[News] Late For Work 10/5: Four Reasons Ravens Make Another WR Trade, Potential Candidates

[ravens4life86]

I would take Lockette,Royal,Roberts in a heartbeat right now over Brown.... For a late round pick... Get that done Ozzie...

Nicks is available too vet minimum

[ravens4life86]

Lets go Ozzie go get someone...plenty of options out there... Go get a WR

[ReginaldColeman1]

If u have a franchise qb whom the head coach believes in and calls him elite then this situation never should have happened. U keep going to the well it's gonna be dry. I see the expression on Joe and it says - where's my A.Brown? AJ Greene?

[riseNConquer81]

Probably don't need one either. There aren't too many big time receivers walking around with championship rings right now...

nah, cant agree with that.

James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings all have one.

Edelman, Lafell, Amendola, Gronk have one

Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks got one.

Marques Colston got one.

and I'm assuming by "walking around" you just mean active receivers, there are more than those.

If you're suggesting that people are out here regularly winning titles with a lack of talent at receiever, that's just wrong.

Seattle is an anomaly, and we all saw what happened when they tried that twice.

[RavensRegime]

Lockette is a no-brainer to me! He is a game changer. But i doubt Seattle would trade him before we play them in December. We already have the best kicker/punter in the league, so why not get one of the most exciting pr/kr players in the game that also stretch the field as a wr?

[FloridaRaven]

Same old song and dance in the Flacco era. No weapons! Imagine if Joe had the receivers these other qb's have.

[cbrook1862]

Maybe if Ozzie wasn't so cheap we would've had a YOUNG TRUE RECEIVER by now. Its done us good in the past but penny pinching only goes but so far.

[cbrook1862]

I like Roberts for the skins, he made plays all day for them in the preseason.

[rmcjacket23]

nah, cant agree with that.

James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Greg Jennings all have one.

Edelman, Lafell, Amendola, Gronk have one

Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks got one.

Marques Colston got one.

and I'm assuming by "walking around" you just mean active receivers, there are more than those.

If you're suggesting that people are out here regularly winning titles with a lack of talent at receiever, that's just wrong.

Seattle is an anomaly, and we all saw what happened when they tried that twice.

Its also interesting that most of your list are relatively lower paid WRs... why is that?

 

When I say big time WRs, two things come to mind...

 

1. The ability to completely take over a game and elevate a team to a much higher level

2. Unless they are on their rookie deal, generally paid quite well.

 

As such, there are no Calvin Johnsons/Julio Jones/AJ Green type guys on that list. There's definitely a lot of big time receivers, but there just aren't many on that list that would even be good for us right now. Five years ago? Sure, Marques Colston sounds great. Now he's like 4th on the depth chart on a team with marginal WR talent also. James Jones? Sure, as long as he brings Aaron Rodgers with him, because otherwise its just a gigantic ?.

 

I'm suggesting that people are regularly winning titles without paying $8-10M+ to a WR, which is what this fanbase is clamoring for right now, so that's essentially the going rate for "big time" WRs in the NFL who aren't rookies.

[rmcjacket23]

I like Roberts for the skins, he made plays all day for them in the preseason.

... and got benched for dropping passes in the regular season

[rmcjacket23]

Lockette is a no-brainer to me! He is a game changer. But i doubt Seattle would trade him before we play them in December. We already have the best kicker/punter in the league, so why not get one of the most exciting pr/kr players in the game that also stretch the field as a wr?

You're thinking of the wrong Lockette...

[riseNConquer81]

Its also interesting that most of your list are relatively lower paid WRs... why is that?

probably because their pay checks are completely irrelevant since their impact on the game is the topic of discussion.

 

When I say big time WRs, two things come to mind...

 

1. The ability to completely take over a game and elevate a team to a much higher level

2. Unless they are on their rookie deal, generally paid quite well.

 

As such, there are no Calvin Johnsons/Julio Jones/AJ Green type guys on that list. There's definitely a lot of big time receivers, but there just aren't many on that list that would even be good for us right now. Five years ago? Sure, Marques Colston sounds great. Now he's like 4th on the depth chart on a team with marginal WR talent also. James Jones? Sure, as long as he brings Aaron Rodgers with him, because otherwise its just a gigantic ?.

