[News] Late For Work 9/30: Don't Get Hopes Up For Alshon Jeffery, Matt Forte Trades

[Minionhunter]

Its a PCL. Remember Hensley's tweet. PCL ~8 weeks, and if he tweaked it Sunday, likely longer.

[gtalk12]

Jeffrey if healthy would make such a difference. easily a top talent in the league. he was unstoppable with Marc T and Mccown

[Minionhunter]

@rcmcjacket - I can buy that but I listened to him lay this out on 98.5 yesterday and there was no consideration of any counter points to his article, just hammering on Joe. His topic is fair to bring up, but there are counter points to it he purposefully leaves out, some of which Sara brought up here. He is not one of the worst, ie Field Yates, but readers unfamiliar with him should know his affiliation since he comes off as a neutral national reporter.

[jravens13]

Cool, but every year we know veteran FAs are available, and most years we pass on most of them. There's a reason for that, and its not because the FO has no clue what they are doing, which is sort of the route a lot of fans are going with here.

 

I can say with a high level of certainty that the overall majority of posters on these boards had very little or ZERO interest in us obtaining any of the players you listed 2-3 months ago. While I wasn't in the camp of people expecting Kamar Aiken and Marlon Brown to be stars and thought we needed to upgrade on them, having two older veterans as your top two guys when neither will be here for more than a year is a band aid on a broken bone.

 

We know NOW that Aiken and Brown aren't likely to step into major roles, and thus, mostly due to the Perriman injury, we're in a bind. But can you imagine the utter chaos that would ensue on these boards if we brought in a Kenny Britt, cut a Marlon Brown because of it (a very realistic scenario) and he goes and puts up 800-900 yards and a bunch of TDs on a different offense?

 

I can guarantee you, regardless of what Kenny Britt did as a Raven, nobody would care. The only narrative that would be on these boards is how we let a young guy go to a different team and he is tearing it up.

 

I can honestly say I've never once looked a veteran FA playing elsewhere and said "gee, we missed out on that guy".

 

Plus, lets be honest with ourselves... if Perriman didn't get injured in training camp, we may never even be having this conversation.

We would still be relying on unproven guys to play WR3 and have no one to replace Smith when he retires. All of the guys I mentioned would be upgrades at an affordable price. Never once did I mention Kenny Britt, and I think he has proven that he can't be relied on, unlike the guys I did mention.

 

Do you honestly think Kamar Aiken, who bounced around the league, and Marlon Brown, who has never stepped up past what we saw in his rookie year will develop into stars? I would rather have a cheap proven vet with gas left in the tank at WR 2. 

[roamingcharges]

For a second I thought Erik Bedard was calling out Baltimore's favorite son. I was about to scream HYPOCRITE when I realized it was another underachieving surly character. I guess there's something to the last name.

[steelcityraven]

KO and a 6th round draft pick for Alshon. I love KO but we are going to lose him at the end of season and get nothing in return. We will have a full allotment of comp picks and will not miss a 5th or 6th rounder. I love KO and wish there was a way that we cold keep both him and Yanda but that doesn't seem possible. We have Urschel who played well at G last year and Jensen still as added depth. At the end of season Steve Smith will be retiring and we will need to make an investment in finding at least one more WR... this move would go a long way to addressing problems this year and possibly next year and down the road. Plus KO would be an attractive addition to any team building for the future. He has pro bowl potential and can protect a franchise QB... he is versatile and can play both G or T (he has the size also). He can be a road grader in the run game for their young RB draft pick in Jeremy Langford. This really could be a good move and a doable one! Both teams would win in this trade!

[RavensFootballFan]

1. You basically just agreed me, since you referenced precisely nothing that the Ravens gain from it. You referenced what YOU gain from it, but this isn't about you.

 

2. Do I need to list the lengthy number of teams in this league who are more secretive about their injuries than the Ravens are? What, do you think they all just do this to make fans unhappy? They don't want their opponents to know any more information about the health of their players than is necessary to fill the NFL's policy.

 

I, for one, wouldn't care if the NFL went to an NHL type classification for injuries. There's two classifications... upper body injury and lower body injury. That's it.

