The Dean Pees Thread (merged)

[flynismo]

Refer to the last post I made because there is a chance I'm just missing what you were saying, but what I'm getting at is exactly what you're saying here- the positional coaches can have a large impact on the offense.

I'm not sure where you stand on Pees (I want him gone, but not for the reasons everyone says), but some of the positional coaches (Hewitt) aren't exactly doing him any favors.

Sounds like we are on the same page; those are exactly my thoughts. I don't know if I would single out Hewitt just yet, but he is absolutely on my "watch list".

[arnie_uk]

Just to comment on the scheme. The td pass on a swing pass to a wide open running back possibly in the 4th qtr, all the defenders were looking at each other pre snap waving arms in the air.

Either the play didn't come down from upstairs in time or almost half the defense didn't know what they were supposed to do. I was at the game and you knew it was trouble before they even snapped the ball.

[K-Dog]

Just to comment on the scheme. The td pass on a swing pass to a wide open running back possibly in the 4th qtr, all the defenders were looking at each other pre snap waving arms in the air.

Either the play didn't come down from upstairs in time or almost half the defense didn't know what they were supposed to do. I was at the game and you knew it was trouble before they even snapped the ball.

I do remember seeing that.

 

There was confusion for sure.  On what level or about what no one can be sure but it cost us no doubt.

[Guest]

Wooooohoooooo!!   Calm down everyone!  Didn't you hear?  Our prayers have been answered!!!  Ozzie & Pees just signed Asa Jackson today!!!!!  And don't forget, we still have that flea...Rashad Melvin!!   With Asa Jackson, who wasn't good enough to make the team the first time around, and Melvin, who isn't good enough to be on any pop warner team, much less any NFL team or practice squad.... are both in Baltimore to save the day!!! 

 

All jokes aside, I just created 12 different fanduel lineups with Kappernick as my QB!  I can't believe it, but our all-star secondary is going to make Kappernick look like Joe Montana!!  3 out of our first 5 games, the opposing QB (and in some cases QB/WR) have led fantasy!!  Amazing isnt it?  I figure as long as ozzie, peas, and trestman are here, I might as well cash in on it!

 

I believe the same.  We are going to resurrect Kaepernicks fallen star.

 

I'm seriously considering making him my Fantasy QB for the coming week.

[Guest]

“The coaches are doing a good job,” Harbaugh said. “We’ve just got to collectively find a way to finish games and get the job done. It’s tough challenges that we’re facing, but we’ve got just the men for the job right here.”

 

 

 

sick. this is just sad. lol. i can't believe he's actually saying " a good job " penalties, blown leads... this is a bad joke?  the season is far from good in any sense

 

"Happy Coach Speak"

 

What are you gonna do?

[PurpleCity5]

Many thanks. I'll give partial credit to the NFL Game Pass and All-22, which have made it so much easier to review specific plays through the years. Definitely agree on the assessment of the OL. That's fair. They did do a good job of containing the big plays on the outside and generally played well against the wideouts. The RBs and TEs went off but that was more-so on the linebackers. I'll give credit where it's due in that the secondary had a solid performance. The may have found a bargain in Ross Cockrell.

I need to find time to get some game rewind myself. I've been going back to the week 1 match-up against Denver just to find out what is up with the secondary. I also believe the Linebackers didn't do much in coverage but then again they were blitzing half the time. I also find the OL to be a huge reason as to why Melvin Gordon hasn't exploded yet. I also agree with Crockrell, he's played well. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

The d line is one of the few shining lights on the team and you want to jeopardize that? I don't think he wants to coach defense anyway.

If he can take what makes him an effective dline coach and apply it to the entire defense, then yes of course.

Plus, him becoming a coordinator doesn't mean all the sudden the dline will disappear. He'll still be at practice, coaching them. And since every other position has a position coach he could even continue in largely the same capacity except that he would come up with the defensive gameplan and call the defense during games.

I don't get the whole line of thinking that a position coach becoming a coordinator means that the position they're vacating won't be the same.

