[News] Eisenberg: If Ravens Don't Run, They Don't Win

[Fastynart]

Every team in the NFL needs to "run the ball to succeed". Even Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers don't throw the ball 50 times a game. Any team with no running game is not going to make it. Injuries or not, no matter who the receivers are, running is still important.

[balfan23]

Every team in the NFL needs to "run the ball to succeed". Even Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers don't throw the ball 50 times a game. Any team with no running game is not going to make it. Injuries or not, no matter who the receivers are, running is still important.

Clearly, it is much more critical for some teams than for others. It is more important to us than for a lot of teams and it has been that way through our history. With the state of our WR corps, it is more critical than before.

 

I think that is what the article is trying to say. 

[757RavensFan]

Want to know why the Seahawks has 24 Undrafted players? They have 8 players over $7 million on this year's cap hit, 13 players over $4 million cap hit (Ravens have 6 players over $4 million), Seahawks have around 2/3rds of their salary tied to top 13 players, leaving only 1/3rds salary cap to remaining 40 plus players. The Seahawks has least cap space in NFL at a little over $629,000. They need cheap undrafted players to fill out roster to stay below cap. They have 27 players below $700,000 out of desperation to fill out roster. Ravens offense passing is ranked 11, Seahawks 27. Ravens scores more than Seahawks 23.2 - 21.8. Ravens total offense is ranked 16, Seahawks 19. Ravens total defense is ranked 20 and Seahawks 31. We got hit with injuries at WR, if that happened to Seahawks, they would not be able to handle it as good as the Ravens. I think I will leave it to Ozzie. 

 

I "think" the point he was trying to make is, with all of their undrafted players, they're still very competitive.  

I took it as a compliment for Seattle's; GM, scouts and coaches to find all these diamonds in the rough

and make them a competent and competitive football team.  Which makes you wonder if SEA can find

so many talented undrafted players, why can't we find a talented late round/undrafted WR??

[reed20fence]

"It's a bit of a mystery why the running game stumbled to start the season, but it seemed to find its footing."

Seriously? Here are some names to help lift the cloud of mystery: Demarcus Ware, Von Miller, Domata Peko, Carlos Dunlap, Geno Atkins, AJ Hawk, Vontaze Burfict, Khalil Mack, Justin Tuck, Aldon Smith etc.

The Steelers defense played well here and there but besides Timmons their cadre of young Linebackers lapsed in lane discipline and left cutback options wide open on way too many plays.

Our line and RBs did a great job, no doubt. But the tape doesn't lie. We've played some really tough defenses so far. I suspect with time the run game will get better, but that doesn't change the fact that while it was trying to get its footing we weren't matched against ideal competition that affords you time to hit your groove.

Edited October 6, 2015 by reed20fence

[steelcityraven]

THe offense develops a little slower then the defense... that has always been the case... Trestman is a new coach and has added another new system. We new this wouldn't completely click from day 1. We should be excited that the team is putting up 20 and 30 points in most games this season. When the running game and the passing game both start to click we should see this offense look good. Part of that is getting healthy and getting the most out of the weapons that we can deploy. Remember that even with Kubiack... we had some horrible games offensively (and were inconsistent at best). Trestman has the offense producing points. Is there some inconsistency still? YES... is there times when we stall? YES but we have played some very good defenses in the first quarter of the season under a new coach and new system and minus some of our biggest weapons (and OL) - I think Trestman has this moving in the right direction!

[RavensFootballFan]

I "think" the point he was trying to make is, with all of their undrafted players, they're still very competitive.  

I took it as a compliment for Seattle's; GM, scouts and coaches to find all these diamonds in the rough

and make them a competent and competitive football team.  Which makes you wonder if SEA can find

so many talented undrafted players, why can't we find a talented late round/undrafted WR??

 

 

I understand what his point was. Seattle has only 1 top 50 receiver in total yards by receivers, Jermaine Kearse at #36, he would drop out of top 50 if not for the 50 yd pass he caught last night. Seattle was lucky not to be 1 - 3 after last night's C.Johnson fumble and missed/ignored call of ball batted out of bounds. Stat wise, the Ravens are better so the compliment goes to Ozzie and Ravens scouts/coaches. Seattle had no choice but to get undrafted players because of cap limit. If Ozzie signed 13 players on 2/3rds of cap space, I am sure we would see a boatload of undrafted players. It was not finding diamonds in the rough but rather finding players who would play for less than $700,000 a year after paying big money to 13 players. 

[NCMan]

Completely dependent on the team you are playing and game situation...

 

Against Cleveland, spreading out their defense and throwing the ball around the field would probably be one of the worst decisions from a gameplan perspective we could make, given its our weakest area and by far their strongest area.

I think I kind of understand why you say that, given the players both teams have, but I have to respectfully disagree. If we don't spread them out, it's going to be a very long day for our RB's and Average Joe. Guess we'll see.