 

I'm suggesting that people are regularly winning titles without paying $8-10M+ to a WR, which is what this fanbase is clamoring for right now, so that's essentially the going rate for "big time" WRs in the NFL who aren't rookies.

you can write whatever random funky definition you'd like to suit your argument, if thats what you want to do.

in the context of the original post, "big time receiver" meant a recognizable name with greater and more reliable talent than what we have.

i highly doubt the poster you were responding to was thinking "man i hope we cant get somebody super expensive to fill our void at receiver." Pretty sure they didnt care about his paycheck as long as he could play. As a matter of fact, they were probably hoping and wishing it was as small as possible so that we could actually afford to add him to the roster. so half the definition you're proposing for the sake of argument is completely beside the OP's point to begin with.

aside from that, WHEN the aforementioned receivers were big time is irrelevant to your premise. Whether they are or not right now doesnt change the fact that they were when they received those rings.

and James Jones is not reliant on Aaron Rodgers. You're smarter than that. You know that Rodgers just happens to be the only decent quarterback he's ever woked with since he's a lifetime packer aside from his one year stint in Oakland: an organization which is only starting to get it together this season with a second year quarterback. His lack of success there is by no means an indictment on his talent and experience.

Similarly: Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Vernon Davis are all very good receivers, but as long as they play with Kaepernick, you can never tell.

Edited October 5, 2015 by riseNConquer81

[axisofeeble]

Forget everything-Go all in on Jeffery pay him a bonus to sign long term deal,secure his family's future and have Perriman a Alshon with Joe for the next three years.. Take advantage of Bear's house cleaning.

[rmcjacket23]

probably because their pay checks are completely irrelevant since their impact on the game is the topic of discussion.

 

you can write whatever random funky definition you'd like to suit your argument, if thats what you want to do.

in the context of the original post, "big time receiver" meant a recognizable name with greater and more reliable talent than what we have.

i highly doubt the poster you were responding to was thinking "man i hope we cant get somebody super expensive to fill our void at receiver." Pretty sure they didnt care about his paycheck as long as he could play. As a matter of fact, they were probably hoping and wishing it was as small as possible so that we could actually afford to add him to the roster. so half the definition you're proposing for the sake of argument is completely beside the OP's point to begin with.

aside from that, WHEN the aforementioned receivers were big time is irrelevant to your premise. Whether they are or not right now doesnt change the fact that they were when they received those rings.

and James Jones is not reliant on Aaron Rodgers. You're smarter than that. You know that Rodgers just happens to be the only decent quarterback he's ever woked with since he's a lifetime packer aside from his one year stint in Oakland: an organization which is only starting to get it together this season with a second year quarterback. His lack of success there is by no means an indictment on his talent and experience.

Similarly: Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Vernon Davis are all very good receivers, but as long as they play with Kaepernick, you can never tell.

1. Of course I'm going to define it to fit my argument... because its my argument. If we are going to blanketly throw around unbelievably subjective terms like "big time WR", then they are as wide open to be defined as they are subjective. Haven't seen a single person set up parameters for what it means to be such a player, other than yours, which I disagree with.

 

2. Given what has been discussed on this thread and the multitude of others on this topic, the most common names being thrown around on here by posters are Alshon Jeffery and Vincent Jackson, who certainly fit MY description of big time WRs. I don't see anybody saying that snagging an Eddie Royal or a Andre Roberts is the kind of "big time" WR who are going to save our season. Those are among the more realistic names, but certainly wouldn't meet mine (or probably anybodies) example of big time.

 

3. Well, I actually am not impressed with James Jones at all, and could easily make that assessment, given that basically every single piece of information would lead us in that direction. When he starts playing well for somebody not named Aaron Rodgers, then he can earn that label. He is outside the groups of 49ers you discussed, because we've seen them play with other QBs and perform well (we've seen Boldin play well with Kaepernick as well).

[January J]

... and got benched for dropping passes in the regular season

Not that I disagree but who would You suggest? Or do you not think we need to get another wr at all? Just curious , your always so busy disagreeing/ putting down other people's opinions and suggestions that I rarely hear any of your own.

Seems that everybody's either too expensive or just not any good. Although it's not too hard to upgrade over what we currently have.