 

Lets call this what it really is... the reason fans want the knowledge is to make themselves feel better. That's it. If it were actually just a bone bruise (which I don't think anybody is buying that), then this board's would be flooded with people claiming that Perriman is soft, damaged goods, etc. (which there already is) for missing over two months with a bone bruise. 

 

Same logic applies if its a much more significant injury than people think it is... all the sudden all the fake medical professionals who have access to the internet will be here telling us their non-clinical diagnosis and explaining how long he will be out.

 

If you've been patient so far, then there's no reason you can't continue to be patient. When he's ready to play, he will play. Might be next week, might be next year. Doesn't matter. I leave those decisions up to the people who are actually qualified to make them.

 

Where did I agree with you? I am a fan, what is wrong with wanting to know more information? Many Ravens fans are at a lost of fully understanding on what is going on because fans don't have much to rely on as we usually do. More information helps our mindset. Is it still a bone bruise that has not healed completely? Ok then, that's understandable but we were not told that. Is the recent injury a PCL that some say? There is nothing official from the team. It drives fans crazy and for the first time, I ask for details since Perriman was first hurt. Is it an outer bone bruise which can heal within weeks? if it is an inner layer of bone bruise, it takes several months to heal because the inner layer of bone takes longer to heal than the outer layer of bone. If fans were told it is inner bone bruise, then we will have gained knowledge and act accordingly. I don't see what Ravens gain by keeping it on low profile is all. It is human nature to want to know as a fan is all. No one is going to get assassinated over fans having a better understanding, this isn't NSA, it's the NFL.  

Edited September 30, 2015 by RavensFootballFan

[runcontrol]

Its a PCL. Remember Hensley's tweet. PCL ~8 weeks, and if he tweaked it Sunday, likely longer.

 

Exactly.   I don't know why people are trying to make it a bigger deal than that. 

[thisme007]

This 0-3 starts with the Coaching,and Some Changing need to happen in that department.. Playoffs?

Edited September 30, 2015 by thisme007

[RavensFootballFan]

Minionhunter, on 30 Sept 2015 - 1:15 PM, said:

Its a PCL. Remember Hensley's tweet. PCL ~8 weeks, and if he tweaked it Sunday, likely longer.

 

 

Exactly.   I don't know why people are trying to make it a bigger deal than that. 

 

Because it came from Jamison Hensley, a reporter from ESPN, he is not an official member of the team. The team never said anything officially about PCL. The Ravens have not changed their stance since July. Fans gives more weight from officials associated with the team than from a reporter. The Ravens have not acknowledge whether his tweet is true or not.  

Edited September 30, 2015 by RavensFootballFan

[balfan23]

Because it came from Jamison Hensley, a reporter from ESPN, he is not an official member of the team. The team never said anything officially about PCL. The Ravens have not changed their stance since July. Fans gives more weight from officials associated with the team than from a reporter. The Ravens have not acknowledge whether his tweet is true or not.  

 

Exactly ... the team has never said anything officially about anything period related to the injury. So what is going to happen when you are unwilling to provide information? People are going to speculate. 

 

I can say this - I can't remember when I've last seen an injury shrouded in such mystery.

 

I'm over it ... wake me when he's ready to play. But if the organization has no diagnosis from medical staff (how is that possible?) or is only capable of saying "I'm not a doctor ... .there is no timetable", it should come as no surprise that analysts will talk and fans are going to get frustrated. 

[RavensFootballFan]

But its not really important that you see what they gain... its important that THEY see what they gain... because their gain is the same as your gain.

 

If there's one thing anybody would agree with on these boards, is that more knowledge very, very, very rarely leads to "acting accordingly". It generally leads to more questions, followed by more accusations/rumors/speculation, followed by posts and posts and posts of things that are the opposite of knowledge.

 

In general, the less fans know on these boards about these kinds of things, the better.

 

I respectfully disagree, when Suggs was injured before/now and understood what it was. Fans let it go till he came back. Same thing with Ray Lewis and several other injuries. I don't see fans flipping out over Gilmore being injured because they know exactly what type of injury he has. Even Urban, Rashaan, Elam, Canty And Monroe's injuries are "let go" till they are healed because they know exactly what type of injury it is, which makes it easier to know the ballpark figure of when those players will return. With Perriman, it has gone beyond the norm of a bone bruise and raises our curiosity. There are a few things that arouses fans curiosities on injuries, when a player will be back, how often a player is hurt and on lack of understandable knowledge of what is going on and wanting more info. It is rare that fans do not fully understand a player's injury and that is why there is more voice for information to understand it better. 

