The Dean Pees Thread (merged)

[JO_75]

Read this article, and boy was I surprised to see how many losses we have had giving up a 4th quarter lead. Honestly with Pees' defensive scheme, I expected it to have been more. Or at least it seems like we have given up more. Since being promoted to DC in 2012(he was Linebackers Coach in 2010 and 2011), we have given up 9 fourth quarter leads, the loss to the Raiders was the ninth loss. Nine seems like a low number considering how many games we have played in that time span but those were critical to how the season ended. The two double digit leads that we gave up to the Patriots after Joe did his Playoff Joe thing and all he could do is watch Pees give the game away. Pats had no business being in the AFC Title game, let alone the Super Bowl against the Seahawks.

 

We were one game short of making the playoffs in 2013 and our defense blew 4th quarter leads that year and we would have been in 2013 if one or two of those went our way and we didn't give up the lead. Last year, we could have clinched a playoff spot prior to week 17 if we didn't blow some games last year. I just hope this Raiders loss doesn't come back to bite us in Week 17. 

 

Pees needs to go it's the same old thing every year with him. Even with Jimmy back in our secondary, Will Hill playing great and the addition of Kendrick Lewis, we are still a poor secondary. It's not the players, it's the DC.

Edited September 26, 2015 by JO_75

[redrum52]

Read this article, and boy was I surprised to see how many losses we have had giving up a 4th quarter lead. Honestly with Pees' defensive scheme, I expected it to have been more. Or at least it seems like we have given up more. Since being promoted to DC in 2012(he was Linebackers Coach in 2010 and 2011), we have given up 9 fourth quarter leads, the loss to the Raiders was the ninth loss. Nine seems like a low number considering how many games we have played in that time span but those were critical to how the season ended. The two double digit leads that we gave up to the Patriots after Joe did his Playoff Joe thing and all he could do is watch Pees give the game away. Pats had no business being in the AFC Title game, let alone the Super Bowl against the Seahawks.

We were one game short of making the playoffs in 2013 and our defense blew 4th quarter leads that year and we would have been in 2013 if one or two of those went our way and we didn't give up the lead. Last year, we could have clinched a playoff spot prior to week 17 if we didn't blow some games last year. I just hope this Raiders loss doesn't come back to bite us in Week 17.

Pees needs to go it's the same old thing every year with him. Even with Jimmy back in our secondary, Will Hill playing great and the addition of Kendrick Lewis, we are still a poor secondary. It's not the players, it's the DC.

Do you hold the offense accountable as well when they don't score and they have the ball last? Cause in 2013, they failed a few times as well, Bills and Bears off the top of my head. In 14 the Bengals opener, and that Patriots playoff game come to mind as well. There was also the Bronco's game. If you're going to bring up the games lost by the defense, why not mention the times we've had ball last and come up short? How about average amount of 4th quaters leads given up by teams in the league so there is something to judge it by.

Bronco's can make a case we shouldn't have won the SB, going these standards.

You may not like the scheme or philosophy, but he can't be held accountable for poor tackling, no rush and corners not covering.

Edited September 26, 2015 by redrum52

[DomMcRaven]

Reading this forum is going to be quite interesting after our game tomorrow....

[RaineV1]

Do you hold the offense accountable as well when they don't score and they have the ball last? Cause in 2013, they failed a few times as well, Bills and Bears off the top of my head. In 14 the Bengals opener, and that Patriots playoff game come to mind as well. There was also the Bronco's game. If you're going to bring up the games lost by the defense, why not mention the times we've had ball last and come up short? How about average amount of 4th quaters leads given up by teams in the league so there is something to judge it by.

Bronco's can make a case we shouldn't have won the SB, going these standards.

You may not like the scheme or philosophy, but he can't be held accountable for poor tackling, no rush and corners not covering.

He can be held accountable for poor tackling if he isn't having them practice open field tackling. Making sure every single player on your defense can make open field tackles to prevent YAC should be one of the top priorities for a bend but don't break defense. And it just seems like poor tackling, and other lack of fundamentals has been an issue ever since he took over. If players are failing in the same way over and over again, you eventually need to take a look at the coach.

Edited September 26, 2015 by RaineV1

[ravensdfan]

Read this article, and boy was I surprised to see how many losses we have had giving up a 4th quarter lead. Honestly with Pees' defensive scheme, I expected it to have been more. Or at least it seems like we have given up more. Since being promoted to DC in 2012(he was Linebackers Coach in 2010 and 2011), we have given up 9 fourth quarter leads, the loss to the Raiders was the ninth loss. Nine seems like a low number considering how many games we have played in that time span but those were critical to how the season ended. The two double digit leads that we gave up to the Patriots after Joe did his Playoff Joe thing and all he could do is watch Pees give the game away. Pats had no business being in the AFC Title game, let alone the Super Bowl against the Seahawks.