[LunarRover]

I would really like to see more snaps and carries with Buck Allen. I like Forsett but given the stature of our line, especially with Monroe (still out?)that Allen is more suitable for production via Run Game. The holes provided by our Oline are slimmer than normal, and i think the bigger bodied Allen is more suitable. Im not necessarily saying that Allen is the named starter, but we have a 3-headed monster on the team, lets use it more and keep Defenses on their toes or backs with them

[RavensBaltimore]

Completely dependent on the team you are playing and game situation...

 

1. Against Denver, we were completely unsuccessful moving the ball via pass or run, due to a combination of us having a well below average offense and them having a great defense. To say that we moved the ball well at the end of the game when we spread it out is the right approach doesn't make sense, largely because Denver was playing a defense that allowed us to complete a lot of the passes we did. 

1. Against Denver, we actually were successful when throwing on first down, all throughout the game. We just didn't do it enough. The pass game struggled because we were running on 1st down and getting into 2nd and 3rd and long, obvious passing situations. Even before the 2 min drive at the end, Flacco was 5/5 on first down attempts(not including the one play drive at the end of the half), with 4 of those completions leading to a first down conversion on 2nd or 3rd and short. The only reason Denver played a different defense that "allowed us to complete passes" at the end was because we forced them to by spreading them out. They didn't sit back in a soft zone or stop coming after Joe at all. It was the same defense they would have played throughout the game if we had spread them out more.

2. We were able to throw the ball against Oakland because everybody throws the ball against Oakland.

 

For the most part, we don't have the personnel capable of spreading out a defense and attacking them very often. That's due to a compilation of inconsistent pass blocking and receivers who aren't great at separating.

Oakland has a bad defense, but Cinci doesn't, and our personnel was certainly capable of spreading them out and lighting them up in the second half, after struggling to get the run game going in the first half. That was against the same defense in the same game, but one strategy worked and one didn't.

 

 

Against Cleveland, spreading out their defense and throwing the ball around the field would probably be one of the worst decisions from a gameplan perspective we could make, given its our weakest area and by far their strongest area.

That may be true with all the injuries we have, as I acknowledged in my original post. But when our offense is healthy, we have moved the ball better and scored more points by spreading it out and passing first, and it's been that way for a while. Over the past few years, when you take out our 4th qtr clock milking runs, which create the illusion that we need to run the ball more to win, we have been pass heavy in just about every one of our games when we score more than the season average. I even posted the stats to prove that on here last year. The game plan should be altered based on the circumstances, so relying on the run game this Sunday is probably a good idea, but overall, we have spent many years wasting possessions trying to fit a "ground and pound" mold, and it's been holding us back. We've torched many good defenses, especially in the playoffs, by spreading them out.

[ReginaldColeman1]

Perhaps out of game context but in the single win thus far Joe passed 33 times. In three losses he threw 126 times. In wins they ran 39 times this year. In losses they totaled 66 rushes.

[NCMan]

 

 

Against Cleveland, spreading out their defense and throwing the ball around the field would probably be one of the worst decisions from a gameplan perspective we could make, given its our weakest area and by far their strongest area.

I guess San Diego missed the memo. Rivers went 23/38 for 358 yards, throwing to eight different receivers. I know, I know.....different personnel. I guess our Offense is just that much more inferior than San Diego's? Again....guess we'll see.

[BajanRaven]

RavensBaltimore, that is an excellent post, and I couldn't agree with you more. I get really tired of the run, run, pass sequence, when the third down play is a must-pass, usually on 3rd and long, and everybody knows you have to pass. Passing on first down is a good way to prevent the loading up of the box because, well, we always run on first down. When we mix up the pass and run on first down, we succeed better.

[Drew P]

Want to know why the Seahawks has 24 Undrafted players? They have 8 players over $7 million on this year's cap hit, 13 players over $4 million cap hit (Ravens have 6 players over $4 million), Seahawks have around 2/3rds of their salary tied to top 13 players, leaving only 1/3rds salary cap to remaining 40 plus players. The Seahawks has least cap space in NFL at a little over $629,000. They need cheap undrafted players to fill out roster to stay below cap. They have 27 players below $700,000 out of desperation to fill out roster. Ravens offense passing is ranked 11, Seahawks 27. Ravens scores more than Seahawks 23.2 - 21.8. Ravens total offense is ranked 16, Seahawks 19. Ravens total defense is ranked 20 and Seahawks 31. We got hit with injuries at WR, if that happened to Seahawks, they would not be able to handle it as good as the Ravens. I think I will leave it to Ozzie. 

 

They don't need stud WR's in that division to win. The NFC west is QB challenged. Hell, if you put up 6 PTS against SF the game is over.

[AsianRice]

We have to be able to adjust in game offensively; spread them out when they stack and pound them when they sitting in zone. Lots of good defense now a day are playing with cover 1 defense, so we need our players to step up and beat on one on one match up. We need to dictate our own offense instead of being forced to play the offense that our opponent want us to play so we need to beat our own guys on one on one match up. Same thing for the O-line, they need to beat their players.

[Puntit]

Whether we plan to run the ball a lot against Cleveland, I think its not bad strategy for the Raven to tell everyone who asks that they plan to run the ball over Cleveland this week. Let them spend a disproportionate amount of time preparing for that -- it will make the passes to Brown and Aiken more effective if we go that route.