Offensive coordinators do it all the time. They'll continue to work very closely with the QB for example while trusting their assistants to focus on the other positions. Game day and game planning is really the only change in routine.

And you hope that whatever it is about Brooks that gets his group fired up, willing to go into battle for him, developing with a high success rate, and often playing above what their talent level suggests... You hope that some of that rubs off on every defensive player by making him the head hancho.

[-Truth-]

I need to find time to get some game rewind myself. I've been going back to the week 1 match-up against Denver just to find out what is up with the secondary. I also believe the Linebackers didn't do much in coverage but then again they were blitzing half the time. I also find the OL to be a huge reason as to why Melvin Gordon hasn't exploded yet. I also agree with Crockrell, he's played well. 

 

Any thoughts on the Denver game in that regard? Agreed there about the LBs. They had a tough time in coverage. Definitely concur about Gordon as well. He was credited with 11 broken tackles last night, but he was consistently having to evade defenders while a yard or two past the line of scrimmage. He deserves some blame for putting his head down a little early at times but I can't blame him much since I'm sure he was expecting to be swarmed.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Watching the Steelers secondary playing against San Diego. They're tough, passionate and aggressive and they're less talented than our secondary. The secondary was supposed to be a big weakness for them, but they've done so well quiet honestly and made plays. To be honest I feel like those qualities they have is what we lack from our guys.

Its all PEES soft zone scheme, nobody respects it, not even our own players...PEES HAS TO GO

[redrum52]

Its all PEES soft zone scheme, nobody respects it, not even our own players...PEES HAS TO GO

Lmao. People complain about soft zone, re then complain about guys getting beat in man. He shows press, but bails and people are upset with HIM, for the player getting torched.

If he's replaced cool, I have no problem with that, but fans show they have no idea of what they're talking about. I think he should go, but not for his scheme. It would be what seems is a lack of adjustments, in game and not to trying to make his defense more team friendly. For years now, it seems the guys are still communicating until the snap. Not his "soft zone" or "3 man rush. " Without looking up the numbers, I'd bet we're one of the more aggressive trams in the league.

[ravensdfan]

Lmao. People complain about soft zone, re then complain about guys getting beat in man. He shows press, but bails and people are upset with HIM, for the player getting torched.

If he's replaced cool, I have no problem with that, but fans show they have no idea of what they're talking about. I think he should go, but not for his scheme. It would be what seems is a lack of adjustments, in game and not to trying to make his defense more team friendly. For years now, it seems the guys are still communicating until the snap. Not his "soft zone" or "3 man rush. " Without looking up the numbers, I'd bet we're one of the more aggressive trams in the league.

He plays very little press man and his off man might as well be soft zone when he plays them off 7 yds or more.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

The more I think about it, there's just too much new this year; and not enough experience to transition the new effectively.

 

The guys who are our vets right now, especially on defense, really havent been here that long. The players that embodied the Ravens identity are either gone or hurt. 

 

Right now we have 2 safeties, 1 CB, 2 OLB's, 1 ILB, and 3 dlineman playing big time snaps that have 2 years or less within the Ravens defense.

 

The others are Darly Smith who is still a relatively new addition, Jimmy Smith and Ladarius Webb who both have been injured frequently so even though they've been here they are much less experienced than the amount of years theyve been here indicate. Jimmys got maybe 2 whole season, Webb's working toward what - 3? 

 

On offense theres like 5 WR, 3 TE's, 3 offensive lineman, 2 RB's and the OC all with 2 years or less tenure.

 

By my account that's about 18+ starters and 22 players that are heavy in the rotation with little to no experience in this system. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but how did we ever expect this to work right away? Especially now with the injuries these numbers are worse, and it's not inexperienced vets, it's a big burden on rookies - and not highly drafted ones.

 

To be fair, this was always going to be a monumental challenge; and with the injuries it's become a near impossibility. We've come to expect it as Ravens fans, but it was always going to catch up with us eventually. And now it has. 

