2016 DB Prospect Thread

[JoeKnows]

Jalen Ramsey. We need to get this physicality and nastiness back to our defense.

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CRjMAUlXAAAZUs8.mp4

 

https://twitter.com/FSUeyedoc/status/655428167692374016

Edited October 20, 2015 by JoeKnows

[Cillmatic]

Jalen Ramsey. We need to get this physicality and nastiness back to our defense.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CRjMAUlXAAAZUs8.mp4

https://twitter.com/FSUeyedoc/status/655428167692374016

Join the club.

[GrimCoconut]

I'd rather play Ramsey at corner tbh, and I think comparing Hargreaves to Revis might be a little too much.

I said he's the best I've seen since Revis. That means I think he is a better prospect than Patrick Peterson, Jimmy Smith (who I loved coming out of Colorado and he was my guy that year), Sherman, and others. That's no slight on those guys, it's just that I think he's more talented and polished coming out since Revis. Nothing comparable outside of that. Try not to read into things too much.

[GrimCoconut]

I recently had the chance to look up potential top 10 picks for the upcoming draft as well as a few mock drafts. I see a lot of people bring up Joey Bosa (DE), Vernon Hargreaves III (CB), Jalen Ramsey (DB/CB), Lenoard Floyd (OLB/DE) and Robert Nkempdiche (DT). In my opinon, its way too early to determine our draft pick and potential player. If I had to choose, Id go with Jalen Ramsey or Leonard Floyd. Ramsey can play both CB and Safety. His size is also a plus at 6'1/6'2. Hargreaves may be the better corner but his lack of size (5'10/5'11) is not ideal for a top 10 pick in my opinion. He reminds me of Webb and Elam who was also from Florida. Joey Bosa is a beast and reminds me of JJ Watt but Im pretty sure he'll be long gone before we pick. Nkemdiche looks just as good as Bosa in my opinion and I'd pick him over Bosa. Floyd, however, can play both DE and OLB and is more logical to go to us in a late top 10 pick. He is a pure pass rusher at 6'4. He is a little slim but he is quick, and lengthy. Imagine when he puts on some NFL OLB weight. Remind you of someone? (Suggs). The combine will tell us more than a visual analysis. Go Ravens! 

Suggs was different. Suggs weighed 250ish pounds when he left Arizona State. Floyd has a listed weight of 231. That's a huge difference from Suggs in college to Floyd. Floyd is supposedly 6-4, and Suggs is 6-3, which means the lighter weight is even more concerning, although I'm not sure I buy into the idea that he's 6-4, but whatever. 

 

Suggs currently weighs 265, supposedly. That's a pretty big difference between the two. You're asking him to put on 30 pounds or so. And then you talk about Hargreaves and remark how he is small and Ramsey is big. Lol, I just find that a bit ironic considering Floyd is also remarkably small, but Hargreaves at least has some muscle mass. This is coming from a guy who is concerned about Hargreaves' weight. 

[GrimCoconut]

chalk it up to personal preference. i wouldnt be upset either way, as i think very highly of hargreavs as well, but iprefer ramsey personally. i think he has a bigger potential to be a true splash player, and also i love his mean streak, hes just the kind of player i see turning our defense around and helping bring back the culture of toughness and playmaking on defense.

I wouldn't be upset either way. I'll be thrilled with either player. We need both--a legitimate FS that can actually get turnovers for this pathetic defense and scare QBs from throwing in his area, to get guys lined-up on the back-end and get communication down, and we need a guy who can put some fire into this defense. They're very spineless lately. 

[Maryland]

I'd rather play Ramsey at corner tbh, and I think comparing Hargreaves to Revis might be a little too much.

Hargreaves is definitely not Revis.

 

Revis presses and gets away with holding on like every play, whereas Hargreaves is better at playing off, recovering quickly, and breaking for the ball when targeted (he can play close and press, but he's obviously not going to jam and misdirect a much bigger WR at the line). Hargreaves is more like Grimes, who has been a top-5 CB for the past few years when healthy. 

 

Ironically, if we kept Pees, Hargreaves would be the perfect CB for him because he is best playing off. And pairing him with Jimmy would form a great duo because Jimmy is made to cover bigger WRs while Hargreaves is perfect against quick WRs like Antonio Brown.

[Cillmatic]

Hargreaves is definitely not Revis.

Revis presses and gets away with holding on like every play, whereas Hargreaves is better at playing off, recovering quickly, and breaking for the ball when targeted (he can play close and press, but he's obviously not going to jam and misdirect a much bigger WR at the line). Hargreaves is more like Grimes, who has been a top-5 CB for the past few years when healthy.

