The good,bad and ugly vent Browns at Ravens.

[Tru11]

Was talking about 2012

 

he was talking about 2013 lol

 

still its a huge drop going from 17th to 29th ....

[flynismo]

he was talking about 2013 lol

 

still its a huge drop going from 17th to 29th ....

 

 

I know he was; my point was in reference to not really having much talent on offense either year, hence the expectations

[Tru11]

I know he was; my point was in reference to not really having much talent on offense either year, hence the expectations

 

no way the talent dropped that much to go from 17th to 29th lol

 

also i doubt the offense we saw in the play offs was playing like the 17th best offense...

 

pretty sure most expectations where based on what we saw in the play offs.

 

heck most where putting flacco up there with montana lol

[flynismo]

no way the talent dropped that much to go from 17th to 29th lol

 

also i doubt the offense we saw in the play offs was playing like the 17th best offense...

 

pretty sure most expectations where based on what we saw in the play offs.

 

heck most where putting flacco up there with montana lol

That's pretty much my point. There was no drastic difference in talent. We had mediocre offensive talent both years. The drop in ranking is easily explainable by things such as schedule, injuries, scheme changes, etc

[Tru11]

That's pretty much my point. There was no drastic difference in talent. We had mediocre offensive talent both years. The drop in ranking is easily explainable by things such as schedule, injuries, scheme changes, etc

 

there was no scheme change lol

 

also im pretty sure injuries and such are not allowed as an excuse for the defense so why are you using them for the offense?

 

seriously whats up with these double standards lol.

[flynismo]

there was no scheme change lol

What year did Castillo come aboard?

What year was Caldwell's first year as OC and decided to "add new wrinkles to the offense"?

 

Regarding injuries and double standards, it's been spoken on quite a few times already. Don't try to imply I am a hypocrite.

[curtis0360]

Let's not sugar coat it. Mosely is awful at covering. Why is this? Is it the play calling? Scheme? Or just him?

He if fine at covering it was just a bad game. 

[Edgar]

Not really a direct indictment of Trestman. More of a general observation about how we use players. i don't think we would use duke Johnson as creatively as Cleveland if he were a raven. By creatively I mean make use of what he does best.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

no way the talent dropped that much to go from 17th to 29th lol

 

also i doubt the offense we saw in the play offs was playing like the 17th best offense...

 

pretty sure most expectations where based on what we saw in the play offs.

 

heck most where putting flacco up there with montana lol

 

For real? Ya don't think there's been a drop in talent? Let's see. The 2012 SB offense included Matt Birk, Dennis Pitta, Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones & Vonta Leach, not to mention our defense could get off the field and give the offense more TOP. C'mon! And as for your lol comment re putting Flacco up there with Montana, they operated in two totally different schemes. Montana was strictly a dink & dunk passer in the West Coast Offense mold of passer. Flacco is the Rocket Man and actually throws the ball deeper than ten yards sometimes. Oh yeah, & Montana was throwing to the likes of Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark. The only thing the two have in common is their first name.

 

Someone in an earlier post hit the nail on the head. There was a perception of talent on this team that was highly over-rated. We are reaping what we sowed --- a failure to replenish the talent pool with the right players at the skill positions. Remember, there are many talented players in the NFL but only a few gifted players on each team. AND,just like Kevin Durant is fond of saying, "Hard work defeats talent when talent doesn't work hard." You know the truth! This team is not nearly as talented as many in the local & national media were touting it to be and our players just bought into the myth. That's all! As John Wooden said, "I'll take players with a lot of talent and a little experience rather than players with a little talent and a lot of experience." That being said, you cannot understate the importance of hard work and intelligence. Lining up in the neutral zone is not intelligent. What we need is more talent, more gifted players, more hard work, smarter players, players of good character rather than players who are characters and much better coaching at all levels. After all, its a team sport and yesterday's loss was a team loss. 

