The Dean Pees Thread (merged)

[OldToby]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not a big fan of off man coverage, but it obviously does have its use. I just don't want to see it as much as we have. I personally prefer press bail, but that's just me. I could be biased. I'll admit that.

"Off man coverage" looks considerably more useful with a competent pass rush.

Edited October 23, 2015 by OldToby

[BmoreBird22]

yeah its basically just a disguise where you show 1 technique but end up playing another.

 

its no different then  showing like your blitzing and then dropping in coverage or lining up like you are in coverage and then blitz.

It's the Seahawks favorite weapon which is now not so secret or difficult to figure out.

[Static]

I can't stand the talent excuse For Dean Peas.

The offense has a new coordinater , injuries and less total and by far a better unit.

[PurpleCity5]

I can't stand the talent excuse For Dean Peas.

The offense has a new coordinater , injuries and less total and by far a better unit.

I'm not feeling the talent excuse with the secondary either. I feel that Jimmy, Webb and Hill as a unit shouldn't rank 27th. Webb is having a bounce back season thought injuries has delayed that process for now and Jimmy while hasn't been the same, still hasn't given up a TD in the past three games. Right now he's just not playing like the Jimmy Smith we've gotten used to seeing. He's playing above average, but that's not what we were expecting. 

 

The offense has been doing well but that doesn't mean they don't have their own problems. I think the Offense needs to start faster and stay on the field. I you start slow and don't control the time of possession, then it will be tough to win games. I feel that the offense should at least partly be held accountable for what has happened. Don't get me wrong, I'm putting the 1-5 record mostly on the defense, but I feel like the offense still contributes to our struggles. 

 

I do believe Pees has done nearly all that he can and doesn't have hold of the players right now, that's my reasoning for wanting him out. Maybe canning him will ignite the fire the guys left in Denver, that's what I imagine at least. 

[DomMcRaven]

I'm still believe that Dean Pees won't be gone until the season ends. Now, IMO, that could change if we're giving up 500+ yards EVERY game from the ARZ game forward. 

[The Raven]

A healthy Jimmy will be a wonderful experience for this defense.

 

Honestly, I don't even think Pees cares if his players play press or off man. I think Pees just wants his players to play comfortably to their strengths. I know he was extremely happy with Jimmy last year and he played almost exclusively in press man. 

 

And I don't even think it's unreasonable to assume that a four man rush with this front seven, when healthy, will generate pressure. Suggs-Davis-Jernigan-Dumervil on paper just looks dirty, but losing Suggs obviously did a number and shifts a lot of attention around. 

The disappointing thing with Webb is he was actually having a solid season. That guy just cannot stay healthy for the life of him. That contract wouldn't be so bad if he weren't an injury magnet.

 

Oh, and don't worry about the above comment. Remember, common sense isn't so common.

 

I never do

[BmoreBird22]

I never do

Pees criticism is totally warranted, but many people are missing the mark on what to criticize him for.

[The Raven]

Pees criticism is totally warranted, but many people are missing the mark on what to criticize him for.

 

Yeah. I think I'm alone in criticizing his defensive line philosophy. That's what I hate more than anything. We don't have the players for a two-gap 3-4, but that's what he runs. We have a fairly athletic defensive line. Brandon Williams has the size to two gap, but he's best when he's just blowing up a gap. We have athletic, penetrating linemen and he won't let them do that.

 

The two-gap 3-4 is archaic and ineffective.

 

I don't mind his coverage. Whether or not he gives guys a choice in their coverage, I don't know, but I don't think the coverage calls are the problem. Better situational calls could help.

Edited October 24, 2015 by The Raven

[BmoreBird22]

Yeah. I think I'm alone in criticizing his defensive line philosophy. That's what I hate more than anything. We don't have the players for a two-gap 3-4, but that's what he runs. We have a fairly athletic defensive line. Brandon Williams has the size to two gap, but he's best when he's just blowing up a gap. We have athletic, penetrating linemen and he won't let them do that.

 

The two-gap 3-4 is archaic and ineffective.

 

I don't mind his coverage. Whether or not he gives guys a choice in their coverage, I don't know, but I don't think the coverage calls are the problem. Better situational calls could help.

I'm more of a fan of the one gap and I'm sure Jernigan would be as well. I think he has a tendency to freelance more than he does to stay disciplined in his gaps. And Williams is just a wrecking ball. Especially with Suggs gone, I'd rather see a one gap to create more pressure.