Honestly, a couple of dozen ten yard passes to tight ends and juice with a lot of hammering of their smaller corners by these guys should open things up. We don't have speed but we actually have some decent size mismatches we can exploit in traffic, and if guys are only going 10 yards a play Flacco can get rid of the ball faster and feel less pressure.

But what do I know.

[Purple Dawg 96]

"IF the Ravens don't run they don't win" and this has to change if Joe cares about "Elite" status! But in the last Super Bowl they played in they slung that rock so much they turned the power off! I want to see the pass with some pump fakes and double moves so Marlon can get going, Kamar getting hot so let's get Marlon going post patterns stop n go's because he has size and speed! The run game isn't going anywhere is never has!

[Purple Dawg 96]

When I say the run game isn't going anywhere I mean it's always available but the pass is needed I don't care what anyone says nuthin but "GUNSLINGERS" in the playoffs!

[RavensFootballFan]

They don't need stud WR's in that division to win. The NFC west is QB challenged. Hell, if you put up 6 PTS against SF the game is over.

 

That's true. lol 

[sami]

All good points. However, it will probably take a balanced approach to win this game, as with most. That, of course, means our TE's as well as the RB's all need to carry the load. It's when we become one dimensional and/or too predictable in our play calling(?) that a certain part of our game plan falters. In addition to that, in my opinion, we need to be able to keep adjusting to what Defenses are doing to slow us down. The Browns always seem to play us tough and, most likely, this game will be no different. Let's get a big and much needed "W" and stay healthy!!

I agree with you 100% NCman. I was just targeting the WRs in my comment.

[RavenzOz]

Here's a thought that might give hope:

If you exclude the results from games with us

 

The opponents from our first four games are 9 and 3

The opponents for our remaining twelve games are 20 and 26

 

Try not to think about our injuries, we are Ravens, and it's next man up, notice our pass-rush starting to gel? .... yeah.

Edited October 7, 2015 by RavenzOz

[CapoRocky]

I just don't see the line pushing as hard as they did in previous years.

[flacmaster5]

The run attempts are higher for teams that win because you run the ball when you're winning or running out the clock to get a win. They're running the ball because they're winning, not winning because they're running the ball.

[Dfence4champs2052]

Said this yesterday......they need to pound the rock. Wake up OL!!!!

[HoldingCall]

"IF the Ravens don't run they don't win" and this has to change if Joe cares about "Elite" status! But in the last Super Bowl they played in they slung that rock so much they turned the power off! I want to see the pass with some pump fakes and double moves so Marlon can get going, Kamar getting hot so let's get Marlon going post patterns stop n go's because he has size and speed! The run game isn't going anywhere is never has!

 

I read your explanation in a later post to the final sentence. I was at first confused on your meaning but understand now. Ravens do need to continue working on the run game, though.

 

A couple of years ago Denver set all kinds of NFL Offensive records led by the air game and they looked unstoppable going into the Super Bowl. The rest is history!  

 

The needs for of a team (air VS ground) depends on the make up of the team, no two are alike. The Ravens cannot imitate Green bay, they must play their style of football which is having a balanced attack.

Edited October 7, 2015 by HoldingCall

[Ravens_Flock]

Yeah...............that has kind of been a thing with the Ravens, dating as far back as, oh I don't know....1998? Easily since Priest Holmes and then Jamal Lewis in 2000. That has never NOT been the case. When the Ravens can't run the ball, or abandon the run, we rarely win. We are and should always remain a run-first team. That has most especially been the case, and yet repeatedly (as in almost every season except last season) forgotten, under John Harbaugh. Problem is, Trestman is not a "run first" OC. Even though we were assured and promised over and over in the off-season that nothing would be changing from last season as far as the play style and type of plays called, it was glaringly obvious it had changed with Game 1 of the year, or hell, even in the pre-season.

[HoldingCall]

I guess San Diego missed the memo. Rivers went 23/38 for 358 yards, throwing to eight different receivers. I know, I know.....different personnel. I guess our Offense is just that much more inferior than San Diego's? Again....guess we'll see.

I believe the Ravens must play their own style of football on offense which is a balanced attack. I am not saying heavy passing will not work, just that the Ravens have a different game history than the Chargers. The Chargers did what the Chargers do. The Ravens are historically better when they establish the run.

[HoldingCall]

The run attempts are higher for teams that win because you run the ball when you're winning or running out the clock to get a win. They're running the ball because they're winning, not winning because they're running the ball.

It's more difficult to close out games successfully if running is a problem. Naturally running attempts are higher while winning because they are able to get first downs and don't have to punt the ball away (ball control).

 

Neither running nor passing ensures a win, only outscoring the opponent does that. However, ball control is a major factor though not a guaranteed way to win.

[stuckonaboat13]

i disagree , in any sport you need balance to win but this team is more about how far Flacco can carry them. If he doesnt make the plays a 100 million QB SHOULD make then this team can not be successful

[DrinkmoreBeer]

Why don't the Ravens go to two tight ends? That have the personnel for that.

[Crusader]

"The return of tackle Eugene Monroe from a concussion should help." Yea right! Key word should.