The Dean Pees Thread (merged)

[Ravens2343]

Fire Pees and bring in Pagano or a coordinator who is aggressive and animated.  We need someone on the sidelines who can get in players faces and fire up our defense.  Go heavy on the defensive side of the ball in the draft and make sure they are FAST.  We lack any kind of speed in several positions.  Urban will help the pass rush when he returns but fast linebackers and safeties would be nice

[Willbacker]

Yep I dont see many people defending Pees no more. Its not just the games we lost but there was some we barely won cuz the D let them right back in it. Remember the SB win. How big of a lead did we have? I'm believing in Ray's energy and desire is what pulled us through. Who knows maybe even Ray called the all out blitz or at least influenced the call. 8th ranked D last year. Whatever. What did they rank in 4th qtr scores or even 2 minute drills(both halves) the last 3 years? I gotta feeling its low.

[RavensFanMania]

Fire Pees and bring in Pagano or a coordinator who is aggressive and animated.  We need someone on the sidelines who can get in players faces and fire up our defense.  Go heavy on the defensive side of the ball in the draft and make sure they are FAST.  We lack any kind of speed in several positions.  Urban will help the pass rush when he returns but fast linebackers and safeties would be nice

I'm hoping this happens.

[ratedr]

Yep I dont see many people defending Pees no more. Its not just the games we lost but there was some we barely won cuz the D let them right back in it. Remember the SB win. How big of a lead did we have? I'm believing in Ray's energy and desire is what pulled us through. Who knows maybe even Ray called the all out blitz or at least influenced the call. 8th ranked D last year. Whatever. What did they rank in 4th qtr scores or even 2 minute drills(both halves) the last 3 years? I gotta feeling its low.

We've been blowing leads since 2012. Like you said I think Ray and Ed helped us get some clutch stops with their intelligence in 2012, but even with them we almost blew it in the Super Bowl.

[rmcjacket23]

Make no mistake...IF Pees gets fired mid-season (and I doubt he is), the DC for 2015 will be somebody on the staff already.

 

There's a 0% chance the organization brings in an external coach mid-season. Just doesn't make sense to do that.

[PurpleCity5]

I really need to know how on Earth the secondary has regressed this year compared to last. I would never think that would be possible. 

[Ravens2343]

Make no mistake...IF Pees gets fired mid-season (and I doubt he is), the DC for 2015 will be somebody on the staff already.

 

There's a 0% chance the organization brings in an external coach mid-season. Just doesn't make sense to do that.

 

If this is the case then I would expect Don Martindale to get the nod.  Has experience and has coached some really good players over the years.  The players respect him and before Suggs injury linebacker was our most talented position group.  Getting an experienced secondary coach would help as well

[GrimCoconut]

Make no mistake...IF Pees gets fired mid-season (and I doubt he is), the DC for 2015 will be somebody on the staff already.

There's a 0% chance the organization brings in an external coach mid-season. Just doesn't make sense to do that.

Yeah that's the issue. This same coach will also likely be our future defensive coordinator since I find it unlikely we demote them when the season's over if/when he's fired.

[GrimCoconut]

If this is the case then I would expect Don Martindale to get the nod. Has experience and has coached some really good players over the years. The players respect him and before Suggs injury linebacker was our most talented position group. Getting an experienced secondary coach would help as well

He does seem like the obvious replacement. Much like Ed Reed before him, Suggs attributed influence Ted had on him as Ed did Chuck.

[ratedr]

I really need to know how on Earth the secondary has regressed this year compared to last. I would never think that would be possible. 

We have a new secondary coach as well now that Spags left. Chris Hewitt. Former special teams coach, no experience on defense. What could go wrong?

[berad]

Doubt Pees gets fired mid-season unless the defensive breakdowns continue and we remain winless. One of Harbaugh's greatest strengths - loyalty - can turn into a weakness. Not saying Pees being fired would save the season, anyway.

 

We have a new secondary coach as well now that Spags left. Chris Hewitt. Former special teams coach, no experience on defense. What could go wrong?

 

That's a little unfair, he's got experience playing and coaching DB.