Edited October 6, 2015 by January J

[rmcjacket23]

Not that I disagree but who would You suggest? Or do you not think we need to get another wr at all? Just curious , your always so busy disagreeing/ putting down other people's opinions and suggestions that I rarely hear any of your own.

Seems that everybody's either too expensive or just not any good. Although it's not too hard to upgrade over what we currently have.

Status quo mostly. These boards were flooded with people in the offseason who wanted to see the young guys like Aiken, Campanaro, Waller, etc. get more playing time. Now they get 100% of what they want.

 

Spend the season figuring out what you got, figure out who's worthy of keeping going forward, and basically tear the whole WR core down in the offseason (which was probably always likely to happen anyway). 

 

For what its worth, I don't expect Steve Smith to miss more than a game, and he may even play this weekend. If that's the case, while obviously not fully healthy, we've already added a WR this week for Campanaro's spot, so we're basically in the same WR situation we were the last several weeks. If that's the case, I don't see why now its all of the sudden a priority to sign somebody.

 

If we think SSS misses significant time, than MAYBE we look outside for somebody else. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by rmcjacket23

[Halshayeji]

I personally love Vincent Jackson but and would root for him if he becomes a raven somehow. But I'm realistic when I think of his age that's 33. Maybe a.jeffry would be a better option this year and for the future. he'd fit right in with Trestman and his O. If he prices himself out next year we get a high comp pick. If he stays we'd have him and perriman for years.

[purpledown]

the wide receiver position is a disaster, no consistent proven players. Eddie Royal would be a nice addition.

[Halshayeji]

I don't think the risk-reward outcome is good if we desperately sign/trade for another WR. By risk-reward I mean the risk of limiting cap space for the reward of a WR that will change the game in the absence of Steve Smith/Campanaro. I still think we should give Daniel Brown a shot. I mean the worst that can happen is he gets injured or doesn't perform well, then we'll just end up exactly where were at now except still with money in the bank.

That's why I think A.jeffry is a great option. He can help right away. If he likes it here and we like him maybe hel give us a home team discount. If he prices himself out we get a high comp pick next year. This year hed count 1 mil against the cap.

[jpboechat]

Torrey and Boldin do seem frustrated there, well, I wouldn't mind if they were to return to Baltimore..

[mendii]

What about Darren Waller?

[Underdogsontop!]

I think Darren Waller will get his chances this Sunday. I hope he or some wr has a good showing so we don't need to spend money or draft picks for another receiver. If we can keep our run game going we'll be ok with the receivers we got until SSS can come back. We don't have the cap space for guys like Vincent Jackson. Although I really wish Campanaro wasn't so accident prone. He'd have all the chances in the world to light it up with SSS out.....

[cobrajet]

I may be one of the few, but I think we should stand pat. Gilmore may be back for Sunday's game and Smith could be back the following week. I really like to see what Givens has to offer this Sunday, Aiken looked pretty good against Pittsburgh, and I would like to see more of Waller.

[cobrajet]

Torrey and Boldin do seem frustrated there, well, I wouldn't mind if they were to return to Baltimore..

Now that we have Givens, I would consider Boldin if San Fran would let us have him for a sixth or seventh rounder, as he was a regular target for Joe, who trusted him.

[rmcjacket23]

That's why I think A.jeffry is a great option. He can help right away. If he likes it here and we like him maybe hel give us a home team discount. If he prices himself out we get a high comp pick next year. This year hed count 1 mil against the cap.

He's a terrible option for the exact reason you just said... you can't trade for him unless you're signing him to an extension.

 

Opening bid for him would be MAYBE a 2nd round pick, and it'd like cost a first. Therefore, trading for him and then losing him in FA less than six months later means you basically swapped a high draft pick for a medium pick... so wheres the gain?

 

I don't know why fans think we are one WR away from being legitimate contenders. There is nothing you've seen on the football field in the last four games to indicate that.

 

All a moot point obviously, because there's nothing to suggest the Bears are even remotely considering shopping Jeffery.

[Ravensfansince03]

Torrey and Boldin do seem frustrated there, well, I wouldn't mind if they were to return to Baltimore..

 

They don't come cheap though. That's why they left Baltimore, for a bigger pay check.

[January J]

He's a terrible option for the exact reason you just said... you can't trade for him unless you're signing him to an extension.