[curtis0360]

Flacco is responsible for 3 TDs today and one of his biggest critics isn't roasting him right now. He was fine. Just because he's not a good fantasy QB doesn't mean he can't do this. Flacco alone is not capable of winning games. Very few QBs can. He needs a defense as football is a team sport.  If we had a defense we'd be a playoff team. 

After the denver game i said the defense is back, they looked like the d of old out there. I mean we looked scary, no way could i have envisioned us being this bad. With all this talent its very hard to accept and swallow.

[frozen joe flacco fan]

After the denver game i said the defense is back, they looked like the d of old out there. I mean we looked scary, no way could i have envisioned us being this bad. With all this talent its very hard to accept and swallow.

 

Read my lips and my earlier post re talent! We're not as talented as you and the national media supposed we were, even pre-injuries. Oh, and I left out one more very important spoke in the 2012 SB offense --- Ray Rice. So, I would suggest you research the definition of the word talented and how it differs from gifted. I'll grant you this. We have some very talented players but so do all the other NFL teams. We have only a few gifted players on this team and one of them plays QB. We need more of both, i.e., talented and gifted players. Add smart to gifted and then you've really got something.

 

AND just think, if our "talented" defense would have stopped the two-point conversion in the 2nd half, we would still have won the game. How could a receiver be any more open than he was in the end-zone? Maybe it was talent, huh? Or, then again, maybe it was a lack of talent OR it could have been Dean Pees I suppose.

[callahan09]

I agree to a point! The defense have major problems and they stink most of the time, but the problems today didn't appear until the offense stopped putting up points. They were up 21-9 then came the lull until the Browns gained the lead. Cleveland did not score 13 unanswered points without the offense getting the ball.

 

Then there is the 3 and out in OT before the defense gets on the field. This loss is on both sides, and the Browns took the game the Ravens offered to them.

 

Maybe it's because we've been spoiled by past defenses but I am surprised that in this day of new offensive friendly NFL, that some are using points scored as a justification to blame it all on defense. The team lost!

This seems like a ridiculous assessment.  You can't lay this loss equally at the feet of offense & defense.  It wasn't a loss  "on both sides."

 

Do you know what giving up "13 unanswered points is"?  It's giving up a touchdown on back to back drives when the offense doesn't score on the drive in between.  The only reason it wasn't 14 (or, as the case might have been, 15) unanswered is because they went for 2 and didn't convert.

 

We have exactly 1 drive in the span of those 13 unanswered points.  You simply can't expect the offense to score on EVERY DRIVE.

[HoldingCall]

This seems like a ridiculous assessment.  You can't lay this loss equally at the feet of offense & defense.  It wasn't a loss  "on both sides."

 

Do you know what giving up "13 unanswered points is"?  It's giving up a touchdown on back to back drives when the offense doesn't score on the drive in between.  The only reason it wasn't 14 (or, as the case might have been, 15) unanswered is because they went for 2 and didn't convert.

 

We have exactly 1 drive in the span of those 13 unanswered points.  You simply can't expect the offense to score on EVERY DRIVE.

 

I never once stated anything about EQUALLY BLAMED, and I do not believe that it's equal. I think the misunderstanding is that many responding to my post are looking at why the team lost, while I am looking for multiple ways the game could have been won and causes it didn't happen. I should have made myself more clear.

 

The offense did a decent job considering. But there were other missed opportunities, too. Dare I mention a missed field goal? No blame, as I will never bad mouth Tucker and there was a penalty just prior, pushing the ball back 10 additional yards to make it a more difficult kick, but still a missed opportunity.

 

I am not on the blame-game bandwagon and don't like the word "blame." I prefer "missed opportunities." The word "blame" is usually used to express disappointment rather than express an analysis or assessment.

 

There were plays that got away. Our final drive when the Ravens couldn't punch it in and settled for a field goal for the tie (my opinion! Wrong plays were called). The overtime 3 and out. My opinion! Wrong plays were called for the situation, again.

