2016 O-Linemen thread

[KBoum]

I don't like Stanley at 6 but I gotta admit he allowed like 3 sacks in his college career. Not sure if those stats are real but thats very good

[ALPHA]

4 hours ago, KBoum said:

I don't like Stanley at 6 but I gotta admit he allowed like 3 sacks in his college career. Not sure if those stats are real but thats very good

He's a really good pass blocker, awesome punch but relies on it too much thats how Lawson was able to set him up and beat him inside. 

[GrimCoconut]

20 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Im pretty sure shaq lawson dominated stanley. He bull rushed him all game and stanley could do nothing about it. Against lsu i saw him get thrown down twice in a row when the play was over and yet he did nothing about it. Couldn't stand up for himself 

He seems lacksidasical at times and seems to have a hard time keeping his balance. Against boston college he got bull rushed and ended up on his butt at one point. 

Im not saying stanleys a bad prospect. I just see him more of a boom or bust type player. Has all the intangibles to be a great left tackle but i see him get pushed around a bit too much on tape and it worries me about his floor

No, Lawson didn't dominate Stanley. 

[Edgar]

For a guy who gets knocked for being lackadaisical,  Stanley played his butt off in that game. Often against a guy who is anything but lackadaisical in shaq Lawson.

That's a fun match up to watch and you come away impressed by both players.

[ALPHA]

On 4/10/2016 at 11:38 AM, Edgar said:

For a guy who gets knocked for being lackadaisical,  Stanley played his butt off in that game. Often against a guy who is anything but lackadaisical in shaq Lawson.

That's a fun match up to watch and you come away impressed by both players.

Stanley is an excellent pass blocker but we are a run first/low volume passing offense, and let's be honest he is not a run blocker especially not at the NFL level in a zone system. Nobody wants to see Hurst thrown into Flacco's knees again but Monroe is healthy and we already have a downgraded run blocking left side, 3 yards per carry doesn't help Flacco.

[KBoum]

Stanley is really good in pass blocking. Not good run blocking. Martin looks a lot better run blocking.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/ronnie-stanley-vs-clemson-2015/

 

take a look at 5:29. Lawson spin didn't work ?

[mc_red23]

1 hour ago, KBoum said:

Stanley is really good in pass blocking. Not good run blocking. Martin looks a lot better run blocking.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/ronnie-stanley-vs-clemson-2015/

 

take a look at 5:29. Lawson spin didn't work ?

Didn't work? He was going right past him until Stanley decided to hold onto him and draw a penalty flag.

[KBoum]

3 minutes ago, mc_red23 said:

Didn't work? He was going right past him until Stanley decided to hold onto him and draw a penalty flag.

No it another user of the board who said Stanley had a fun game blockin Lawson spin and he made it look easy all game long. So thats why I posted the video to show him Lawson had some fun too

[jazz1988]

3 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Stanley is an excellent pass blocker but we are a run first/low volume passing offense, and let's be honest he is not a run blocker especially not at the NFL level in a zone system. Nobody wants to see Hurst thrown into Flacco's knees again but Monroe is healthy and we already have a downgraded run blocking left side, 3 yards per carry doesn't help Flacco.

Marc Trestman offense has always been pass happy . I think the run first philosophy is over but I definitely still think The Ravens still want a good rushing attack

 

[Edgar]

4 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Stanley is an excellent pass blocker but we are a run first/low volume passing offense, and let's be honest he is not a run blocker especially not at the NFL level in a zone system. Nobody wants to see Hurst thrown into Flacco's knees again but Monroe is healthy and we already have a downgraded run blocking left side, 3 yards per carry doesn't help Flacco.

I've watched a lot of Stanley the last few weeks. I don't think we should gloss over the fact that he is an excellent pass blocker.

I also think he's good enough as a run blocker with upside. I don't see him bulldoze guys in the run game but he does make his blocks consistently. 

I'm not on the stump for him necessarily at six but there's little question in my mind he's received some unfair criticism around here.

This guy is often one on one on an island against the opposition's best rusher and they simply can't shake him. Lawson is the only guy I've seen give him a run for his money.

 

[GrimCoconut]

3 hours ago, KBoum said:

Stanley is really good in pass blocking. Not good run blocking. Martin looks a lot better run blocking.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/ronnie-stanley-vs-clemson-2015/

 

take a look at 5:29. Lawson spin didn't work ?