Opening bid for him would be MAYBE a 2nd round pick, and it'd like cost a first. Therefore, trading for him and then losing him in FA less than six months later means you basically swapped a high draft pick for a medium pick... so wheres the gain?

I don't know why fans think we are one WR away from being legitimate contenders. There is nothing you've seen on the football field in the last four games to indicate that.

All a moot point obviously, because there's nothing to suggest the Bears are even remotely considering shopping Jeffery.

Have to disagree there, all the games we lost were lost by 6 points or less. Therefore one td catch could have potentially changed any of those outcomes. If we had lost by large deficits I would agree with you, but how many times have we seen joe drop back and just not been able to find anybody open down field? How many times have we completed passes of 30+ yards downfield? I think adding a playmaker or deep threat receiver would significantly help us. Right now we are not utilizing joes arm. Hopefully givins helps a bit, but I still think we need to make another addition. You said in a previous post that after replacing camp with givens we are basically in the same position as we were before, and why is everybody chirping over adding another receiver now. Well for one thing many people were saying we needed another receiver before the injuries. For another, we have no idea if SSS will return after Cleveland, or if he will return to previous form. He could easily take another hit in the back and go down again, and it's important we have a backup plan if our number 1 goes down. Not only that, but we also just found out that Perriman will be taking a little bit longer after he had the knee scope. We also don't know how he will hold up if/ when he gets back on the field. Therefore I think it's pretty important we make an addition, not only for this year, but for SSS s departure next year. Let's get somebody in here now to start building their rapport with joe now and get some in game work together instead of waiting until the offseason. All of these are pretty strong reasons to make an addition at the WR position, and it seems that all signs are pointing that way. I would give it one more game and see how Aiken and company produce without Steve in the mix, and if they fail to do so I would immediately make an acquisition.

Edited October 6, 2015 by January J

[riseNConquer81]

1. Of course I'm going to define it to fit my argument... because its my argument. If we are going to blanketly throw around unbelievably subjective terms like "big time WR", then they are as wide open to be defined as they are subjective. Haven't seen a single person set up parameters for what it means to be such a player, other than yours, which I disagree with.

 

2. Given what has been discussed on this thread and the multitude of others on this topic, the most common names being thrown around on here by posters are Alshon Jeffery and Vincent Jackson, who certainly fit MY description of big time WRs. I don't see anybody saying that snagging an Eddie Royal or a Andre Roberts is the kind of "big time" WR who are going to save our season. Those are among the more realistic names, but certainly wouldn't meet mine (or probably anybodies) example of big time.

 

3. Well, I actually am not impressed with James Jones at all, and could easily make that assessment, given that basically every single piece of information would lead us in that direction. When he starts playing well for somebody not named Aaron Rodgers, then he can earn that label. He is outside the groups of 49ers you discussed, because we've seen them play with other QBs and perform well (we've seen Boldin play well with Kaepernick as well).

1) so in other words: you're arguing for the sake of argument. Because no one has ever proven a point with openly and blatantly biased arguments and evidence. the reason nobody ever explicitly spells out the definition of a "big time WR" is beacuse its generally understood among the majority of fans that the greatest possible talent for the least amount of money is the formula there. You're probably the only one that missed the memo.

2) you're going to pretend that everybody is looking at Alshon and Vincent because they're expensive, and not because they're talented and can actually help. Eddie Royal and Andre Roberts arenet being discussed because they're streaky boom or bust players that might ocassionaly do good things for you under certain circumstances, but generally cant be relied on. In other words: more of what we already got.

3) What you're impressed with is irrelevant. Youre biased and serving a pointless argument. No objective evaluator looking at James Jones career would come to that absurd conclusion. Torrey has only ever played with Flacco, who is a markedly better quarterback than Kaepernick. All the quarterbacks Boldin has worked with are markedly better than Kaepernick. Davis' career has been up and down over the years, but he performed best when also paired with a quarterback markedly better than Kaepernick. NOBODY plays well for bad quarterbacks. James Jones is no exception.

 

For what its worth, I don't expect Steve Smith to miss more than a game, and he may even play this weekend. If that's the case, while obviously not fully healthy, we've already added a WR this week for Campanaro's spot, so we're basically in the same WR situation we were the last several weeks. If that's the case, I don't see why now its all of the sudden a priority to sign somebody.