[ratedr]

Wonder if this would've been what happened if we had more than one year of the Mattison experience.

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah that's the issue. This same coach will also likely be our future defensive coordinator since I find it unlikely we demote them when the season's over if/when he's fired.

Not sure what the future at DC is, which is why I don't see Pees getting fired this season either. You promote internally and you probably don't accomplish much, which is your only option until 2016.

 

Just don't see exactly what we are accomplishing there by doing this.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Even Mattison wasn't this soft.

[CalvinSmoke]

I really need to know how on Earth the secondary has regressed this year compared to last. I would never think that would be possible.

I guess because the pass rush got worse

[Static]

Promote from within and then make decisions after the season.

 

I don't see the hesitation to move on Peas. He has been here for a long time ( as long as Our DC's are concerned) and its not like we can get worse tbh.

[Ravens2343]

Not sure what the future at DC is, which is why I don't see Pees getting fired this season either. You promote internally and you probably don't accomplish much, which is your only option until 2016.

 

Just don't see exactly what we are accomplishing there by doing this.

 

I wouldn't be opposed to hiring a guy like Schwartz at the end of the season and making a transition to a 4-3/3-4 hybrid.  He ran something similar in Buffalo and our personnel matches up with theirs.  Suggs and Doom could still rush standing up on occasion but our linebackers with speed (Mosley and Brown) could be tasked with covering.  I doubt it happens but maybe the front office is starting to trend that way

[rmw10]

Another big issue is that typically when we show blitz, we're getting annihilated out there.  The only real success we've had is with the overload.  When we show standard blitz, we get beat on the short throws because our DBs are playing off in effort to not get burned deep.  I feel like we're missing those disguises that we had in week 1.  I know it sucks to lose Suggs, but it's crazy how one player has completely changed this team.  Pressure is no longer being schemed unless it's a recognizable blitz.

[ravensdfan]

i blame pees and the players, not one or the other.  Pees may not call best schemes, he also doesnt not tackle or turn his head and try to locate the ball....theres no direction in the secondary, no one communicates and i dont think a new DC will fix that

 

The communication prolem is not new and these guys played elsewhere and were not hot garbage. It has been an issue since Pees came here once Ray & Ed were gone. Someone said his plays are too complicated. I seem to recall the players saying something along those lines about the O line and Castillo. That he made simple things complicated. They said Kubiak came in and simplified it again. So yes, that is on the DC.

Promote from within and then make decisions after the season.

 

I don't see the hesitation to move on Peas. He has been here for a long time ( as long as Our DC's are concerned) and its not like we can get worse tbh.

I don't understand the hesitation either. The numbers back up that the 4th quarter melt downs have been costing us games since he got here. Promote from within and then you make a decision long term at the end of the season. Everyone talks about a short week but we fired Cam on Dec. 12th and played a game on Dec 16. Not seeing the difference.

[gtalk12]

I can not believe how soft our defense has become....

[rmcjacket23]

The communication prolem is not new and these guys played elsewhere and were not hot garbage. It has been an issue since Pees came here once Ray & Ed were gone. Someone said his plays are too complicated. I seem to recall the players saying something along those lines about the O line and Castillo. That he made simple things complicated. They said Kubiak came in and simplified it again. So yes, that is on the DC.

I don't understand the hesitation either. The numbers back up that the 4th quarter melt downs have been costing us games since he got here. Promote from within and then you make a decision long term at the end of the season. Everyone talks about a short week but we fired Cam on Dec. 12th and played a game on Dec 16. Not seeing the difference.

Well, the main difference is one team was a legit contender (9-4 at the time), and one is not (0-3 at the time). Firing Cam was essentially a "desperation" move in an effort to spark a team towards a massive playoff run. At 0-3, I just don't think there's any spark to be given that will all of the sudden vault this team into relevance this season. That spark would be for 2016.

 

Plus, nobody realistically thinks firing Pees and promoting internally is all of the sudden going to make this defense great, because anybody who watches the games can see that we have plenty of personnel issues. We can't get to the QB without blitzing, and when we do blitz, we leave some of our extraordinarily average and below average secondary players out there to defend guys they can't.