Ironically, if we kept Pees, Hargreaves would be the perfect CB for him because he is best playing off. And pairing him with Jimmy would form a great duo because Jimmy is made to cover bigger WRs while Hargreaves is perfect against quick WRs like Antonio Brown.

The events of the last 2 seasons have poisoned me to the sight of CB's playing off. Plus, he's not as fast as you'd like a small corner to be. Sticking with the Ram man.

[JoeyFlex5]

The events of the last 2 seasons have poisoned me to the sight of CB's playing off. Plus, he's not as fast as you'd like a small corner to be. Sticking with the Ram man.

hargreaves has some legit explosion to break on short routes and he has the awareness to do so as well, but i gotta agree with you on this, ramsey is simply a better pick for this team.

[martinman89]

Suggs was different. Suggs weighed 250ish pounds when he left Arizona State. Floyd has a listed weight of 231. That's a huge difference from Suggs in college to Floyd. Floyd is supposedly 6-4, and Suggs is 6-3, which means the lighter weight is even more concerning, although I'm not sure I buy into the idea that he's 6-4, but whatever. 

 

Suggs currently weighs 265, supposedly. That's a pretty big difference between the two. You're asking him to put on 30 pounds or so. And then you talk about Hargreaves and remark how he is small and Ramsey is big. Lol, I just find that a bit ironic considering Floyd is also remarkably small, but Hargreaves at least has some muscle mass. This is coming from a guy who is concerned about Hargreaves' weight. 

Ramsey is considerably bigger than Hargreaves. Plus, I didn't mention anything about weight so check yourself. Hargreaves will be dominated by the WRs in our division. Look what AJ Green and anyone over 6'2" has done to us over the past few seasons. Hargreaves will struggle more so than Jimmy Smith given his large size. Your crazy for thinking Ozzie will pick another DB that comes from the Gators. 

[JoeyFlex5]

Ramsey is considerably bigger than Hargreaves. Plus, I didn't mention anything about weight so check yourself. Hargreaves will be dominated by the WRs in our division. Look what AJ Green and anyone over 6'2" has done to us over the past few seasons. Hargreaves will struggle more so than Jimmy Smith given his large size. Your crazy for thinking Ozzie will pick another DB that comes from the Gators. 

lol you have 2 posts and are telling grim to check himself.. funny. 

 

anyways, you said hargreaves reminds you of webb and elam, then you said floyd reminds you of suggs, not only is that way off base, but you pretty much pointed out 2 ravens that play bad, and used that as your argument as to why you dont want hargreaves, and then pointed out a legendary raven and used that as an argument as to why you want floyd. lets break this down... 

 

if hargreaves is anything like webb, then he is like 2011 webb, the webb who was 5'10" but had the savvy and ridiculous ball skills to make great plays on the ball against WRs of any height, just because webb is playing bad now doesnt mean he wasnt once one of the top corners in the league. you wanna know some other shorter corners? darelle revis i believe is 5'11", brent grimes is 5'10", chris harris jr is 5'10", vontae davis is 5'11", thats 4 of the top 10 corners in the league. another thing, matt elam, a safety from florida, who had a laundry list of concerns with reckless play, has nothing to do with hargreaves, a corner from florida, who is lauded nationwide for his incredibly sound technique and burst. youre telling ozzie not to take hargreaves because elam was a bust, but then are pounding the table for leonard floyd when jarvis jones was a massive bust, it is quite literally the same thing, youre also pounding the table for jalen ramsey but by your logic we shouldnt because terrence brooks hasnt been great. think before you come to the forums and start arguments with respected posters man. 

 

also, terrell suggs was massive coming out of college, he was incredibly light on his feet for someone his size, his footwork was extremely nimble and he was good with his hands too, basically he was a very technically sound pass rusher and he defended the run as well, floyd is an undersized, explode off the snap and fly to the ball kind of guy, they are extremely different and while i like floyd, they are nowhere in the same stratosphere. floyd may never become more than a pure rusher like aldon smith, he will never be on the same level as suggs in terms of being a well rounded linebacker, he doesnt have the size for it nor will he ever be able to pack on 35+ lbs and still stay light on his feet. he is clumsier on his feet at 230 than suggs at 265, floyd could never be a terrell suggs. hes more like an anthony barr or aldon smith.

[Static]

Im a bit weary of VH3. I think his bowl game and combine will tell a lot.

I'm weary of Ramsey too. He seems to have started to play a bit lazy. Maybe because he's out of position or wants to be healthy.