 

Being fair and objective now that ive finally calm down.... I cant say I'm surprised and it's pretty unreasonable to expect this cast to be a cohesive unit. It's disorganized and undisciplined but I think that should be expected with the number of young and inexperienced players/coaches we're fielding.

 

--

 

To put it bluntly, we're fielding a Browns-Raiders-Jags-Titans-of-recent-history-esque roster but expecting Ravens results. The fact that we're competitive each  game with such little proven talent is almost a victory in and of itself.

 

My goal is now hoping this young talent develops and creates a solid, disciplined core to build around. And maybe thats what it should have been all along once the injuries started.

Edited October 14, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[redrum52]

He plays very little press man and his off man might as well be soft zone when he plays them off 7 yds or more.

Do you think the Patriots would run the same type of offense with the Bengals wr corps? Personnel effects strategy and game plan, to a degree, I would think.

[PurpleCity5]

Any thoughts on the Denver game in that regard? Agreed there about the LBs. They had a tough time in coverage. Definitely concur about Gordon as well. He was credited with 11 broken tackles last night, but he was consistently having to evade defenders while a yard or two past the line of scrimmage. He deserves some blame for putting his head down a little early at times but I can't blame him much since I'm sure he was expecting to be swarmed.

Yeah, as for Denver man our secondary looked confident and the scheme looked like it worked very well. I'll speak in regards to the defense. The defense was highly energetic and def. got into the groove of things as the game went, this is kind of what I mean when I say that Pees lost confidence in his players, this is totally absent as of now. 

 

Well, the bend-but-don't break obviously worked well as the guys were making tackles, something they don't do now. During the 2nd half we played a bit more man to man. I thought Webb played better than people make it up to be. During the 1:06:25 mark Denver ran a cross route and Webb was all over DT. This what seemed to have worked for most of the game, when we began to play a bit more man-to-man coverage it worked very well. The cushion we gave opposing WRs during the 1st half wasn't awful, but it allowed Denver to move the ball. The Man-To-Man coverage took away a bunch of short routes Denver tried to run, something we can't stop now apparently. Webb played well IMO.

 

Chris Canty was impressive this game, he beat his man plenty of times, pushed the OL and even got a sack on Peyton. I thought he played very well. He was pushing around Tyler Sambrailo all game long. 

 

Will Hill was all over the place, he made a pair of tackles for a loss and played some nice coverage. He was full of speed and looked very energetic.  

 

I'd like to go to Jimmy's pick 6. Jimmy completely read Peyton and left DT all alone to Kendrick Lewis. The reason why the play worked so well was because of the blitz which panicked Peyton into throwing that pick, Denver had no clue Arrington was blitzing and Peyton was confused on that play thanks to the safeties shifting right before the snap. Lewis did a nice job of shielding DT so he wouldn't be open deep. Jimmy read Peyton very well and knew exactly where he was going throw not to mention Peyton threw it very late as well. I thought everyone played a part on that Pick 6. Lewis had some nice coverage on that play which Allowed Jimmy to break on the ball. This play was a perfect example of communication and execution on all cylinders, another thing was lack right now. It was a well designed play that I think Pees either practiced or drawn up himself.

 

What we did in the Denver game, is what we fail to do right now. No communication, no tackling, no execution, no energy and no aggressiveness. It was the complete opposite at Denver. Losing Suggs hurt. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[GrimCoconut]

Not going to quote the post above, but the defense definitely changed when we lost Suggs. This change happened in the game itself. I think losing Suggs hurt our season and he was a greater loss than anyone assumed.

It's clear we currently have no dogs on the field. Nobody strikes fear out there and it hurts us. I have a hard time believing that Manning looked that bad because he sucks when we just let McCown set records on our defense. Surely nobody dares to suggest McCown is better than Manning, even at this point in his career.

With that said, I still blame Pees for the defense because I'd praise him if the defense was doing well. There's clearly a void of leadership not fostered on this team. Pees is the leader of the defense and should rightly share in its fortune and failure.

[K-Dog]

Not going to quote the post above, but the defense definitely changed when we lost Suggs. This change happened in the game itself. I think losing Suggs hurt our season and he was a greater loss than anyone assumed.

