pees Thread (merged)

[Ravens2343]

Harbaugh as the head coach should be able to call up to pees and tell him to play press man or tell trestman to run the ball. 

 

I think that is part of our success and our current problem.  Harbaugh lets his coaches do their thing and trusts them to make the right calls.  I think Harbaugh has input certainly, but if he starts stepping on the coordinators toes then that will probably create more problems and tension.  I for one thinks Pees should get more time to turn it around, but if he doesn't then a change should and probably will be made.  Harbaugh is not afraid to make a drastic change as we have seen before.  How great would it be if we could somehow get Pagano back here to coach our defense? Wishful thinking I know

[redrum52]

34 points is 34 points. Who cares who scored? The defense just had to keep them under that. They held on... but it was closer than anyone would have liked.

Their worst half of the post season came when their best run defender went down on an already weak line against one of the best rushing teams at the time. Offense turned the ball over and vanished for a half. All 3 phases disappointed that 2nd half. It's not like the defense didn't do their job to help get them the lead as well. 6 points is still JUST 6 points which is nothing to write home about. The same people here will laugh at Romo for not being "clutch." Romo has given his team tons of leads, late, only for his defense to lose them, but that's not what we'll hear. It will be Romo gave the game away, but if Flacco doesn't do it at the end, it's the defense gave up up a paltry 3 point lead with 10 minutes left in the 4th.

In 13 when the defense kept the scoring low, no seemed to care when they barely gave up points for 55 minutes. All people looked at was how the game ended, neglecting how well the other side performed, so why does it always seem to change on days where the offense puts up points, but not enough points? They had a chance to put up a td and failed. With that td, at worst we see OT.

[jazz1988]

the only way he would have been able to create pressure is to send more guys then they could block.

 

that means to send at least 6 leaving 5 in coverage.

 

our guys had trouble covering and making tackles, heck they had trouble staying on their feet.

 

you dont see how things could have gotten even worse?

 

even Jimmy had trouble 1 on 1 and he was the best we had lol.

he was beaten really really bad.

he was not even in the position to get a hand on cooper...

 

sending 6 would have left at least 3 guys in 1 on 1 match ups.

in zone would have been even worse with all the space they would had to cover.

 

PS i think the broncos are regretting leaving bailey alone in man cov and getting torched for 2 TD lol.

it was 1 of the reasons they lost that game...

starting the 2nd half he had a safety over the top lel.

 

What i'm saying is Pees did nothing creative to help his players get to the quarterback until what later on in the 4th quarter. If The Raiders offensive line is as good as you say they are and Pee know this then there's no excuse to not atleast try something different. You don't need blitz to get creative with adding pressure.

 

We have seen since 2013 our players having miscommunication issues in the secondary, trouble tackling, and etc. It seem like a constant issue  and i'm not excusing the players at all but eventually the defensive coordinator has to take blame...  Ozzie has made sure during the offseason that the secondary won't be as bad as last year with some addition and if somehow the team get's the same results this season then no way can the players constantly get the main focus for the issue.

 

Jimmy Smith got beat one time by a rookie but great cornerback can be beat. Richard Sherman whoms one of the best cornerbacks in the league got beat by Odell Beckham last year and he's a rookie to. Do you think  The Sea hawks defensive coordinator said oooh noo my best cornerback got beat let's go in extra cautious mode these wide receivers are too much to handle? I bet he didn't  and still allowed his best cornerback to play how he plays.

 

I'm sure The Broncos did regret leaving Bailey alone with Torrey Smith but how can you blame them for having trust in their shutdown corner back at the time. You can say that was a mistake but the fact still remains he was their shutdown cornerback and a team should have strong faith in their shutdown corner.

[BmoreBird22]

I'll just throw this out there for irony. But I don't think the rest of league are impressed with Pees either otherwise he would have been cherry picked to be a Head Coach like so many of the his predecessors lol. I mean Pagano got snatched up after 1 year lol.

