Could the Ravens be considering a trade for (insert WR here)?

[January J]

I'd take Golden Tate over anyone the Ravens have had at their ages. If the Ravens had Steve Smith in his prime or Boldin in his prime, it'd be different, but a 27 year old Golden Tate would very likely be the best.

idk still would probablllly have to disagree, I mean I'd def give you ONE OF the best, obviously considering we only have had about a handful of really talented receivers.

[redlobster]

How about Marqise Lee?? He is falling out of favor due to various reasons. Mostly the other young WRs have better chemistry with Bortles and minor Injuries. The jags are high on rookie Greene as well. They could trade Marqise for a 3. Word has it his chemistry has not grown with Bortles as fast as the other WRs and he is so fast in his breaks Bortles has had problems timing him. But elite talent remains. Oz has to give up significant compensation for a quality WR at some point. His raw talent is comparable to Odell Beckham. Golden Gate does not compare. Lee has legit #1 WR talent

 

Marquise Lee for a 3rd is a good deal? The guy who cant stay healthy?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Here's the issue with your line of thinking. You're going purely off of stats, which is obviously a very flawed way of thinking.

 

As you pointed out, Golden Tate was almost always the number one for the teams he played for, especially starting in 2012. However, in 2010 he played with Matt Hasselback, 2011 Tavaris Jackson, and 2012-2013 Russell Wilson. Tell me which one of those guys is a high volume passer. I'm dying to hear that argument. 

 

Since Russell Wilson became the starter in Seattle, in a full season, the Seahawks literally ran the ball more per game on average than they did pass it. You really think wide receivers are going to be putting up high volume stats? Pfft, yeah, go ahead, make an argument for that, too. 

 

Tate was the number one, but he was never even targeted 100 times. In fact, his average targets before 2014 were 62 per season, and that's with 99 in 2013. Before 2013, the most he had was 68. Know how many times Torrey had less than 90 targets in Baltimore? Zero. Know how many times he went for over 100? Twice, including almost 140 (138 in 2013). Know how much of a difference targets make for a receiver? Look no further than 2014 when Tate was targeted over 140 times. 

You all are looking at purely stats and calling it an anomaly, but if you watched Tate play (guessing you did not), you'd see this is much of the same from 2012 and 2013 Seattle Tate. 

 

But let's go back to the stats. He was catching about 65% of his passes thrown his way in 2012 and 2013, then that continued into 2014, but he received more opportunities. His yards per catch actually went down from 2012 to 2014, but he put up more yardage as he was used in a fuller role and subsequently put up better stats for his offense. 

 

Know how many receivers have put up 1,000 yards in Seattle since 2010, when Tate came into the league? Zero. Know how many receivers have put up 1,000 yards since 2007, the year Megatron came into the league, other than Megatron? Zero. Know why? Because Megatron (almost) literally eats targets for breakfast. So was it really a shock that without Megatron that Tate played well in a heavier pass offense in Detroit? Nope. In fact, with CJ limited or out, Tate put up four 100+ yard games, including three over 130 and two over 150, in five weeks (weeks four through eight). Some of Tate's worst games? Calvin Johnson's best.

 

But in 2014, again, it was much of the same. He put up a respectable YPC (a little over 13, averaging about 14 for his career) and was again catching about 65% of his catches. Again, it was a larger opportunity for him, probably a huge reason he went to Detroit. 

 

Now that we're done with that stats that you so carelessly tossed around, let's talk about the on the field, which I'm guessing you probably didn't watch much of. Tate, coming into the league, was pretty much a "speedster". He didn't have great long speed, but respectable. I guess that's where you get the idea of him being like Torrey, but his speed was not as good as Torrey's and his hands were significantly better. However, from 2011 on, Tate began to become a fuller route runner. 2011 would classify him mostly as a deep threat, but if you watched him in 2012, he starts to develop a better route tree. He had a tendency to round off some of the more intermediate routes, but in 2013, he became much sharper. In 2014, we start to see those same route running developments continue and we begin to see a lot more subtle body movements to sell his routes. Because he didn't have overly impressive speed, he couldn't just run by defenders, so he had to use body fakes and subtle movement to set up defenders, which he did marvelously. 

Off the line, he has extremely impressive agility, excellent breaks in and out of routes that continues to get better, and has worked so hard to improve his release from press coverage. His footwork is night and day from when he came into the league. 

 

His hands are also extremely impressive and it's a huge disservice to compare them to Torrey's. He dropped six passes in 140+ targets last year, so he's dropping about 4% of his targets. That's hugely impressive. He's also far better at actually tracking deep balls.