.

Yeah. I for one thought we would at least be okay.

Babbin was a good idea that flat out didn't work.

We need some one to take some of the attention from Doom....... once he gets back.

[The Raven]

That isn't up for debate. The players publicly complained about his changes.

 

Sure, and then that same offensive line coach helped make them the second best run blocking line in the NFL the next season. I think the poor run game in 2013 was due to Caldwell, not Castillo. 

 

Also, what I heard about Castillo's changes was that he was making practices more physical and he was demanding more from his guys. Doesn't that explain why McKinnie and Oher were the only ones who complained?

 

Look at it like this: When Yanda, Wagner, KO, Jensen, Hurst, and Urschel get asked about their performance, they go out of their way to credit Castillo. I've read the transcripts. Like last year Wagner was asked about how he had such a good season, and he went off about how great Castillo is.

[flynismo]

Sure, and then that same offensive line coach helped make them the second best run blocking line in the NFL the next season. I think the poor run game in 2013 was due to Caldwell, not Castillo. 

 

Also, what I heard about Castillo's changes was that he was making practices more physical and he was demanding more from his guys. Doesn't that explain why McKinnie and Oher were the only ones who complained?

 

Look at it like this: When Yanda, Wagner, KO, Jensen, Hurst, and Urschel get asked about their performance, they go out of their way to credit Castillo. I've read the transcripts. Like last year Wagner was asked about how he had such a good season, and he went off about how great Castillo is.

 

Haha, I don't care what year it is, I can always appreciate a good barb directed at those two louts.

 

Well, here's the thing, I could present counterarguments to your thoughts above, because I half agree, half disagree. But really, it's just our opinions, we don't really know anything other than Castillo came in and changed things, and our offense took a massive dump due to the play of the OL. For all we know, Kubiak and his scheme is what turned things around

[berad]

I appreciate the parallels of the discussions but, just as a reminder, this thread is about Dean Pees

[DomMcRaven]

Well speaking of Pees, oh boy: http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Were-A-Blitzing-Team/27727566-7d8c-4cb9-b542-77f02fc06f7f#commentSystem

[BSHU_Miami]

Well speaking of Pees, oh boy: http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Were-A-Blitzing-Team/27727566-7d8c-4cb9-b542-77f02fc06f7f#commentSystem

three??? Three plays?

[darklight1216]

Well speaking of Pees, oh boy: http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Were-A-Blitzing-Team/27727566-7d8c-4cb9-b542-77f02fc06f7f#commentSystem

You can't hear it, but I'm whistling at this stat.

 

 

Opposing quarterbacks have completed 38-of-59 passes for 565 yards with six touchdowns and an interception when the Ravens blitz. Their combined quarterback rating is 122.49, giving the Ravens defense the second worst mark in the league.

 

 

No wonder everyone looks like a HOFer when they play Baltimore.

 

I remember someone saying that Kap could revive his career on Sunday. I might have to agree.

[AsianRice]

You can't hear it, but I'm whistling at this stat.

 

 

 

 

No wonder everyone looks like a HOFer when they play Baltimore.

 

I remember someone saying that Kap could revive his career on Sunday. I might have to agree.

dear lord, Kap gonna be happy that he finally can pull out his kissing bicep TD celebration cuz it's been a while..........

[Tru11]

You can't hear it, but I'm whistling at this stat.

 

 

 

 

No wonder everyone looks like a HOFer when they play Baltimore.

 

I remember someone saying that Kap could revive his career on Sunday. I might have to agree.

 

its what you get when you are blitzing but dont have the personnel to do so.

 

but hey everyone here suggested it was a good idea     

[ravensdfan]

Well speaking of Pees, oh boy: http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Were-A-Blitzing-Team/27727566-7d8c-4cb9-b542-77f02fc06f7f#commentSystem

lmbo @ 3 plays.

 

3 plays did not give McGown 457 yards. Better watch that tape again.