What's funny about this thread, is that it was created after the Denver game when the defense was lights out lol. I mean that game actually felt like an old Colts vs Ravens game where I just felt that Peyton Manning would get that 1 signature touchdown to seal the game. It didn't play out the normal way but that was a great defensive performance, with blitzes, etc. I'm not sure what the OP wanted then, now had this been started after the Raider game well it would make a little more sense.

Pees has publicly stated that he has no desire to be a head coach and that he'll leave it to those who want to be one, so....

[BmoreBird22]

I hate the argument that if Pees is such a good defensive coordinator, why isn't he a head coach? That's such a terrible argument.

1. Not every good coordinator makes a great head coach. Kubiak was downright dreadful in Houston for most of his time there and we're seeing with Fox in Chicago that the Peyton Manning effect is real. Wade Phillips was fantastic as A DC for Houston and for Denver, but he was out of a job as a head coach for Dallas. Chuck Pagano looks like he's about to get fired. See where I'm going with this?

2. He has no desire to be a head coach, especially at his age. Who wants a head coach over the age of 60 that has never been a head coach at the professional level? No team.

Just... the hate and bias is unreal

[redrum52]

I hate the argument that if Pees is such a good defensive coordinator, why isn't he a head coach? That's such a terrible argument.

1. Not every good coordinator makes a great head coach. Kubiak was downright dreadful in Houston for most of his time there and we're seeing with Fox in Chicago that the Peyton Manning effect is real. Wade Phillips was fantastic as A DC for Houston and for Denver, but he was out of a job as a head coach for Dallas. Chuck Pagano looks like he's about to get fired. See where I'm going with this?

2. He has no desire to be a head coach, especially at his age. Who wants a head coach over the age of 60 that has never been a head coach at the professional level? No team.

Just... the hate and bias is unreal

No! If he was good he'd be a HC! Blah blah blah defense blah blah last minute td.. blah blah Flacco's carrying this team. Fire Pees, soft zone, 3 man rush blah...

Serious question. Are there any stats on how many times he actually blitzed last game?

[AsianRice]

No! If he was good he'd be a HC! Blah blah blah defense blah blah last minute td.. blah blah Flacco's carrying this team. Fire Pees, soft zone, 3 man rush blah...

Serious question. Are there any stats on how many times he actually blitzed last game?

Dick LeBeau? He must be a bad DC and that's why noone wants him to be a HC...../roll eyes...

[gtalk12]

Rex was an amazing D-cord.....but as a head coach? aside from the first couple years of his tenure with the Jets everything has been going south. would have been nice to keep him here

[gtalk12]

Dick LeBeau? He must be a bad DC and that's why noone wants him to be a HC...../roll eyes...

 

That arguement about why cords aren't HC if they are so good is horrible

[redrum52]

Dick LeBeau? He must be a bad DC and that's why noone wants him to be a HC...../roll eyes...

There was much sarcasm in my post... hard to tell here sometimes though

[AsianRice]

Rex was an amazing D-cord.....but as a head coach? aside from the first couple years of his tenure with the Jets everything has been going south. would have been nice to keep him here

only if he slides his ego aside, he will be the best DC for the Ravens; I just can't see him under Harbs after we took Harbs over him as a HC.....yes, too bad......

[gtalk12]

only if he slides his ego aside, he will be the best DC for the Ravens; I just can't see him under Harbs after we took Harbs over him as a HC.....yes, too bad......

 

that would be something else......by the way, I noticed CJ got to the QB nicely against the Broncos. He had 2 sacks. May need to

 

send him more since Suggs is going to be out

[ravensdfan]

The offense scored 27 points that game. Jacoby had a return. ST, off and Def fell apart after the blackout that game. The off only out up 2 fgs throughout the 2nd half.

Point still stands that 34 pts was apparently not enough just like this week 33 pts was not enough. One can only conclude that the concensus is the team must put up 40 pts or better for Pees to be expected to get a win.