 

We were one game short of making the playoffs in 2013 and our defense blew 4th quarter leads that year and we would have been in 2013 if one or two of those went our way and we didn't give up the lead. Last year, we could have clinched a playoff spot prior to week 17 if we didn't blow some games last year. I just hope this Raiders loss doesn't come back to bite us in Week 17. 

 

Pees needs to go it's the same old thing every year with him. Even with Jimmy back in our secondary, Will Hill playing great and the addition of Kendrick Lewis, we are still a poor secondary. It's not the players, it's the DC.

That number is not correct. That is only the times we LOST the games. They gave up 4th quarter leads where the offense went down and scored and we won. Not to mention, scoring drives that ended in either a dropped TD pass (Weedon and the Browns) or missed FGs. (Dallas is one). Minneosta where they gave up 2 4th quarter leads in the final minutes, but we still won.

[ravensdfan]

Do you hold the offense accountable as well when they don't score and they have the ball last? Cause in 2013, they failed a few times as well, Bills and Bears off the top of my head. In 14 the Bengals opener, and that Patriots playoff game come to mind as well. There was also the Bronco's game. If you're going to bring up the games lost by the defense, why not mention the times we've had ball last and come up short? How about average amount of 4th quaters leads given up by teams in the league so there is something to judge it by.

Bronco's can make a case we shouldn't have won the SB, going these standards.

You may not like the scheme or philosophy, but he can't be held accountable for poor tackling, no rush and corners not covering.

Happy to calculate it but what criteria are you holding the offense to? Just if they touched the ball or if they actually had time to get something done. Anything over a minute or only 2 mins or more?

 

Five. Five times the offense got the ball with 2 mins or just under 2 mins left and the opportunity to win the game and failed.

 

For clarification: I did not count games where they had under a minute and 80 yds nor games where they had no opportunity to win the game.

 

Neither of this year's games were counted for either side but I'd give the offense one loss and the defense the other.

Edited September 26, 2015 by ravensdfan

[redrum52]

Reading this forum is going to be quite interesting after our game tomorrow....

I think we win, but if we lose...whatever. it's all about the journey. You know what made that last SB so sweet? Everything that lead tonit. Loss to the Steelers the year 2 years before, the loss to the Pats, the losing streak. If it was easy, Would it really be that enjoyable?

[Maryland]

That number is not correct. That is only the times we LOST the games. They gave up 4th quarter leads where the offense went down and scored and we won. Not to mention, scoring drives that ended in either a dropped TD pass (Weedon and the Browns) or missed FGs. (Dallas is one). Minneosta where they gave up 2 4th quarter leads in the final minutes, but we still won.

That Dallas game was mostly because Ayanbadejo muffed an onside kick recovery, although Pees did give up a few yards afterwards. 

 

/although they did have the chance to tie on a 2-pt conversion before that, so you're right, nvm.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Maryland

[redrum52]

Happy to calculate it but what criteria are you holding the offense to? Just if they touched the ball or if they actually had time to get something done. Anything over a minute or only 2 mins or more?

Five. Five times the offense got the ball with 2 mins or just under 2 mins left and the opportunity to win the game and failed.

For clarification: I did not count games where they had under a minute and 80 yds nor games where they had no opportunity to win the game.

Neither of this year's games were counted for either side but I'd give the offense one loss and the defense the other.

Minute 40 and up sounds reasonable. Anything under would be a stretch, especially with the Ravens TO management.

[ravensdfan]

Minute 40 and up sounds reasonable. Anything under would be a stretch, especially with the Ravens TO management.

So strictly counting games we lost in the 4th quarter since 2012, it is 10-6. Bear in mind, this only counts games where we either tied the game or took the lead and then the defense gave up the game winning scoring drive, only counts losses and does not include games where one side or the other had a less than stellar performance and we pulled out the win anyway. or games where both or one side did not perform but we were down early in the game and never got close.

 

On a quick count, just from memory, there is the Dallas game, the Minnesota game where the defense also failed late in the 4th but we won anyway.

 

Because this isn't about the defense versus the offense for me, this is about that bend but don't break everyone defends that breaks way too often.

 

So counting only the 22 losses, the defense broke 45% of the time. Over the course of 3 full seasons, it is difficult to attribute that to players and not scheme. That is not a successfully run bend but don't break since the entire premise of such a defense is that you can hold that late lead.