Right, and then look at 00:31 and Lawson does his spin move and gets sealed off by Stanley (who recovers) and LG Nelson together. Nobody is saying Lawson sucks or that he's a bum, but there's a lot of hate being thrown Stanley's way and it seems a bit absurd. Is he my top guy? Nope. But he is certainly not the worst.

Edited April 12, 2016 by GrimCoconut

[KBoum]

31 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Right, and then look at 00:31 and Lawson does his spin move and gets sealed off by Stanley (who recovers) and LG Nelson together. Nobody is saying Lawson sucks or that he's a bum, but there's a lot of hate being thrown Stanley's way and it seems a bit absurd. Is he my top guy? Nope. But he is certainly not the worst.

I know I've watch a few Stanley tapes. hes very good pass blocker. but I don,t think he's worth the 6th pick when the Ravens have so many needs on defense. I just wanted to anwer to the comment from another user who said :

"He  stopped Shaq Lawsons charge effortlessly  like he is a cheerleader"

 

and while I was watching that game in particular, I felt like giving Lawson a thumps up. What surprised me about Lawson is his complete game. He's pretty good agaisnt the run also. His first step isn't consistent enough I don't think he'll be the type to win constantly 1 on 1 pass rush match up so he doenst fit the mold of "playmaker" the Ravens said. but I really like Lawson. He brings a lot of element to a team. 

 

That being said, back on the subject, Stanley really impressed me when I thought he was going to lose ground or his footing he was very good to recover. But I've always have the same opinion :

Pass rush/Cornerback gotta be adressed in the first 3 rounds. ANd a couple of mid rounds O-Line that Castillo can work with

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, KBoum said:

I know I've watch a few Stanley tapes. hes very good pass blocker. but I don,t think he's worth the 6th pick when the Ravens have so many needs on defense. I just wanted to anwer to the comment from another user who said :

"He  stopped Shaq Lawsons charge effortlessly  like he is a cheerleader"

 

and while I was watching that game in particular, I felt like giving Lawson a thumps up. What surprised me about Lawson is his complete game. He's pretty good agaisnt the run also. His first step isn't consistent enough I don't think he'll be the type to win constantly 1 on 1 pass rush match up so he doenst fit the mold of "playmaker" the Ravens said. but I really like Lawson. He brings a lot of element to a team. 

 

That being said, back on the subject, Stanley really impressed me when I thought he was going to lose ground or his footing he was very good to recover. But I've always have the same opinion :

Pass rush/Cornerback gotta be adressed in the first 3 rounds. ANd a couple of mid rounds O-Line that Castillo can work with

Stanley isn't my top guy, and I am not sure I honestly have a top guy this year. Nobody really wows me at the top, that includes Ramsey & even Tunsil. I like quite a few of them, though, so hey, there is that. I do see a lot of senseless hate directed towards Stanley and I find most of it to be rather silly. Stanley did well against Lawson in that game considering how strong Lawson is and how good of a spin move he has. Lawson's spin move is excellent, but I do not like him much as a prospect because I do not know if he will be a great professional pass rusher. He reminds me a lot of Upshaw, but he actually knows how to do another move other than the bull rush. 

I agree, though--I think we will add a mid-round OL instead of an early one. 

[ellicottraven]

Now that Clady is off to the Jets via trade, our only options at LT seem to be Monroe or Stanley (if that's the route we take)...

[ALPHA]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Now that Clady is off to the Jets via trade, our only options at LT seem to be Monroe or Stanley (if that's the route we take)...

We could kick the tires on Jake Long and Will Beatty, even on the decline either would be a better backup that Hurst.

[ravensdan]

On April 12, 2016 at 9:15 PM, GrimCoconut said:

Stanley isn't my top guy, and I am not sure I honestly have a top guy this year. Nobody really wows me at the top, that includes Ramsey & even Tunsil. I like quite a few of them, though, so hey, there is that. I do see a lot of senseless hate directed towards Stanley and I find most of it to be rather silly. Stanley did well against Lawson in that game considering how strong Lawson is and how good of a spin move he has. Lawson's spin move is excellent, but I do not like him much as a prospect because I do not know if he will be a great professional pass rusher. He reminds me a lot of Upshaw, but he actually knows how to do another move other than the bull rush. 

I agree, though--I think we will add a mid-round OL instead of an early one. 

You really don't think Lawson is more explosive than Upshaw?  Idk man. I think he can and will provide way more pass rush than that. Unless I'm misinterpreting you're Comp. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 hour ago, ravensdan said:

You really don't think Lawson is more explosive than Upshaw?  Idk man. I think he can and will provide way more pass rush than that. Unless I'm misinterpreting you're Comp. 