[rmw10]

Ramsey is considerably bigger than Hargreaves. Plus, I didn't mention anything about weight so check yourself. Hargreaves will be dominated by the WRs in our division. Look what AJ Green and anyone over 6'2" has done to us over the past few seasons. Hargreaves will struggle more so than Jimmy Smith given his large size. Your crazy for thinking Ozzie will pick another DB that comes from the Gators. 

 

Vontae Davis and Darrelle Revis say hi, who are practically the same size.  You can make up for a lack of size with aggressiveness and great technique, which is conveniently what Hargreaves has as well.

[Cillmatic]

Ramsey is considerably bigger than Hargreaves. Plus, I didn't mention anything about weight so check yourself. Hargreaves will be dominated by the WRs in our division. Look what AJ Green and anyone over 6'2" has done to us over the past few seasons. Hargreaves will struggle more so than Jimmy Smith given his large size. Your crazy for thinking Ozzie will pick another DB that comes from the Gators.

I forgot all about Elam. Whoever thought THAT was a good idea needs to be shot. He's the worst draftee in our history. I remember watching him in college saying he would suck.

Ozzie Logic: let's draft a 5'9 strong safety with T-Rex arms, ZERO tackling skills and iffy coverage skills.

[allblackraven]

I really hate it when discussion about DBs turns into size argument. There's plenty of examples to counter that. I'm pretty sure we all, including Ravens FO and coaches would be content with signing either Ramsey or Hargreaves because both are really good players.

[rmw10]

I really hate it when discussion about DBs turns into size argument. There's plenty of examples to counter that. I'm pretty sure we all, including Ravens FO and coaches would be content with signing either Ramsey or Hargreaves because both are really good players.

 

Yep.  Just like the WR size argument.  Good players are good players no matter the size.

[Cillmatic]

I really hate it when discussion about DBs turns into size argument. There's plenty of examples to counter that. I'm pretty sure we all, including Ravens FO and coaches would be content with signing either Ramsey or Hargreaves because both are really good players.

Size is a VERY important factor in DB's. We wouldn't draft a 5'8 CB over a 6'0. DB's need to be able to physically match up or overpower WR's. Hargreaves just can't do that. Ramsey on the other hand... https://twitter.com/ngb_jd/status/655428420000698368 Edited October 21, 2015 by Cillmatic

[52520Andrew]

 

Should also mention Hargreaves and Revis are the same height at 5'11. I mean if they are the same exact player then I would take the taller guy obviously as it does help but there are plenty of exceptions to the rule. Personally I don't give a [profanity removed] about height, give me the best player.

[GrimCoconut]

Ramsey is considerably bigger than Hargreaves. Plus, I didn't mention anything about weight so check yourself. Hargreaves will be dominated by the WRs in our division. Look what AJ Green and anyone over 6'2" has done to us over the past few seasons. Hargreaves will struggle more so than Jimmy Smith given his large size. Your crazy for thinking Ozzie will pick another DB that comes from the Gators.

Why so hostile, man? I don't understand why you're saying I'm crazy or that I need to check myself. I don't think I was rude to you but if I was I wasn't intentionally trying to be.

Anyway, I guess I didn't interpret what you meant by being bigger, since being big isn't just about height but is also about weight. I don't have an issue with the team drafting Hargreaves even if he is small because he's really good.

As for whether I think we'd go back to Florida, why not? It's not like we should avoid a school because of one failed pick. That's just not prudent.

Edited October 21, 2015 by GrimCoconut

[JoeyFlex5]

Size is a VERY important factor in DB's. We wouldn't draft a 5'8 CB over a 6'0. DB's need to be able to physically match up or overpower WR's. Hargreaves just can't do that. Ramsey on the other hand... https://twitter.com/ngb_jd/status/655428420000698368

that video is gold. you know im on the ramsey bandwagon, but you seem way too harsh on hargreaves, 5'10" to 6' is the standard size for a corner, hip flexibility, arm length, stability of the ankles, general agility, ball awareness, vision, ability to turn the head while maintaining speed and ball skills, all of those are far more important than another 1 or 2 inches for a cb. obviously its nice having a 6'2" cb who can hem up an AJ green at the line and then turn his hips and run with an ODB or break on a curl route to antonio brown, but thats a rare breed, even sherman cant do all of that, the closest thing to that description is patrick peterson and hes a generational type of talent.

[ravefan52]

I forgot all about Elam. Whoever thought THAT was a good idea needs to be shot. He's the worst draftee in our history. I remember watching him in college saying he would suck.

Ozzie Logic: let's draft a 5'9 strong safety with T-Rex arms, ZERO tackling skills and iffy coverage skills.

You think they should be shot? Wow man I think you need to calm down. It's just a game.

[52520Andrew]

As for whether I think we'd go back to Florida, why not? It's not like we should avoid a school because of one failed pick. That's just not prudent.