[bMore Heathen]

Dick LeBeau? He must be a bad DC and that's why noone wants him to be a HC...../roll eyes...

Not validating the argument, but Lebeau was a head coach, and a terrible one at that. After he was fired, he went back it Pittsburg as the DC.

Edited September 22, 2015 by bMore Heathen

[redrum52]

Point still stands that 34 pts was apparently not enough just like this week 33 pts was not enough. One can only conclude that the concensus is the team must put up 40 pts or better for Pees to be expected to get a win.

I can pick 2 random games as well display the offenses ineptitude. Bronco's were held to 12 offensive points. Hell, the defense out up more points than the offense. In 13 the d allowed 16 to the the Bears, another pick 6 game. We should get rid of everyone on the offense then as well? The only consistency with our offense since the SB is the inconsistency, and you know the only real constant, right?

So what should the defense have to do? Hold opposing teams to 10?

Edited September 22, 2015 by redrum52

[JEEPercreepermd]

I can pick 2 random games as well display the offenses ineptitude. Bronco's were held to 12 offensive points. Hell, the defense out up more points than the offense. In 13 the d allowed 16 to the the Bears, another pick 6 game. We should get rid of everyone on the offense then as well? The only consistency with our offense since the SB is the inconsistency, and you know the only real constant, right?

So what should the defense have to do? Hold opposing teams to 10?

I don't understand what people don't get. Either you are bashing the offense for A B C, or bashing the defense for X Y Z. They go hand in hand a lot of times. Both need to improve. Period.

[ravensdfan]

I can pick 2 random games as well display the offenses ineptitude. Bronco's were held to 12 offensive points. Hell, the defense out up more points than the offense. In 13 the d allowed 16 to the the Bears, another pick 6 game. We should get rid of everyone on the offense then as well? The only consistency with our offense since the SB is the inconsistency, and you know the only real constant, right?

So what should the defense have to do? Hold opposing teams to 10?

They should not give up 37 pts to the Raiders. They should not only force 2 punts (or 1 like a certain Steelers' game where everyone blamed the offense). They should get off the field. Which is their job. And when they do not - when it is beyond obvious that Pees called a very conservative game and made zero adjustments - criticism is valid. 

 

Nothing has been consistent with our offense. 4 OCs in 4 years. A QB coach thrown in. Several different receiving groups.

 

But, the defense has been consistent for the most part haven't they? Aside from last year when your excuse was the turnover and all the different cogs due to injuries. That happens to the offense every single year. Not due to injuries but new pieces everywhere. And they have also been consistent with the inability to get off the field, hold in the last 2 mins. and they make back-up QBs look like Kings.

[redrum52]

They should not give up 37 pts to the Raiders. They should not only force 2 punts (or 1 like a certain Steelers' game where everyone blamed the offense). They should get off the field. Which is their job. And when they do not - when it is beyond obvious that Pees called a very conservative game and made zero adjustments - criticism is valid.

Nothing has been consistent with our offense. 4 OCs in 4 years. A QB coach thrown in. Several different receiving groups.

But, the defense has been consistent for the most part haven't they? Aside from last year when your excuse was the turnover and all the different cogs due to injuries. That happens to the offense every single year. Not due to injuries but new pieces everywhere. And they have also been consistent with the inability to get off the field, hold in the last 2 mins. and they make back-up QBs look like Kings.

I'm going to put this to rest. I honestly agree with a lot of what you about the offense. I just think your views are skewed on the defense. I'm tired of the back and forth. I just think you're biased which is most of the reason I've even kept this going. You can't blame a coach for players getting burned or just messing up which I think happened on 2 or 3 tds. You say changes make a difference, but the truth is, the secondary has never played together in any of Pees seasons and that's where we always see miscommunication.

[redrum52]

I don't understand what people don't get. Either you are bashing the offense for A B C, or bashing the defense for X Y Z. They go hand in hand a lot of times. Both need to improve. Period.