 

Nobody thinks Kendrick Lewis is a good player right now. Nobody thinks Webb, Melvin or Arrington are good players right now. I don't see a DC available or maybe even on the planet that are going to make these guys into great players with whatever elaborate schemes they can develop.

 

Pees gets blame, no question, possibly the majority of it. But a MIXTURE of a new philosophy on defense AND some new personnel is frankly what this team needs, and that's just simply not gonna happen during the season and probably won't happen in one offseason either.

 

AND... we're also ignoring the biggest elephant in the room in my eyes, which is, again, the offense taking about half the game off.

[GrimCoconut]

Well, the main difference is one team was a legit contender (9-4 at the time), and one is not (0-3 at the time). Firing Cam was essentially a "desperation" move in an effort to spark a team towards a massive playoff run. At 0-3, I just don't think there's any spark to be given that will all of the sudden vault this team into relevance this season. That spark would be for 2016.

Plus, nobody realistically thinks firing Pees and promoting internally is all of the sudden going to make this defense great, because anybody who watches the games can see that we have plenty of personnel issues. We can't get to the QB without blitzing, and when we do blitz, we leave some of our extraordinarily average and below average secondary players out there to defend guys they can't.

Nobody thinks Kendrick Lewis is a good player right now. Nobody thinks Webb, Melvin or Arrington are good players right now. I don't see a DC available or maybe even on the planet that are going to make these guys into great players with whatever elaborate schemes they can develop.

Pees gets blame, no question, possibly the majority of it. But a MIXTURE of a new philosophy on defense AND some new personnel is frankly what this team needs, and that's just simply not gonna happen during the season and probably won't happen in one offseason either.

AND... we're also ignoring the biggest elephant in the room in my eyes, which is, again, the offense taking about half the game off.

I think this defense has the talent to stop teams. We need a few pieces on defense, but I think a new coordinator could do wonders. I do somewhat agree that I'm apprehensive to make an adjustment there in the season.

[berad]

Well, the main difference is one team was a legit contender (9-4 at the time), and one is not (0-3 at the time). Firing Cam was essentially a "desperation" move in an effort to spark a team towards a massive playoff run. At 0-3, I just don't think there's any spark to be given that will all of the sudden vault this team into relevance this season. That spark would be for 2016.

 

Plus, nobody realistically thinks firing Pees and promoting internally is all of the sudden going to make this defense great, because anybody who watches the games can see that we have plenty of personnel issues. We can't get to the QB without blitzing, and when we do blitz, we leave some of our extraordinarily average and below average secondary players out there to defend guys they can't.

 

Nobody thinks Kendrick Lewis is a good player right now. Nobody thinks Webb, Melvin or Arrington are good players right now. I don't see a DC available or maybe even on the planet that are going to make these guys into great players with whatever elaborate schemes they can develop.

 

Pees gets blame, no question, possibly the majority of it. But a MIXTURE of a new philosophy on defense AND some new personnel is frankly what this team needs, and that's just simply not gonna happen during the season and probably won't happen in one offseason either.

 

AND... we're also ignoring the biggest elephant in the room in my eyes, which is, again, the offense taking about half the game off.

 

Plenty of threads to talk about if you'd like - but we'd like to keep this one on topic.

[ravensdfan]

Well, the main difference is one team was a legit contender (9-4 at the time), and one is not (0-3 at the time). Firing Cam was essentially a "desperation" move in an effort to spark a team towards a massive playoff run. At 0-3, I just don't think there's any spark to be given that will all of the sudden vault this team into relevance this season. That spark would be for 2016.

 

Plus, nobody realistically thinks firing Pees and promoting internally is all of the sudden going to make this defense great, because anybody who watches the games can see that we have plenty of personnel issues. We can't get to the QB without blitzing, and when we do blitz, we leave some of our extraordinarily average and below average secondary players out there to defend guys they can't.