Pees definitely gives his players free reign. There'd be way too much going into telling each player how to align. Jimmy should be the biggest person to show this given how he was aligned last year compared to this year. He's just not healthy enough to press as frequently as I'm sure he'd like

[Tru11]

Pees criticism is totally warranted, but many people are missing the mark on what to criticize him for.

 

agree with this.

[GrimCoconut]

I'm more of a fan of the one gap and I'm sure Jernigan would be as well. I think he has a tendency to freelance more than he does to stay disciplined in his gaps. And Williams is just a wrecking ball. Especially with Suggs gone, I'd rather see a one gap to create more pressure.

Pees definitely gives his players free reign. There'd be way too much going into telling each player how to align. Jimmy should be the biggest person to show this given how he was aligned last year compared to this year. He's just not healthy enough to press as frequently as I'm sure he'd like

If you believe Rob Long, apparently Jimmy Smith himself told him he doesn't like to press all the time.

[PurpleCity5]

Pees criticism is totally warranted, but many people are missing the mark on what to criticize him for.

I can def. agree with this as well.

[BmoreBird22]

If you believe Rob Long, apparently Jimmy Smith himself told him he doesn't like to press all the time.

Doesn't create as many turnovers and he, before this year, was just as effective in off as in press.

[ravensdfan]

A healthy Jimmy will be a wonderful experience for this defense.

 

Honestly, I don't even think Pees cares if his players play press or off man. I think Pees just wants his players to play comfortably to their strengths. I know he was extremely happy with Jimmy last year and he played almost exclusively in press man. 

 

And I don't even think it's unreasonable to assume that a four man rush with this front seven, when healthy, will generate pressure. Suggs-Davis-Jernigan-Dumervil on paper just looks dirty, but losing Suggs obviously did a number and shifts a lot of attention around. 

The disappointing thing with Webb is he was actually having a solid season. That guy just cannot stay healthy for the life of him. That contract wouldn't be so bad if he weren't an injury magnet.

 

Oh, and don't worry about the above comment. Remember, common sense isn't so common.

I agree! Shame you guys lack it!

[PurpleCity5]

Doesn't create as many turnovers and he, before this year, was just as effective in off as in press.

I feel that we aren't that far off from getting the old Jimmy back. He's been solid but just not the guy we've gotten used to seeing. I think he'll return to form soon. Coming back from a Lisfranc foot injury is no joke, Ricky Wagner had the same injury and he struggled as well, I don't see it as a coincidence. I think once Jimmy gets better, our pass defense will as well.  

[PurpleCity5]

I'm still believe that Dean Pees won't be gone until the season ends. Now, IMO, that could change if we're giving up 500+ yards EVERY game from the ARZ game forward. 

I don't see that as the case. I think the Ravens and Pees just part ways. I think Pees has done all that he feels he can do and nothing he's done has worked up to this point. I think the Ravens might feel that the scheme and philosophy of the defense just doesn't work, not that it holds our players back but it doesn't work. That's really it, its not about "Oh the Scheme sucks and so does Pees." It's the fact that nothing that he does or what the scheme does for the players work.

[Deflated Football]

I wonder how the defense would look this season if we had a Sherman or a Revis. If I recall correctly, didn't Revis say that the Ravens contacted him in the offseason? Man, every time I watch these guys, specifically Sherman, he abuses the WR at the LOS and stays on his hip throughout the entire route using his hands to deter the WR. I wish once Jimmy recovers from his injury that he can be this kind of DB because he's shown flashes of being incredible in press. Our defense is banged up and we desperately need some attitude and physicality on that side of the ball. Ozzie has some work to do with this pass rush and lack of healthy DB's. VH3 anyone? Doubt Pees is back next year, so the new DC would be salivating with the talent we have on defense. The players just need to be in a position to succeed. 

[Tru11]

I feel that we aren't that far off from getting the old Jimmy back. He's been solid but just not the guy we've gotten used to seeing. I think he'll return to form soon. Coming back from a Lisfranc foot injury is no joke, Ricky Wagner had the same injury and he struggled as well, I don't see it as a coincidence. I think once Jimmy gets better, our pass defense will as well.  

 

once he gets better it opens up the book more cause it will be easier to leave him on an island.

 

means you can roll coverage more to others.

 

i think if he and webb get back to form we would improve alot.

 

webb was playing pretty good this from what i saw, just that dammm injury bug again.

[GrimCoconut]

once he gets better it opens up the book more cause it will be easier to leave him on an island.

means you can roll coverage more to others.

i think if he and webb get back to form we would improve alot.

webb was playing pretty good this from what i saw, just that dammm injury bug again.