[DefensiveMind]

coming out of my room to see if he is fired yet...no? ok, ill be back in about a month

[-Truth-]

Yeah, as for Denver man our secondary looked confident and the scheme looked like it worked very well. I'll speak in regards to the defense. The defense was highly energetic and def. got into the groove of things as the game went, this is kind of what I mean when I say that Pees lost confidence in his players, this is totally absent as of now. 

 

Well, the bend-but-don't break obviously worked well as the guys were making tackles, something they don't do now. During the 2nd half we played a bit more man to man. I thought Webb played better than people make it up to be. During the 1:06:25 mark Denver ran a cross route and Webb was all over DT. This what seemed to have worked for most of the game, when we began to play a bit more man-to-man coverage it worked very well. The cushion we gave opposing WRs during the 1st half wasn't awful, but it allowed Denver to move the ball. The Man-To-Man coverage took away a bunch of short routes Denver tried to run, something we can't stop now apparently. Webb played well IMO.

 

Chris Canty was impressive this game, he beat his man plenty of times, pushed the OL and even got a sack on Peyton. I thought he played very well. He was pushing around Tyler Sambrailo all game long. 

 

Will Hill was all over the place, he made a pair of tackles for a loss and played some nice coverage. He was full of speed and looked very energetic.  

 

I'd like to go to Jimmy's pick 6. Jimmy completely read Peyton and left DT all alone to Kendrick Lewis. The reason why the play worked so well was because of the blitz which panicked Peyton into throwing that pick, Denver had no clue Arrington was blitzing and Peyton was confused on that play thanks to the safeties shifting right before the snap. Lewis did a nice job of shielding DT so he wouldn't be open deep. Jimmy read Peyton very well and knew exactly where he was going throw not to mention Peyton threw it very late as well. I thought everyone played a part on that Pick 6. Lewis had some nice coverage on that play which Allowed Jimmy to break on the ball. This play was a perfect example of communication and execution on all cylinders, another thing was lack right now. It was a well designed play that I think Pees either practiced or drawn up himself.

 

What we did in the Denver game, is what we fail to do right now. No communication, no tackling, no execution, no energy and no aggressiveness. It was the complete opposite at Denver. Losing Suggs hurt. 

 

Terrific breakdown. And I fully agree with the latter statements as well. Our players don't seem comfortable in general.

[salamander]

It blows my mind that Pees and Harbs only found 3 plays out of 90 that they would change from a coaching perspective. I was hoping for some change from Pees but it seems like he's digging his heels in and ready to totally blame bad player execution and technique in any of the other 87 plays he called. Pees is disproportionately throwing the players under the bus if he takes responsibility for only 3 plays. It took a lot of ineffective defensive decisions to blow that game beyond bad execution. I would imagine that an excellent DC could look game film from a decisive win could find a dozen or 2 plays he could have changed. Pees finds he only made 3 bad play calls in a game his defense gave away? Harbs agrees with Pees? This is worse news than no news.

Edited October 15, 2015 by salamander

[PurpleCity5]

Terrific breakdown. And I fully agree with the latter statements as well. Our players don't seem comfortable in general.

Thanks and yeah Im with Grim, it wasn't even after the game, when Suggs went down the players looked different, the team as a whole overall.

Edited October 15, 2015 by PurpleCity5

[BmoreBird22]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-ravens-defense-dean-pees-20151014-story.html

I usually don't like the writings of Brown, but he makes a lot of good points here. Firstly, he has tried just about everything, but people will criticize everything he did if it doesn't work, even if he does what they were calling for. 

Secondly, what would people rather have him do? I have a few things in mind, which I've made clear before, but their minor gripes in comparison to the lack of execution overall.

Thirdly, read this quote by B. Williams. Brown makes an excellent point that if things aren't working, usually players will make it known.

 

"Pees is doing a great job. I think he’s doing a great job with everything that he’s got," Ravens nose tackle Brandon Williams said. "Everything that he’s doing, everything that we’re doing, he’s coaching us and telling us. He has a great game plan every week. So it’s just up to us to finish and make that game plan even better – just to go out there and execute it to the best of our ability.”