 

Nobody thinks Kendrick Lewis is a good player right now. Nobody thinks Webb, Melvin or Arrington are good players right now. I don't see a DC available or maybe even on the planet that are going to make these guys into great players with whatever elaborate schemes they can develop.

 

Pees gets blame, no question, possibly the majority of it. But a MIXTURE of a new philosophy on defense AND some new personnel is frankly what this team needs, and that's just simply not gonna happen during the season and probably won't happen in one offseason either.

 

AND... we're also ignoring the biggest elephant in the room in my eyes, which is, again, the offense taking about half the game off.

The offense did indeed take half the game off but I don't see how you can fault the offense for taking half the game off when the defense took the last 2 games off in their entirety. The offense wound up with respectable numbers. The defense gave up 2 4th quarter leads and gave game yardage to one receiver. Just can't see blaming the offense for this one with those facts.

 

I have no doubt that a new DC does not immediately fix all our woes but we need to know how much is truly personnel (and which personnel) and how much is the DC. You only find that out with the DC gone.

[rmcjacket23]

I think this defense has the talent to stop teams. We need a few pieces on defense, but I think a new coordinator could do wonders. I do somewhat agree that I'm apprehensive to make an adjustment there in the season.

There's no question we have the talent to stop teams.

 

The problem is... that doesn't guarantee us victory. We largely stopped the Broncos, and we lost that game. We actually played a pretty good first half of football on defense against Cincinnati... and we still lost that game. I'd say, generally speaking, about 50% of the time this season the defense has actually played pretty well. And we are still 0-3.

 

The offense ain't exactly prolific. It needs a lot of work too (from our inability to run the ball to having basically zero targets to trust outside of SSS).

[The Mom Gene]

There's no question we have the talent to stop teams.

 

The problem is... that doesn't guarantee us victory. We largely stopped the Broncos, and we lost that game. We actually played a pretty good first half of football on defense against Cincinnati... and we still lost that game. I'd say, generally speaking, about 50% of the time this season the defense has actually played pretty well. And we are still 0-3.

 

The offense ain't exactly prolific. It needs a lot of work too (from our inability to run the ball to having basically zero targets to trust outside of SSS).

I agree....  It took the offense the first 1/2 to get it going...  and plow through Cincy's defense...  and then once the offense got going the defense faltered.

 

We are "IN" every single game.  THAT's the part that bothers me.  We just can't seem to get an entire game together.

[rmcjacket23]

The offense did indeed take half the game off but I don't see how you can fault the offense for taking half the game off when the defense took the last 2 games off in their entirety. The offense wound up with respectable numbers. The defense gave up 2 4th quarter leads and gave game yardage to one receiver. Just can't see blaming the offense for this one with those facts.

 

I have no doubt that a new DC does not immediately fix all our woes but we need to know how much is truly personnel (and which personnel) and how much is the DC. You only find that out with the DC gone.

Didn't really have a problem with the way our defense played in the first half yesterday. They had two long drives where we couldn't get off the field, but we did make a stop at the end and they only scored 7 points that didn't come from Joe's awful INT.

 

They had 188 yards of offense in the first half, with 30 of them and 7 points coming off Joe's INT. So basically, about 150 yards and a TD allowed in the first half.

 

Not wonderful from a yardage perspective, but would have certainly been sufficient for anybody when we play a team with an offense as good as the Bengals. They also struggled to run the ball against us for basically the whole game. Second half, as we all know, was a completely different story.

 

In my opinion, we've played about 5-6 quarters of pretty good defensive football so far this season, which is about 50%. The other quarters, however, were pretty awful. If you asked me, the offense is about at the same level on their side as well. Played maybe 6-7 quarters of good football all season long too.

[berad]

Comments about the offense - meant to derail the thread - will be removed. If I wasn't clear before.

[gtalk12]

I'm done with Pees. It's not some sudden decision either. I'm so sick of him at the moment. These problems continue and I still see no improvement. I just want someone new now. I still don't think he's a bad coordinator but I am convinced he doesn't have the full support of the players.

 

 

this

[redrum52]

Wonder if this would've been what happened if we had more than one year of the Mattison experience.

We had 2 and people complained just as much then.