[steelraven]

The Ravens should have the most money in the NFL of any team, I don't see any player on this team worth paying top dollar to, with the exception of Steve Smith, Joe Flacco and CJ Mosley. The Ravens have been duped and hoodwinked by most of these players. Players they should be keeping they ship off and the ones they keep should be the ones they ship off.

[RavensFootballFan]

Exactly ... the team has never said anything officially about anything period related to the injury. So what is going to happen when you are unwilling to provide information? People are going to speculate. 

 

I can say this - I can't remember when I've last seen an injury shrouded in such mystery.

 

I'm over it ... wake me when he's ready to play. But if the organization has no diagnosis from medical staff (how is that possible?) or is only capable of saying "I'm not a doctor ... .there is no timetable", it should come as no surprise that analysts will talk and fans are going to get frustrated. 

 

I agree. I been a Baltimore sports fan for 50 years (Since I was 5, that's as far back as I can remember lol) and I am with you, I never seen a sports injury so mysterious too. 

 

But if the organization has no diagnosis from medical staff (how is that possible?) .... I agree, one of strangest thing I ever seen in NFL. 

[BmoreB]

Cool, and at the end of the day, what either one of us feels about the situation is completely irrelevant, because the organization doesn't care how we feel about it.

 

They share the information with us that they want to share with us, and that's it.

Actually that's where you're wrong, it's called PR. They absolutely care and as a matter of fact they make a lot decisions based upon the fan base and how we feel about things.

[BmoreB]

Cool, and at the end of the day, what either one of us feels about the situation is completely irrelevant, because the organization doesn't care how we feel about it.

 

They share the information with us that they want to share with us, and that's it.

p.s. I threw in a bonus comment under the Campanaro story for you

[Minionhunter]

 

Minionhunter, on 30 Sept 2015 - 1:15 PM, said:

Its a PCL. Remember Hensley's tweet. PCL ~8 weeks, and if he tweaked it Sunday, likely longer.

 

 

 

Because it came from Jamison Hensley, a reporter from ESPN, he is not an official member of the team. The team never said anything officially about PCL. The Ravens have not changed their stance since July. Fans gives more weight from officials associated with the team than from a reporter. The Ravens have not acknowledge whether his tweet is true or not.  

 

Hensley tweeted that from Ravens-Eagles practice. At the time I thought it was a weird tweet, but maybe the team released that info throuh Hensley. I'm of the opinion that the team conceals as much info as allowed to try to gain a competative advantage (just like all other teams). Go back and read Eisenberg's column last year on this and how it is related to gambling. I think it came right after we beat the stealers by making them think that Owen Daniles was not going to play and then he did and played a big role (even though Gillmore caught the TD in that game [i think it was that game]). I'm OK with what they are doing. I'm with BalFan on Perriman, he's a rookie, yes it would be great to have him out there and it is hurting the system not to have him, but he is hurt and can't play so cowboy up and someone else needs to go make some plays.

 

Having said that FF players might want to consider Maxx as a speculative add if your TE sucks or you had Gilmore and you didn't get Clay this morning on waivers. If you are really outside the box, take Boyle. It seems to me like one of those two will put up a TD or two. My guess is the point spread tomorrow will be similar to the Raiders game, hopefully if we put up 30+ we can make it stand up this time.

[runcontrol]

Why would Chicago do that deal?

 

If they don't plan on resigning him in the offseason they are basically getting something for nothing.  You don't see it too much in football, but you will see a lot of baseball teams trade away players that they don't think they will resign.  Chicago needs to rebuild and if Jeffery isn't in their plans they might as well get something out of him by trading him away.   If they are going to trade him its going to come down to who is offering the best deal,

 

Personally, I can't see giving away two draft picks with 12 weeks left in a contract.  