Edited September 26, 2015 by ravensdfan

[Clmraven]

The more I think about it, im not sure he's the coordinator for this team, he's not bad he can dial up blitzes and stop the run with the best of them but all teams have to do to beat us is run a hurry up pass heavy offense, plus the inconsistency is crazy the way he can call a masterful game one week (Broncos wk1 steelers playoff game) and then come back and look like he's changed nothing at all the next week, our secondary was decimated last year I'll give him that,but now we have a top 10 corner and a top 3 saftey and some other solid players in the secondary Webb isn't great by any means but how many teams really have 2 legitimate cornerbacks? we shouldn't be this bad against the pass, I can't really say if it's pees or the players but it seems like the secondary still lacks good communication and we still give up the deep ball way too easily.

[BSHU_Miami]

ravensdfan You haven't said one thing that I disagree with.

[Dr. Kelley]

So, the question is, WHY was the defense lacking in energy and intensity? Should it matter what time zone you are in or without the comforts of home to come ready to play on game day? Being on the west coast, away from home still doesn't explain or excuse a lackluster effort. Did Pees notice a lax effort all week? If so, isn't it his job to notice mid week and get his defense back on track mentally and physically? And, if all this travel effect is real, why wasn't the offense similarly diminished in effort also? The problems may be much bigger than any factors related to staying out west.

Players take on coaches mentality.

Pees just had a press conference thinking he would save his job by throwing his players under the bus.

I'm not a brain surgeon but I would not expect any of those players to play well under him, no matter the scheme.

[Tru11]

Do some of you even have an understanding of how things actually work?

 

No coordinator in the NFL chances his scheme on a day to day basis or at all.

 

alot of you are confusing philosophy with scheme.

 

3-4 and 4-3 are about the only schemes that exist in the NFL with a couple of teams running a combination of both which is basicially called a multiple scheme.

 

rex, pagano and pees all run the 3-4.

the difference is that rex and pagano have an attacking style of play calling while pees sticks to the base more often that not.

BTW pagano defenses have been very bad with indy and rex stacked defense got torched last week by the pats.

they where far healthier then our defense was in the play offs last year but got beaten worse.

 

so yeah using them as examples to what people want seems pretty awkward to me .....

 

Austin btw runs a 4-3 scheme in detroit.

 

So can we stop suggesting to change the scheme?

We dont have the players to run a 4-3 defense.

not to mention the effort it would take make players chance positions during a season...

 

 

Also some of you dont seem to know this but the ravens like pretty much all teams hire position coaches.

When players dont use the proper technique or have issues tackling/communicating or knowing responsibilities it falls pretty much on the position coaches.

 

OC and DC over see the entire offense/defense and delegate most of the work to the position coaches to coach up their respective positions.

 

its funny to read how when elam missed a tackle he sucked and its his fault but when other players do it its Pees fault lol.

Or when elam gets beat in coverage its also his fault but when jimmy gets burned people blame Pees.

[RaineV1]

 

BTW pagano defenses have been very bad with indy

Pagano didn't put that defense together, and he's not the one calling the plays for it.

[beanfigger]

Pagano didn't put that defense together, and he's not the one calling the plays for it.

Is he in charge of anything, because the whole team has been fairly stinky this season.

[Tru11]

Pagano didn't put that defense together, and he's not the one calling the plays for it.

 

you tell me pagano had no say in who should be the DC and who the FO should draft, sign and resign?

 

im quite sure they moved to a 3-4 after he got hired lol.

they had been a 4-3 defense for ages before his arrival...

 

rex been a HC for the last couple of years and still his defenses pretty much looked and played like they used to in our time here.

 

i really doubt he is just a puppet with no power or influence at all.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Tru11

[PurpleCity5]

Pagano's defenses wasn't bad in Indy. Last season they were ranked 4th and the start of the season. We should know after-all they pancaked us at their dome defensively. It wasn't until injury's hit them that they fell off. 

 

I really feel Pagano would be a great hire, but I'm not sure if he'll want to come back and become a DC. I surely think if the opportunity presents itself, Pees might get canned for Pagano if we continue to fall downhill. 

[ravensdfan]

Do some of you even have an understanding of how things actually work?

 

No coordinator in the NFL chances his scheme on a day to day basis or at all.

 

alot of you are confusing philosophy with scheme.

 

3-4 and 4-3 are about the only schemes that exist in the NFL with a couple of teams running a combination of both which is basicially called a multiple scheme.

 

rex, pagano and pees all run the 3-4.

the difference is that rex and pagano have an attacking style of play calling while pees sticks to the base more often that not.

BTW pagano defenses have been very bad with indy and rex stacked defense got torched last week by the pats.

they where far healthier then our defense was in the play offs last year but got beaten worse.

 

so yeah using them as examples to what people want seems pretty awkward to me .....

 

Austin btw runs a 4-3 scheme in detroit.

 

So can we stop suggesting to change the scheme?