Agree with this.

[MrPlankton]

I think a recurring issue with the offense is that the Ravens don't have that nucleus of young, talented players that surround the QB. I'm not saying that every player position on the offense absolutely needs these kinds of players, but the wide receiving corps should have one or two play-makers to develop alongside the QB. Youth alone doesn't cut it. 

 

I believe the FO has put this off for far too long, and while I'm happy they at least made an attempt to (hopefully) right the issue with Breshad Perriman, this should have been done a while ago. 

 

On the other hand, I think the defense already has (or is close to having) such a nucleus, mainly in CJ Mosley, Jimmy Smith, Brandon Williams. I'm not entirely sold on Jernigan yet.   

Edited September 22, 2015 by MrPlankton

[ravensdfan]

I'm going to put this to rest. I honestly agree with a lot of what you about the offense. I just think your views are skewed on the defense. I'm tired of the back and forth. I just think you're biased which is most of the reason I've even kept this going. You can't blame a coach for players getting burned or just messing up which I think happened on 2 or 3 tds. You say changes make a difference, but the truth is, the secondary has never played together in any of Pees seasons and that's where we always see miscommunication.

It isn't that they have issues - it is always the same issues, year after year. At some point that falls on the coaching.

 

I was very glad to eat my words last week. A much more aggressive game plan, delayed blitzes, some imaginative blitz packages. None of which we saw this week. What no one can answer is why? Why did we not see them? One player should not make that big a difference. It should not freeze you in your tracks that you do absolutely nothing. That is on the DC. And it is a problem.

 

The offense has its own issues. They get a slight pass only because I think Trestman is still feeling his way right now. There is still no excuse for the debacle that was Denver though.

 

The offense went forward but the defense went backward. It is concerning. Now we need them both to play almost perfect ball to salvage the season. There is little room left for any error.

[BmoreBird22]

No! If he was good he'd be a HC! Blah blah blah defense blah blah last minute td.. blah blah Flacco's carrying this team. Fire Pees, soft zone, 3 man rush blah...

Serious question. Are there any stats on how many times he actually blitzed last game?

Yes, but you have to have a PFF subscription

[jazz1988]

I'm going to put this to rest. I honestly agree with a lot of what you about the offense. I just think your views are skewed on the defense. I'm tired of the back and forth. I just think you're biased which is most of the reason I've even kept this going. You can't blame a coach for players getting burned or just messing up which I think happened on 2 or 3 tds. You say changes make a difference, but the truth is, the secondary has never played together in any of Pees seasons and that's where we always see miscommunication.

 

That's a true but also in 2013 our secondary had miscommunications as well and the only person that was actually new in the secondary was Matt Elam.

[redrum52]

Yes, but you have to have a PFF subscription

Should've been more clear. Can someone with PFF give us the blitz numbers for week 1 and 2 a well as the league average?

[BSHU_Miami]

I really want to see brooks on the field. If Lewis continues to struggle, we should see what we have, but that's down the line. I think the main problem with pees is that he has our guys think to much rather than play. That's not good for a young defense, I wish he can just let these people play.

[Militant X 1]

They should not give up 37 pts to the Raiders. They should not only force 2 punts (or 1 like a certain Steelers' game where everyone blamed the offense). They should get off the field. Which is their job. And when they do not - when it is beyond obvious that Pees called a very conservative game and made zero adjustments - criticism is valid. 

 

Nothing has been consistent with our offense. 4 OCs in 4 years. A QB coach thrown in. Several different receiving groups.

 

But, the defense has been consistent for the most part haven't they? Aside from last year when your excuse was the turnover and all the different cogs due to injuries. That happens to the offense every single year. Not due to injuries but new pieces everywhere. And they have also been consistent with the inability to get off the field, hold in the last 2 mins. and they make back-up QBs look like Kings.