[drillem]

Emphasis on defense hasn't been the complete answer lately. We got to chop dead wood off the team and get receivers who can get open and catch the ball. We only got one receiver and he's due to retire and the end of the season. Next year will only be worse than this one due to lack of planning ahead of time. Wake up in the front office and make some moves to re-align the teams direction. Go after (and keep) wr talent. Stop axing players like Boldin, Torrey and Jones.

[RavensFootballFan]

Hensley tweeted that from Ravens-Eagles practice. At the time I thought it was a weird tweet, but maybe the team released that info throuh Hensley. I'm of the opinion that the team conceals as much info as allowed to try to gain a competative advantage (just like all other teams). Go back and read Eisenberg's column last year on this and how it is related to gambling. I think it came right after we beat the stealers by making them think that Owen Daniles was not going to play and then he did and played a big role (even though Gillmore caught the TD in that game [i think it was that game]). I'm OK with what they are doing. I'm with BalFan on Perriman, he's a rookie, yes it would be great to have him out there and it is hurting the system not to have him, but he is hurt and can't play so cowboy up and someone else needs to go make some plays.

 

Having said that FF players might want to consider Maxx as a speculative add if your TE sucks or you had Gilmore and you didn't get Clay this morning on waivers. If you are really outside the box, take Boyle. It seems to me like one of those two will put up a TD or two. My guess is the point spread tomorrow will be similar to the Raiders game, hopefully if we put up 30+ we can make it stand up this time.

 

I understand your point. A competitive advantage to me is teams making the injury look worse than it really is to throw teams off at game time (Team reports a player is less than 100% but is actually at 100%) or a team making the injury report less than it really is so a player is used as a decoy (Teams report players is close to 100% but actually at 70-90%). Big time gamblers don't rely on the media like amateur gamblers do because the professional gambler knows injury reports are not 100% accurate. Professional gamblers and the casinos have ways of getting inside information through bribery so it does not matter what is reported by teams or not. A casino may have better inside information than gamblers because they have more money to pay bribes for inside information. That is how casinos beats gamblers and once in awhile vice versa. Since both sides gets the same public report so it does not matter what is reported publicly, it is who has the best inside information that will win most bets. I don't see how whether Perriman has an inside bone bruise or outside bone bruise is going to make any difference because he is not playing. Intelligent people/teams/gamblers/casinos will realize it is likely not just an outside bone bruise alone because of how long this is taking, keeping it on a low profile is a moot point because people will figure it out. All that matters is when Perriman finally puts on Ravens uniform, is he 100% or not? Everything that happens before that will not mattered because teams will take aim at Perriman even if he has never been injured and gamblers/casinos will rely on current information on which players are at 100% or not come game day no matter the previous injuries as players heals from injuries and become 100%. 

[runcontrol]

 

Minionhunter, on 30 Sept 2015 - 1:15 PM, said:

Its a PCL. Remember Hensley's tweet. PCL ~8 weeks, and if he tweaked it Sunday, likely longer.

 

 

 

Because it came from Jamison Hensley, a reporter from ESPN, he is not an official member of the team. The team never said anything officially about PCL. The Ravens have not changed their stance since July. Fans gives more weight from officials associated with the team than from a reporter. The Ravens have not acknowledge whether his tweet is true or not.  

 

 

Yes, but Harbaugh even said it was a sprain/strain. Does it really matter what kind of sprain it was?.  It takes 6-8 weeks to recover from one of these injuries and exactly 8 weeks after the injury occurred he was back on the practice field. 

 

I usually doubt a reporter when they say something like "according to my sources"  but most of the time they are correct.  And given the time frame of the injury, and the walking boot Perriman was wearing when Hensley reported the injury its hard to say he was wrong.  

[RavensFootballFan]

Yes, but Harbaugh even said it was a sprain/strain. Does it really matter what kind of sprain it was?.  It takes 6-8 weeks to recover from one of these injuries and exactly 8 weeks after the injury occurred he was back on the practice field. 

 

I usually doubt a reporter when they say something like "according to my sources"  but most of the time they are correct.  And given the time frame of the injury, and the walking boot Perriman was wearing when Hensley reported the injury its hard to say he was wrong.  