We dont have the players to run a 4-3 defense.

not to mention the effort it would take make players chance positions during a season...

 

 

Also some of you dont seem to know this but the ravens like pretty much all teams hire position coaches.

When players dont use the proper technique or have issues tackling/communicating or knowing responsibilities it falls pretty much on the position coaches.

 

OC and DC over see the entire offense/defense and delegate most of the work to the position coaches to coach up their respective positions.

 

its funny to read how when elam missed a tackle he sucked and its his fault but when other players do it its Pees fault lol.

Or when elam gets beat in coverage its also his fault but when jimmy gets burned people blame Pees.

LOL So you are blaming Rex & Pagano for those defenses when they are the HC but Pees is not accountable when he is the DC? Comical.

 

And no strictly 4-3/3-4 is the not your entire scheme. It is your base defense and is called a scheme when referring to teams and what they run. The entire defensive scheme encompasses zones/blitzes/pressures/press man etc. These things should change based on scouting of the team/QB/Offense you're playing and player strengths.

 

The fact remains the man stood up, threw his players under the bus and basically said "I ain't gotta change nuttin'. Its the players."

Edited September 27, 2015 by ravensdfan

[PurpleCity5]

Man, now that I think about it, I really do kinda miss McPhee....

[Static]

If Pees doesnt want to take blame then don't ever give him credit.

 

 

Its all the players, he just call the plays.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Static

[ravensdfan]

If Pees doesnt want to take blame then don't ever give him credit.

 

 

Its all the players, he just call the plays.

That's been going on for 3 years now with the Pees crowd.

 

When the defense plays like crap "well the players didn't execute. That isn't Pees fault!"

 

But if they have that rare good game "What do you think of Pees now huh?"

 

Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Tru11]

talking like pees ever gets credit in the first place lol

[52520Andrew]

You guys do realize that Harbaugh said the defense didn't show effort either right?

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Comes-Down-Hard-On-Defense/e5b25edb-bf9a-41ac-97dc-7b50fdeb6ce2

 

“If you look at the defensive situation of what happened on defense, … it’s not hard to figure out what happened,” Harbaugh said Monday.

“We had missed tackles. We had missed assignments. We had breakdowns in coverage. We had missed alignments. We played about as unsound as you can play in a lot of different ways.”

After most losses, Harbaugh will at least commend his players for playing hard. He didn’t even give his defense that after Sunday’s loss.

“We had effort for the most part, but I’ll even say we didn’t have the kind of effort we need to have on defense – the kind of all out, flying around effort that we expect from a Ravens defense,” Harbaugh said.

[ravensdfan]

talking like pees ever gets credit in the first place lol

Everyone gave him credit for week one. Everyone was excited about the more aggressive nature regarding the delayed blitzes etc. Then Oakland happened. Then he throws his players under the bus.

 

He also got credit for that Pitt playoff game last season. Everyone praised him. Then NE happened.

 

So you can can the Poor Poor Pees never gets any credit nonsense. It only seems that way because he rarely calls games like those two. (and yes, there were others but those are the two that stand out in memory.)

[Tru11]

You guys do realize that Harbaugh said the defense didn't show effort either right?

 

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Comes-Down-Hard-On-Defense/e5b25edb-bf9a-41ac-97dc-7b50fdeb6ce2

 

they are going to blame pees for not having the players fired up lel.

 

like its his fault jimmy got burned bad in man cov or webb falling down or both ILB not being in their designed zone lel.

 

heck its his fault players have bad technique and cant tackle or communicate properly which makes me wonder what position coaches are paid to do if this all fall on the DC as well .....

[GrimCoconut]

You guys do realize that Harbaugh said the defense didn't show effort either right?

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/John-Harbaugh-Comes-Down-Hard-On-Defense/e5b25edb-bf9a-41ac-97dc-7b50fdeb6ce2

Lol I even mentioned it myself before I heard them say anything in the vent thread. I don't know why it's so hard to see for a lot of people.

That's the Oakland game, though. You can't blame one game of poor effort from the players on the coach. A continued trend of it is a coaching issue, though.

[ravensdfan]

Lol I even mentioned it myself before I heard them say anything in the vent thread. I don't know why it's so hard to see for a lot of people.

That's the Oakland game, though. You can't blame one game of poor effort from the players on the coach. A continued trend of it is a coaching issue, though.

But the 4th quarter meltdowns are a continued trend. But we're not supposed to blame that on him either.

I might point out Harbaugh also said it would be nice to get a stop inside 2 mins for once as well.

Edited September 27, 2015 by ravensdfan

[emcdonald0]

Who's starting the petition to fire this joke of a coordinator?

[KnowNoLimits]

I've never liked Pees for the simple fact that he doesn't press receivers... Never! Ever!