 

The offense did enough that the team should/could have won. I also understand why, in this case, no one is saying, "The Best Defense, Is a Strong Offense." There is no one here who doesn't recognize that a stronger offense would have kept the defense off the field. However, it is not the fault of the defense that the offense lacks better weapons.

 

When looking for ways the team could have won, I cannot/will not ignore missed opportunities. The reason coaches assess the entire game is because in the end, it is listed as a team loss, not just defense, offense, or the special team.

Edited October 13, 2015 by HoldingCall

[usmccharles]

Read my lips and my earlier post re talent! We're not as talented as you and the national media supposed we were, even pre-injuries. Oh, and I left out one more very important spoke in the 2012 SB offense --- Ray Rice. So, I would suggest you research the definition of the word talented and how it differs from gifted. I'll grant you this. We have some very talented players but so do all the other NFL teams. We have only a few gifted players on this team and one of them plays QB. We need more of both, i.e., talented and gifted players. Add smart to gifted and then you've really got something.

 

 

You cant sit there and say after week one you werent excited to see our defense develope this year, we held the Broncos for 220 yards, forced an INT and sacked peyton numerous times.  I think losing suggs has made a massive difference that no one thought one player could, he simply was the last player of our iconic defense and still had that swag that put fear into qbs. 

 

Your offense can stand on the offense side of the ball though as we have no idea what we have in BP and Camp isnt even comparable to the old injury prone Amendola.  Aiken is a 3 at best.  Forsett i think is a great asset for our team, our system, by no means elite.  SSR doesnt really count since he wont be here next year.  Waller and our TE group have a huge potential, but potential is just another meaning for "havent done anything yet."  (forgot what coach said that)

[Dewy101]

Mosley was awful

Yes but Pees had him covering Taylor Gabriel and Duke Johnson man on man that isn't a good position to put him in.

[Guest]

You cant sit there and say after week one you werent excited to see our defense develope this year, we held the Broncos for 220 yards, forced an INT and sacked peyton numerous times.  I think losing suggs has made a massive difference that no one thought one player could, he simply was the last player of our iconic defense and still had that swag that put fear into qbs. 

 

Your offense can stand on the offense side of the ball though as we have no idea what we have in BP and Camp isnt even comparable to the old injury prone Amendola.  Aiken is a 3 at best.  Forsett i think is a great asset for our team, our system, by no means elite.  SSR doesnt really count since he wont be here next year.  Waller and our TE group have a huge potential, but potential is just another meaning for "havent done anything yet."  (forgot what coach said that)

I agree Charles

 

You know like that old saying "The last straw that broke the camels back".

 

Except with the Ravens it wasn't adding the straw......it was removing the straw.

 

We did have an iconic defense with Lewis, Reed, Ngata and Suggs.

 

With the loss of Suggs we lost that last link. 

 

So much effort into playing a guy that was supposedly just a little less talented at a much bigger savings. The problem is the replacements have not been just a little less talented.

 

Big Trouble.

[usmccharles]

I agree Charles

 

You know like that old saying "The last straw that broke the camels back".

 

Except with the Ravens it wasn't adding the straw......it was removing the straw.

 

We did have an iconic defense with Lewis, Reed, Ngata and Suggs.

 

With the loss of Suggs we lost that last link. 

 

So much effort into playing a guy that was supposedly just a little less talented at a much bigger savings. The problem is the replacements have not been just a little less talented.

 

Big Trouble.

And a problem with having elite guys like that at that many positions its easy to mask issues at other positions.  Now, with no elite personel on the defense side of the ball, our holes are easily exposed.   Thats why you have to draft replacements before you need them, at least two years prior to them taking over so they can learn from the person in front of them.  Thats exactly the problem with our WR situation: we waited till Torrey left and HAD to fill his hole

[berad]

Danny Shelton is a dirty player and was trying to hurt guys after the play. Won't be surprised when he gets fined, he had two personal fouls. Also got benched for getting dominated.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Smh @ 'fire ozzie' convos. We are having one bad season out of the past 12yrs.

Seriously go join the redskins. They love changing things out of whim every season.