I hate to say this but I want Webb gone next year. I've washed my hands of him. I want him gone more than Pees and I don't want him here anymore either. It's not realistic to cut him now, but I said it recently that I think his consistent unreliability may be a major reason for our communication struggles.

I do agree that Webb has started to look good, but you can't rely on this guy to play. He's probably made of toilet tissue.

Edited October 24, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[flynismo]

"Agenda against Dean Pees"? Ugh. Conversations die when you throw that hat in the ring. Any dissention of the sacred scheme is seen as blasphemous.

Dean Pees might be so nice that he makes Mr. Rogers look like a jerk, doesn't make any difference to me. It sure doesn't make any difference that his defenses have been inconsistent, underperforming, and have a tendancy to falter in big moments since he arrived.

I'd love nothing more than a Dean Pees-led defense to go on the field, play with aggression, confuse opposing offenses, and hold onto a lead but it has not happened to the standard we have.

Blaming the players is cool and all until you're up there every single week doing it. And the reporters ask what you will do to correct those issues and the only answer is 'coach better'... and then repeat next week.

Right on, berad.

To note, this embarrassment we call a defense does not fall solely on coaching or players. To be this bad, EVERYTHING is going wrong.

We lack talent, which limits what Pees can do.

Calm down, pro-Pees crowd, because even when he did have talent to work with, his defenses never played anywhere near their potential.

Pees needs to take a hike, and we need a serious reload on defense

[darklight1216]

Right on, berad.

To note, this embarrassment we call a defense does not fall solely on coaching or players. To be this bad, EVERYTHING is going wrong.

We lack talent, which limits what Pees can do.

Calm down, pro-Pees crowd, because even when he did have talent to work with, his defenses never played anywhere near their potential.

Pees needs to take a hike, and we need a serious reload on defense

I think it's going to happen. If the season continues the downward spiral, someone is going looking for a new job on Black Monday (or sooner). Harbs is a SB winning head coach who is having just his first losing season so he's safe. Trestman will probably be forgiven simply for being new (plus the utter lack of talent) and especially if he continues to somehow find a way to design more 30 point games.

 

I doubt anyone is going to pin the blame on the ST coordinator and I also can't see Ozzie being fired over this so I really think that Pees won't be here next season.  

[PurpleCity5]

I hate to say this but I want Webb gone next year. I've washed my hands of him. I want him gone more than Pees and I don't want him here anymore either. It's not realistic to cut him now, but I said it recently that I think his consistent unreliability may be a major reason for our communication struggles.

I do agree that Webb has started to look good, but you can't rely on this guy to play. He's probably made of toilet tissue.

I think Webb is solid overall, but lately hes been unreliable. I don't want us to cut him unless we have a plan at CB. If we sign a guy then yeah, I think you cut Webb but if not then our CB group is only going to get worse by straight up cutting him. Edited October 25, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[GrimCoconut]

I think Webb is solid overall, but lately hes been unreliable. I don't want us to cut him unless we have a plan at CB. If we sign a guy then yeah, I think you cut Webb but if not then our CB group is only going to get worse by straight up cutting him.

I honestly thought the same way you did for a while, but what changed my mind is this: what the Hell does it matter if you cut or keep Webb? He simply has consistently proven that he can't stay on the field. You think that doesn't hurt the team? We're tying up a roster spot and money into him and counting on him. The problem with us counting on him is he never comes through. He's completely unreliable.

I'd be all for keeping him but I think it's time for him to go.

[PurpleCity5]

I honestly thought the same way you did for a while, but what changed my mind is this: what the Hell does it matter if you cut or keep Webb? He simply has consistently proven that he can't stay on the field. You think that doesn't hurt the team? We're tying up a roster spot and money into him and counting on him. The problem with us counting on him is he never comes through. He's completely unreliable.

I'd be all for keeping him but I think it's time for him to go.

Yeah I understand what you mean, but I think the cap savings will be okay at about $3M. Im all for signing a CB to be honest and Move on from Webb. I think Webb is solid but staying on the field is an issue for him. I just don't see anyone else that we have who can be a quality starter outside of Webb, thats why I don't want to cut him but you certainly have a point.

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah I understand what you mean, but I think the cap savings will be okay at about $3M. Im all for signing a CB to be honest and Move on from Webb. I think Webb is solid but staying on the field is an issue for him. I just don't see anyone else that we have who can be a quality starter outside of Webb, thats why I don't want to cut him but you certainly have a point.

For me it's beyond his skill. It hurts me to even say we should cut him because I loved Webb since he saw the field as a rookie but he's just not reliable. I've been really patient with him, too, and I know the Ravens have clearly showered him with patience. He just never sees the field. I'm not sure how he helps the team for only six games a year. I'd be cool with keeping him if he saw the field and just wasn't that good. The problem is we don't even get that.