If we think SSS misses significant time, than MAYBE we look outside for somebody else.

What we had was never good enough to begin with, its not a new priority.

Plus WR is a high impact position, especially the way Smith Senior plays it and especially given how much he's getting target because the rest of the corps is trash. dropping all your eggs in a basket with broken ribs and/or microfractures in his back (never did figure out which one it actually was) isnt a good idea.

Edited October 10, 2015 by riseNConquer81

[riseNConquer81]

They don't come cheap though. That's why they left Baltimore, for a bigger pay check.

Boldin got traded because Ozzie didnt want to pay him what he had already agreed to.

[rmcjacket23]

1) so in other words: you're arguing for the sake of argument. Because no one has ever proven a point with openly and blatantly biased arguments and evidence. the reason nobody ever explicitly spells out the definition of a "big time WR" is beacuse its generally understood among the majority of fans that the greatest possible talent for the least amount of money is the formula there. You're probably the only one that missed the memo.

2) you're going to pretend that everybody is looking at Alshon and Vincent because they're expensive, and not because they're talented and can actually help. Eddie Royal and Andre Roberts arenet being discussed because they're streaky boom or bust players that might ocassionaly do good things for you under certain circumstances, but generally cant be relied on. In other words: more of what we already got.

3) What you're impressed with is irrelevant. Youre biased and serving a pointless argument. No objective evaluator looking at James Jones career would come to that absurd conclusion. Torrey has only ever played with Flacco, who is a markedly better quarterback than Flacco. All the quarterbacks Boldin has worked with are markedly better than Kaepernick. Davis' career has been up and down over the years, but he performed best when also paired with a quarterback markedly better than Kaepernick. NOBODY plays well for bad quarterbacks. James Jones is no exception.

What we had was never good enough to begin with, its not a new priority.

Plus WR is a high impact position, especially the way Smith Senior plays it and especially given how much he's getting target because the rest of the corps is trash. dropping all your eggs in a basket with broken ribs and/or microfractures in his back (never did figure out which one it actually was) isnt a good idea.

1. No, in other words, if I can provide a valid definition of the same inherent subjective term (which I clearly did), then the entire concept of it being laughably "generally understood" is patently wrong.

 

2. No, I'm not pretending anything. Fans on THIS BOARD (and this board alone) are talking about Vincent Jackson and Alshon Jeffery because they are sexy. Fans love sexy, far more than they like reality. They don't care about problems like why on Earth the other team would ever want to trade that player (Jeffery's case) or how in the world we could ever afford such a player (Jackson's case). Unfortunately for them, things like salary caps, long-term future of the franchise, etc. exist, and they tend to shatter those dreams almost immediately.

 

The reason guys like Royal and Roberts aren't being discussed by fans (though they are being discussed by reporters) is, conversely, because they aren't sexy. As you implied, they are basically just JAGs, which is exactly what Chris Givens is, yet we acquired him as well. While not as talented as the above guys, they obviously fit the mold of cheaper veteran WRs who would be more likely viewed as rental players, since I doubt anybody is expecting a trade for a player we think will be here for the next five years or more.

 

3. LOL, this one should be fun...

 

Do I really have to go through the (rather lengthy of I spent time on it) list of quality receivers who performed exceptionally well with bad QBs? Even in recent memory, under your scenario, there's no way DeAndre Hopkins has 1200+ yards and 6 TDs with Ryan Mallett and Ryan Fitzpatrick... but he did. There's no way that Sammy Watkins has nearly 1000 yards and 6 TDs with EJ Manuel and Kyle Orton... but he did. And there's no way that Mike Evans posts 1000 yards and 12 TDs with Mike Glennon and whoever else the Bucs sent out there last year... but he did.

 

Not exactly revolutionary that quality receivers seem to produce just fine with poor QBs.

 

4. You're right... what we have was never good enough. Then again, the FO disagreed with that assessment, so all we're doing now is second guessing it. Its convenient for fans obviously, but also pointless. So it appears from the FO's perspective, it is essentially a new priority, because there's really no evidence to suggest it was a priority (or at least a high enough one to warrant action) three months ago. Fans might have thought it was a priority, but that's not really relevant either, given the zero impact on personnel decisions.