Guess since Cody was a bust there is no way Marcell Dareus is any good.

[Cillmatic]

You think they should be shot? Wow man I think you need to calm down. It's just a game.

It's an intentional exaggeration. Semi-common phrase. Edited October 21, 2015 by Cillmatic

[Maryland]

The events of the last 2 seasons have poisoned me to the sight of CB's playing off. Plus, he's not as fast as you'd like a small corner to be. Sticking with the Ram man.

Hargreaves lacks top-end speed to stay with a burner like Mike Wallace, but that's not as important if he's got adequate safety help (which we don't have, and leads right into the Ramsey argument lol). Being quick is much more important than being fast, if that makes any sense. 

[GrimCoconut]

that video is gold. you know im on the ramsey bandwagon, but you seem way too harsh on hargreaves, 5'10" to 6' is the standard size for a corner, hip flexibility, arm length, stability of the ankles, general agility, ball awareness, vision, ability to turn the head while maintaining speed and ball skills, all of those are far more important than another 1 or 2 inches for a cb. obviously its nice having a 6'2" cb who can hem up an AJ green at the line and then turn his hips and run with an ODB or break on a curl route to antonio brown, but thats a rare breed, even sherman cant do all of that, the closest thing to that description is patrick peterson and hes a generational type of talent.

I don't think Peterson is that good. I honestly think he's overrated. Don't think that means I don't like him because I really like him a lot, but he's been inconsistent for the Cardinals during his career.

[GrimCoconut]

Guess since Cody was a bust there is no way Marcell Dareus is any good.

Trade that guy away for a bag of peanuts. He's worthless.

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't think Peterson is that good. I honestly think he's overrated. Don't think that means I don't like him because I really like him a lot, but he's been inconsistent for the Cardinals during his career.

the thing about peterson is he is so big and still an athletic freak, he doesnt have those coverage skills that the 5'10" guys seem to have but he makes up for it with size, strength, and explosiveness, and that sort of my point, clamoring for a 6'2" or taller cb by any means is kinda pointless because those guys typically arent as technically sound in coverage, and finding a guy who has the athleticism to take advantage of all that size and make up for that loss of technique is rare. theres a reason the best corners in the league are between 5'10" and 6', because those super tall guys can very rarely turn their hips and accelerate fast enough to react and run with the wr's, and even the most athletically gifted big guys are gonna be inconsistent because their bodies cant support the same shifty mechanics. so when im referring to peterson as a generational talent, im talking about his athleticism, because at his size he can turn and shift and run and jump very well, and though his mechanics fail him sometimes hes still elite, and finding a cb who can do that is very hard to do

[BSHU_Miami]

Definitely wanted Ramsey since last year and thought we had no chance to get him. He's meh at CB this year but I seen enough of him at FS to see he's the one for this team. Him, hill and no pees would be a great duo.

[Inqui]

Definitely wanted Ramsey since last year and thought we had no chance to get him. He's meh at CB this year but I seen enough of him at FS to see he's the one for this team. Him, hill and no pees would be a great duo.

Ramsey would be a huge difference maker in our secondary. He's one of those athletes that should be able to help mask our CB deficiencies by having a true centre-field guy.

[PurpleCity5]

I've watched Hargreaves and Ramsey extensively to say confidently that I would select Vernon Hargreaves over Jalen Ramsey. Hargreaves is so natural as a CB, it seems that he wanted to play CB the moment he got to the Football Field. I think he can come in and compete for a starting job, that's how good I think he is. Personally I feel that he's the best CB to enter the draft in a very long time. 

Yes, he doesn't have the best size but he surely plays bigger than what his size indicates. He shows the strength needed to jam receivers at the line and can play physical. He's also a daunting play-maker, he has troubles with missed tackles, no joke that needs to be fixed up. We already have problems with missed tackles. 

 

Other than that there's a lot to his game you got to love, he's so fluid, technique sound, physical, passionate, instinctive, and natural. He's just a guy that I think would help this team a lot. 

 

As far as Ramsey goes, I really like him a lot. I think he's def. one of the top prospects in this draft and has a chance to even get picked before Hargreaves, I just personally want to select the better player. I think in this case Vernon Hargreaves is a better player than Jalen Ramsey. Can you imagine Hargreaves and Jimmy together as a duo? Just unfair. Of course we need a FS, and regardless I think we get a new FS.

 

Yeah, I think I'm going to join the Vernon Hargreaves hype train, I think he's very legit. 

[Cillmatic]

^ injuried skinny 5'10 CB that lacks speed vs. Explosive lockdown CB AND safety?