I'd rather give his roster spot to Davis, who's also got an injury history but he's cheaper.

[PurpleCity5]

For me it's beyond his skill. It hurts me to even say we should cut him because I loved Webb since he saw the field as a rookie but he's just not reliable. I've been really patient with him, too, and I know the Ravens have clearly showered him with patience. He just never sees the field. I'm not sure how he helps the team for only six games a year. I'd be cool with keeping him if he saw the field and just wasn't that good. The problem is we don't even get that.

I'd rather give his roster spot to Davis, who's also got an injury history but he's cheaper.

Yeah, I mean at the very least there is one year on his deal left but I'll contend with signing a CB rather then keeping Webb, I know we don't spend money on FA CBs but Im with you when speaking of Webbs duribility. A few days ago I thought that he didn't really have those injury problems, but at this point it looks to be another year filled with injuries for Webb.

I love what I saw from Will Davis, but I have my questions about him, Id like to sign a CB as a contengency plan but if we do rely on Davis to replace Webb, then I would be fine with that given how much we've invested at CB opposite to other positions.

[flynismo]

For me it's beyond his skill. It hurts me to even say we should cut him because I loved Webb since he saw the field as a rookie but he's just not reliable. I've been really patient with him, too, and I know the Ravens have clearly showered him with patience. He just never sees the field. I'm not sure how he helps the team for only six games a year. I'd be cool with keeping him if he saw the field and just wasn't that good. The problem is we don't even get that.

I'd rather give his roster spot to Davis, who's also got an injury history but he's cheaper.

I'm with you on that. Just like Torrey, Webb is not someone I WANT to lose, but at the end of the day, it is for the best.

[redrum52]

Right on, berad.

To note, this embarrassment we call a defense does not fall solely on coaching or players. To be this bad, EVERYTHING is going wrong.

We lack talent, which limits what Pees can do.

Calm down, pro-Pees crowd, because even when he did have talent to work with, his defenses never played anywhere near their potential.

Pees needs to take a hike, and we need a serious reload on defense

The year we did have talent the offense sucked and disn't do anything to help them.

Most will agree with what you're saying, but when people are here complaining about his lack of blitzing, when's he's constantly sending pressure, it makes no sense. There's no problem with being critical, if actually have a valid point.

[Tru11]

I hate to say this but I want Webb gone next year. I've washed my hands of him. I want him gone more than Pees and I don't want him here anymore either. It's not realistic to cut him now, but I said it recently that I think his consistent unreliability may be a major reason for our communication struggles.

I do agree that Webb has started to look good, but you can't rely on this guy to play. He's probably made of toilet tissue.

 

Meh.

 

unless we find a better or at least equal caliber player i prefer having him around.

will just depend on his cap number and if he is willing to restructure or take another cut.

 

the drop off from webb to who we have is pretty huge.

 

and yes part of the communications issues is certainly having to use are different line up pretty much every game.

[ravensdfan]

The year we did have talent the offense sucked and disn't do anything to help them.

Most will agree with what you're saying, but when people are here complaining about his lack of blitzing, when's he's constantly sending pressure, it makes no sense. There's no problem with being critical, if actually have a valid point.

Wait. Isn't that the year the offense was decimated with injuries? The year we brought in old and slow Dallas Clark and Stokley? And our other TE was dropsie Dickson? The year Torrey was our only real target? The year Castillo came in and complicated the O line and they were horrible? See, this is what I mean by your double standard. Every excuse for the defense even so far as blaming the offense the "one year he had talent" when the offense had your #1 Pees excuse of injuries.

 

You really need to read and stop twisting what people are complaining about just because one person said about blitzing and he's suddenly done it a couple games.

 

The complaint is not about a lack of blitzing. Complaints are about timing of blitzes (sending 3 on 3rd and long, constantly) and a lack of creativity. Four yr olds the world over can see a Pees blitz coming. The opposing team just adjusts.

 

The complaint is not so much a lack of man coverage (he's been using off man) it is a lack of press man. And no one that I've seen has said "we need to blitz every down" or "we need to play press every down!" the way you guys like to twist it around and claim. Right now, you're correct in the lack of personnel needed to play press, but that hasn't always been the case.

 

Furthermore none of that, and not one of you Pees defenders, has addressed the 4th quarter melt down trend (54% of our losses when we held the lead or tied) that has existed just since Pees took over. The players have changed, the position coaches have changed, but that glaring statistic remains. He owns that.