Yeah, he's more explosive than Upshaw but that's like saying a Honda Accord can beat a Honda Civic. 

[Jaybirds]

On 4/12/2016 at 0:47 AM, ALPHA said:

We could kick the tires on Jake Long and Will Beatty, even on the decline either would be a better backup that Hurst.

Crazy alternative:  would Jensen be a better backup than Hurst?  Maybe a guard is easier to find, and move Jensen to the outside?

[ALPHA]

13 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah, he's more explosive than Upshaw but that's like saying a Honda Accord can beat a Honda Civic. 

I think it's an indication that he can shut out a power base end, personally I like how he studies his opponent over the course of the game and won't get beat the same way twice.

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, Jaybirds said:

Crazy alternative:  would Jensen be a better backup than Hurst?  Maybe a guard is easier to find, and move Jensen to the outside?

If I recall correctly, Jensen played LT in preseason last year, so I don't think it is entirely out of the question. He didn't look that bad at it, either. Then again, competition is different in PS than in the regular season when things matter. 

[ALPHA]

49 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

If I recall correctly, Jensen played LT in preseason last year, so I don't think it is entirely out of the question. He didn't look that bad at it, either. Then again, competition is different in PS than in the regular season when things matter. 

I think he was a tackle in college, in any case he offers something unlike Hurst who offers nothing.

[Jaybirds]

I was thinking maybe a guy like Cody Whitehair fixes two problems for us:  replacing KO and adding depth to tackle by moving Jensen over.  BUT that only works if Jensen has the ability and time to adjust.  It doesn't seem likely, but it makes me wonder.

[Winchester]

I finally got around to watching some of whitehair.  In my opinion he will be a better tackle than guard.  He is 6'4 and should settle in at about 305 lbs. His arms are about 33" but not a problem if a player can actually play!! He is very athletic to guard the edge. He is even more athletic than his combine display. He played at under 300 lbs but put on a fast 12-15 lbs of bad weight so he would not be labeled undersized. And it slowed him down a little. Now he can drop that bad weight and carefully and strategically bulk back up to 305lbs with  symmetrical twitchy muscle. I was impressed with his power for a sub 300 lb player. I mean he was not KO or Jensen but he got some movement off the ball. At his play weight  He may of approached a sub 7 second 3cone. He will excel blocking speed edge rushers and walking them around the qb. And He will be fine with power base ends. He could struggle with powerful defensive tackles as a guard. My opinion he has the skills and frame to play the edge very well and stand up edge speed rushers. He will not be a mauler in the run game but he will keep his guy from making a play. His skill set and frame is very similar to Jordan Gross who was a fine left tackle. Gross is slightly stronger Whitehair is slightly faster and more fluid. Whitehair could run a 4.8 40 at his play size. He put on that fast weight before senior bowl and combine to avoid undersized in his profile. He can now drop that fat and put that 12-15 lbs on of fast twitch muscle. He will be a very similar player to Jordan Gross!! Once he drops the bad weight. And puts on the muscle in an nfl training program he may even be slightly stronger and slightly more athletic  than jordan!! He may not be a long 320 lb bulldozer left tackle that makes it look easy like Tunsil Ogden Tyron and Stanley but he will shut out edge speed and keep his guy from making a play in the run game. He is very smart and very coordinated and generates movement witb hip and core strength. At a leaner stronger 302lbs He is going to be a fine lefttackle

Edited April 16, 2016 by Winchester

[Winchester]

Lawson has a repertoire of moves for a college player. He catches many college lineman not prepared. He will not have the same success in the nfl. Yes I'm saying he will be a scrub in the nfl!! Ron Stanley pretty much shut him out after half-time as he emptied his gun!! Mid round left tackle to work with??  Ok tell us who in mid rounds can protect Joe cools backside at a high level??

On 4/12/2016 at 9:11 PM, KBoum said:

I know I've watch a few Stanley tapes. hes very good pass blocker. but I don,t think he's worth the 6th pick when the Ravens have so many needs on defense. I just wanted to anwer to the comment from another user who said :

"He  stopped Shaq Lawsons charge effortlessly  like he is a cheerleader"

 

and while I was watching that game in particular, I felt like giving Lawson a thumps up. What surprised me about Lawson is his complete game. He's pretty good agaisnt the run also. His first step isn't consistent enough I don't think he'll be the type to win constantly 1 on 1 pass rush match up so he doenst fit the mold of "playmaker" the Ravens said. but I really like Lawson. He brings a lot of element to a team. 