I haven't gotten to watch the Lions as much this season because NFL Sunday Ticket on my laptop isn't always available with two brothers that like football, but I can tell you we are seeing much of the same this season, but you're looking purely at stats and it's leading you way too far from the truth. 

 

Make no mistake, he'd be the best receiver the Ravens have ever had.

Cannot comment attitude wise, but skill wise, he's there.

 

And are the Ravens a high volume passing team? No.

So how is it off base to compare him to Torrey, who's played in a similar offense his whole career, was never the #1 except 2013, and was still able to put up almost identical stats, WITHOUT the luxury of a  year within a high volume passing offense?

 

Go ahead - answer that one.

 

And why would I expect him to come into, yet again, not a high volume passing offense and perform like he did in one? Go ahead answer that one.

 

Wouldnt it make more sense, that in a run heavy offense, you'd expect more of how he performed.... wait for it.... when he was in a run heavy offense? 

 

And, I didnt saw he was "like" Torrey... I said production was similar, but they achieve that production in different way. In fact, I said specifically Tate would do what Steve Smith does for us, just not quite as well.

 

You get all sarcastic and run your mouth but dont even read. 

Edited October 8, 2015 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[balfan23]

Matthews is not worth much more then a 7th round pick to us and Grimes has a huge contract on top of being a pro bowl player last year.  We could not afford Grimes and he would be worth atleast a 2nd round pick for how well he has played the last few years.  We may make another trade or we might not, but we should all temper our expectations because I doubt it will be any big name guys.  We only have roughly 1.5 million in cap space left!

True - but then that is the level of player we can afford right now. People talking about us bringing in Alshon are in fantasy mode. As far as Grimes goes, yeah - I never considered that a reasonable suggestion. 

[BmoreBird22]

And are the Ravens a high volume passing team? No.

So how is it off base to compare him to Torrey, who's played in a similar offense his whole career, was never the #1 except 2013, and was still able to put up almost identical stats, WITHOUT the luxury of a year within a high volume passing offense?

Go ahead - answer that one.

And why would I expect him to come into, yet again, not a high volume passing offense and perform like he did in one? Go ahead answer that one.

Wouldnt it make more sense, that in a run heavy offense, you'd expect more of how he performed.... wait for it.... when he was in a run heavy offense?

And, I didnt saw he was "like" Torrey... I said production was similar, but they achieve that production in different way. In fact, I said specifically Tate would do what Steve Smith does for us, just not quite as well.

You get all sarcastic and run your mouth but dont even read.

the Ravens aren't a high volume passing game? Hmmm. Interesting the Joe has 154 passing attempts in four games and hasn't had less than 500 passing attempts since 2010, but they aren't a high volume passing team. Joe had less passing attempts than Russell Wilson once- 2008. Wilson's most passing attempts came in 2011, but dropped off by 50 in 2012, Tare's best season there ironically.

And no, I didn't get sarcastic. I pointed out you had very flawed logic and pointed out where you were wrong, like I did above.

Sorry I misread one small tidbit of information that was also false and misconstrued it a little when explaining the overall skillet that Tate would bring to the Ravens.

He would produce far more than Torrey in a far more useful way.

And again, Torrey never had less than 90 targets and went over 100 twice, something Tate never did in Seattle. It is totally unfair to compare their production. The only time Tate went over 90, he produced better numbers than Torrey.

Edited October 8, 2015 by BmoreBird22

[JoeyFlex5]

How about Marqise Lee?? He is falling out of favor due to various reasons. Mostly the other young WRs have better chemistry with Bortles and minor Injuries. The jags are high on rookie Greene as well. They could trade Marqise for a 3. Word has it his chemistry has not grown with Bortles as fast as the other WRs and he is so fast in his breaks Bortles has had problems timing him. But elite talent remains. Oz has to give up significant compensation for a quality WR at some point. His raw talent is comparable to Odell Beckham. Golden Gate does not compare. Lee has legit #1 WR talent

ehh, i love marqise lee, loved him in college, wanted him on the ravens, BUT, you seem like you may be overrating him a tad bit. he is in no way on odb's level, and with his nagging injuries im not sure i would trade a 3 for him, especially considering that our draft pick may be a little higher than usual next year. 

 

i would give a 4th for him in a heartbeat, but not a 3rd. 

 

also has anyone put any thought into us having a potentially high draft pick next year, making ozzie hold back on trades? maybe he sees a top 15 pick in the future for us and doesnt pull the trigger because he knows we have better value with a top 15 pick in the first 3 rounds than what we can find on the market?