[-Truth-]

Danny Shelton is a dirty player and was trying to hurt guys after the play. Won't be surprised when he gets fined, he had two personal fouls. Also got benched for getting dominated.

Definitely a dirty play. I haven't seen a player contort another's leg to such a degree since Vontaze Burfict twisted Can Newton's nearly a year ago. This type of behavior has no business rearing its head at any level of the sport. That being said, are you sure he was benched for his play between the whistles? I thought he gave us some trouble and was responsible for several TFLs.

Edited October 13, 2015 by -Truth-

[berad]

Definitely a dirty play. I haven't seen a player contort another's leg to such a degree since Vontaze Burfict twisted Can Newton's nearly a year ago. This type of behavior has no business rearing its head at any level of the sport. That being said, are you sure he was benched for his play between the whistles? I thought he gave us some trouble and was responsible for several TFLs.

I saw KO pancake him combined with the dirty plays and thought the coaches pulled him. He definitely wasn't on the field late in the game, I was assuming (you know what that means lol).

[-Truth-]

I saw KO pancake him combined with the dirty plays and thought the coaches pulled him. He definitely wasn't on the field late in the game, I was assuming (you know what that means lol).

lol I've been there many a times so I know exactly what it means. I'm glad that his day wasn't all sunshine and rainbows then. I didn't see the pancake and am happy to hear about it. I didn't see him directly after the penalty so I assume they took him off the field for competing with Jason Babin for most needless penalties.

[Radinho84]

Times have changed.  30 points ain't 30 points anymore.

 

But the pattern of inability to hold a team late has reared its Head.

 

We got monumental problems and big problems require drastic solutions.

 

Newsome

Nah. Ozzy is not our Problem. He was the hero when he signed Doom for cheap and brought in Steve.

He is trying to fix it every week but it feels like everybody is going down...

 

It is sad to see max struggling and our Young Receivers not taking the big chances they are given lately...

[52520Andrew]

We should make people run laps or something for each penalty they commit, so many penalties from the team this year. We have a hard enough time winning games with the players we have and we make it harder on ourselves.

[Moderator 3]

We should make people run laps or something for each penalty they commit, so many penalties from the team this year. We have a hard enough time winning games with the players we have and we make it harder on ourselves.

Or even better: if you make two stupid ones in one game, you're fired.

[Tru11]

We should make people run laps or something for each penalty they commit, so many penalties from the team this year. We have a hard enough time winning games with the players we have and we make it harder on ourselves.

 

sounds good to me but neither trestman nor pees look like the type of coaches to do this.

 

so it would probably have to come from the position coaches or harbough.

[-Truth-]

Or even better: if you make two stupid ones in one game, you're fired.

Looks like we followed suit on your suggestion with regards to Jason Babin.

[jimmypowder]

Nah. Ozzy is not our Problem. He was the hero when he signed Doom for cheap and brought in Steve.

He is trying to fix it every week but it feels like everybody is going down...

 

It is sad to see max struggling and our Young Receivers not taking the big chances they are given lately...

He got lucky with Doom and faxgate. Bringing in Steve was great but many of the free agent signings 

havent worked out too well 

We have no talent at wide receiver. Period. Hopefully Waller can become somebody buy the jury is out 

on him and Perriman . 

[GrimCoconut]

We should make people run laps or something for each penalty they commit, so many penalties from the team this year. We have a hard enough time winning games with the players we have and we make it harder on ourselves.

I think if you (the team, I mean) fine the players for stupid game-costing penalties, then that could change some things. You don't want to do too much, though, because we desperately need that attitude on defense. There's a fine line between penalty magnet & motivator. 

[52520Andrew]

I think if you (the team, I mean) fine the players for stupid game-costing penalties, then that could change some things. You don't want to do too much, though, because we desperately need that attitude on defense. There's a fine line between penalty magnet & motivator.

Yeah for sure but there have been some really stupid penalties that have really hurt us at critical times along with there just being a ton of penalties.