 

That being said, back on the subject, Stanley really impressed me when I thought he was going to lose ground or his footing he was very good to recover. But I've always have the same opinion :

Pass rush/Cornerback gotta be adressed in the first 3 rounds. ANd a couple of mid rounds O-Line that Castillo can work with

 

[GrimCoconut]

9 hours ago, Winchester said:

I finally got around to watching some of whitehair.  In my opinion he will be a better tackle than guard.  He is 6'4 and should settle in at about 305 lbs. His arms are about 33" but not a problem if a player can actually play!! He is very athletic to guard the edge. He is even more athletic than his combine display. He played at under 300 lbs but put on a fast 12-15 lbs of bad weight so he would not be labeled undersized. And it slowed him down a little. Now he can drop that bad weight and carefully and strategically bulk back up to 305lbs with  symmetrical twitchy muscle. I was impressed with his power for a sub 300 lb player. I mean he was not KO or Jensen but he got some movement off the ball. At his play weight  He may of approached a sub 7 second 3cone. He will excel blocking speed edge rushers and walking them around the qb. And He will be fine with power base ends. He could struggle with powerful defensive tackles as a guard. My opinion he has the skills and frame to play the edge very well and stand up edge speed rushers. He will not be a mauler in the run game but he will keep his guy from making a play. His skill set and frame is very similar to Jordan Gross who was a fine left tackle. Gross is slightly stronger Whitehair is slightly faster and more fluid. Whitehair could run a 4.8 40 at his play size. He put on that fast weight before senior bowl and combine to avoid undersized in his profile. He can now drop that fat and put that 12-15 lbs on of fast twitch muscle. He will be a very similar player to Jordan Gross!! Once he drops the bad weight. And puts on the muscle in an nfl training program he may even be slightly stronger and slightly more athletic  than jordan!! He may not be a long 320 lb bulldozer left tackle that makes it look easy like Tunsil Ogden Tyron and Stanley but he will shut out edge speed and keep his guy from making a play in the run game. He is very smart and very coordinated and generates movement witb hip and core strength. At a leaner stronger 302lbs He is going to be a fine lefttackle

I actually like Whitehair a lot and I think he could play tackle as well. I love how he plays as an OL. He's one of my favorites.

[ALPHA]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

I actually like Whitehair a lot and I think he could play tackle as well. I love how he plays as an OL. He's one of my favorites.

He can play inside or out but I prefer him at guard, I think he's a Zack Martin clone. 

[Winchester]

If not for Tryon Smith Martin would be a left tackle. Cowboys will eventually play him at right tackle. Whitehairs athleticism and size is a fit at tackle. Could have trouble with big bod nose tackles at guard but that will not be a prob at tackle. He will not look pretty like the longer tackles but He will keep the qb clean from edge speed and his opponents will not make plays on run plays. Not quite as big or strong as Martin but more athletic than Zach martin. Once he hits an nfl training and nutrition program he will be as strong as Zack Martin. On a side note I began to watch Conklin and I'm not seeing his advertising holding up so far. I do not see the movement skills his combine suggests nor the power except for when he tossed Buckner around. He threw Ngakoue a couple times but was put on roller skates as well. I heard many weeks ago some scouts were souring on him. I'm currently waiting for a couple of his games to come through and maybe it is just a technique issue in a couple games but so far I do not see the advertising. On a different sidenote his game against Ohio state Bosa was unblockable!! If I remember correctly you can check it out on youtube. And so far i would prefer Cody Whitehair protecting joe cools backside to Conklin!! When he drops 15 lbs of fat and adds 15 lbs of muscle he will be a top10 left tackle. He plays like Jordan Gross and once he puts on some muscle to go with his core power he will throw people to the ground like Matt light did. Matt light was 6'4 305 with elite power from his torquing his midsection.  Whitehair has recently really taken to the weightroom. If he were 6'5 311 he would be a top 15 pick or better. But he will be a steal because of less than ideal measurables. But one of best tackles at snap. 

[KBoum]

On 16 avril 2016 at 1:35 AM, Winchester said:

Lawson has a repertoire of moves for a college player. He catches many college lineman not prepared. He will not have the same success in the nfl. Yes I'm saying he will be a scrub in the nfl!! Ron Stanley pretty much shut him out after half-time as he emptied his gun!! Mid round left tackle to work with??  Ok tell us who in mid rounds can protect Joe cools backside at a high level??