[JoeyFlex5]

If I'm remembering correctly, it's been a lot of hamstring and ankle injuries. It seems like a lot of aggravating the same body part. Camp just seems to injure everything. 

his latest injury report says "broken body"

[Bent_Wookie]

When is the deadline again, late October?

I feel like we're wait and see. If we win this next game, maybe we're more eager to trade. If we win the next two and are 3-3 before the deadline, maybe we make a deal. (Arizona Monday night will be tough...) maybe the rest of the AFC standings impact are willingness to make moves/the nfl's standings impacting what other teams will do.

We covet our picks, even if we pick 32nd in the first, we don't piss away our picks for an aging short therm solution. It's what makes our team (and front office) awesome year in and year out. Pulling the trigger on a roddy white and then we finish (4-12) would be a fail, IMO...unless it was for a fair deal (6th?) opportunity cost!

[Winchester]

ehh, i love marqise lee, loved him in college, wanted him on the ravens, BUT, you seem like you may be overrating him a tad bit. he is in no way on odb's level, and with his nagging injuries im not sure i would trade a 3 for him, especially considering that our draft pick may be a little higher than usual next year. 

 

i would give a 4th for him in a heartbeat, but not a 3rd. 

 

also has anyone put any thought into us having a potentially high draft pick next year, making ozzie hold back on trades? maybe he sees a top 15 pick in the future for us and doesnt pull the trigger because he knows we have better value with a top 15 pick in the first 3 rounds than what we can find on the market?

I get what you are saying flex. But we need a longterm talented WR to grow to our #1. Odds are stacked against us finding a talent like marqise Lee in round2 much less 3-4!! Watch his highlights his practices. He is phenomenal!! He is as quick in his breaks as a young Chad Johnson and he makes contested catches in traffic like Boldin. He is every ounce the athlete Beckham is. Before a freshman qb and minor injuries he was a top10 draft pick. He is far more polished and accomplished route runner than perriman. He and perriman could give Joe a dynamic tandem for years to come!!

[Purple Punishment]

I get what you are saying flex. But we need a longterm talented WR to grow to our #1. Odds are stacked against us finding a talent like marqise Lee in round2 much less 3-4!! Watch his highlights his practices. He is phenomenal!! He is as quick in his breaks as a young Chad Johnson and he makes contested catches in traffic like Boldin. He is every ounce the athlete Beckham is. Before a freshman qb and minor injuries he was a top10 draft pick. He is far more polished and accomplished route runner than perriman. He and perriman could give Joe a dynamic tandem for years to come!!

I thought I read that his transition to the NFL hasn't been a good one

[allblackraven]

When is the deadline again, late October?

 

November 3rd, 4PM Eastern.

[gtalk12]

I'm just hope that no matter what we decide to do that Perriman comes back and gives us a monster contribution

[Static]

I'm just hope that no matter what we decide to do that Perriman comes back and gives us a monster contribution

Perriman is Still raw don't expect Odell Beckham.

[gtalk12]

Perriman is Still raw don't expect Odell Beckham.

 

 

I don't expect him to be Odell, I expect the best Perriman can give. I just hope it's explosive enough to be considered the #1 receiver we drafted him to be

[Static]

I don't expect him to be Odell, I expect the best Perriman can give. I just hope it's explosive enough to be considered the #1 receiver we drafted him to be

He is obv our #1 because the rest of our recievers are undrafteds and day 3s.

But will he be able to get open against #1s on non go routes? And even then does he play up to his speed?

we don't know.

[Drew P]

Marquise Lee for a 3rd is a good deal? The guy who cant stay healthy?

 

Damn, we could just use JAX as our farm team

[-Truth-]

I personally wouldn't even consider giving up a 3rd for Marqise Lee. I initially loved him on tape, but once I started digging into the tape of his senior season, even with the injuries accounted for, I thought the struggles came in areas that shouldn't have been affected. I thought he routinely struggled in high pointing the ball and/or coming down with it in traffic. That being said, the upside is there and I do feel like he could become a viable weapon. But I didn't see enough in the first season to give me full confidence that he'll develop into a No.1 WR. Truth be told, I would be hesitant to give up a 4th, especially since the Jaguars could very likely be pursued to give him up for less.

Edited October 8, 2015 by -Truth-

[RaineV1]

Damn, we could just use JAX as our farm team

That spot is already taken by the Texans.