 

I am waiting for an updated official report from the Ravens. Only then will we know. Yes, I know it was exactly 8 weeks that he finally was on the field running but not knowing anything after the pre-game warm up and Perriman not even a limited participant in practice is what is concerning, could it have an inner bone bruise instead of an outer bone bruise? I also know that certain bone bruise can take from 6 months to up to a year to heal, most times much less than that. I may be ignorant on this issue but lacking knowledge and understanding based from what little we get from Ravens official report does not help me understand it better. 

[goldenboldin]

Neg me but you know its the truth...

The Ravens have not given Joe Flacco a young stable upper-tier WR since his arrival. What makes ANYONE think they'd do it now (i.e. go after Alshon Jeffrey)? I'm sorry I think it's a great move if the cap works and I'd love to see him here but don't see it happening. Then again, they know their own team better than I do and they get paid the big bucks to make big decisions

[rmcjacket23]

Actually that's where you're wrong, it's called PR. They absolutely care and as a matter of fact they make a lot decisions based upon the fan base and how we feel about things.

Umm no. They care about PR on issues that require PR. 

 

Giving fans daily updates about an injured player has absolutely nothing to do with Public Relations. Its why team websites rarely post the information online... its typically beat writers who attend practice and tweet or write about what players were "limited" (which nobody even knows what this means), and when they say something wrong or speculate about it, most teams completely ignore this and don't bother to correct them, because they simply don't care.

 

If NFL teams weren't required to divulge injury information to the NFL, there's a pretty good chance fans would know nothing about who's injured or who's not.

[rmcjacket23]

If they don't plan on resigning him in the offseason they are basically getting something for nothing.  You don't see it too much in football, but you will see a lot of baseball teams trade away players that they don't think they will resign.  Chicago needs to rebuild and if Jeffery isn't in their plans they might as well get something out of him by trading him away.   If they are going to trade him its going to come down to who is offering the best deal,

 

Personally, I can't see giving away two draft picks with 12 weeks left in a contract.  

1. Assumes they want to dump him, which there's really no indication from anybody other than pure guessing and speculation that's the case.

 

2. They will get a compensatory pick for him if he were to walk most likely, which given the contract amount, would probably be at the highest level, so they're still getting a draft pick for him.

[Ravensfolyfe]

It would be nice to have 2 solid starting receivers again.

[Hardhitters]

We could of had Steve Smith Sr. and Brandon Marshall, I would rather have Marshall doing Showtime on Tuesdays than Perriman riding then injury bench, man I just see Perriman finally playing then going back out injured. I hope he isn't the offensive Sergio Kindle.

[RavensFootballFan]

LOL, I suggest you check some of the other forum topics. You'll find more than one right now where fans are bashing Eugene Monroe for not toughing it out and sitting out a third straight week with a concussion, because they've seen people come back from concussions the next week.

 

That's the mindset. 

 

You know what I meant. Fans "let it go" far more than bashing players who are hurt. Monroe has missed other games from knee/ankle injuries and the extension he got has fans wanting more from him is all, thus, one of my points "how often a players is hurt"

[Cuse92]

I said this the other day on a forum here, so I'll trot it out again. If the Ravens are going to deal for anybody, I'd just as soon they send a 5th rounder to Miami for Kenny Stills. He's got way more to prove than Jeffrey,who will already command big bucks in FA based on his past success. And Stills is also finishing out his rookie deal, is not being used by his current employer the way he should be, and the Blackbirds have already sent a draft pick to Miami for a DB who's yet to see the field. It makes too much sense and yet, I'm sure we'll be forced to watch Aiken and Marlon Brown in perpetuity.

[RavensBlood2Bone5220]

I don't agree with the story that Flacco has to deliver late. Joe has put us in the position to win all three games this season. Broncos defense made a great play to get the ball from Gillmore, the defense gave up the game winning drive to the Raiders (bad coverage and penalties; I'm talking to you Jernnigan.), and the defense came up small again against A.J. Green plus Joe made the fourth down throw to Steve Smith which would have kept the final drive alive. Of course it was nullified by KO's face mask penalty. I just don't understand why Flacco gets so much hate thrown on him by these so called "experts" and reporters. I'm not saying he's flawless this season but I believe Joe has put us in position to win these first three games. The whole burden of this 0-3 start should not be put all on Flacco's shoulders.