 

This season Monroe and you can draft a guy like Le'Raven Clark if he's there in the early 3th or early 4th. Maybe a guy like Beavers in the late 4th comp pick. Seumalo if he falls because of injuries he's a very rounded pro ready prospect imo. There's a few good prospect who needs time to develop and maybe hope for a training camp cuts somewhere.

 

My main concern right now is the secondary and pass rush. If healthy, Monroe isn't that bad. (If healthy and he hasnt been lately). But last year the defense has been a lot worse than the offense. Some teams don't have great Left Tackles and they use bubble screens, quick passes to take the pressure off.I understand this is not ideal of Castillo has an history of developing young guys well and to me, secondary and pass rusher need to be adressed in the first 3 picks. Something like that would make me happy

1- Bosa/Ramsey/Jack/Tunsil

2- Spence/Alexander/Whitehair/Spriggs

3- Fuller/Redmond/Correa/Fackrell/Cravens/Westerman/Hawkins/Clark

 

As long as the Ravens get 1 pass rusher, 1 DB in the first 3 picks, I'm ok with picking O-Line as well. Would be ideal to start Monroe at LT and let the rookie win the LG spot. IF Monroe get injured again, you swap the rookie at LT

[Winchester]

5 hours ago, KBoum said:

This season Monroe and you can draft a guy like Le'Raven Clark if he's there in the early 3th or early 4th. Maybe a guy like Beavers in the late 4th comp pick. Seumalo if he falls because of injuries he's a very rounded pro ready prospect imo. There's a few good prospect who needs time to develop and maybe hope for a training camp cuts somewhere.

 

My main concern right now is the secondary and pass rush. If healthy, Monroe isn't that bad. (If healthy and he hasnt been lately). But last year the defense has been a lot worse than the offense. Some teams don't have great Left Tackles and they use bubble screens, quick passes to take the pressure off.I understand this is not ideal of Castillo has an history of developing young guys well and to me, secondary and pass rusher need to be adressed in the first 3 picks. Something like that would make me happy

1- Bosa/Ramsey/Jack/Tunsil

2- Spence/Alexander/Whitehair/Spriggs

3- Fuller/Redmond/Correa/Fackrell/Cravens/Westerman/Hawkins/Clark

 

As long as the Ravens get 1 pass rusher, 1 DB in the first 3 picks, I'm ok with picking O-Line as well. Would be ideal to start Monroe at LT and let the rookie win the LG spot. IF Monroe get injured again, you swap the rookie at LT

This is a shallow draft. Skilled players are going to dry up pretty fast. Clark and Beaver are likely late round2 early round3 guys. Coleman is as talented as Ron Stanley/Tunsil. Just not as refined coming from the offense his team runs. I do not want a dback early. Prefer to find a very good edge rusher receiver Left tackle and 3 down ilb. I like will Davis a lot. Cornerbacks often take time to adjust. Would prefer impact at those positions and if needed trade for an established cornerback early season if ravens look like superbowl contenders after drafting impact edge rusher left tackle and physical 3down ilb. A rookie cornerback that is raw will just get roasted with ravens current rush. Dumervil is not the same. He struggled with tackles he did not struggle with several yrs ago. Suggs is turning 34. Lucky to see 10 sacks combined. Not to often I'm confident as in a corner back playing very well early like I was with Ron Darby. Like in said will Davis is verygood if he can play 16games

[GrimCoconut]

2 minutes ago, Winchester said:

This is a shallow draft. Skilled players are going to dry up pretty fast. Clark and Beaver are likely late round2 early round3 guys. Coleman is as talented as Ron Stanley/Tunsil. Just not as refined coming from the offense his team runs. I do not want a dback early. Prefer to find a very good edge rusher receiver Left tackle and 3 down ilb. I like will Davis a lot. Cornerbacks often take time to adjust. Would prefer impact at those positions and if needed trade for an established cornerback early season if ravens look like superbowl contenders after drafting impact edge rusher left tackle and physical 3down ilb. A rookie cornerback that is raw will just get roasted with ravens current rush. Dumervil is not the same. He struggled with tackles he did not struggle with several yrs ago. Suggs is turning 34. Lucky to see 10 sacks combined. Not to often I'm confident as in a corner back playing very well early like I was with Ron Darby. Like in said will Davis is verygood if he can play 16games

You're right that rookie CBs tend to take time to develop, but I think I'd bet anything immaterial here that we take a CB with one of our first three picks.