[Winchester]

I thought I read that his transition to the NFL hasn't been a good one

His chemistry and transition to the jags and bortles has not been a good one. lol, A ridiculously talented WR!! Watch his practices, his breaks are instantaneous and he has rubber ankles. He has good hands, great athleticism and leaping skills and an extra gear when he needs it. And most of all he will catch in traffic. He only needs an offense and a good qb. He will not be the first great WR that needed a decent team and a better qb. For a 3 he could be the steal of this decade.

[Winchester]

I think Marqise's play speed is far more functional than Perrimans. I would like Perriman to watch Lee and learn route running. And see how to build functional route running playspeed. And learn how to put his 4.2 speed to the Pavement. Perriman and Lee could be an unstoppable dynamic duo for years. Then maxx build an NFL body like he acknowledges he is making a priority and he will be faster and stronger and the Raven offense could be that juggernaut they dreamed. Have to get Monroe healthy as well and by playoff time the offense should be done spinni g its wheels and burning out. And coasting effortlessly.

[rmw10]

I personally wouldn't even consider giving up a 3rd for Marqise Lee. I initially loved him on tape, but once I started digging into the tape of his senior season, even with the injuries accounted for, I thought the struggles came in areas that shouldn't have been affected. I thought he routinely struggled in high pointing the ball and/or coming down with it in traffic. That being said, the upside is there and I do feel like he could become a viable weapon. But I didn't see enough in the first season to give me full confidence that he'll develop into a No.1 WR. Truth be told, I would be hesitant to give up a 4th, especially since the Jaguars could very likely be pursued to give him up for less.

I was a fan of Lee, but with what he's showed so far and how much he struggled, I wouldn't say he's worth more than a late rounder. He's still got some skill but it's not going to show if he can't stay on the field.

[GrimCoconut]

I personally wouldn't even consider giving up a 3rd for Marqise Lee. I initially loved him on tape, but once I started digging into the tape of his senior season, even with the injuries accounted for, I thought the struggles came in areas that shouldn't have been affected. I thought he routinely struggled in high pointing the ball and/or coming down with it in traffic. That being said, the upside is there and I do feel like he could become a viable weapon. But I didn't see enough in the first season to give me full confidence that he'll develop into a No.1 WR. Truth be told, I would be hesitant to give up a 4th, especially since the Jaguars could very likely be pursued to give him up for less.

NFL draft picks are like cars: they depreciate in value once selected unless they are very very special.

[1/28/01]

Some of this wouldn't have happened unless something else did (i.e. trading for Givens if Camp and Sr were healthy), but just for fun imagine:

* Perriman doesn't get hurt and builds even a sliver of chemistry with Joe.

* Sr continues catching (almost) everything thrown his way and producing some of the best run after catch stuff you'll ever see.

* Gilmore continues to show steady improvement, all while getting a seemingly healthy Pitta back.

* Monroe doesn't get concussed and Wagner plays like Wagner played last year.

* Givens produces like he did in 2012/13.

* Forsett runs behind a confident line and produces like last year.

* Camp plays healthy and hard.

Okay, Im done. Getting a midday drink!

[CalvinSmoke]

NFL draft picks are like cars: they depreciate in value once selected unless they are very very special.

unless it's Trent Richardson

[ravensdan]

I personally wouldn't even consider giving up a 3rd for Marqise Lee. I initially loved him on tape, but once I started digging into the tape of his senior season, even with the injuries accounted for, I thought the struggles came in areas that shouldn't have been affected. I thought he routinely struggled in high pointing the ball and/or coming down with it in traffic. That being said, the upside is there and I do feel like he could become a viable weapon. But I didn't see enough in the first season to give me full confidence that he'll develop into a No.1 WR. Truth be told, I would be hesitant to give up a 4th, especially since the Jaguars could very likely be pursued to give him up for less.

Yeah lee is the third best receiver inJackOncille. He's in no shape or form any type of number one plus he has not stayed healthy.

[ravenz2752]

Arthur Brown for Marquis Lee?

[JoeyFlex5]

Arthur Brown for Marquis Lee?

wishful thinking. 

 

brown and a 6th would be nice though. idk how their LB situation is but i know they run a 3-4 so i doubt theyre looking for arthur brown

[Inqui]

wishful thinking. 

 

brown and a 6th would be nice though. idk how their LB situation is but i know they run a 3-4 so i doubt theyre looking for arthur brown

I could have sworn they ran a 4-3. Did they change this year or something?

[jazz1988]

I could have sworn they ran a 4-3. Did they change this year or something?

 

No  they still 4-3 defense  for sure.

[Winchester]

NFL draft picks are like cars: they depreciate in value once selected unless they are very very special.

And that is a good thing. What are the odds of landing a WR the talent of marqise in round3 much less 4.