 

What about the offenses inability to move the chains and put up 7 pts instead of 3 pts in the red zone?  Isn't that their job?  And isn't that criticism of the offense also valid...changing pieces and all when they don't do it?  Or, are you someone that is just in favor of the offense over the defense no matter how poorly they play?

[ravensdfan]

What about the offenses inability to move the chains and put up 7 pts instead of 3 pts in the red zone?  Isn't that their job?  And isn't that criticism of the offense also valid...changing pieces and all when they don't do it?  Or, are you someone that is just in favor of the offense over the defense no matter how poorly they play?

I am a big fan of defense. Real defense. Not what we currently play which is why I am so hard on them.

 

Yep criticism of the offense is valid when they fail to do their job the entire game - like week one. Criticism of the offense is in no short supply around here though. And not one solitary soul defended that offensive performance in week one. And not one solitary soul criticized the defense for anything.

 

You can't say the offense did not do their job when they put up over 30 pts and have the numbers they had. That is a positive offensive output for the entire universe except here in this forum. The defense failed completely, just as the offense did week one. Yet, here they are trying to defend them. That is the difference.

 

And not only do they defend them - it is "well if only the offense did this". The common theme is always the offense is to play out of their minds to make up for defensive failures and if they don't, then it is their fault or they are at least partly to blame - even when they did their job. A common thing we heard in 2013 when the defense failed to hold in the 4th - "well they were the only reason we were in that game to begin with". That is true of the Raiders' game as well regarding the offense.

Edited September 23, 2015 by ravensdfan

[redrum52]

I am a big fan of defense. Real defense. Not what we currently play which is why I am so hard on them.

Yep criticism of the offense is valid when they fail to do their job the entire game - like week one. Criticism of the offense is in no short supply around here though. And not one solitary soul defended that offensive performance in week one. And not one solitary soul criticized the defense for anything.

You can't say the offense did not do their job when they put up over 30 pts and have the numbers they had. That is a positive offensive output for the entire universe except here in this forum. The defense failed completely, just as the offense did week one. Yet, here they are trying to defend them. That is the difference.

I said the offense sucked, buy also said Trestman can't be judged, due to the o line play. Called Flacco out on the pick 6, but also said I thought he played well, all things considered. An awful performance, when not only the defense scores more than you, but you give away more points than you score. You do favor the offense. It's not that hard to see. You don't hold them as accountable as you do the defense

[Militant X 1]

I am a big fan of defense. Real defense. Not what we currently play which is why I am so hard on them.

 

Yep criticism of the offense is valid when they fail to do their job the entire game - like week one. Criticism of the offense is in no short supply around here though. And not one solitary soul defended that offensive performance in week one. And not one solitary soul criticized the defense for anything.

 

You can't say the offense did not do their job when they put up over 30 pts and have the numbers they had. That is a positive offensive output for the entire universe except here in this forum. The defense failed completely, just as the offense did week one. Yet, here they are trying to defend them. That is the difference.

 

And not only do they defend them - it is "well if only the offense did this". The common theme is always the offense is to play out of their minds to make up for defensive failures and if they don't, then it is their fault or they are at least partly to blame - even when they did their job. A common thing we heard in 2013 when the defense failed to hold in the 4th - "well they were the only reason we were in that game to begin with". That is true of the Raiders' game as well regarding the offense.

 

To me, no one in their right mind that saw both games can "defend" the Ravens offense versus the Broncos or "defend" the Ravens defense versus the Raiders.  We're 2 games in and BOTH sides of the ball have stunk up the joint!  I for one am more partial to the defensive side of the ball.  So, to say that I was pissed off by the lack of offense vs the Broncos is an understatement.  While at the same time; I was as equally pissed off by the lack of defense vs the Raiders!  That's called balance!  I can praise the offense and defense when they play well and equally smoke'em when they exhibit piss poor gameplay.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Looking back,we messed up paying Webb over Cary Williams. In fact, If Cary was still here, Pees would have him playing 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and short too......unlike Seattle who kept him maybe 4 yds off ball